Why the ______ is only one brand making a mini driver?

[bladehunter]

8 minutes ago, Drivingrangehero said:

Absolutely, I used a Japanese model head that was NOS from around 2006 that is 11° and 380cc. It cost me around $37 for the head, I already had a driver shaft, so I had it cut to play 42.5” and added a new grip, and added liquid tungsten to get the head weight from 200g to 225g, the whole thing barely cost more that $60
 

I am better off the tee with a driver than a 3W, so I wanted this to fill my 3W spot and it has exceeded my expectations. 
 

My first choice was to pick up an old Cleveland Launcher 330-400cc head or a Cobra 350-380cc head for nostalgia reasons, but I found that the Japanese market has many great smaller headed drivers that are deep faced and aesthetically pleasing. 
 

Another great option for the sub 460cc head that is very deep faced, aesthetically appealing, adjustable and has a very heavy weight  head to begin with, is an older Model Srixon Z 745 There were a few Tour issue ones that were bonded, but I haven’t seen any bonded ones for some time now. (Japanese market had a Z 945 that is bonded)

 

i have hit the SLDR mini (owned one briefly) the TM OO and the TM 300 mini, I feel that my homemade one is far superior to all three, and at a fraction of the cost. 

Shhhh.  Don’t tell them about the Z745 😂.   Best feeling driver I’ve ever hit 

[me05501]

Mini drivers cannibalize sales of drivers and fairway woods the same way driving irons cannibalize the sales of hybrids. There's not a natural spot in the bag for this product so when you add one you're squeezing out something else. 

 

The last couple of versions reminded a lot of players that a 44" driver with a reasonable head volume is more playable than the modern 460CC 45.5" driver and gives up very little in terms of AVERAGE distance. When it comes to MAXIMUM distance the longer clubs have an advantage. 

 

TM has apparently decided they can offer mini drivers in limited numbers and cut mostly into their competitors' sales instead of their own. Because they're relatively scarce they can get a good price point for them and there won't be enough of them on the used market to hurt new driver sales in a year or two. It's a low-risk proposition. 

 

If they really pushed the Mini hard and made it widely available there's a good chance it would start to impact their profits from the Stealth line. 

 

The last thing any of the big OEM's want is to turn the conversation away from the profitable path they've plowed over the last 25 years. Apparently the other OEM's have determined it's not worth the risk or not profitable enough to bother. 

[SSturm24]

Such a niche club.  The number of people looking for a driver that will go less distance is probably few and far between.

[NRJyzr]

19 hours ago, jda said:

Because you can buy a used driver from years ago and do the same thing with a new grip.  I was not a huge fan of the Burner drivers that this new TM was based on, but if you get one you can have nearly the same results for $300-400 cheaper.  Some of the Clevelands and Titleist ones were wonderful and probably 90% of what is out today if you get the setup right since they are not adjustable... and you can find the center.

 

This can satisfy nearly anybody who has this inclination.

 

Older drivers won't do the job the way the OO, 300 Mini, and BRNR can.  Aside from the obvious adjustability thing (which to me is more about shaft replacement than actual loft/face angle changes), the older drivers were designed using prior practices regarding CG placement. 

 

In days of yore, for higher speed players, they would move the CG higher to help those players.  We now know this to be the worst thing to do.  The modern minis are designed with a low CG to keep spin down.

 

That's the key.

 

[hoselrocker]

Personally I'm good with the current situation. I went through the original one, and have settled on the 300 which is permanently in the bag. Let all the other lemmings chase the new 460 drivers where the manufactures slap on a new coat of paint and suck them in to new distance, accuracy blah blah. I'd rather be in the fairway than playing three from the tee.

The mini has changed the game for me, so I don't want every numpty gaming one. 

[me05501]

45 minutes ago, hoselrocker said:

Personally I'm good with the current situation. I went through the original one, and have settled on the 300 which is permanently in the bag. Let all the other lemmings chase the new 460 drivers where the manufactures slap on a new coat of paint and suck them in to new distance, accuracy blah blah. I'd rather be in the fairway than playing three from the tee.

