Can I Practice After Picking Up?

[davep043]

I read the OP, essentially asking what the Rules allow him to do in a specific non-competitive round.  People who understand the Rules tell him what the Rules allow.  Others come along and say "Screw the rules, its not competition, do whatever you want".  C'mon, the guy asked about the Rules, this isn't the place to tell him to ignore the rules.  Sure, you can be a little less strict in casual play, but its a good thing to understand what the Rules actually require.  The OP may find himself in a Stableford or Maximum Hole Score format, and he should understand that he IS allowed to play out the hole.

8 hours ago, Nixhex524 said:

(or NTB if applicable)

When is Net Triple Bogey applicable?

[Krt22]

 

 

Nothing the OP is doing is outside of the rules. He hit two into a PA, taking a drop next to the PA, and then hitting an approach. If he doesn't want to chip or putt out, he is within the rules to pick up and move on and post NDB

 

Remember that picking up your ball is permitted by the USGA Handicap System
If not in an individual stroke play competition, it is generally OK to pick up your ball and move on to the next hole if you are “out” of a hole and want to maintain pace of play. This applies in match play and many forms of stroke play, including Stableford and best-ball play.

 

 

[Colin L]

4 hours ago, Wham49 said:

lol, so we should defer to you on all such matters in the future, 

 

and by the way when somebody is putting out for there 10 for a crisp 62 on the front becasue he "putts everything out" or goes back to the tee to reload instead of playing a "lateral local rule" becasue thats what the pros do, while people are piling up at the tee box, that has evrything to do wth the rules of golf getting in the way of a fun round. 

 

I am glad you play fast though, to each his own, whatever you want to play in your group as long as you keep pace is great, but why do you think that you can tell everybody how to play, as much as you think you know "what constitutes golf"  you do not. You only know what YOU think golf is. 

 

Oh and golf is a game not a sport, so your first sentence starts out as if you may not know what constitutes golf

Lat comment on this.  

• Playing by the rules is not deferring to me or anyone else; it is just  recognising that the way golf is played is defined by the rules. 
• It's quite possible to have the misfortune of clocking up a 10 with a minimum of time taken and with a conscious effort to catch up if there is  any lost time.
• Having to go back to the tee for stroke and distance is a very rare occurrence amongst players who use Rule 18.3a and habitually play a provisional ball. That is everything to do with using the rules to avoid wasting time and getting in the way of a fun round.
• I doubt if any of us regard three and a half hours as other than a reasonable pace.  It certainly isn't playing fast.
• I don't tell anyone what they have to do on a golf course; that is entirely up to them.  But I certainly can tell them what constitutes golf as that is laid down not by me but by the Rules of Golf.  I'm just one of many messengers who can advise golfers on what those Rules are.

If you want to play around with the words,  a game is a single golfing event. Alternatively, game is synonymous with sport.

 

I don't give two hoots what anyone wants to do on a golf course for their enjoyment and don't wish to spoil anyone's pleasure.  But let's not kid ourselves.  If you knowingly  bend, break or ignore the rules, you aren't playing golf as defined.

 

 

 

[LeoLeo99]

In my experience, there are a very small number of people that stink at golf and insist on playing by rules, strictly. They do delay things a bit, but it's rare they are the cause of slowdowns on the course.  

[LeoLeo99]

50 minutes ago, Colin L said:

 

 

I don't give two hoots what anyone wants to do on a golf course for their enjoyment and don't wish to spoil anyone's pleasure.  But let's not kid ourselves.  If you knowingly  bend, break or ignore the rules, you aren't playing golf as defined.

 

 

 

If you knowingly  bend, break or ignore the rules, you aren't playing golf as defined by the USGA/R&A.  People are entitled to define golf themselves and often do.

[bcjim]

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

It seems some of the posters are mixing up handicap rounds and casual rounds. The former means "go by the book" and the latter means "do what you do but do not hold up the group behind you".

Right, and my question is about the former so the suggestion someone made about dropping in the fairway seems like it would clearly be practicing.  But would dropping appropriately and hitting a shot or two (perhaps shots I wouldn't attempt in competition or shots not intended (or likely) to produce the lowest score) be considered "practicing"?

