Colorado WRX 2023

[Joelness]

Got back from ten days in Tucson on Sunday night. My wife was already going for a women's member-guest at Ventana Canyon and since we have the companion pass on SW I figured I would go. Got in 54 the weekend before last, with one round in the red as it got too dark to see my ball on 18 Saturday. Ended up playing four rounds at Ventana and one round at Tucson Country Club with practice going on all week after work to prep for the season.

 

Man, I love going on golf trips with these ladies (went to Bandon with them last year) but ten days is simply too much estrogen.

 

One of the coolest/luckiest parts was LIV had an event at the Gallery last weekend we went. For live golf, I like it better than the PGA Tour for sure. One thing that really surprised me was actually how much talent they have in LIV. I haven't been watching it on TV but there were at least ten guys that are some of the best in the world that I hadn't realized left the PGA Tour. There is now so much talent there that golf needs to figure out how to get these tours to co-exist. My quick wrap-up of pros and cons:

Pros:

1. There is music going on throughout the entire course.
2. The players were much less stuffy, it felt like a practice round but their score actually mattered.
3. The whole event is a shotgun start. Some people might not like this but I loved it as it was a "show up and watch golf for 4-5 hours."
4. Crowds were much smaller, allowing you to walk around and still get great views.

Cons:

1. Very few places to sit, they didn't put up many stands and all the ones I did see required extra $$
2. Shotgun start, I could see people not liking how short it can be.
3. Concessions were stupid expensive.

Overall it was ran very well IMO. The parking and shuttles were spot on.

 

Lastly, I now NEED to play the Gallery, it looks legit.

[pseudoswede]

23 minutes ago, Joelness said:

 

I've always heard the greens at South Suburban were knarly but I didn't realize they were "roll back to your feet" knarly. I'm usually more OK than most with crazy greens but that s*** would drive me crazy in any serious context.

 

Yeah, there are about three pin placements on #5 where the ball will end up in certain spots if you miss the hole. Then it's just a matter of getting the right speed or else you can just literally stand in the same spot and repeat your putting stroke. My record is 7. 😄

 

If they mow the greens to be somewhat quick (which they haven't the past few seasons), there are about 3-4 more holes where you could run into that situation.

[pseudoswede]

Just got a note saying that City Park will be walking only for another month. Might take advantage of that (and my company giving us our birthday as a paid day off) in two weeks.

[Hardrain]

1 hour ago, Joelness said:

 

 

One of the coolest/luckiest parts was LIV had an event at the Gallery last weekend we went. For live golf, I like it better than the PGA Tour for sure. One thing that really surprised me was actually how much talent they have in LIV. I haven't been watching it on TV but there were at least ten guys that are some of the best in the world that I hadn't realized left the PGA Tour. There is now so much talent there that golf needs to figure out how to get these tours to co-exist. My quick wrap-up of pros and cons:

Pros:

1. There is music going on throughout the entire course.
2. The players were much less stuffy, it felt like a practice round but their score actually mattered.
3. The whole event is a shotgun start. Some people might not like this but I loved it as it was a "show up and watch golf for 4-5 hours."
4. Crowds were much smaller, allowing you to walk around and still get great views

 

This is interesting and I have been looking for a good LIV debate! My personal take is that LIV is much more likely to be defunct within 24 months than ever co-exist with the PGA Tour. I think your take I am most surprised about is that they have so much talent. Who?? Cam Smith is definitely a stick but it feels to me like guys like DJ, Brooks, Bryson, etc. have thrown in the towel. If Liv is so talented, how are guys like Danny Lee and Charles Howell (guys who have never had much success on PGA Tour) beating everyone else? I think plenty of the LIV guys COULD be good, but took the LIV money because they are done grinding and trying to be a top player and are just chillin now. Bryson went from winning the US Open to not even being able to find red numbers anymore! Also your Pro #2 that it felt like a practice round but their score actually mattered. Are we sure it mattered? One theory as to why lesser players are winning on Liv is because they NEED the winner's purse, while the actual top players have been paid and aren't going to put in the extra work to win an incremental 1 or 2 million. 