The mini has changed the game for me, so I don't want every numpty gaming one. 

 

I have a golf buddy who recently dropped his fitted Callaway driver and committed to his TM300 Mini. He absolutely centers that thing every time and gets plenty of distance. His scores have been dropping lately. His driver was longer but he missed a lot of fairways. 

[jda]

Don't worry about what the pros use.  Most of them use what they get paid to use.  Period.

 

I am just saying that a Titleist 973 with a 757 shaft will meet this need for most people with a new grip... and about $40-50.  Once they figure out that they don't want to hit it, then they save many hundred dollars.  If they can hit in the center, then they know that it can do most of what their new driver can do for an amateur.  They can have their fun experiment and feel like they are retro.

 

I hit a TM System 2 Midsize 10.5 last year and was getting like 280-290 out of it, but man was it nasty with even a tiny mishit.  Those old clubs still go with good shafts.

 

If you want to argue that this will make you better, then I totally agree.  I also think that being able to hit a 3 iron from 220+ and hold a green or learning how to strike blades in the middle can make you better, but many people don't want to be better... they just want to score better.

[MtlJeff]

Personally i think mini drivers are a fad. There's really not much reason for their existence. 

 

a 13 degree 3 wood can do 98% of what a mini driver can and is more versatile. 

 

And if that 98% of what the 13 degree 3 wood can do isn't good enough for you---buy a 45 inch driver and just practice, practice, practice. It will almost certainly be better than a mini driver. 

[thigos]

On 6/5/2023 at 1:00 AM, MoeMoe said:

Because it's a gimmick. Pros not using them.

 

There are a handful who have them that I know of:  Adam Scott, Fleetwood, Bryson.

 

I love mine.  Mostly a tee club for my home track but easy enough off the deck too.

[Quadra]

I am 80 years old. And I really like my Acer mini thriver. 13° loft. Plays very well from the tee and from the fairway.

[Cmiles]

On 6/4/2023 at 12:14 PM, getitdaily said:

Because you an 3 other people want it...

Haha truth

[mvvraz]

Mini Drivers are really awkward when you have a limitation for number of clubs in the bag. They go a little further than a 3 wood, and if you can't hit a driver well, chances are you aren't going to be smoking a mini driver off the deck 

 

In the meantime, drivers are becoming more and more forgiving, with HD (draw-biased drivers) becoming very common, which means that fewer and fewer players are unable to hit their driver well

 

The BRNR is an awesome driver to keep in your bag for non-competition rounds, and I think I might get one myself for the lols, but I don't really see what its practical use is if you're trying to min-max

 

 

[R.Patrick]

I think they are good when playing a half set..but thats about it.

I had the 300 and liked it for a while but my current driver cut to 44-1/2” works much better.

[mbb86]

They are a very, very niche club. Like, the only real reason they would be useful is if you somehow generate enough ball speed to hit it off the turf like a 3 wood (which is a stretch for anyone with driver BS  <160mph) and have a much easier time turning the small head over vs conventional 460cc. There are people with slower ball speeds that might *think* they are benefitting from a mini driver but in reality they are probably benefitting from slightly higher loft and a shorter shaft, moreso than the mini driver itself. 

 

So if I played a very particular course where I needed to hit lots of 290y baby draws? Yes I'd own one. But man that's a pretty niche club considering a 4w will go 270 with the same shot shape and is likely more versatile off the deck. 

 

[Davidv]

Money maker for people who think they need a mini driver. If there was a real need then obviously more manufacturers would jump in the money game. Bottom line complete useless club for mostly every sane thinking player.

[forrester_fire]

It might be because they don't sell in great numbers?  Much like lefty irons, it doesn't make a lot of sense for many manufacturers to compete in a space that has such a small market.