[Nixhex524]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

I read the OP, essentially asking what the Rules allow him to do in a specific non-competitive round.  People who understand the Rules tell him what the Rules allow.  Others come along and say "Screw the rules, its not competition, do whatever you want".  C'mon, the guy asked about the Rules, this isn't the place to tell him to ignore the rules.  Sure, you can be a little less strict in casual play, but its a good thing to understand what the Rules actually require.  The OP may find himself in a Stableford or Maximum Hole Score format, and he should understand that he IS allowed to play out the hole.

When is Net Triple Bogey applicable?

 

My understanding is that higher than a 10 cap can take triple, or a single digit when it is a stroke hole.  

[sui generis]

3 minutes ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

My understanding is that higher than a 10 cap can take triple, or a single digit when it is a stroke hole.  

 

Folks, don't take handicap rules advice from Mr Nix. He hasn't read that either. 🙄

[Nixhex524]

Just now, sui generis said:

 

Folks, don't take handicap rules advice from Mr Nix. He hasn't read that either. 🙄

 

Instead of taking weak shots, feel free to clarify.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Nixhex524

[sui generis]

Just now, Nixhex524 said:

 

Feel free to clarify, but that's how our club explained it to us.  I have been wrong once or twice, ask my wife.

 

It's buried in here:

 

https://www.usga.org/handicapping/roh/2020-rules-of-handicapping.html

 

Start with 3.1b. 🙂

[Nixhex524]

4 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

It's buried in here:

 

https://www.usga.org/handicapping/roh/2020-rules-of-handicapping.html

 

Start with 3.1b. 🙂

 

So no NTB it seems, I am wrong.  NDB only for anyone.  Our club had told us something different last year so I am glad to have this cleared up it seems.   Thanks for handling it with such class Sui!!!

[sui generis]

5 minutes ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

So no NTB it seems, I am wrong.  NDB only for anyone.  Our club had told us something different last year so I am glad to have this cleared up it seems.   Thanks for handling it with such class Sui!!!

 

Prior to 2020 it was different, (I don't keep up with how things used to be . . . keeping up with what we have to do today is my challenge.)

[Nixhex524]

Just now, sui generis said:

 

Prior to 2020 it was different, (I don't keep up with how things used to be . . . keeping up with what we have to do today is my challenge.)

 

Maybe I am not up to date then, or I was thinking gross triple on a stroke hole which seems to be what the rule is.   

 

I find it hard to believe that you have putted everything out in every round you've ever played.  It's fine, but this rule Nazi stuff get spoiled by hypocrisy far too often.  If you're in competition then I'm in full agreement... just think people need to relax a little.

[sui generis]

7 minutes ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

Maybe I am not up to date then, or I was thinking gross triple on a stroke hole which seems to be what the rule is.   

 

I find it hard to believe that you have putted everything out in every round you've ever played.  It's fine, but this rule Nazi stuff get spoiled by hypocrisy far too often.  If you're in competition then I'm in full agreement... just think people need to relax a little.

 

In individual stroke play, the player must hole out. In other forms of play, four-ball or match play, et al, when all players may not hole out, for handicapping purposes, there's a notion called Most Likely Score (MLS) not to exceed NDB for score posting.

Edited September 14, 2022 by sui generis

[QEight]

2 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

In individual stroke play, the player must hole out. In other forms of play, four-ball or match play, et al, when all players may not hole out, for handicapping purposes, there's a notion called Most Likely Score (MLS) not to exceed NDB for score posting.

 

And MLS is mostly (only?) USGA thing. So the rest of us just enter NDB.

[Mr. Bean]

9 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

I think you know this, but in the U.S. most 'casual round golf' is "handicap round golf".  dave

 

Indeed, and that makes the issue much more complicated. If people over there actually believe they can do whatever they like and still post the score it distorts their handicap indices in a big way.

[Mr. Bean]

6 hours ago, bcjim said:

Right, and my question is about the former so the suggestion someone made about dropping in the fairway seems like it would clearly be practicing.  But would dropping appropriately and hitting a shot or two (perhaps shots I wouldn't attempt in competition or shots not intended (or likely) to produce the lowest score) be considered "practicing"?

