Man, I am still flipping, but less... (Video)

[Mr_Wolfe]

9 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

This is the area that would be considered abnormal:



Your left thumb is very very "short" likely due to how/where you're gripping with your top hand. A pretty standard starting point has your right middle finger on your left thumb knuckle and your right ring finger on the side of the thumb tip, like we with Tiger's grip:



Many pros actually go much further than this as well, guys like DJ/Morikawa/Spieth/Simpson and others with left thumbs visible in the "V" of their right hand:



There are more extreme though and absolutely not a recommended starting point.

That "V" your right hand forms is a little strange as well in that your thumb is quite off the grip. The connection between your right thumb and forefinger is an important point of strength in the grip and your setup looks like it weakens that. Make sure that you're holding the club with those two fingers in such a way that you can support and even lightly swing it with just that connection.

 

Thanks for the info. I feel I am doing everything correctly, but my fingers are VERY short (and thick). I am using Ben Hogan's book for my grip as reference. Here is another picture showing how short my fingers are. I am wondering if I should do a double interlock to remove some of my right hand's influence?

 

Mr. Wolfe

[glk]

From the face on you dont want to see anything of your  left thumb.   Your right hand is a bit too low.    Want hands to fit snugly togethe - so they work better as a unit.  Want to apply pressure from the right thumb pad onto the entire left thumb.
 

 

 

like this

[Mr_Wolfe]

12 minutes ago, glk said:

From the face on you dont want to see anything of your  left thumb.   Your right hand is a bit too low.    Want hands to fit snugly togethe - so they work better as a unit.  Want to apply pressure from the right thumb pad onto the entire left thumb.
 

 

 

like this

 

 

For some reason, no matter how hard I try to do this, it doesn't work. 😞

 

However, I may try a double interlock like Furyk as I feel my hands would work better as a unit and let my lead hand dominate more. Here is a picture of me doing my standard interlock (top) and trying to cover up my thumb. The below picture is me trying a double interlock. From the picture alone, I feel it looks more correct.

 

Please ignore my painting outfit I have on...

 

Mr. Wolfe

Edited December 5, 2022 by Mr_Wolfe

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, Mr_Wolfe said:

 

Thanks for the info. I feel I am doing everything correctly, but my fingers are VERY short (and thick). I am using Ben Hogan's book for my grip as reference. Here is another picture showing how short my fingers are. I am wondering if I should do a double interlock to remove some of my right hand's influence?

 

Mr. Wolfe

Yes that looks more neutral in terms of thumb placement. Smaller hands will mean you positioning will be different as someone like Justin Thomas is similar to this, but regarding your next post:



This looks like you're having a problem because the club is sitting in the wrong top hand position. It looks like the shaft is running up the center of your hand with your left index finger running more down the shaft than around it. My concern would be that the double overlap style grip is just allowing you to get away with this. Your positioning should start more in the fingers:

[Mr_Wolfe]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

Yes that looks more neutral in terms of thumb placement. Smaller hands will mean you positioning will be different as someone like Justin Thomas is similar to this, but regarding your next post:



This looks like you're having a problem because the club is sitting in the wrong top hand position. It looks like the shaft is running up the center of your hand with your left index finger running more down the shaft than around it. My concern would be that the double overlap style grip is just allowing you to get away with this. Your positioning should start more in the fingers:

Yes, that is exactly the same as Ben Hogans book shows. That is how I am doing it. The issue (I think) is, if I bring my right hand up closer to my lead hand (covering thumb), my fingers are not long enough to hold onto the club. I think my fingers and palms are too thick.  Does that make sense?

 

Mr. Wolfe

[Mr_Wolfe]

This is the easiest way to explain it. If you reference the picture below again, if I move my right hand up the grip to cover my left thumb, my 2 middle fingers in the right hand are no longer long enough to grip the club. There is no way I could swing the club. The grip is in my fingers also.

 

Just to add, I am using undersized grips as well.

