Recent DQ due to LM stickers on a driver

[MikekiM]

Heard about a local kid that was DQ'd recently due to having those launch monitor stickers on the face of their driver. 

I spoke with the tour director and he said that if it was brought up by a player, they'd enforce the rule. But unless it's brought up they aren't out actively looking for it

I know these are not legal in tournament play, is this something your kid would call out on another kid?  Or do you think it's the parents calling the kids out?

 

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[Kcct82]

We leave our stickers on. Too expensive to replace all the time. We have not had a problem so far, but wouldn’t be surprised to be DQ’ed sooner or later. Keep in mind my kid is only 10, so none of the tournaments matter. We probably wouldn’t head into an AJGA event with them on. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

17 hours ago, MikekiM said:

Heard about a local kid that was DQ'd recently due to having those launch monitor stickers on the face of their driver. 

I spoke with the tour director and he said that if it was brought up by a player, they'd enforce the rule. But unless it's brought up they aren't out actively looking for it

I know these are not legal in tournament play, is this something your kid would call out on another kid?  Or do you think it's the parents calling the kids out?

 

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Depends on the kids and parents.

 

I know my son wouldn't call anyone out until it become so apparent. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

50 minutes ago, flagolf483 said:

If you are a parent or playing partner and didn't give warning and then brought it up to an official to get a DQ you are a jerk.   Trying to DQ a kid for something like this is unethical in my book.   

 

We are not talking about blatant cheating that deserves a DQ here.

 

 

Oh no its cheating.  The reason there is a rule for it and thus the DQ.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

When we had our HMT.  Kids stripped off the stickers each time.  Plus it was a good reset to clean the clubs and apply a new set. We never put stickers on each club.  Usually a 60, PW, 7, 3 Wood and Driver.

[sui generis]

Just now, flagolf483 said:

 

The stickers I am thinking do not effect performance. It's really just there for the LM  to pick up the club face.   To me that isn't cheating it most likely just an oversight from a player or parent who doesn't know the rule.

 

DQ are for kids who do something that gives them an unfair advantage or just outright lies.

 

 

 

You don't get to choose which Rules you wish to follow and which ones you don't.

[Pepperturbo]

19 hours ago, MikekiM said:

is this something your kid would call out on another kid?  Or do you think it's the parents calling the kids out?

When it comes to tournaments, if an infraction is observed by a player, it's his or her responsibility to inform tournament leadership.  It surely is NOT the parent's responsibly, but too many stick their noses where it doesn't belong.

[Abh159]

5 minutes ago, flagolf483 said:

DQ are for kids who do something that gives them an unfair advantage or just outright lies.

 

I don't agree with this at all, and I'm not sure many others will either...

 

So if a kid (or an adult) accidentally signs for a lower score then nothing happens, but if they do it on purpose only then should they be DQ'd??? No, you broke a rule (intentional or not) and now you have to face the consequences. It's funny how golf imitates real life.

 

The stickers thing is a crappy situation, but the rules are the rules. If nothing else it's a good learning experince.

[DFS PFD]

Rules are the rules, they all need to be followed unconditionally. It's a slippery slope if we start making arbitrary exceptions for things that seem "unfair" or "doesn't really give an advantage".

Edited May 17, 2023 by DFS PFD

[sui generis]

34 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

When it comes to tournaments, if an infraction is observed by a player, it's his or her responsibility to inform tournament leadership.  It surely is NOT the parent's responsibly, but too many stick their noses where it doesn't belong.

 

I've been a referee for quite a few years and I want to know what's going on out there. In stroke play, players are directed by R20.1 to "protect the field." Spectators are often a reliable source of information, too. If a parent comes to me with a complaint, I will most certainly look into it in exactly the same way as if a player brought me the same complaint.

[Pepperturbo]

6 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

I've been a referee for quite a few years and I want to know what's going on out there. In stroke play, players are directed by R20.1 to "protect the field." Spectators are often a reliable source of information, too. If a parent comes to me with a complaint, I will most certainly look into it in exactly the same way as if a player brought me the same complaint.