 

I may be wrong here but if you are just hitting a ball here and there without really trying to get closer to the hole then IMO you would be practicing. But if you try a shot that you would not use when playing safe and you hope to be successful with that shot it is not IMO practicing (even though that is exactly what you are doing...). 

 

If you use two different balls that is definitively practicing.

[Halebopp]

10 hours ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

I find it hard to believe that you have putted everything out in every round you've ever played.  It's fine, but this rule Nazi stuff get spoiled by hypocrisy far too often.  If you're in competition then I'm in full agreement... just think people need to relax a little.

 

The only people here telling others how they should spend their time on the course, or shaming others for what they do, are all of you telling others they shouldn't be playing by the rules or that they need to "relax". People are simply answering a question and sharing their knowledge for the benefit of everyone reading this (and other) threads.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Halebopp

[Mr. Bean]

12 hours ago, Wham49 said:

Oh and golf is a game not a sport, 

 

Try again, my friend:

 

List of sports

 

"Dictionary.com defines sport as "an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess". It goes on to specifically mention "racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, hunting and fishing" as sports."

Edited September 14, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[antip]

8 hours ago, bcjim said:

Right, and my question is about the former so the suggestion someone made about dropping in the fairway seems like it would clearly be practicing.  But would dropping appropriately and hitting a shot or two (perhaps shots I wouldn't attempt in competition or shots not intended (or likely) to produce the lowest score) be considered "practicing"?

This issue, like many, come down to integrity. The rule is clear, you may finish out (which also includes playing more strokes as though you intend to finish out even if you cease the process before finishing out) when the result of the hole is already decided and those strokes are not practice strokes. But if you do stuff that is not a continuation of the play - eg drop a ball somewhere completely different to practice some specific stroke - then you get the general penalty on the next hole. So I suggest there is no problem, for example, with playing a ball from where your ball went OOB - that is continuation without heading back to the place of the previous stroke. I also see no problem with an uncommon approach to playing out, for example, aiming into the big greenside bunker to then attempt an up and down from there (that was a very common Gary Player approach in tournament golf, so good was his bunker play) - but if you just head over to a fairway bunker and drop a ball there because you want to see if you can put your fairway wood on the green then you are practicing in breach of the rule. 

[Mr. Bean]

4 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

The only people here telling people how they should spend their time on the course, or trying to shame others for what they do, are all of you telling others they shouldn't be playing by the rules or that they need to "relax" just for answering a question presented here and sharing their knowledge for the benefit of everyone reading this (and other) threads.

 

Some 45 years ago in school I encountered a sentence in English that was far too complicated to understand with first reading. I counted the words and there were 64 of them, precisely the same number as in this Halebopp's post. I could not understand this sentence either without reading it three times 😆

[Halebopp]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Some 45 years ago in school I encountered a sentence in English that was far too complicated to understand with first reading. I counted the words and there were 64 of them, precisely the same number as in this Halebopp's post. I could not understand this sentence either without reading it three times 😆

 

Brevity has never been my forte.

[david.c.w]

3 hours ago, antip said:

This issue, like many, come down to integrity. The rule is clear, you may finish out (which also includes playing more strokes as though you intend to finish out even if you cease the process before finishing out) when the result of the hole is already decided and those strokes are not practice strokes. But if you do stuff that is not a continuation of the play - eg drop a ball somewhere completely different to practice some specific stroke - then you get the general penalty on the next hole. So I suggest there is no problem, for example, with playing a ball from where your ball went OOB - that is continuation without heading back to the place of the previous stroke. I also see no problem with an uncommon approach to playing out, for example, aiming into the big greenside bunker to then attempt an up and down from there (that was a very common Gary Player approach in tournament golf, so good was his bunker play) - but if you just head over to a fairway bunker and drop a ball there because you want to see if you can put your fairway wood on the green then you are practicing in breach of the rule. 

 

@antip summarizes well what what likely OP's main question.  

