Do any of you low to mid-handicappers use Super Game Improvement clubs?

[CROUSE99]

I can recommend two sets that I have a lot of experience with:  Mizuno JPX 923 Hot Metal HL and MacGregor MT-86 OS.  Shortly after I bought the Mizunos, I was chosen to be a tester of the Macs on another web site.  They are both very forgiving of off center hits and easy to elevate, with the Mizunos flying higher than the Macs.  The Mizunos are weaker lofted than most SGI clubs but I am getting good distance with them.  The Macs feel better than the Mizunos but the Macs aren't very forgiving on thin strikes.  It depends on what you're looking for but either one is an easy recommendation.  FYI, I am 66 years old with a hcp of 9.3.  My swing speed with a driver is 88 to 92 mph.

[Nessism]

6 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

 

So Titleist T350 it is!! (with KBS Tour Lite Regular Steel Shafts)

 

 

 

Congratulations on make a thoughtful decision.  Those T350's look like really nice irons.  The lofts are strong, but not as stupid strong as the T400, which are over the top in my opinion.  

 

Please come back and post a review once you get the clubs.  

[BigEx44]

29 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

Congratulations on make a thoughtful decision.  Those T350's look like really nice irons.  The lofts are strong, but not as stupid strong as the T400, which are over the top in my opinion.  

 

Please come back and post a review once you get the clubs.  

 

Will do.  The clubs felt sweet.  Can't wait to get them on the course!

[GrandStranded]

7 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

Well, I just got back from my fitting.

 

After establishing a baseline with my current Apex DCB's I took a few swings with a "Shaft Optimizer".

In all the fittings I've ever had (around 5), that's the first time I've ever seen (or used) one of those.  It resulted in my first surprise: the optimizer recommended a regular shaft in the 100g range.

Hmmmm.  My current iron shafts are 80g.   But ok, I'm willing to go with the Optimizer's recommendations.

 

Then on came the clubs (I was hitting a 7 iron for each).

 

1st was Taylor Made Stealth HD.  Felt clunky to me.  Didn't hit the ball very well.  Didn't like it.  A definite "no go" for me.

 

Next was the Cleveland Halo XL Irons.  Boom!  Felt sweet and I was hitting the ball well.  Definitely longer than my Apex and with what felt like better dispersion.  The only thing I didn't like was the looks.  That is one big footprint!  But we threw that in the "may be the winner pile" anyways.

 

Then it was on to Callaway Paradym X.  I hit some absolute bombs with that club!!  Some 170+ yd 7 irons versus my current Apex 140-150 yds.  A full 2 club pickup.   But that was almost too much distance.  It would really screw up my gapping when I got to my hybrids and fairway woods.  Which might've been ok if I was getting those bombs consistently, but I wasn't.  Every 3d or 4th shot.  So despite my ego really liking those occasional bombs, this too went in "no go" pile.

 

JPX923 were next.  They were nice but didn't feel as good or perform quite as good for me to as the Halo's.

 

Last but not least, the fitter brought out a club that I don't think has even officially been released to retailers yet: the new Titleist 350.  1st swing was my best of the day.  Buttery feel that landed 160 yds out with a baby draw.  Ohhh that felt nice.  Subsequent swings felt just as nice and with pretty good and consistent results.  Of all the clubs I hit - this had absolutely the best feel for me.  Plus, for a GI or SGI club - the looks were very sleek, beautiful.  This went into the "may be a winner" pile too.

 

Ok.  So now it was time for a "hit off" between the Cleveland Launcher Halo's and the Titleist 350's.

 

I took about another 20 swings jockeying back and forth between the two every couple of shots or so.

 

The 350 in my mind had just slightly better performance (the fitter agreed) and the sleeker looks just made the decision easy.

 

So Titleist T350 it is!! (with KBS Tour Lite Regular Steel Shafts)

 

 

Congrats! Can’t go wrong with the t300 series imo.

Hey, as a ‘Cuse grad, I gotta ask… does your “name” mean what I think it does? Were you a 44, or just a fan?