 

Also, I don't mind music on the course but from what I have heard from some broadcasts, it doesn't seem like the LIV tunes fit my musical tastes so that would probably just annoy me. haha

 

I think the majors this season will be REALLY interesting. Will LIV guys find form and compete? If not, I don't see LIV lasting long. If a LIV guy wins a major, then its a different story.

[Joelness]

12 minutes ago, Hardrain said:

 

This is interesting and I have been looking for a good LIV debate! My personal take is that LIV is much more likely to be defunct within 24 months than ever co-exist with the PGA Tour. I think your take I am most surprised about is that they have so much talent. Who?? Cam Smith is definitely a stick but it feels to me like guys like DJ, Brooks, Bryson, etc. have thrown in the towel. If Liv is so talented, how are guys like Danny Lee and Charles Howell (guys who have never had much success on PGA Tour) beating everyone else? I think plenty of the LIV guys COULD be good, but took the LIV money because they are done grinding and trying to be a top player and are just chillin now. Bryson went from winning the US Open to not even being able to find red numbers anymore! Also your Pro #2 that it felt like a practice round but their score actually mattered. Are we sure it mattered? One theory as to why lesser players are winning on Liv is because they NEED the winner's purse, while the actual top players have been paid and aren't going to put in the extra work to win an incremental 1 or 2 million. 

 

Also, I don't mind music on the course but from what I have heard from some broadcasts, it doesn't seem like the LIV tunes fit my musical tastes so that would probably just annoy me. haha

 

I think the majors this season will be REALLY interesting. Will LIV guys find form and compete? If not, I don't see LIV lasting long. If a LIV guy wins a major, then its a different story.

 

Like I said, there are a lot more studs out there that you don't even realize are out there (Abe Ancer, Paul Casey, Taylor Gooch, Branden Grace, Matt Jones, Jason Kokrak, Marc Leishman!, Joaquin Niemann, Carlos Ortiz, Mito Pereira, Harold Varner, Matt Wolff). I had no idea any of these listed guys were out there until I went to the range before the round and was blown away how many I recognized. I never realized I hadn't seen them in the PGA Tour until I saw them out there.

 

I'm not going to argue that it's less competitive overall, that's obvious. If you're going to bring up Bryson, at least acknowledge that he's going through a tough mental time with his dad dying recently. Obviously getting paid up front will affect the drive and focus and I'm not denying that.

 

Sure, the tour could fold, but it has already done great things for all of professional golf with players getting bigger chunks of the overall pot. As americans, I'm constantly blown away with how few people realize that competition is an essential part of capitalism. I could care less if the tour folds, but either way the PGA Tour banning all of these players makes their product worse no matter how you slice it. It's the classic corporation that has a monopoly trying to destroy new competition in the market.

 

Tbh, the music wasn't my favorite either, but it's still a better event to go to than the PGA Tour. The only event close in enjoyment for spectators was the British Open I went to in 2018. There were plenty of people in our group that didn't like the LIV tour but every single one of us left the event saying it was better than any other live golf we've gone to :shrug:

 

I now see the draw of exhibition matches that used to happen back in the day. It's still amazing to see some of the best in the world and whatever I have to do to watch them hit shots from 6-10 feet away is fine by me.

[pseudoswede]

I have basically had zero interest in watching golf on TV for the past decade, so LIV won't change that for me. Also, I have zero desire to travel to a golf tournament to watch it--two exceptions would be if I got free tickets to The Masters and any major tournament played at Valhalla (my company is based in Louisville--you may have seen our sponsored aerial coverage and our ads on NBC golf broadcasts). I'm looking forward to the BMW at Castle Pines next year, too--I should be able to snag free admission.

[Dancin]

4 hours ago, Joelness said:

Got back from ten days in Tucson on Sunday night. My wife was already going for a women's member-guest at Ventana Canyon and since we have the companion pass on SW I figured I would go. Got in 54 the weekend before last, with one round in the red as it got too dark to see my ball on 18 Saturday. Ended up playing four rounds at Ventana and one round at Tucson Country Club with practice going on all week after work to prep for the season.

 

Man, I love going on golf trips with these ladies (went to Bandon with them last year) but ten days is simply too much estrogen.