I understand your thinking.  We all want the field protected against...  But not all spectators have honorable intentions, reason I am against gallery outsiders, TV viewers calling in, and parents sticking their noses where it doesn't belong.  As well, when it's a parent, their motive is to protect their child, not so much the rest of the field.  I've seen that in action too, having a niece playing competitive regional events in the southeast.  Her parents (which are not golfers) got too involved, nearly embarrassing their kid.  She asked me to speak to her parents, so I did, they listened and stopped. 

 

It's the player's responsibility to protect the field.  Then again, I am a purist when it comes to golf, rules and sports, and wannabe side liners influencing the outcome.

[TroyB123]

Can those launch monitor companies not their dots approved or something for not putting the clubs out of compliance?   I would never say anything, and doubt my kid would notice, but if kids are getting DQd for it, the all probably should be.   I think I'd avoid any launch monitor requiring them for that risk.

[TroyB123]

A more interesting question might be, what would you do if your son just shot a good tournament round and was walking off 19 and tells you he inadvertently left his sticker on?  I guess lean between telling him to dq himself or say it’s his call. I don’t have an issue with the kid calling out someone else if they’d dq themselves for the same thing.  

[golfortennis]

Getting the "rules are rules, gotta follow them" out of the way, can someone tell me what the issue with the stickers are?  I'm thinking lead tape is ok, what is wrong with the stickers?

 

Genuine question.  I really don't know.

 

The bigger question is: does this fall above or below the "call a penalty on the guy who picked up the tee from the tee box and is thus not using his own equipment" thing on the d-bag scale?

[Movingday]

[sui generis]

1 hour ago, golfortennis said:

Getting the "rules are rules, gotta follow them" out of the way, can someone tell me what the issue with the stickers are?  I'm thinking lead tape is ok, what is wrong with the stickers?

 

Genuine question.  I really don't know.

 

The bigger question is: does this fall above or below the "call a penalty on the guy who picked up the tee from the tee box and is thus not using his own equipment" thing on the d-bag scale?

 

1) External attachments to the clubface are not permitted under Part 2, Section 1a of the Equipment Rules.

 

2) What makes you think that a player may not borrow a tee from another player or use a discarded tee?

[golfortennis]

10 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

1) External attachments to the clubface are not permitted under Part 2, Section 1a of the Equipment Rules.

 

2) What makes you think that a player may not borrow a tee from another player or use a discarded tee?

 

1) Oh these are on the clubface.  Ok.  I thought they were on the clubhead.  Yes, that makes sense.  Thanks.  And thus the "question" I asked is null and void.

 

2)I know it's fine.  But it's been the d-bag go to that if a guy picks up a broken tee, they try to call a penalty on them for using "equipment that is not their own."  I know at least three people who have had this happen to them in a tournament.  They were fine with committees, but rattled at the thought they may have committed a violation.

[sui generis]

33 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

rattled at the thought they may have committed a violation.

 

We're good. 🙂

 

One of the unexpected consequences of knowing the Rules (and more importantly, where to find it) is that we are free from that agony.

[Soloman1]

The rules are pieces of the jigsaw puzzle of golf.

 

No attachments to the face of the club is a pretty fundamental rule.

 

If you’re spending five figures for a launch monitor for a ten-year old (who will likely quit playing in high school), spending some time going over the fundamental rules doesn’t seem unreasonable.

 

Learning the decisions on the rules of golf is another matter. Know the fundamentals and ask for help if you’re unsure about an unusual circumstance.

 

The rules are free, and a small booklet, not the size of a calculus textbook. The Decisions is bigger and can be good training if your child dreams of being a tax accountant.

 

You rules officials take classes because there are unusual circumstances. That’s why you’re there and are doing the golf god’s work.

 

And yet, parents and kids see veteran tour pros on TV needing a rules official to help them take a drop from a cart path. That can’t be helping.