Edited August 8, 2023 by john myrbch

[2Down]

Playing to a 4 now, been low but that was back when I could putt.  
anyways I’ve tried it s few times.  First time was ping g20. And that passed with a whimper.  Tried g710 a year ago and that lasted a year.  Played ok with em but always back to i something’s  or mizuno    Lowest scores were with the mizuno and pings s59.  Could work the g20 a bit better than the g710. But they played a straighter ball better. But left then both for a perception of poor distance control out of the rough (those few times I found it).  G20 had a lot of bounce and our rough was usually firm at best. And the 710 seemed to catch more fliers than anything else I played.    
my handicap never changed much but seemed higher in my head.  

[ran098gr2]

Just turned 70 , 10HCP from the whites, very dangerous from the Senior Tees.

Play Ping G425 irons, just point and shoot. 

[BigEx44]

10 hours ago, john myrbch said:

Congrats! Can’t go wrong with the t300 series imo.

Hey, as a ‘Cuse grad, I gotta ask… does your “name” mean what I think it does? Were you a 44, or just a fan?

 

I am only an hour from Syracuse (I live in Rochester).

But no, I don't think my name means what you think it does.

The "BigE" is because my name is Eric and in my younger softball days - I was in pretty good shape and hit a lot of HR's - so my coach just started calling me "BigE"

I'm also a huge NY Giants fan and 44 was the number of my favorite all time "scrappy" RB Doug Kotar.

44 then ultimately became my favorite number.

[BigEx44]

15 minutes ago, ran098gr2 said:

Just turned 70 , 10HCP from the whites, very dangerous from the Senior Tees.

Play Ping G425 irons, just point and shoot. 

 

I forgot to mention it in my writeup - but I actually did get to demo the Ping G425.

For me, I didn't hit it nearly as well as the Titleist T350.

[Vespar]

On 8/4/2023 at 9:27 PM, J_Tizzle said:

I'm 39 and went the "players distance" approach with my i525 and I really like them.  They look like blades but play like GI irons (to me at least).  I'd recommend giving that family of clubs a look.

which is what the Taylormade 790 accomplishes ( and a few other models from different MFGs). In the parking lot they look like blades and on the course they act like big berthas for alot of folks

[J_Tizzle]

57 minutes ago, Vespar said:

which is what the Taylormade 790 accomplishes ( and a few other models from different MFGs). In the parking lot they look like blades and on the course they act like big berthas for alot of folks

 

Yep absolutely.  I can still hit little cuts and draws with them, but with my terrible ball striking it never looks that bad off the club face, no matter how bad I actually hit it.  Plus they look great!

[Vespar]

On 8/6/2023 at 5:33 PM, BigEx44 said:

 

That's an interesting program.  My only problem is I tend to fit to regular or stiff shafts (I'm right on the border) and I need graphite because steel bothers my sensitive elbows and the site only offers steel options for those flexes.

 

But I will keep an eye on this for future driver and wedge opportunities.  

 

Thanks for the heads up!

My suggestion is to go heavier graphite, say up in the 90+ gram- 105 gram  it will feel like you are swinging something, rather than something too light ( 65-74gram) 

[gvogel]

5 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

 

I forgot to mention it in my writeup - but I actually did get to demo the Ping G425.

For me, I didn't hit it nearly as well as the Titleist T350.

I started the year with Ping G425 with the stock Alta CB graphite shafts.  Couldn't get on with them, probably because of the shaft weight.

 

Have ended up with T300 with Nippon 950 NEO - this is sort of close to the AP1 with 105T shafts that I have played for 10 years.  Guess that combo has my name on it.

 

The Malty Playability Index for the Ping G425 is 605, a low Game improvement, while the T300 is 877, a super game improvement.  So there is that.

[gvogel]

On 8/6/2023 at 5:33 PM, BigEx44 said:

 

That's an interesting program.  My only problem is I tend to fit to regular or stiff shafts (I'm right on the border) and I need graphite because steel bothers my sensitive elbows and the site only offers steel options for those flexes.

 

But I will keep an eye on this for future driver and wedge opportunities.  

 

Thanks for the heads up!

Try a Nippon shaft.  The Nippon 105T shaft never caused me elbow problems, but Dynamic Golds in Pings did cause a problem.

[forrester_fire]

I would be interested to see the age of the single-digit caps that play SGI.  I would wager most of them are older and have lost distance over the years.

[BigEx44]

4 hours ago, Vespar said:

My suggestion is to go heavier graphite, say up in the 90+ gram- 105 gram  it will feel like you are swinging something, rather than something too light ( 65-74gram) 

 

I ended getting fit into KBS Tour Lite Steel Shafts (95g).