 

One of the coolest/luckiest parts was LIV had an event at the Gallery last weekend we went. For live golf, I like it better than the PGA Tour for sure. One thing that really surprised me was actually how much talent they have in LIV. I haven't been watching it on TV but there were at least ten guys that are some of the best in the world that I hadn't realized left the PGA Tour. There is now so much talent there that golf needs to figure out how to get these tours to co-exist. My quick wrap-up of pros and cons:

Pros:

1. There is music going on throughout the entire course.
2. The players were much less stuffy, it felt like a practice round but their score actually mattered.
3. The whole event is a shotgun start. Some people might not like this but I loved it as it was a "show up and watch golf for 4-5 hours."
4. Crowds were much smaller, allowing you to walk around and still get great views.

Cons:

1. Very few places to sit, they didn't put up many stands and all the ones I did see required extra $$
2. Shotgun start, I could see people not liking how short it can be.
3. Concessions were stupid expensive.

Overall it was ran very well IMO. The parking and shuttles were spot on.

 

Lastly, I now NEED to play the Gallery, it looks legit.

LIV is the best golf to watch on TV right now. All action without the tons of commercials the regular tour events have.

And yes on Gallery - I had written off trying to get on it thinking it was flat and not worth it, but I will definitely try and get on it on my next Tucson trip.

[ASak10]

I have zero desire to watch anything related to LIV and I hope it dies a slow and painful death 🙂 I was going to be more nuanced but figured who cares, cut to the point, I really don't like it.  I don't begrudge anyone that does, watch whatever you want!  Just won't be me.  

[Joelness]

15 minutes ago, ASak10 said:

I have zero desire to watch anything related to LIV and I hope it dies a slow and painful death 🙂 I was going to be more nuanced but figured who cares, cut to the point, I really don't like it.  I don't begrudge anyone that does, watch whatever you want!  Just won't be me.  

 

I have a ton of respect for this opinion, well said sir.

 

I just remembered seeing how pissed both Matt Wolff and Paul Casey were when they walked off 17 six feet from me bashing their bags for making par..... They still care

[ASak10]

17 minutes ago, Joelness said:

 

I have a ton of respect for this opinion, well said sir.

 

I just remembered seeing how pissed both Matt Wolff and Paul Casey were when they walked off 17 six feet from me bashing their bags for making par..... They still care

 

Oh I think many will still care for sure.  I also agree with your statement about competition making things better on the PGA Tour and I think we are already seeing that happen.  It will be very interesting to see how the next year or two play out with all this, including the lawsuits between them.  

[ztull]

On 3/24/2023 at 8:39 AM, Joelness said:

Got back from ten days in Tucson on Sunday night. My wife was already going for a women's member-guest at Ventana Canyon and since we have the companion pass on SW I figured I would go. Got in 54 the weekend before last, with one round in the red as it got too dark to see my ball on 18 Saturday. Ended up playing four rounds at Ventana and one round at Tucson Country Club with practice going on all week after work to prep for the season.

 

Man, I love going on golf trips with these ladies (went to Bandon with them last year) but ten days is simply too much estrogen.

 

One of the coolest/luckiest parts was LIV had an event at the Gallery last weekend we went. For live golf, I like it better than the PGA Tour for sure. One thing that really surprised me was actually how much talent they have in LIV. I haven't been watching it on TV but there were at least ten guys that are some of the best in the world that I hadn't realized left the PGA Tour. There is now so much talent there that golf needs to figure out how to get these tours to co-exist. My quick wrap-up of pros and cons:

Pros:

1. There is music going on throughout the entire course.
2. The players were much less stuffy, it felt like a practice round but their score actually mattered.
3. The whole event is a shotgun start. Some people might not like this but I loved it as it was a "show up and watch golf for 4-5 hours."
4. Crowds were much smaller, allowing you to walk around and still get great views.

Cons:

1. Very few places to sit, they didn't put up many stands and all the ones I did see required extra $$
2. Shotgun start, I could see people not liking how short it can be.
3. Concessions were stupid expensive.

Overall it was ran very well IMO. The parking and shuttles were spot on.

 

Lastly, I now NEED to play the Gallery, it looks legit.

Pictures I’ve seen from The Gallery look SICK. That group owns another course near by, Dove Mountain. $170 peak time peak season rate, I FIRMLY believe that is the best bang for buck value in the whole country.

