Putting using line on ball - how long did it take you to be comfortable?

[Long_Left]

On 4/21/2023 at 7:09 AM, Obee said:

For those of you who can't get used to the line (I was one of you!), you need to watch this video (that someone else posted above). Combine the video below with the line, and you WILL become a phenomenal short (inside ~8 feet?) putter.

You cannot use the line effectively if the line doesn't look properly aligned to you. You MUST figure that out. The good news? You CAN do it. I am EXTREMELY right-eye dominant. My head has to be WAY behind and slightly inside the ball for the line to look straight. That's crazy. It NEVER looked straight prior to me figuring this out.

Watch this video. Combine it with the line. Watch magic happen.

Can you tell I'm PASSIONATE about this??? 😉
 

 

What do you do in the case that there is no playable position where these things line up? Left handed, strong left eye dominant. I've gone back and forth with line or no line over the last 15ish years. I putt well when I'm able to trust the line, and miss everything right when doubt creeps in. I can roll the ball pure on the line in practice very well and am only on my 3rd putter in 23+ years, and the recent one is only 3 rounds in... I can see the line and get my putter square to it (video and coach confirmed), but if I can see the hole in my peripheral my brain goes into overdrive, from 10 feet the hole appears to be so far right of my intent it is disorienting. I've moved my setup all over the map and I'd need a putter with a lie angle in the 40s to get far enough away from it to look correct. Maybe I should take up hockey.

 

Line on the ball feels right of the intermediate target, intermediate target feels right of the hole. As a result, I miss a lot weak and left, a good putting stroke feels like a pull hook but there are days when I'm relaxed enough to commit to either the line or the intermediate with good success.  It's maddening. 

 

 

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Go watch David Orr videos on that.  Dive deep. He shows plainly how it works or is supposed to work.   Sbst is a myth really.  Although plenty have the feeling of doing it. And that’s fine. A lot take it outside though and come back inside because they feel that the hole off backswing is straight back.  I can’t explain it as well as he can. But the videos are all over YouTube.  There’s even one about an hour long showing the proof of what he’s saying on the fancy diagnostic machine ( forget the name ).  

In a nutshell, does he advocate using the arc in practice? 

[Obee]

1 hour ago, JDIL said:

Funny because the wide green line messes me up. I need a thin main center one to focus, and I know there is a thin black one inside, but the wide green band dominates for me and I don't aim it as well. But I do like triple track. So I just buy something like this

https://www.amazon.com/Vibit-Template-Alignment-Maximum-Accessories/dp/B096RZ8KDR

For me, the line helps. I have tried the Malaska tip several times, but the line never looks straight for me, because it changes.  I have ridiculously wide peripheral vision (family and friends trip out when I catch something 90 degrees to my sides, meanwhile my wife wouldn't see me if I'm doing cartwheels 45 degrees to her side). So where the "line" looks straight changes depending on where the pin/flag is. But I like the line because my aim is way better since using it again.

 

I abandoned the line and chose a spot a few inches in front of the ball to aim. Once reintroducing the line my aiming has improved big time. Now I just focus on, looking at the flag only for pace/speed, then looking down, and only looking at the line, trusting the line. Everyone is different.

 

I like the flag in as it helps me visualize speed better. But I should just have a mate tend the flag. I thought there was data that said pin in helps. I'll pull it if there is wind and the flag is pushed towards me.

 

 

The early studies on "flag in or out" were horribly flawed. The new (and much better) data is: Definitely out. Do some research, there's great stuff out there on it now. 🙂

[getitdaily]

3 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

 

The early studies on "flag in or out" were horribly flawed. The new (and much better) data is: Definitely out. Do some research, there's great stuff out there on it now. 🙂

1sr tournament when covid hit the fan in 2020...had to leave flagsticks in. 

 

I'm-2 thru 6, 30 footer on 7 for birdie. Perfect pace, center of the hole, I'm walking to get it out of the hole about 18 inches away. Hits the dead center of the flagstick and bounces 6 inches out. 

 

Grrr.

[Zitlow]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Exactly.  It changes.  
 

curious. What’s your hat size ? Big headed folks usually have eyes set farther apart. I always attributed the extreme peripheral vision i have to that. This probably makes the close up parallax effect worse for us. As in binocular vision is harder for short distances. My fix to that is to only use my strong eye.  (Close the other ) just like sighting a rifle.  

 

ever notice a difference on grey days ( overcast no sun ) vs sunny days ?  I don’t know if it’s light sensitivity or what.  I simply see and play better on grey days.  Sunshine and shadows are in fact very much worse for sight for me.  

