Can I be a good player with an outside-in club path?

[linley888]

I've had two instructors that have been hell-bent on converting me to an inside-out club path.  I've been spending a lot of time working on the drills but it just doesn't feel right to me and I'm less consistent and making poorer contact.

7 Iron distance with outside in path: 162 yards
7 Iron distance with inside out path: 148 yards (poorer dispersion)

I get that it's a technique issue causing that but wanted to hear if others have achieve high lifelong performance without 'inside out' - or if I should really just keep pushing through until I get it.

 

[phizzy30]

The answer is absolutely.  Victor Hovland is a good example of out to in path and he's elite.  As long as it's not excessive, you can become a very good player.  I would try and find a teaching pro that will work with your swing rather than trying to convert you to in to out. 

[golfinbrad]

I agree with @phizzy30  Have you voiced your concerns or opinion to the 2 instructors?  If you don't agree with their philosophy or they are not willing to work with you, find another.  Game is all about getting the ball in the hole, not having a perfect swing.  The key is confidence and consistency, so go with what ever gives you that.

[Hawkeye77]

Post your swing(s) or it’s all academic and speculative. 

[DShepley]

Absolutely you can provided your club face isn't wildly open or closed to your path.  Who doesn't love a nice cut?!

[linley888]

Yeah, so just some additional context -  I'm a tennis player actively learning golf at the moment.  I think to take advantage of the athleticism I have from that sport it was most natural to use a bit more right shoulder momentum (although I've toned it back a lot now). 

See Federer example of shoulder movement in tennis. It's been hard for me to reprogram myself to completely remove this.

 

 

Viktor Hovland is a good shout, have started watching his swing videos after you mentioned it. Interesting hearing him talk about something that is exactly what I think is my problem.  (Hip rotation with no side bend)

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by linley888

[getitdaily]

I am 1-3 degrees out to in and I'm scratch.

 

Flee from an instructor who wants to change that.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Avoid extremes but yes.

[glk]

As mentioned earlier, swing video or it is all a guess.    If you are out to in due to an over active right shoulder/upper body then most definitely you need to stick with the program -  saying instructors want to change your path is a bit open ended - if you have a severe "over the top" motion then an instructor ignoring that would be doing you a disservice - so need to see the swing or hear more about the "why" they want to change your motion.    I interpret the shoulder clip you included as you over use your upper body early in the downswing versus leading  more from the lower body but again would have to see a video - down the line.   

Edited July 28, 2023 by glk

[cgasucks]

Long time ago in my corporate days my boss at the time who used to be a club pro says that if you have a consistent slice or cut then you can win a US Open.

Edited July 28, 2023 by cgasucks

[MPStrat]

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

I am 1-3 degrees out to in and I'm scratch.

 

Flee from an instructor who wants to change that.

You are different. Your path is left because you rotate a ton and have elite body movements. If you were a square hipped thruster with a 3 degree outside in path and weren’t scratch player I would strongly advise you to learn how to draw the ball. 
 

These situations are tricky. We don’t know much at all about the op’s situation. On paper is a 2 degree left path acceptable? Absolutely and anyone who says different is wrong. But it really depends on how the golfer achieves the left path. 

[getitdaily]

4 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

You are different. Your path is left because you rotate a ton and have elite body movements. If you were a square hipped thruster with a 3 degree outside in path and weren’t scratch player I would strongly advise you to learn how to draw the ball. 
 

These situations are tricky. We don’t know much at all about the op’s situation. On paper is a 2 degree left path acceptable? Absolutely and anyone who says different is wrong. But it really depends on how the golfer achieves the left path. 

Well dang, that just made my day...lol 

[ChipNRun]

Golfers who hit fade as normal shot have a slight outside-in swing. The key is to be outside-in without swinging OTT (over the top).

 

Some instructors push a more inside-out swing as a way to cure golfers who have pronounced OTT swings; Severe OTT can deliver a crazy mix of slices and pulls.

 

Here is set-up which Nicklaus used for hitting a fade. (Other variations are possible too.)

 

Deep Background: Later in his career, Nicklaus had hip trouble and sometime would favor the draw to lessen pain. In fact, Chap. 3 in GMW is entitled, "Why I Always Played the Fade - and Sometimes Now Play the Draw."

[MPStrat]

15 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

Golfers who hit fade as normal shot have a slight outside-in swing. The key is to be outside-in without swinging OTT (over the top).

Define “over the top”

[ChipNRun]

18 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

Define “over the top”

 

Over the Top is perhaps the most common swing fault among high handicap golfers. It occurs due to an overuse of the upper body on the downswing. As a result the club will be thrown on the outside of the intended swing plane with the club head approaching the ball from outside to in. This creates a pull if the clubface is square or a slice if the club face is open.

 

Here is "how to cure" video from MyTPI:

 

https://cdn.jwplayer.com/previews/fIRAJwzQ?exp=1690571776&sig=dde10ffad9e3a39338fb88b5ff1476c3

[gators78]

They need to be using a monitor to understand how much out-to-in you are. As others have said, it’s totally fine assuming it’s not extreme. If they’re not using one, they’re guessing.

[linley888]

1 hour ago, ChipNRun said:

Golfers who hit fade as normal shot have a slight outside-in swing. The key is to be outside-in without swinging OTT (over the top).

 

Some instructors push a more inside-out swing as a way to cure golfers who have pronounced OTT swings; Severe OTT can deliver a crazy mix of slices and pulls.

 

Here is set-up which Nicklaus used for hitting a fade. (Other variations are possible too.)