Edited March 25, 2023 by ztull

[golf4pj]

On 3/24/2023 at 1:57 PM, ASak10 said:

I have zero desire to watch anything related to LIV and I hope it dies a slow and painful death 🙂 I was going to be more nuanced but figured who cares, cut to the point, I really don't like it.  I don't begrudge anyone that does, watch whatever you want!  Just won't be me.  

I've tried to watch LIV golf on TV, but all the stuff surrounding the screen is just too distracting for me.  If LIV does fail, it will be VERY interesting to see what happens with all the players who were banned from the PGA Tour.  Maybe they tell them if they donate their LIV bonuses to a charity, they'd let them back in?!?  yeah, that's not going to happen.  lol

-- P.J.

[golf4pj]

On 3/24/2023 at 1:57 PM, ASak10 said:

I have zero desire to watch anything related to LIV and I hope it dies a slow and painful death 🙂 I was going to be more nuanced but figured who cares, cut to the point, I really don't like it.  I don't begrudge anyone that does, watch whatever you want!  Just won't be me.  

 

[Joelness]

On 3/25/2023 at 8:13 AM, ztull said:

Pictures I’ve seen from The Gallery look SICK. That group owns another course near by, Dove Mountain. $170 peak time peak season rate, I FIRMLY believe that is the best bang for buck value in the whole country.

 

I hope you're talking about the Gallery. I've played Dove twice and... it's not worth the money IMO. I loathe all the washouts running through almost every single fairway.

[ztull]

1 hour ago, Joelness said:

 

I hope you're talking about the Gallery. I've played Dove twice and... it's not worth the money IMO. I loathe all the washouts running through almost every single fairway.

Oh man BIG disagree here, although I like desert golf, I like Nicklaus, and I like severely graded greens 🤷

 

have you riden the water slide at the resort? 

[Joelness]

1 hour ago, ztull said:

Oh man BIG disagree here, although I like desert golf, I like Nicklaus, and I like severely graded greens 🤷

 

have you riden the water slide at the resort? 

 

Oh I have no problem with the greens. It was mostly the desert washouts everywhere that I didn't like much, terrible course for ladies. I would love the course for $100, but they want 175-225 and it has to be REALLY special for me to be excited about paying those numbers.

 

No, we have friends that live on ventana so we just stay there for free every time.

[ztull]

1 hour ago, Joelness said:

 

Oh I have no problem with the greens. It was mostly the desert washouts everywhere that I didn't like much, terrible course for ladies. I would love the course for $100, but they want 175-225 and it has to be REALLY special for me to be excited about paying those numbers.

 

No, we have friends that live on ventana so we just stay there for free every time.

man I have never given those washes a second thought. I worked at cherry creek for 6 years, maybe I’m immune 

[TheKrushh]

I'm curious to how the majors go this year. If Cam Smith is right back in the top 10 at Augusta it will definitely give Liv some momentum, if all the Liv guys miss the cut and suck, it will swing the momentum to the idea that it's pretend golf. I'm more excited to watch the Masters than I have been in a long time. 

My profile picture is actually from the range at Dove Mountain like 11-12 years ago. It was a fun course when I played it but don't really remember it now which is not usually a good sign for me. 

[Dancin]

Agree on Dove Mountain being way overpriced for what it is. I played it last year on a teeoff deal so it wasn't much more than other courses. I wouldn't play it again unless it had a similar deal which looks like it will never happen since they pulled their listings from it. Dove Mtn is asking for $300 right now which is insane.

[ztull]

1 hour ago, Dancin said:

Agree on Dove Mountain being way overpriced for what it is. I played it last year on a teeoff deal so it wasn't much more than other courses. I wouldn't play it again unless it had a similar deal which looks like it will never happen since they pulled their listings from it. Dove Mtn is asking for $300 right now which is insane.

Cheese and rice!!!

I payed the rack rate for a 9:00 tee time in early October. $170??!?!?

Resort golf just gets more and more expensive...

Edited March 28, 2023 by ztull

[ztull]

I got Doak's Confidental Guide for my birthday!!!

 

Some things that stick out from the Colorado section:

He admits that he handed off CommonGround to the Denver-based members of his design team (but says that some of the holes they dreamed up are so good he wishes he thought of them himself).

He pans CCR, and explicitly points out that Sonnenalp is better (VINDICATED).