This is Anna Taylor Joy, she's an actress but is also known as the best green reader at her club.

 

[tthomasgolfer605]

@Obee When you set your eyes over the ball does the line look left to you? That's what I'm seeing. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

55 minutes ago, Long_Left said:

What do you do in the case that there is no playable position where these things line up? Left handed, strong left eye dominant. I've gone back and forth with line or no line over the last 15ish years. I putt well when I'm able to trust the line, and miss everything right when doubt creeps in. I can roll the ball pure on the line in practice very well and am only on my 3rd putter in 23+ years, and the recent one is only 3 rounds in... I can see the line and get my putter square to it (video and coach confirmed), but if I can see the hole in my peripheral my brain goes into overdrive, from 10 feet the hole appears to be so far right of my intent it is disorienting. I've moved my setup all over the map and I'd need a putter with a lie angle in the 40s to get far enough away from it to look correct. Maybe I should take up hockey.

 

Line on the ball feels right of the intermediate target, intermediate target feels right of the hole. As a result, I miss a lot weak and left, a good putting stroke feels like a pull hook but there are days when I'm relaxed enough to commit to either the line or the intermediate with good success.  It's maddening. 

 

 

Have you tried setting your head well behind the ball? 

[MattM97]

On 4/21/2023 at 9:18 AM, Sean124 said:

The reason I switched to the line is because my alignment didn’t look right over the ball anyway. So when I used the line, my brain was immediately like “I trust the line is correct because I know my eyes are lying.”

 

I’ve seen the videos about adjusting your setup so your eyes see things better, but I never saw the point. I just get comfortable over the ball and trust the line. 
 

Maybe I’m weird after reading Obee’s post, but it works for me. 

 

On 4/21/2023 at 9:23 AM, Sean124 said:

The funny thing is I’m the exact opposite. Once I get over the ball, my mind says “the alignment work is already done, so all you have to worry about is the speed.”

 

This is me I set up my putt behind the ball with the line towards the hole then set up to the line and putt. I know it's more correct this way than readjusting while over the ball. I've even tried to adjust to proper line over the ball but I become so open it's like I'm taking a slap shot. 

[Barfolomew]

Line on ball dont work for me..... I adjust my line while over the ball just before I hit it, its a feel thing.  Ive tried to use the line but prereading the line before standing over the ball doesn't dial in the correct line 100% for me.... only gives an idea

 

Trust..... its a thing of trust that Ive learned to let my instincts take over.  I used to read putts from behind and think its to this spot then when standing over the ball I would feel a little different then learned to trust it

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

In a nutshell, does he advocate using the arc in practice? 

“ the arc “ or “ an arc “. Not trying to be smart. The arc sounds like a device ? If it is he’s never mentioned it to me. But yes. An arc he does. And explains it in detail as to how the body and the club works.  It’s info that can’t hurt anyone.  
 

couple quick samples.  Now you’ll have to parse out the nuggets.  The host talks too much etc but the gold is in there.  Then the last video.  This is if you’re technically minded like I am.  In that long video is the mechanical explanation of what the arms do in the proper and the bad stroke as measured by machine .  You can build a stroke from these 3 videos. In my opinion.  
.

 

 
 

 

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, Zitlow said:

This is Anna Taylor Joy, she's an actress but is also known as the best green reader at her club.

 

Well that shoots the theory that added peripheral vision hurts binocular vision up close.    I’d guess and say she can see her own  ear wax !😜.   So if she is a great green reader , there goes that theory ! 

[JDIL]

3 hours ago, Obee said:

 

 

The early studies on "flag in or out" were horribly flawed. The new (and much better) data is: Definitely out. Do some research, there's great stuff out there on it now. 🙂

May very well be true. I guess I need someone to tend the flag since it helps me before the putt 😁

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Obee said:

The early studies on "flag in or out" were horribly flawed. The new (and much better) data is: Definitely out. Do some research, there's great stuff out there on it now. 🙂

 

Hmmmm. I'll just say this:

• When your distance control is going to be within about 3' or so… take it out, sure. At those speeds, it'll basically only hurt.
• The rest of the time, leave it in. It'll help more than it will hurt.

[Obee]

32 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Hmmmm. I'll just say this:

• When your distance control is going to be within about 3' or so… take it out, sure. At those speeds, it'll basically only hurt.
• The rest of the time, leave it in. It'll help more than it will hurt.

That’s why I take it out all the time… 😉

Edited April 25, 2023 by Obee

[Obee]

On 4/22/2023 at 7:33 AM, Cliffy2020 said:

I thought so too until I actually started measuring it .

