Bryson's new PING irons (*** NO LIV REFERENCES/DISCUSSIONS ***)

[bladehunter]

47 minutes ago, GFarrell said:

 

I did lead the sentence with If i can relate this to my own bag. Maybe it would have been more appropriate to say Loft doesn't always equal distance.

 

I wouldnt say i hit the ball extremely low either. my point was I wouldn't be the first hacker to increase distance from increasing loft, independent of peak height, anyone who doesn't generate enough spin would be an ideal candidate, especially in the long irons.

 

He swings his clubs about 20mph faster than me, i don't think we're in the same spin and speed windows to really compare directly.

I would love to see the spin numbers off his 4 iron, versus 'ideal' 4 iron spin for most players. I would imagine they're close.
 

I agree there. Id love to see the numbers too.
 

 I’m curious because my setup has always been closer to single length than not.  My pw-lob are same length and that length is an inch over standard. So very close to 7 iron standard length say for a mizuno club.  From 9 iron up I only skip up 1/4 inch between.  I don’t really have the issues he seems to find. But I understand that by the time I get to 3-4 iron I’m nowhere near 7 iron length. So it’s apparently a sensitive subject.  I’ve been interested in single length since the beginning. But it’s just such an expensive proposition to try out.  I mean in the shaft I play alone it would be $ 800 plus grips plus iron heads.  And resale would likely be $500 lol.  So a loser all the way.  

Edited March 6, 2023 by bladehunter

[Binson]

On 3/6/2023 at 7:50 AM, bladehunter said:

Exactly. Why does it matter ?  It obviously does or Bryson would just have 9 iron on all of them.    It matters to both sides of this argument.  You can’t just ask it from one perspective without flipping it around.  
 

 

 

the deal is , if you gave him a 47 degree pw from say a ap2 set that’s an inch over standard with his shaft  , will he hit it 180 yards ?  I doubt it.  So ? It then becomes a loft for loft comparison.  It either is a loft for loft comparison , or no comparison can be made.  And if no comparison can be made then we shouldn’t say “ he’s hitting his 9 iron “.  We should say “ he’s hitting his 37 degree iron “.  

and

 

On 3/6/2023 at 8:31 AM, Vlade15 said:

It doesn't matter until you see disingenuous posts on Instagram and all that with him and others talking about how far they are hitting their clubs.  "I hit my 4 iron 280" - okay, great.  Your "4 iron" has 16 degrees of loft.

Then they make the argument that its "spin" related.   

Sorry I already addressed this earlier in the thread. Not that I expect everyone to read entire threads. The context is on Page 3 and there are bunch of other good posts there as well.  

Cheers

[Jpowell2142]

On 2/24/2023 at 2:18 PM, BombinJim said:

Probably loft jacked to all hell with a 24 degree 8 iron.

I've never seen such an obscure bag with such a high handicap. were you fit? or is that all ego

[BombinJim]

17 minutes ago, Jpowell2142 said:

I've never seen such an obscure bag with such a high handicap. were you fit? or is that all ego

Fit for shafts and loft gapping and I play the heads that I like (weight, looks, feel). Thanks for the interest.

[BCC1898]

2 hours ago, Jpowell2142 said:

I've never seen such an obscure bag with such a high handicap. were you fit? or is that all ego

What an odd question…and an even ruder way of asking it. 

[Vlade15]

4 hours ago, Binson said:

and

 

Sorry I already addressed this earlier in the thread. Not that I expect everyone to read entire threads. The context is on Page 3 and there are bunch of other good posts there as well.  

Cheers

Yeah, I read your responses earlier.  Does not change that his "9 iron" is the same as my 7 iron and we hit it the same distance with similar spin numbers.  So I guess I am failing to understand how its anything but loft jacking.

[Jpowell2142]

3 hours ago, BombinJim said:

Fit for shafts and loft gapping and I play the heads that I like (weight, looks, feel). Thanks for the interest.

nice!

[Drrussell]

On 2/24/2023 at 7:44 PM, jomatty said:

That’s cheap publicity if he keeps them in the bag.  No one is gonna see them and want what he has but they will take note that the pickiest guy in golf chose ping once he didn’t have a contract.

Not true at all. Cobra has sold 65,000 sets in 2017. That was well before Bryson won a major and was ranked the number 4 player in the world. He was hurt last year, but a lot of people will see one of the best players in the world and try the same thing (he's not even 30 yet). 