Edited June 8, 2023 by forrester_fire

[QuigleyDU]

I played the original one for a bit and actually really liked it as a second tee option. I was looking at the BRNR yesterday and would totally consider adding the 13.5 to the bag. I do wish it was a smidge smaller footprint. 

[RoyalMustang]

I bought (loaned) a Mini 300 11.5 from Global Golf a year ago. it was fun to hit: easy to hit the center of the face, still had good distance. Maybe 20 yards short of my regular driver.  

 

However, it wasn't really more accurate off the tee than my 3W and only marginally more so than my driver. I play my driver at 44" and it is plenty accurate. I've been in the 60-75% FIR numbers over the past few months. 

 

I like the concept, but what is different about a Mini driver vs. a standard head on a 44" or 43" shaft, weighted properly? What does the smaller Mini head give you that a regular driver doesn't? 

 

If people want accuracy, why not build a driver based on accuracy? My average distance is probably better on a 44" driver anyways, and max distance is similar. The super long shafts almost feel like a different swing is needed and it's really hard for me to sequence the backswing and transition properly. Even when I flush one, I rarely see an increase in distance. Maybe if I committed to a longer driver, I could get used to it, but how much more carry do I need? 10 yards more isn't really moving the needle if I start spraying the ball. 

[RoyalMustang]

23 hours ago, mbb86 said:

They are a very, very niche club. Like, the only real reason they would be useful is if you somehow generate enough ball speed to hit it off the turf like a 3 wood (which is a stretch for anyone with driver BS  <160mph) and have a much easier time turning the small head over vs conventional 460cc. There are people with slower ball speeds that might *think* they are benefitting from a mini driver but in reality they are probably benefitting from slightly higher loft and a shorter shaft, moreso than the mini driver itself. 

 

So if I played a very particular course where I needed to hit lots of 290y baby draws? Yes I'd own one. But man that's a pretty niche club considering a 4w will go 270 with the same shot shape and is likely more versatile off the deck. 

 

 

that's exactly my thinking. For me, it was like trying to replace 2 clubs (driver and 3W) with one club. That's fine and would maybe make a some  sense if I had a 5-club limit (putter, 54 degree, 44 degree, 30 degree, Mini driver) but why not just substitute a 3W for the Mini at that point? If 310 is approaching a hazard but 280 is safe, I already have that club in my bag. 

[Pepperturbo]

On 6/4/2023 at 9:59 AM, Adam C said:

I don't get it. How is it we only have a single option when it comes to mini drivers? Does this make sense? Obviously there is a market for them, at least as much as say 64 degree wedges or 9 woods, yet all we get is Taylormade? Can we start a petition to get some other brands to jump into this market segment.

Being a P&L guy, and better amateur, to me, it makes perfect sense no money in it.  There is NO market for that size of head that would be profitable.  LOL 

 

Yes, high-loft wedges and 7–9 woods are in play by young skilled and older user segments.  I have friends using both, but over the last fifteen years, including ten plus years of multi-pvt club match play events and regional AM events over SoCA, I have NEVER seen anyone playing a mini driver.  I know a few out there like them, still, but most people can't benefit from a small headed driver/2 wood, mainly because they don't have the horsepower or skill. 

 

I still have my RL Zeidler Absolute 8*, 288cc Ti head custom long-drive head with Composite Dynamics HP/M Fire Red Pearl shaft in storage. 

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Composite Dynamics HP/M

 

Wow, that takes me back.  The first driver I could hit worth anything had a Composite Dynamics HP/M Tour.  Loved that club.

 

[Is Golf Fun or Work]

Simple, not many people buy them, and current drivers are so forgiving why bother?

 

You could always find some used older drivers, or the OG Big Berta Deuce and have it refinished, reshafted, whatever.

[NRJyzr]

14 hours ago, Is Golf Fun or Work said:

Simple, not many people buy them, and current drivers are so forgiving why bother?

 

You could always find some used older drivers, or the OG Big Berta Deuce and have it refinished, reshafted, whatever.