 

Mr. Wolfe

Edited December 5, 2022 by Mr_Wolfe

[KMeloney]

I'm interested in seeing a side, from-the-right view of just your left hand on the grip. I agree that something doesn't look right there, for starters -- and then the placement of your right thumb on the clubs (actually, it's not really) and the gap between it and your right index fingers makes things look more "off."

[CSagan]

I saw a video of scottie scheffler and he keeps a 7 iron with a training grip on it to hit balls with all the time...helps him keep his grip in check. I bought one of these below and use it a lot...the grip is a hair small for me but might be perfect for you.

 

https://www.amazon.com/SKLZ-Tempo-Grip-Golf-Trainer/dp/B0019GKDTM/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1X4FRL3EDIFFI&keywords=sklz+grip+trainer+golf&qid=1670257450&sprefix=skilz+grip+trainer+gol%2Caps%2C240&sr=8-6

 

 

 

 

[Mr_Wolfe]

1 hour ago, KMeloney said:

I'm interested in seeing a side, from-the-right view of just your left hand on the grip. I agree that something doesn't look right there, for starters -- and then the placement of your right thumb on the clubs (actually, it's not really) and the gap between it and your right index fingers makes things look more "off."

 

Here you go. Also, if I slide my right hand up to cover my left thumb, my right thumb is no longer touching the grip.

 

Mr. Wolfe

Edited December 5, 2022 by Mr_Wolfe

[Mr_Wolfe]

I can't believe I am going this in-depth with my grip, but here we are... lol

 

The first picture shows my grip if I try to cover my left thumb. It's hard to tell, but my right thumb is floating and not even touching the grip. My 2 middle fingers are "just" gripping the club and my pointer finger is "just" gripping the club. The 2nd picture appears like I have a better grip of the club, but my grip pressure is about as hard as I can grip it.

 

Mr. Wolfe

[Ifelloffladder]

The second pic looks perfect. Just connect the tips of your right pointer finger and your right thumb.

[Mr_Wolfe]

3 hours ago, Ifelloffladder said:

The second pic looks perfect. Just connect the tips of your right pointer finger and your right thumb.

 

I agree it looks better, but I have a death grip on the club to give my fingers enough room to grip the club.

 

Mr. Wolfe

[MonteScheinblum]

Right thumb and forefinger too far apart

[Mr_Wolfe]

13 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Right thumb and forefinger too far apart

 

Totally agree Monte and thanks for chiming in. This is exactly what happens whenever I try to remove the gap between my hands. There really isn't a gap, but it appear as such because I can't totally cover my left thumb and still grip the club.

 

This is my actual grip below. It fits together pretty well with no gaps anywhere, but whenever you look at it from the front at address, it appears my hands are separated. I think it's my fat thumb and palm (with my very short fingers) not allowing me to get my hands closer.

 

Double interlock is the only way I can get my hands closer as I have tried everything.

 

Mr. Wolfe

Edited December 5, 2022 by Mr_Wolfe

[Rosco1216]

I have short fingers as well. Here is a depiction of how to grip with your left hand and then how I place the right hand. 

[Mr_Wolfe]

5 minutes ago, Rosco1216 said:

I have short fingers as well. Here is a depiction of how to grip with your left hand and then how I place the right hand.

 

Thank you for the pictures. This is pretty much the exact same way I build my grip. I can do my grip the same as yours, but my 2 middle fingers in my right hand have to have the club running through the middle section of those fingers instead of like how Hogan's book shows it. Because of this, I feel like I barely have a hold of the club.

 

Where is the club hitting those fingers for you?

 

Mr. Wolfe

[MonteScheinblum]

Grip size is likely an issue then

[Rosco1216]

1 minute ago, Mr_Wolfe said:

 

Thank you for the pictures. This is pretty much the exact same way I build my grip. I can do my grip the same as yours, but my 2 middle fingers in my right hand have to have the club running through the middle section of those fingers instead of like how Hogan's book shows it. Because of this, I feel like I barely have a hold of the club.