[Drrussell]

2 hours ago, Vlade15 said:

Yeah, I read your responses earlier.  Does not change that his "9 iron" is the same as my 7 iron and we hit it the same distance with similar spin numbers.  So I guess I am failing to understand how its anything but loft jacking.

What is hard to understand?

 

Start at the LW. To hit shots into a green and get the spin, launch characteristics needed, the lofts change based on speed and how the club is delivered.

 

Based on his speed, let's say he wants the 11k rpms. He would have to deloft the club until he gets to that spin rate. He doesn't want to hit a LW that spins at 15k RPM's and rips back every time he hits into a green.

 

SW, needs to spin at 10k RPM's. PW 9k, 9i 8k, 8i 7k, 7i 6k, 6i 5k, 5i 4k, 4i 3k. Spin rates need to be correct all the way through the bag so that flight pattern, trajectory, response into the green is desirable. He would be spinning the ball way too much at his speed so that he would have inconsistent gapping and especially true in windy conditions. 

 

A set of golf clubs are built for the standard guy. Let's say that it's a normal distribution. That means that 68% of people would be within 1 standard deviation from the center of the bell curve. For those people no changes are needed. Two standard deviations from the center of the bell curve would cover 95% of the players. Let's just assume that the 27% of the people who are faster/slower should make minimal changes (club manufacturers often allow club to be bent 1-2 degrees stronger or weaker), they are covered.

 

As you move further toward either tail (beyond the 95%) of the bell curve (slow to the left and fast to the right) then lofts need to change to make ball response match what is intended for optimal launch/descent, spin.

 

Dechambeau would be way out on the tail of the bell curve, meaning that the club designed for the center of the bell curve would NOT be ideal. That same would be true for someone on the extreme low side of the distribution.

 

On the slow side, you need more loft to get more spin and thus further carry. On the fast side, you need less loft to reduce spin. 

 

It's just math/physics. Anyone swinging the club faster than 68% of the population would benefit from doing the same analysis and making tweaks to get the ideal spin rate throughout the bag.

 

*Note - This is especially true for non-pro golfers who have a consistent move. If you add loft into impact then the ball will spin more than ideal. You can either change your swing or have clubs adjusted to get ideal launch numbers. Or on the other side, if you consistently deloft the clubs, you may need to add loft to get ideal numbers. Failure to do so means poor gapping and inability to hit certain shots consistently. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Drrussell

[chip75]

18 minutes ago, Drrussell said:

Not true at all. Cobra has sold 65,000 sets in 2017. That was well before Bryson won a major and was ranked the number 4 player in the world. He was hurt last year, but a lot of people will see one of the best players in the world and try the same thing (he's not even 30 yet). 

 

I think their relatively unique make-up was the impetus for majority of sales. It's the, "Oh! that's new!" affect. Yes, he was the face of one-length, but they were the draw.

[TiScape]

39 minutes ago, Drrussell said:

Not true at all. Cobra has sold 65,000 sets in 2017. That was well before Bryson won a major and was ranked the number 4 player in the world. He was hurt last year, but a lot of people will see one of the best players in the world and try the same thing (he's not even 30 yet). 

Since it seems you have access to the info. How many sets of a particular traditional iron model did say a TM or Titleist sell in 2017? 

[Drrussell]

2 hours ago, TiScape said:

Since it seems you have access to the info. How many sets of a particular traditional iron model did say a TM or Titleist sell in 2017? 

I don't have all the numbers. It doesn't matter how many traditional clubs were sold. Single length irons came out in 2016. They reported numbers in 2017. 

 

Other manufacturers tried to create single length clubs before with no following. The difference this time around was 1 guy, Dechambeau. The best amateur turning pro...winning 10 tournaments in his 6 years on the PGA tour, including a major climbing to number 4 in the world...and placing 2nd in the world long-drive competition.

 

Now there are a large number of people playing single length irons and clearly it makes business sense for Cobra. Since 2017, Cobra has released more models, player iron vs. game improvement. They have created specialty wedges, they have created hybrids, etc. There is no doubt the number is small relative to the total number of clubs sold. 

 

At the same time, I am biased. I have played them since they came out. I have seen firsthand how it simplifies the game. Now, I am always happy when I play against people using inferior variable length clubs because I know it gives me an advantage and when I am gambling, I need any advantage I can get. 🙂 

 

 

 

[Drrussell]

3 hours ago, chip75 said:

 

I think their relatively unique make-up was the impetus for majority of sales. It's the, "Oh! that's new!" affect. Yes, he was the face of one-length, but they were the draw.