 

Older drivers are designed with old CG theory, which was to push the CG higher in an attempt to help the higher speed player.  This is exactly the opposite of what is necessary for driver performance.

 

As for why bother....   some folks, including better players (see @bladehunter as an example), don't find the larger clubheads as consistent in the swing.

 

And, even Ping found this, which helped spawn the Blueprint irons; some golfer just prefer looking down at a smaller clubhead.  It just a preference that isn't directly tied to ability.

 

And then there's adjustability and plug-n-play shaft changes....

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by NRJyzr

[bladehunter]

1 minute ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Older drivers are designed with old CG theory, which was to push the CG higher in an attempt to help the higher speed player.  This is exactly the opposite of what is necessary for driver performance.

 

As for why bother....   some folks, including better players (see @bladehunter as an example), don't find the larger clubheads as consistent in the swing.

 

And, even Ping found this, which helped spawn the Blueprint irons; some golfer just prefer looking down at a smaller clubhead.  It just a preference that isn't directly tied to ability.

 

And then there's adjustability and plug-n-play shaft changes....

 

They’re infinitely harder to manage in my opinion.  Some worse than others.   I have a jbeam 435 head on right now that squares itself.  It’s really deep.  So it’s shorter than most heel to toe.  The huge length heel tp toe ow the issue.  And that’s also what creates “ forgiveness “.  I find that a driver that fits me is one that doesn’t hang open.  I can hit the middle. But I don’t like the sensation of having to flip it closed.  I don’t play a lot of face rotation.  So I hit everything else very straight.   I just don’t see any benefit and all loss to most modern drivers.  Hardest club to control for sure.   I have no issues whatsoever hitting 3 wood all day.  Driver gives me fits. Unless I go to a smaller head. Then it’s easy.  And jn talking at 45.5 inches length.  Not a short driver. Just a small head. 

[Ger21]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:38 AM, bladehunter said:

Shhhh.  Don’t tell them about the Z745 😂.   Best feeling driver I’ve ever hit 

My preference for smaller heads got me to order one of these from Japan yesterday. How can you go wrong for $29. Going to throw my Attas 5 GoGo in it and see how it works.

[MountainKing]

Not sure where you got your data on their being a market for them, but I doubt every manufacture missed that marked.   TM's Original One came out in 2019, I've played 300+ rounds since then and only seen one mini driver in that time, and that was one I put into play for a couple rounds to test out.  If my buddy didn't work for TM and have one to give me to try, I would have seen zero.  I'm just a small sample size, but I would assume if these things were in high demand they wouldn't be sitting on the racks at golf stores, and I'd be seeing guys use them occasionally on the course.  Outside of this forum, which accounts for probably less than 1% of the golfing world, there's zero demand. 

[Louis_Posture]

Nearly every players wants the biggest head because he believes that will produce the longest drives.

Nearly every player wants to swing a big headed driver as often as possible and is extremely reluctant to play anything less than big headed driver from a par 5 or par 4 tee box.

Would scoring averages go down if most players switched from a big head long shaft driver to a smaller head shorter shafted "mini driver"? Yes.

[Ger21]

2 hours ago, MountainKing said:

Outside of this forum, which accounts for probably less than 1% of the golfing world, there's zero demand. 

One of my playing partners, that doesn't frequent any golf forums, showed up with one a few weeks ago.

[MountainKing]

2 hours ago, Ger21 said:

One of my playing partners, that doesn't frequent any golf forums, showed up with one a few weeks ago.

So you found 1

[LCP]

In 10 years, I think I have seen *one* person on the golf course playing one, other than myself playing a Ping G400 Stretch 13º oversized 3 (2) wood.  And I will play this club forever or until it breaks and I find a used one to replace it with.  It's such a great oversized forgiving head with a shorter heavier shaft driving club.  Driver is only 20 yards longer.  But Ping hasn't made it since the G400 line. Not in the G410, G425 or G430 lines.