 

Where is the club hitting those fingers for you?

 

Mr. Wolfe

I believe your issue is the angle at which you have you left hand in the club. Hogan did it a little different and had large hands and fingers. With your size of fingers it’s almost impossible to grip the like that and support the club and have it work for you. You need to be able to support the club easily with your left index finger and the pad of your lower palm like shown in my first picture. 

My middle 2 fingers on my right hand are just along for the ride. My right thumb and index finger are barely pinching on the end.  I can play with my right middle and ring finger straight and not even touching. I actually have before when I broke my middle finger and had it taped to my ring finger. 
 

Difficult angle to get by myself but the very base of the fingers/upper palm are applying pressure from roughly 2:00 if the direct underside is 12:00.

[Mr_Wolfe]

10 minutes ago, Rosco1216 said:

I believe your issue is the angle at which you have you left hand in the club. Hogan did it a little different and had large hands and fingers. With your size of fingers it’s almost impossible to grip the like that and support the club and have it work for you. You need to be able to support the club easily with your left index finger and the pad of your lower palm like shown in my first picture. 

My middle 2 fingers on my right hand are just along for the ride. My right thumb and index finger are barely pinching on the end.  I can play with my right middle and ring finger straight and not even touching. I actually have before when I broke my middle finger and had it taped to my ring finger. 
 

Difficult angle to get by myself but the very base of the fingers/upper palm are applying pressure from roughly 2:00 if the direct underside is 12:00.

 

 

 

Thank you again for taking the time. I think I am getting closer and closer. I have strengthened my grip over the past year and definitely make it look even worse. Whenever I weaken my right hand closer to a neutral grip, it looks better.

 

The angles look weird and my daughters are over taking pictures of my grip in their rooms. lol

 

Monte, I am using undersized grips.

 

Mr. Wolfe

Edited December 5, 2022 by Mr_Wolfe

[Ifelloffladder]

18 hours ago, Mr_Wolfe said:

 

I agree it looks better, but I have a death grip on the club to give my fingers enough room to grip the club.

 

Mr. Wolfe

That is why I overlap instead of interlock. Makes my life much more easier for me but I've been doing it for more than 40 yrs and that is the only grip i'm used to now. I have tried interlock but had the same issue with you and couldn't get that left thumb snugged under my right hand.

[Mr_Wolfe]

10 minutes ago, Ifelloffladder said:

That is why I overlap instead of interlock. Makes my life much more easier for me but I've been doing it for more than 40 yrs and that is the only grip i'm used to now. I have tried interlock but had the same issue with you and couldn't get that left thumb snugged under my right hand.

 

Wow, the overlap actually feels pretty good. I have tried it in the past and didn't like it.

 

Mr. Wolfe

[KMeloney]

Mr. Wolf -- Yeah, I've tried interlocking on the range in the past, and it always feels like it pulls my hands away from the grip under where my fingers interlock. If you're having problems feeling like you've got a good grip on the club, then I'm betting that interlocking is adding to that. Maybe toy around with overlapping some more.

 

That, and I feel like you're still missing something that folks have mentioned repeatedly here: That right thumb weakly hanging off the left side of the grip isn't doing you any favors. You'll feel like you have a much better grip on the club if you get your right thumb on the grip somewhere between 11:00 and 12:00. Right now, or "still," that huge gap between your thumb and index finger (at the webbing between the two) actually allows the club to move around in that space at the top/in transition. If you pinch the side of your thumb against the hand pad of your index finger and take the club to the top, you'll see that that little v-notch you've created helps support the weight of the club.

[Mr_Wolfe]

46 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

Mr. Wolf -- Yeah, I've tried interlocking on the range in the past, and it always feels like it pulls my hands away from the grip under where my fingers interlock. If you're having problems feeling like you've got a good grip on the club, then I'm betting that interlocking is adding to that. Maybe toy around with overlapping some more.