 

Deep Background: Later in his career, Nicklaus had hip trouble and sometime would favor the draw to lessen pain. In fact, Chap. 3 in GMW is entitled, "Why I Always Played the Fade - and Sometimes Now Play the Draw."

This is an amazing response, thank you! I started golf this year, and read GMW at the start before I really knew what I was doing. I need to go and re-read it apparently.

[MPStrat]

39 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

 

Over the Top is perhaps the most common swing fault among high handicap golfers. It occurs due to an overuse of the upper body on the downswing. As a result the club will be thrown on the outside of the intended swing plane with the club head approaching the ball from outside to in. This creates a pull if the clubface is square or a slice if the club face is open.

 

Here is "how to cure" video from MyTPI:

 

https://cdn.jwplayer.com/previews/fIRAJwzQ?exp=1690571776&sig=dde10ffad9e3a39338fb88b5ff1476c3

Ok so this persons definition of OTT is in relation to the body’s rotation bringing the hands outward. That’s what @getitdaily and countless tour players in history like Viktor Hovland do and they aren’t high handicap golfers. 

[linley888]

For those that want to see it firsthand, I only have this clip saved that is recent.   This one had a club path of 0.6 so basically a straight line, but I think folks can still diagnose what issues would make the in-to-out difficult. I get that I'm not shallow enough on the downswing - and usually when I try to fix that things kind of fall apart (either hands feel like they get behind me on the turn, or I start swinging the club too shallow the whole way through and don't feel the weight of the clubhead anymore - it feels like swinging a bat). I know the attack angle also needs to be more 'down' as well - that part I have made good improvements on since

Vidoe Link: https://clipchamp.com/watch/8d6d1KRtGuq



Not asking you all give me live lessons, but since it was requested I thought I'd share 🙂

Edited July 28, 2023 by linley888

[Pepperturbo]

7 hours ago, linley888 said:

I've had two instructors that have been hell-bent on converting me to an inside-out club path.  I've been spending a lot of time working on the drills but it just doesn't feel right to me and I'm less consistent and making poorer contact.

7 Iron distance with outside in path: 162 yards
7 Iron distance with inside out path: 148 yards (poorer dispersion)

I get that it's a technique issue causing that but wanted to hear if others have achieve high lifelong performance without 'inside out' - or if I should really just keep pushing through until I get it.

 

Jim Furyk is outside in.  If you're not interested in entirely changing your swing, say NO and consider finding another instructor who takes what you have and builds on it. 

 

Back when I started golf at 40yrs old, about 8 months in, I visited a few instructors, each due to my age, wanted to change shaft profile to "R" and change club heads.  They also wanted to change my swing into a more fluid swing like Els.  It didn't feel right, so I said to each, catch you on the flip side and walked. 

 

A few months later, a friend who played golf in college referred me to his instructor.  He watched me hit balls, asked me my index and golf goal, I shared.  He mentioned how my hands behave just before impact.  After a few meetings, he suggested either 6.5 or X flex, but preferred 6.5, I said yes.  He provided some further tweaks, and I was done after a few meetings.  That was the only teacher I've had since.  Inside 6yrs, I reached 2 index. 

 

If you don't want something stand your ground.

[MPStrat]

10 minutes ago, linley888 said:

For those that want to see it firsthand, I only have this clip saved that is recent.   This one had a club path of 0.6 so basically a straight line, but I think folks can still diagnose what issues would make the in-to-out difficult. I get that I'm not shallow enough on the downswing - and usually when I try to fix that things kind of fall apart (either hands feel like they get behind me on the turn, or I start swinging the club too shallow the whole way through and don't feel the weight of the clubhead anymore - it feels like swinging a bat). I know the attack angle also needs to be more 'down' as well - that part I have made good improvements on since

Vidoe Link: https://clipchamp.com/watch/8d6d1KRtGuq



Not asking you all give me live lessons, but since it was requested I thought I'd share 🙂

Yes, this is the problematic out to in. Your arms actually don’t work out too much but you tip the club steep from the top of the swing.
 

 

The lead arm and body positions here suggest a draw.

 

Without knowing how exactly the teachers advised you on your issues we can’t say it’s necessarily good or bad but If I was your teacher, seeing this, I would want you to be able to draw the ball with an in to out path.

[getitdaily]

Can you be a good player with a path that's out to in? Yes

 

You have several things to clean up. If you want to play a fade then tell your instructor that and have them put you in a setup position and back swing positions that help hit a fade. 

[bladehunter]

4 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Ok so this persons definition of OTT is in relation to the body’s rotation bringing the hands outward. That’s what @getitdaily and countless tour players in history like Viktor Hovland do and they aren’t high handicap golfers. 

Raises hand.  That’s this guy too.  No way in hell I’ll start sucking it inside and laying down flat to try to time it up.  I’ve been a traveling +2 at my best. Trending back that way now. 
 

 

[TLUBulldogGolf]

5 hours ago, linley888 said:

For those that want to see it firsthand, I only have this clip saved that is recent.   This one had a club path of 0.6 so basically a straight line, but I think folks can still diagnose what issues would make the in-to-out difficult. I get that I'm not shallow enough on the downswing - and usually when I try to fix that things kind of fall apart (either hands feel like they get behind me on the turn, or I start swinging the club too shallow the whole way through and don't feel the weight of the clubhead anymore - it feels like swinging a bat). I know the attack angle also needs to be more 'down' as well - that part I have made good improvements on since

Vidoe Link: https://clipchamp.com/watch/8d6d1KRtGuq



Not asking you all give me live lessons, but since it was requested I thought I'd share 🙂

There is a lot to clean up here without simply saying swing from the inside. Attack angle is not enough down being the main thing but I don’t see ‘swing it from the inside’ magically resolving anything.