 

If I blow 2 OB and everyone is in the middle of the fairway, I might drop next to them and play in and then wipe my 2 footer away.  In a stroke play event I made a bad drop then played from a wrong place and then did not hole out, resulting in a 19 on the hole or an official DQ or whatever.  As long as all those penalty strokes are attributed to that hole only, NDB is still NDB and my handicap post is valid.  Playing in is not practicing, just playing.  

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, Halebopp said:

 

Brevity has never been my forte.

 Do not worry, antip beat you with 21 words (total of 85) 🤣

[DaveLeeNC]

2 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Some 45 years ago in school I encountered a sentence in English that was far too complicated to understand with first reading. I counted the words and there were 64 of them, precisely the same number as in this Halebopp's post. I could not understand this sentence either without reading it three times 😆

 

I was taking some kind of reading test in HS once (SAT or something like that). I got really irritated at how poorly this couple of paragraphs on Greecian Urns (literally) was constructed WRT communicating information. I counted 257 words in one sentence (where a sentence is defined as the words between two consecutive periods). 

 

dave

[Mr. Bean]

8 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

I was taking some kind of reading test in HS once (SAT or something like that). I got really irritated at how poorly this couple of paragraphs on Greecian Urns (literally) was constructed WRT communicating information. I counted 257 words in one sentence (where a sentence is defined as the words between two consecutive periods). 

 

dave

 

Sounds like the people having drafted the text should have taken the test first...

[Nixhex524]

7 hours ago, Halebopp said:

 

The only people here telling others how they should spend their time on the course, or shaming others for what they do, are all of you telling others they shouldn't be playing by the rules or that they need to "relax". People are simply answering a question and sharing their knowledge for the benefit of everyone reading this (and other) threads.

 

Never said "they shouldn't be playing by the rules".  I don't believe it should be a free for all out there but the rules can be confusing and I don't begrudge anyone for playing the game how they want to in a casual round.  I'd say that's the opposite of "shaming" but you may have your own definition.  I believe most golfers try and abide by the rules but how many know the book front to back?  Tour pros still get it wrong out there so yeah, I have a little issue with those sitting behind a computer with the rule book ready at the click of a mouse acting like their rounds are flawlessly played by the book.  Telling others they "aren't playing golf" because it isn't to the exact spec of the rules is more of an attempt to shame IMO, but that's just me.  Knowledge is always welcome.... being an uptight know-it-all, not so much.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

Never said "they shouldn't be playing by the rules".  I don't believe it should be a free for all out there but the rules can be confusing and I don't begrudge anyone for playing the game how they want to in a casual round. 

 

Do not forget that your casual rounds are postable rounds and MUST be played by the Rules.

[Nixhex524]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Do not forget that your casual rounds are postable rounds and MUST be played by the Rules.

 

I am fully aware, which is why I do my best to make sure what I am doing is by the rules I know....  I can't claim to know the book front to back, so I have no issue deferring to my playing partners... 

 

So are you also saying you've never picked up a questionable putt, or taken a questionable drop?  I think most do the best they can but it is ALWAYS within the rules?

[Halebopp]

30 minutes ago, Nixhex524 said:

 

Never said "they shouldn't be playing by the rules".  I don't believe it should be a free for all out there but the rules can be confusing and I don't begrudge anyone for playing the game how they want to in a casual round.  I'd say that's the opposite of "shaming" but you may have your own definition.  I believe most golfers try and abide by the rules but how many know the book front to back?  Tour pros still get it wrong out there so yeah, I have a little issue with those sitting behind a computer with the rule book ready at the click of a mouse acting like their rounds are flawlessly played by the book.  Telling others they "aren't playing golf" because it isn't to the exact spec of the rules is more of an attempt to shame IMO, but that's just me.  Knowledge is always welcome.... being an uptight know-it-all, not so much.

 

14 hours ago, Nixhex524 said:

It's fine, but this rule Nazi stuff get spoiled by hypocrisy far too often.  If you're in competition then I'm in full agreement... just think people need to relax a little.

 

There are several comments essentially saying "who cares", you think there's rule nazism and then suggest others should relax. You're also trying to put words into other people's mouths about how they might or might not play the game and build straw man arguments. And, after also belittling the person asking the question by essentially saying the person shouldn't care, you're now trying to say you aren't attacking those who provide rules assistance to quering minds.