 

 

 

You cut across. 
 

Indulge me, please. Putt from a closed stance for a while. See what happens…

[getitdaily]

14 hours ago, bladehunter said:

“ the arc “ or “ an arc “. Not trying to be smart. The arc sounds like a device ? If it is he’s never mentioned it to me. But yes. An arc he does. And explains it in detail as to how the body and the club works.  It’s info that can’t hurt anyone.  
 

couple quick samples.  Now you’ll have to parse out the nuggets.  The host talks too much etc but the gold is in there.  Then the last video.  This is if you’re technically minded like I am.  In that long video is the mechanical explanation of what the arms do in the proper and the bad stroke as measured by machine .  You can build a stroke from these 3 videos. In my opinion.  
.

 

 
 

 

While the French fry and pizza analogy was weird, and Orr is generally a quirky dude, I LOVE the "follow the shaft plane" technique. I have always tried to "swing the grip". And while it tends to work well, it doesn't always produce the desired thru stroke path I want...I tend to pull my hands left. Got out this morning for an hour and the shaft plane visual was perfect. 

[bladehunter]

3 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

While the French fry and pizza analogy was weird, and Orr is generally a quirky dude, I LOVE the "follow the shaft plane" technique. I have always tried to "swing the grip". And while it tends to work well, it doesn't always produce the desired thru stroke path I want...I tend to pull my hands left. Got out this morning for an hour and the shaft plane visual was perfect. 

Lol.  He is no doubt. But so am I.  Which is probably why the analogy works perfect for me.  I’m just extremely visual learner. Words don’t do much until I translate into a picture. So his pictures just shortcut the whole deal for me.  And because my mind thinks of only the club head path , not hands and not shaft plane , so the pizza crust is perfect visual if you remember it’s laid down with the point of the pizza slice toward your feet. The clubhead follows the outside of the crust ( the arc ).  And is controlled basically by the movement of the trail wrist.     Think tigers 1 hand drill.  

[getitdaily]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

Lol.  He is no doubt. But so am I.  Which is probably why the analogy works perfect for me.  I’m just extremely visual learner. Words don’t do much until I translate into a picture. So his pictures just shortcut the whole deal for me.  And because my mind thinks of only the club head path , not hands and not shaft plane , so the pizza crust is perfect visual if you remember it’s laid down with the point of the pizza slice toward your feet. The clubhead follows the outside of the crust ( the arc ).  And is controlled basically by the movement of the trail wrist.     Think tigers 1 hand drill.  

Yeah that gets too complicated for me. The shaft plane visual was simple and perfect for me. Outside that, the other video you linked added another element...the right hand. Knowing the right hand/arm engagement in transition generally influences how much of a pull a better putter has, I was able to find the right combo of hand control and I feel I'll be able to adjust on the fly now...pulling putts, less right hand. Pushing putts, more right hand.

 

This morning was a really good feedback session.

 

On the topic of line on the ball...gonna be a while before I'm comfortable. 

[Obee]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

While the French fry and pizza analogy was weird, and Orr is generally a quirky dude, I LOVE the "follow the shaft plane" technique. I have always tried to "swing the grip". And while it tends to work well, it doesn't always produce the desired thru stroke path I want...I tend to pull my hands left. Got out this morning for an hour and the shaft plane visual was perfect. 

 

You are someone else who might greatly benefit from putting from a CLOSED stance. I have helped many golfers who struggle with a leftward path due to an "open" bias of their shoulders (I was one of them).

Very strong opinion here that if shoulders are OPEN and you struggle with putting, then that is actually the main culprit. Combine closing the stance (and the shoulders will follow) with the line and getting your head in the right place so that straight looks straight, and you will be on the road to awesome, my friend. 🙂

I helped the PGA Director of Golf with that very concept several years ago and he thanks me every time he sees me.

[Cliffy2020]

1 hour ago, Obee said:

You cut across. 
 

Indulge me, please. Putt from a closed stance for a while. See what happens…

Sorry, that video was from 2020 when I was only about a quarter mile down the rabbit hole 😜

 

Ill spare everybody all the details at the risk of taking over & filling this page of the thread.

[getitdaily]

1 minute ago, Obee said:

 

You are someone else who might greatly benefit from putting from a CLOSED stance. I have helped many golfers who struggle with a leftward path due to an "open" bias of their shoulders (I was one of them).