Some light teasing of Perry in the Glenmoor review, says the late architect LIVED to cram 190 homesites and 18 holes onto a 105-acre plot (I'm still going to beg borrow and steal to play the DL3 reno).

Edited March 28, 2023 by ztull

[Joelness]

3 hours ago, Dancin said:

Agree on Dove Mountain being way overpriced for what it is. I played it last year on a teeoff deal so it wasn't much more than other courses. I wouldn't play it again unless it had a similar deal which looks like it will never happen since they pulled their listings from it. Dove Mtn is asking for $300 right now which is insane.

 

Yep, this is ultimately my point. I think it's a good track but not worth the $$$$. Besides, our friend lives on Ventana and we get the accompanied guest rate of ~$65. We also get to take her golf cart straight from her garage which is always glorious.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Joelness

[TheKrushh]

5 hours ago, ztull said:

I got Doak's Confidental Guide for my birthday!!!

 

Some things that stick out from the Colorado section:

He admits that he handed off CommonGround to the Denver-based members of his design team (but says that some of the holes they dreamed up are so good he wishes he thought of them himself).

He pans CCR, and explicitly points out that Sonnenalp is better (VINDICATED).

Some light teasing of Perry in the Glenmoor review, says the late architect LIVED to cram 190 homesites and 18 holes onto a 105-acre plot (I'm still going to beg borrow and steal to play the DL3 reno).

I can't wait until Glenmoor opens back up because some of their members are on some sort of a reciprocal at Highlands Ranch. I had a guy join our group and it was the single worst experience I've ever had. The worst of every annoying golfer put in to one. I need them gone!

[deadsolid...shank]

3 hours ago, Joelness said:

 

Yep, this is ultimately my point. I think it's a good track but not worth the $$$$. Besides, our friend lives on Ventana and we get the accompanied guest rate of ~$65. We also get to take her golf cart straight from her garage which is always glorious.

Joel, were you scheduled to play Skins in Greeley this weekend? I didn’t remember if you normally played spring or fall or both. 

[Dancin]

1 hour ago, TheKrushh said:

I can't wait until Glenmoor opens back up because some of their members are on some sort of a reciprocal at Highlands Ranch. I had a guy join our group and it was the single worst experience I've ever had. The worst of every annoying golfer put in to one. I need them gone!

Ha. You have to share details.

[ztull]

2 hours ago, Dancin said:

Ha. You have to share details.

bump 

[golf4pj]

I'm headed to Augusta next week!!  Scored tickets to Saturday's round!

I've been twice before, on practice days (a Monday (2016) and a Tuesday (2012)).  The great thing about practice rounds is they let you take a camera in and I have some great pics from those trips.  No cell phones allowed, but cameras on practice rounds only.

This will be the first time I'll be there during a competitive round and I'm really looking forward to it.

My buddy and I are flying into Atlanta, playing 2 rounds there, then driving down to Augusta on Friday morning for a round at Monticello Golf Club.  Saturday morning, bright and early, we'll be waiting at the gates with all the other patrons to walk the course where legends play!

 

I'm hoping to get in rounds this Friday, Saturday and Sunday to knock the rust off my game.  My last round was March 4th, unless you count a round on my simulator last Friday (which was full of a lot of pulled shots).  Playing Eisenhower Blue on Friday, South Suburban on Saturday and Eisenhower Silver on Sunday.

 

We're flying home early Sunday morning so we can be back in time to watch the final round on TV.

As Jim Nantz said - “A Tradition Unlike Any Other”

-- P.J.

[CDM]

17 hours of flying, 2 layovers (1.5 hrs each) and as always plane issue that had us sitting on SFO runway for an hour...!   BUT we made and all the gear.  

 

Round 1:  Paraparaumu Beach Golf Club.  Played the course with adminstration manager at the club so we had a great guide. Great person.  Key note: New Zealand golf they love to "extort" international players.  Like 2 or 3 teims the normal greens fee rate.  PBGC for international play cost $190 NZD playing with a "member" we pald $75 NZD.   So a nice savings.  *PBGC does allow public play you just have to email but it is mainly a member course

 

The course is an easy walk though if you see the aerial image you would not think it would be.