I can't discount that entirely, so you could be right. Tommy Armor also tried releasing one length clubs some time ago (when they were popular) and it flopped. 

 

It could also be that despite all the technological changes that have happened over the past 20 years golfers have continued to be terrible. I suspect that when of the best players on the planet storms to a number of amateur and then PGA wins and tells everyone that one length clubs is a way to more consistency, people were willing to try. However, I don't have data to support that, it's just my theory and absolutely could be wrong. I have been wrong before. 

 

 

[RCGA]

Everyone talking about these mythical spin windows being so important to Bryson, how do you explain Cam Champ and Rory managing to get by with "traditional" irons & lofts? 

Edited March 8, 2023 by RCGA

[Viper4225]

1 hour ago, RCGA said:

Everyone talking about these mythical spin windows being so important Bryson, how do you explain Cam Champ and Rory managing to get by with "traditional" irons & lofts? 

 

great profile pic lol

[Vlade15]

17 hours ago, Drrussell said:

What is hard to understand?

 

Start at the LW. To hit shots into a green and get the spin, launch characteristics needed, the lofts change based on speed and how the club is delivered.

 

Based on his speed, let's say he wants the 11k rpms. He would have to deloft the club until he gets to that spin rate. He doesn't want to hit a LW that spins at 15k RPM's and rips back every time he hits into a green.

 

SW, needs to spin at 10k RPM's. PW 9k, 9i 8k, 8i 7k, 7i 6k, 6i 5k, 5i 4k, 4i 3k. Spin rates need to be correct all the way through the bag so that flight pattern, trajectory, response into the green is desirable. He would be spinning the ball way too much at his speed so that he would have inconsistent gapping and especially true in windy conditions. 

 

A set of golf clubs are built for the standard guy. Let's say that it's a normal distribution. That means that 68% of people would be within 1 standard deviation from the center of the bell curve. For those people no changes are needed. Two standard deviations from the center of the bell curve would cover 95% of the players. Let's just assume that the 27% of the people who are faster/slower should make minimal changes (club manufacturers often allow club to be bent 1-2 degrees stronger or weaker), they are covered.

 

As you move further toward either tail (beyond the 95%) of the bell curve (slow to the left and fast to the right) then lofts need to change to make ball response match what is intended for optimal launch/descent, spin.

 

Dechambeau would be way out on the tail of the bell curve, meaning that the club designed for the center of the bell curve would NOT be ideal. That same would be true for someone on the extreme low side of the distribution.

 

On the slow side, you need more loft to get more spin and thus further carry. On the fast side, you need less loft to reduce spin. 

 

It's just math/physics. Anyone swinging the club faster than 68% of the population would benefit from doing the same analysis and making tweaks to get the ideal spin rate throughout the bag.

 

*Note - This is especially true for non-pro golfers who have a consistent move. If you add loft into impact then the ball will spin more than ideal. You can either change your swing or have clubs adjusted to get ideal launch numbers. Or on the other side, if you consistently deloft the clubs, you may need to add loft to get ideal numbers. Failure to do so means poor gapping and inability to hit certain shots consistently. 

All you are saying, throughout that whole post, is exactly what I am saying.  He is achieving his "distance" and "spin" by using a 7 iron instead of a 9 iron.  And is using a 2 iron instead of a 4 iron. Throughout his whole bag.

 

[TiScape]

4 hours ago, RCGA said:

Everyone talking about these mythical spin windows being so important Bryson, how do you explain Cam Champ and Rory managing to get by with "traditional" irons & lofts? 

It’s funny. If these one length irons are “such a huge advantage over variable length irons” like someone said, why is there still literally only one guy out there playing them. Simple common sense dictates that if they were indeed such a huge advantage, that that just wouldn’t be the case. I can see the sales pitch now PLAYED BY LESS THAN 1% OF THE GUYS ON TOUR! 🤣 Sure these guys are use to what they grew up playing and yada yada… But if truly that much of an advantage, someone else would be using ‘em by now. The way one poster talked about ‘em, I’m surprised Bryson doesn’t win every tournament he plays in… Oh yeah, must be the driver right 😉 

 

[ALIF]

6 hours ago, TiScape said:

It’s funny. If these one length irons are “such a huge advantage over variable length irons” like someone said, why is there still literally only one guy out there playing them. Simple common sense dictates that if they were indeed such a huge advantage, that that just wouldn’t be the case. I can see the sales pitch now PLAYED BY LESS THAN 1% OF THE GUYS ON TOUR! 🤣 Sure these guys are use to what they grew up playing and yada yada… But if truly that much of an advantage, someone else would be using ‘em by now. The way one poster talked about ‘em, I’m surprised Bryson doesn’t win every tournament he plays in… Oh yeah, must be the driver right 😉 

 

Actually, since Bryson is now with LIV, 0% of players on the PGA Tour play them. LOL.