Very strong opinion here that if shoulders are OPEN and you struggle with putting, then that is actually the main culprit. Combine closing the stance (and the shoulders will follow) with the line and getting your head in the right place so that straight looks straight, and you will be on the road to awesome, my friend. 🙂

I helped the PGA Director of Golf with that very concept several years ago and he thanks me every time he sees me.

I don't disagree. My path is definitely tied to my shoulder rotation. I have tried the closed stance with mixed results. I won't rule it out, but this morning's practice session using "track the shaft plane" was very big for me. My biggest issue is backswing path. I'm out to in. Imagining the shaft plane at address extending back basically put me into a much more neutral or slightly inside backswing. 

 

And guess what else happened...while on a meaningless call this morning I grabbed my putter and used the line on the ball. Focused on tracking the shaft and I didn't pull a single putt using the line on the ball. So the trust in using the line could very well build if this "tracking the shaft plane" visual sticks...very promising. 

[Cliffy2020]

3 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

You are someone else who might greatly benefit from putting from a CLOSED stance. I have helped many golfers who struggle with a leftward path due to an "open" bias of their shoulders (I was one of them).

Very strong opinion here that if shoulders are OPEN and you struggle with putting, then that is actually the main culprit. Combine closing the stance (and the shoulders will follow) with the line and getting your head in the right place so that straight looks straight, and you will be on the road to awesome, my friend. 🙂

I helped the PGA Director of Golf with that very concept several years ago and he thanks me every time he sees me.

There’s the conundrum for me.  I see the line better with an open stance.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a bad putter but I sure don’t putt nearly as well as my ball striking would suggest.  So relative to that as bladehunter and getitdaily describe, we don’t putt as well as we think we should.

 

Ill definitely give a closed stance a try.  It can’t hurt and practice is free!

[Obee]

28 minutes ago, Cliffy2020 said:

Sorry, that video was from 2020 when I was only about a quarter mile down the rabbit hole 😜

 

Ill spare everybody all the details at the risk of taking over & filling this page of the thread.

No way!! Post away, sir!!!

[Obee]

23 minutes ago, Cliffy2020 said:

There’s the conundrum for me.  I see the line better with an open stance.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a bad putter but I sure don’t putt nearly as well as my ball striking would suggest.  So relative to that as bladehunter and getitdaily describe, we don’t putt as well as we think we should.

 

Ill definitely give a closed stance a try.  It can’t hurt and practice is free!

I see the line much better from an open stance. I combined it closed stance with a forward ball position and voilà!!

[Cliffy2020]

Just now, Obee said:

I see the line much better from an open stance. I combined it closed stance with a forward ball position and voilà!!

How closed are we talkin’?  A big toe, half a shoe, full shoe?

[Soloman1]

6 minutes ago, Cliffy2020 said:

How closed are we talkin’?  A big toe, half a shoe, full shoe?

 

First, you have to measure your toe length to foot length ratio, then  input the measurements into a formula with your path variable.

 

It’s 1/2 the ratio x the cosine of the path divided by 0.17. This was proven to be accurate on GEARS.

 

Or, you can try different amounts and see what works best.

[getitdaily]

6 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

First, you have to measure your toe length to foot length ratio, then  input the measurements into a formula with your path variable.

 

It’s 1/2 the ratio x the cosine of the path divided by 0.17. This was proven to be accurate on GEARS.

 

Or, you can try different amounts and see what works best.

👏

[Cliffy2020]

27 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

First, you have to measure your toe length to foot length ratio, then  input the measurements into a formula with your path variable.

 

It’s 1/2 the ratio x the cosine of the path divided by 0.17. This was proven to be accurate on GEARS.

 

Or, you can try different amounts and see what works best.

I was just curious what actually worked for the guy it actually worked for, but I totally walked right into that one.  Tee’d that one up high on a wide open par-5 for ya.

 

Guess I can delete the PM I was drafting Obee about his height, weight, wrist-to-floor, glove size and eyeball measurements.  Lol

[getitdaily]

7 minutes ago, Cliffy2020 said:

I was just curious what actually worked for the guy it actually worked for, but I totally walked right into that one.  Tee’d that one up high on a wide open par-5 for ya.

 

Guess I can delete the PM I was drafting Obee about his height, weight, wrist-to-floor, glove size and eyeball measurements.  Lol

Send that PM. But put "hey big boy" in the subject line...

[Long_Left]

20 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Have you tried setting your head well behind the ball? 

I feel like I have "explored the space" pretty thoroughly and I can get close, but it never "clicks." Oddly enough, if there is a chalk line down I feel like everything lines up great, I think it may be the intermediate target that is throwing me off.