[RobS]

My son wouldn't likely notice and might not even be aware of that the dots are a rules violation.  That aside, he wouldn't bring that to a rules officials.  He'd probably mention it to the player and leave it up to them.  To answer the other question, my son would DQ himself if he became aware of his own infraction.  I'd like to say it's because he righteous but I think it's largely driven by the fact that a rules misstep, however innocent it may be, can quickly attach a scarlet letter to a player.

[Soloman1]

GC3’d and Quad’s are aplenty.

[Soloman1]

1 hour ago, Jdawg1789 said:

This statement is completely false and reeks of misinformation.

 

GC3’s and Quads are aplenty. Gotta check out those spin numbers for the ten-year olds.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

35 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

GC3’s and Quads are aplenty. Gotta check out those spin numbers for the ten-year olds.

As the great poet says. "Haters gonna Hate!" 😉

 

Have a GC2 and its been great for family fun during the winter.

[kekoa]

Would I call a kid out on it?  No.  If my son is privy enough to know the rules and calls the kid out then so be it.

 

Are LM stickers worthy of a DQ?  Yes, if the kid is in violation----Period!!

[golfortennis]

What I would hope a kid would do is spot it before they even tee off, and let them know so they can take it off and avoid the penalty.

 

Of course I tell everyone to check they have 14 clubs before the first tee so no one gets with too many, I get accused of "counting clubs", so.....no good deed.

 

I think I know the answer to this one, but wanted to confirm.  Is it a penalty if the stickers are on when the round begins, or only once you use the club in that condition?  Assuming the latter, but wasn't sure.

[RmoorePE]

Month ago daughter played an event, RO at starting tent said "Count your clubs and make sure you don't have any launch monitor stickers on the faces". So this must be a bit more common. My daughter asked me after "What would the stickers even do?" I told her that you could do other stuff to the club face that would help, the stickers just fall into the rule by proxy. Then I got to tell her about my high school golf days, and Vaseline on driver faces, green Lifesavers under balls, and other dirty tricks that we always talked about, but no one had the guts to try.

 

We have a Full Swing Kit which is radar, it doesn't need anything special with stickers, or balls, which is a part of the reason I bought it.

[QEGolfer]

18 hours ago, Jdawg1789 said:

Mevo is $500.00 and a lot of kids have them or something similar in that price range that call for those dots.  This statement is completely false and reeks of misinformation.

The dots supplied with a Mevo or other radar devices is for the ball, spin accuracy, not for the club. 

 

Club face stickers are for the optical LMs.

[Noles]

On 5/17/2023 at 2:26 PM, sui generis said:

 

You don't get to choose which Rules you wish to follow and which ones you don't.

This.  End thread

[cardia10]

On 5/17/2023 at 2:26 PM, sui generis said:

 

You don't get to choose which Rules you wish to follow and which ones you don't.

Yeah, we can be like the USGA and create rules that affect the .001% of pro golfers or no one in particular. A rule that affects Zero people should not be a rule. I get the intent, but what is the intent of DQing a kid for a reflective dot on the face that doesn't affect the swing or ball? Just saying it is a rule is fine, but why is it a rule? When the rule was put in the book, was launch monitors even considered? We keep adding layers to the rules, but a better start may be removing the worthless ones first and making the game a little more player friendly.

Edited May 22, 2023 by cardia10

[sui generis]

2 hours ago, cardia10 said:

Yeah, we can be like the USGA and create rules that affect the .001% of pro golfers or no one in particular. A rule that affects Zero people should not be a rule. I get the intent, but what is the intent of DQing a kid for a reflective dot on the face that doesn't affect the swing or ball? Just saying it is a rule is fine, but why is it a rule? When the rule was put in the book, was launch monitors even considered? We keep adding layers to the rules, but a better start may be removing the worthless ones first and making the game a little more player friendly.

 

You rail against Rules which affect zero people . . . I challenge you to come up with one.

 

Secondly, how easy is it to follow this one from the Equipment Rues FAQ section? 

 

Can I attach a piece of tape to my clubface? 

No, external attachments to the clubface are not permitted under Part 2, Section 1a of the Equipment Rules.

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/equipment-standards/equipment-faq-25852.html#6

 

If you explained that to a 9 year old, would they understand what they could not do?