Do golfers really understand the trade-off when playing jacked irons?

[msuswing]

There are tradeoffs just like there are tradeoffs between blades and modern players irons. Those tradeoffs are so well understood that even most pros don't play blades. 

 

Lessons and working on your swing are great, they are the foundation. Changing your swing also takes a long time in most cases. If you're working on getting to a better impact position to decrease your launch angle, lets say it takes you 2 years to really get it to where you want it. Now, you can do that and suffer through those 2 years with a players iron. You're probably going to hit one 7i at a proper launch angle and it go 175, you're going to hit others with a 3 degree higher launch that goes 145. It isn’t about hitting it in the screws, if your launch angle is too high the high launch and high spin = balloon and short. Or, you can play a GI or Players Distance iron where that delta looks more like 10 yards instead of 30. Which one do you think is more enjoyable? 

 

Maybe you've never been in a long rut of struggling with a change, or the exact situation I just outlined. I have. Let me tell you, doing it with irons meant for a sub 5 handicap was absolutely soul crushing. You leave the course/range 90% of the time wanting to give up and quit the game. Nobody should have to go through that, especially when clubs that make those misses significantly less painful exist. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by msuswing

[mosesgolf]

I tried Titleist 718 AP1s and got rid of them PRONTO.  Took me 1 round.   Kept forgetting about the juiced lofts and kept flying greens especially downwind shots.  Never have I cursed  and said so many WTH's to myself during a round.  

[COL_B]

50 minutes ago, msuswing said:

There are tradeoffs just like there are tradeoffs between blades and modern players irons. Those tradeoffs are so well understood that even most pros don't play blades. 

 

Lessons and working on your swing are great, they are the foundation. Changing your swing also takes a long time in most cases. If you're working on getting to a better impact position to decrease your launch angle, lets say it takes you 2 years to really get it to where you want it. Now, you can do that and suffer through those 2 years with a players iron. You're probably going to hit one 7i at a proper launch angle and it go 175, you're going to hit others with a 3 degree higher launch that goes 145. It isn’t about hitting it in the screws, if your launch angle is too high the high launch and high spin = balloon and short. Or, you can play a GI or Players Distance iron where that delta looks more like 10 yards instead of 30. Which one do you think is more enjoyable? 

 

Maybe you've never been in a long rut of struggling with a change, or the exact situation I just outlined. I have. Let me tell you, doing it with irons meant for a sub 5 handicap was absolutely soul crushing. You leave the course/range 90% of the time wanting to give up and quit the game. Nobody should have to go through that, especially when clubs that make those misses significantly less painful exist. 

As someone who switches back & forth pretty frequently, and is not a sub-5, It is hard to visualize the difference difference in forgiveness & dispersion between a "player's iron" and a blade being "soul crushing".  Your point on the pros is valid -- players irons way outnumber blades for a reason.

 

But few players irons have seriously "jacked" lofts. T100S maybe. Most players irons are ~2* stronger than comparable blades. You don't see 40* pitching wedges and 28* 7 irons in the "players" category. 

 

At the bottom you are talking about Players Distance and GI irons, which are a different story in my book. If you are reasonably good ball striker, you are likely to find a LOT more distance dispersion on a strong lofted, spring face, hollow distance/GI iron than a forged cavity back player's iron.

 

Having three similar, reasonably well shots delivering 20 yards difference, and missing greens long, is more frustrating and common for me with GI irons than seeing 30 yards difference with blades or CBs.

 

But every player is different.

 

[Kid Frisco]

Just shot a 78 this afternoon and I thought about this thread.  My index is down to 7.5 from 13 over the last year since I got my PXG 0211 DCs and then Gen4 XPs with ‘jacked’ lofts.  The trade off from moving on from my Maltby TS1 and DBM with higher lofts is lower scores and the lowest my index has ever been. Done with this nonsense discussion.

[tatertot]

1 hour ago, mosesgolf said:

I tried Titleist 718 AP1s and got rid of them PRONTO.  Took me 1 round.   Kept forgetting about the juiced lofts and kept flying greens especially downwind shots.  Never have I cursed  and said so many WTH's to myself during a round.  

Lofts:

 

Ping G425

6 iron: 26.5

7 iron: 30

8 iron: 34.5

9 iron: 39.5

PW: 44.5

 

Titleist 718 AP 1:

6 iron: 27

7 iron: 30

8 iron: 34

9 iron: 38

PW: 43

 

Yeah ... with those kind of "jacked" lofts over your normal irons, I can see why you'd be "flying" greens and cursing up a storm, especially after 1 round.

 

I love this place.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by tatertot

[mosesgolf]

29 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Lofts:

 

Ping G425

6 iron: 26.5

7 iron: 30

8 iron: 34.5

9 iron: 39.5

PW: 44.5

 

Titleist 718 AP 1:

6 iron: 27

7 iron: 30

8 iron: 34

9 iron: 38

PW: 43

 

Yeah ... with those kind of "jacked" lofts over your normal irons, I can see why you'd be "flying" greens and cursing up a storm, especially after 1 round.

 

I love this place.

 

 

Prior to the AP1s were AP2s.  I love this place too.  😁  

[BiggErn]

Somebody start a new thread…”Do golfers really understand there’s no trade off to playing jacked irons?”. 

[tatertot]

25 minutes ago, mosesgolf said:

Prior to the AP1s were AP2s.  I love this place too.  😁  

So naturally, you bought clubs with lofts nearly identical to the ones you hated. Proves the point it's not all about the lofts. Thanks!

[agood3putt]

[MountainKing]

19 hours ago, ldchristopher said:

This thread title is hilarious. Tell me you’re a Boomer without telling me you’re a Boomer. “I’m 75 years old…” Buddy, I already figured that out. 

 

I can't believe this is a 10 page debate.  If you like strong lofts, play  them, if you don't then adjust your clubs. Of all the things you could worry about, why worry about something that has zero impact on you.   You having a 41* PW has zero impact on my game or what I'm doing.

[golfday]

IMO there isn't really a tradeoff. If you play clubs with strong lofts and longer shafts you just end up carrying one more "wedge" and one less long iron.

 

There are trade-offs between the style of iron (blade vs players cavity vs gi vs sgi), but it's not the jacked lofts that's causing the tradeoffs. It's the weighting and other design features. Most recreational golfers will fair better farther on the GI spectrum in regards to tradeoffs, but it usually doesn't affect scores that much. Improving their swing to tighten their shot dispersion and improving their short games will generally have a bigger affect. 

[NoTalentLefty]

16 hours ago, Kid Frisco said:

Just shot a 78 this afternoon and I thought about this thread.  My index is down to 7.5 from 13 over the last year since I got my PXG 0211 DCs and then Gen4 XPs with ‘jacked’ lofts.  The trade off from moving on from my Maltby TS1 and DBM with higher lofts is lower scores and the lowest my index has ever been. Done with this nonsense discussion.

Well said.

[NoTalentLefty]

21 hours ago, ldchristopher said:

This thread title is hilarious. Tell me you’re a Boomer without telling me you’re a Boomer. “I’m 75 years old…” Buddy, I already figured that out. 

I’m a boomer, 64, and agree with you.