 

Plays to 71 and both sides play about the same. I would speculate the back 9 is a bit tougher.  Could of been the jet lag maybe???

 

We started on 10 as there was some hold up which left a number of  members standing around as they were behind based on a morning  maintenance.     ........plus I  did not want us to be that "group" who held up all those members

 

All of us started off great base, being pumped up. Then we  hit the "Jet Lag Wall" for 6-7 holse before getting it together.   

 

Par's on 10-11.... then I shot 8 over on the next 7 holes (just sad).  Found some energy for the front 9 and shot 36 (1 over). 80 that should have been much lower.

 

Is it worth playing?  Yes we all agreed on that.  It is an excellent course. If they wanted too it could be a very test tough.  Tiger played the NZ Open there once and barely made the cut as I recall.  If there was one knock the greens are very large and bit "bland" (8th hole was really small compared to others).  I should state putting surfaces were gentle breaks. 

 

A number of greens had this really cool aspect of what we called "infinity" edges.  It would be dead flat  and then have a small rollover o  the edge and 45 degrees down that would be 10' or more below the green.  It was cool up close.  just a hard angle break at the edge of the green.  

 

Edit: you can see we just beat the rain coming in

Edited March 29, 2023 by CDM

[CDM]

Round 2: Wairakei Gof and Sancutary 

 

*I need to stat up front  patkland courses are not ones  I search out.  Just not my style I like.

 

Par 72.   One thing i forgot to note prior is when you play you have to give your HDCP to them.  They print you a score card with your name on it and tees your going to play.   When i mean tees your going to play....they tell you.  A marshall can ask to see it if he thinks your on the wrong tee.   FUN fact.... you can tell them your friends name nad hdcp........some of the names that have made it on the score cards....lets just say have been "interesting" 😃 

 

The other 2 on the trip thought it was amazing.  I thought it was a really good course and visual course.... which 100% made me feel as if I was playing a TROON course. The condiitions where excellent tee to green for 90% but had some spots from the cyclone damage that hit the area.  

 

We all felt we gave up 2-3 shots or more shots do to a few issues but only as we did not know the course..

 

Tee shots for the most part except 17  are straight out in front of you and had typcially had the "RTJ bunkering" settup on either side just staggered.   Dont get me wrong was nothing really bad about course but it comes down to id you like "golf design or visual/pretty".   I mean we all enjoyed playing it.  

 

Drinks after we all felt with some less issues we all should have shot 3-4 lower as it is not a hard course by any means off the tee or greens.  Best holes were 6 and 13 if I recall them right. They had the real design aspects.

 

The 18th par 5 if you you can not bridie it then there is an issue, sorry was that easy, even I birdied it.  YES even me LOL

 

Would I play it again, no I would not. Glad I did it but not for me.   As noted they other two loved it and keep talking about it

 

The one photo is the swath the cyclone ripped.  Crazy as it just ripped a 100 yard area for a long long way....20 yards either side fine.

 

We saw trees with bases that were  the size of a small apartments ripped right out of the ground. 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by CDM

[CDM]

Interesting aspects.  Golf in US is always jammed up with play as we know...... not here for the most part.

 

RANGATIRA GOLF CLUB:  So we were driving through the county side to Taupo. We drove past a course and decided to turn around. It looked like it was private house.  We walk up and there was NO ONE at the course. I mean working or playing.  At 2pm? 

 

We then see a sign and it was play on the honor system.

You take a card tab, fill in your info, toss the number tab and 20 NZD ($14 usd) for 9 holes in a dropbox and start walking. We had  limited time so only 9 but it was soooo much FUN.  So old school and brought back memories.   Course was not hard and conditions needed some care but not bad.  The greens were thickish and felt spongy. Just 3 of us on a down to earth middle of small town golf course  We had a blast...!  Happy we hit it.     

 

KINLOCH:  After Wairakei we got food and headed to Kinloch to see if we could jump out.  NOPE.... they were closed at 2:30 ISH...??? On a Wednesday (we are day ahead)....  it was a shocking.

 

The cousre in person looks amazing and tough.  

 

Edit: first picture is 7th at Rangatira. You are 80 feet maybe above fairway. Or sure feelsl Ike it.   Only took the one photo but memories will last.  Others are Kinloch. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by CDM