 

That, and I feel like you're still missing something that folks have mentioned repeatedly here: That right thumb weakly hanging off the left side of the grip isn't doing you any favors. You'll feel like you have a much better grip on the club if you get your right thumb on the grip somewhere between 11:00 and 12:00. Right now, or "still," that huge gap between your thumb and index finger (at the webbing between the two) actually allows the club to move around in that space at the top/in transition. If you pinch the side of your thumb against the hand pad of your index finger and take the club to the top, you'll see that that little v-notch you've created helps support the weight of the club.

 

Yep, I think I have found my new grip. Agree with everything you are saying. I will post more swing videos shortly. Thanks all.

 

Mr. Wolfe

[Mr_Wolfe]

Okay, a couple of things. I think my grip is better than before using the overlap. I tried to use my right knee as a trigger to start swing, but unsure about that. I see my head is still moving forward, albeit, not as much as previously. Maybe this is why I am still flipping or scooping at impact? I think in the still picture I took I still have a little bit of shaft lean which would explain why sometimes I compress the ball and sometimes I scoop and have a weak shot.

 

Would love any feedback. My own personally feedback would be that I need more hip and shoulder turn, need to stay centered better, and have my lead leg a little more posted at impact which should keep my head back. Also, should my trail foot still be on the ground at impact?

 

Mr. Wolfe

Edited December 6, 2022 by Mr_Wolfe

[Mr_Wolfe]

Also, here is my swing in key positions.

 

Mr. Wolfe

[Mr_Wolfe]

It's still pretty bad...

 

Mr. Wolfe

[Mr_Wolfe]

I am committed to get my HDCP down next season. Hopefully my work this winter will get me off to a good start. Just for reference, my GHIN ranges from 6-9 and has for some time. My short game is very good for my HDCP (closer to scratch players I know) and my weakness is my ball striking (as you can probably tell). I feel if I can get more consistent ball-striking, I can drop my HDCP a couple of points and get to that coveted 5 or better that I have been chasing.

 

Mr. Wolfe

[dvq9654]

1 hour ago, Mr_Wolfe said:

It's still pretty bad...

 

Mr. Wolfe

I don’t mean this in a negative way, but it’s going to take time to make these changes. Probably months or even years (that doesn’t mean you can’t get better during this time; quite the contrary). The fact you can see a difference over the course of days is great, but you’ll need to keep focusing on this until you can do it in your sleep. 
 

I can tell you are committed, so keep that in mind as you head down this path.  Incremental improvements can result in massive changes over time, so don’t get discouraged and trust the process. 

[Rosco1216]

You still need to fix your left hand man. 

Once again, I will post some pictures of how you should be able to hold and balance the club using only your index finger and lower pad of your palm.  Can you do that currently with how you’re gripping it with your left hand?  

 

From what I can tell, it appears like the grip is in the palm like the picture below. 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Rosco1216

[glk]

Current motion is now spinning so the big slide is gone.

 

yes your body is pretty inert.

 

my first post in the thread had hogan and other with the shurn motion - shift,turn,shift,turn     This is pretty much what all tour pros and other elite swings do.

 

dr kwon explains it and has some demo drills other than the stepping drills.   Being able to do the shurn drills well helps a lot in doing the stepping drills.    Key in thismmotion is yiu are actively pushing down and away - this also creates a vertical rhythm to go with then shurn horizontal rhythm.

 

kyle b and josh k are the horizontal and vertical rhythm on steroids

https://www.instagram.com/p/CjotGUnI7uN/?hl=en

https://www.instagram.com/p/ChZxxFOg2wn/?hl=en

 

noticeable and more human like, ie not long drive - tab is slo mo iron

https://www.instagram.com/p/ClKAlwny9oz/?hl=en

 

 

 

Beauty of this is you first  can train the motion without all the stuff associated with swinging and hitting a ball

 

 

just need you, a 10 lb weight, and a club for these  can get a rope later.

 

 

Dr kwon leading a student in the shurn motion

https://www.instagram.com/p/CfAer24N4Kd/

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by glk