[boggyman]

23 minutes ago, ALIF said:

Actually, since Bryson is now with LIV, 0% of players on the PGA Tour play them. LOL.

If one is playing OL “just because” Bryson is, then you’re playing them for all the wrong reasons to begin with. I play OL and in the last few rounds,not one player  in our group recognizes they’re a set of OL. It really amazes me that folks go nuts due to the fact that Mr PGA Player is bagging a “insert your own answer here” this week. Play what works for “YOU”! 

[Ghostwedge]

Been playing OL for almost 3 years now, Bryson had zero to do with it.

A balky lower back was the catalyst. At first my buddies were skeptical but got on board when I kept posting my usual 72-75's. Most of them are ex-college and mini-tour players and no one has converted. I don't mind being the lone wolf.

[Airjenks]

15 hours ago, RCGA said:

Everyone talking about these mythical spin windows being so important to Bryson, how do you explain Cam Champ and Rory managing to get by with "traditional" irons & lofts? 

It’s what Bryson cares about, that’s what he’s going for. It doesn’t make it better or worse, just different, you don’t see people screaming at Bryce Harper for using a heavier bat or when Kobe Bryant using low tops, it’s just their preference. Bryson has never been one that says “I’m better than everyone”, he’s just trying to be the best player he can be. 

[RCGA]

The thing about one length irons is that I don't want my 9i or wedges (aka scoring clubs) playing 1-2" over standard. There's 5 clubs that aren't going to mix within a "one-length" mindset. 

 

Driver, 3w, 5w and hybrid are never going to play at 37.5". Neither is my putter. So that's another 4-5 clubs depending on your set makeup. 

 

7i is already 37.5", so no change there. Playing your 8i at 1/2" long is splitting hairs in the grand scheme of things. Now you're trying to play mad scientist over 2-3 long irons. And if you're struggling to hit these, there are plenty of modern alternatives (7/9 wood, hybrids, utility woods, driving irons, max forgiveness cavity backs, etc.). 

[boggyman]

The guy found a way HE could practice more that he thought would benefit HIS game. Apparently it worked in his favor to a great degree. Yes, he’s made mistakes as we all have and do! Most look at it as a gimmick and never give it more thought than that! It does simplify things to some degree and that aspect once tried and applied is a possible benefit. It’s like any other product to me, be it 45+ inch drivers, 43+  inch 3 woods, Arm Lock putters, or whatever you can come up with. Golf is bound to have more “try this, your game will improve” products than any sport I’ve participated in. If they all worked, every golfer would be scratch! 🤣At the end of the day, it’s what works for YOU and that may or may not work for a playing partner of yours! I say, “ to each his own” and why do we as golfers  worry so much what the other golfer is or is not doing. SO many expert coaches on the range🤣🤣 Have a great day folks. On a side note, the weather is drunk here in West Tn! Hit ‘em straight!

[robbie91]

The loft discussion is getting very tedious and boring, can we police that instead of LIV references/discussions? At least they are interesting. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by robbie91

[Viper4225]

 

[boggyman]

3 hours ago, Viper4225 said:

 

What a head scratcher. Very interesting. The notch is for getting through the rough🤦‍♂️OR actually bending the irons. 

[SJL1216]

5 hours ago, Viper4225 said:

 

Interested to see what new LA Golf shaft they come up with 

[karstens_ghost]

7 hours ago, boggyman said:

What a head scratcher. Very interesting. The notch is for getting through the rough🤦‍♂️OR actually bending the irons. 

 

He's still talking bollocks. New year, same nonsense.

[RCGA]

I don't understand how a company can go through the trouble of making you a custom 1-of-1 putter and then slapping ugly lead tape all over it. 

 

He is very proud of his Ryder Cup umbrella😄

[Grouchykona]

Just me or did he seem a bit uncomfortable after revealing his fairway wood (cobra) and didn’t want to talk about it?