The fitter assured me they would not bother my elbows.

And if they did, he said bring the clubs back and they'd make it right.

[BigEx44]

40 minutes ago, forrester_fire said:

I would be interested to see the age of the single-digit caps that play SGI.  I would wager most of them are older and have lost distance over the years.

 

That would be me.  Currently sitting at 65 yrs old.

[gvogel]

51 minutes ago, forrester_fire said:

I would be interested to see the age of the single-digit caps that play SGI.  I would wager most of them are older and have lost distance over the years.

I plead guilty.  Ex-single digit, now 70 years old.  T300 with Nippon 950 NEO. 

 

I am interested in mixing in T150 9-iron and PW with T350 7 and 8-iron next year, and maybe even 6-iron.

[A.Princey]

37, been plying mine for 7y now, same set for 3. 

[Pepperturbo]

Everyone is different OP.  If that works for you, fine. 

 

But it's not an option for this old school 70+ player.  My bag is kept simple: Driver, 3wd, 2i and 3i-PW, SW, LW, P.  I firmly believe getting better or making hitting the ball easier, is NOT so much about the club head as it is the head on our shoulders, driving solid ball striking.   Furthermore, I don't see myself as wanting to hang on to.... I still expect to be reckoned with in a game.  Reason I bought new irons last year and since set them aside, put my MBs back in the bag until my new T100 set arrives.  Yes, I have an ego that drives me at everything I tackle.

 

From what I've seen up close and personal, easy to hit clubs tend to foster mental laziness over the ball.  All depends on the reason behind choosing SGI.  Regardless of club heads, good golf is about attention to details. 

Recently, I toyed with my wife's easy SGI – AP1 irons, even played 18 holes with them, only.  At first, I hit them further than my irons but couldn't feel impact.  As the round evolved, I found myself getting almost lazy over the ball, thinking I didn't have to focus, looking for the club to forgive my weak attention to the ball; exactly what I see with a few friends.  Heck the same thing happens with my 620 MBs.  I am long past many swing mistakes, my mistakes are mental.

 

Now, if you're losing some of your game and hoping SGI will help prevent what your body and time is doing, they might or might not help.  If that were thought the case though, I suspect all the guys on the Champions tour would have SGI in the bag.

[Nessism]

4 hours ago, forrester_fire said:

I would be interested to see the age of the single-digit caps that play SGI.  I would wager most of them are older and have lost distance over the years.

 

Well, I'm older...now, playing SGI.  When I was young, playing blades/small CB's, the look of a large iron would make me gag.  With age comes wisdom, and, in my case, the bias against large irons disappeared.  I don't play them for extra distance, I play them for consistent distance.  And I didn't need extra distance when I started with them; I hit my G10 9 iron 150 yards.

[forrester_fire]

On 8/8/2023 at 6:16 PM, Nessism said:

 

Well, I'm older...now, playing SGI.  When I was young, playing blades/small CB's, the look of a large iron would make me gag.  With age comes wisdom, and, in my case, the bias against large irons disappeared.  I don't play them for extra distance, I play them for consistent distance.  And I didn't need extra distance when I started with them; I hit my G10 9 iron 150 yards.

 

I'm a mid-cap (around a 12) and not a particularly great ball striker.  My primary reason for playing a "players distance" iron, which I've had bent two degrees weak, has more to do with distance rather than the size/offset of SGI.  I need a bit of forgiveness, but I'm 45 and my 7i carry is ~167 at 34 degrees.  I might benefit from the ease of an SGI iron, but I would definitely not benefit from a low-spin 7i that carries 180+.

 

That's why I assume that most single-digit SGI players are older...they need the distance more so than a younger single-digit.

Edited August 10, 2023 by forrester_fire

[DixieD]

5 hours ago, forrester_fire said:

 

I'm a mid-cap (around a 12) and not a particularly great ball striker.  My primary reason for playing a "players distance" iron, which I've had bent two degrees weak, has more to do with distance rather than the size/offset of SGI.  I need a bit of forgiveness, but I'm 45 and my 7i carry is ~167 at 34 degrees.  I might benefit from the ease of an SGI iron, but I would definitely not benefit from a low-spin 7i that carries 180+.

 

That's why I assume that most single-digit SGI players are older...they need the distance more so than a younger single-digit.

I get what your saying here, I thought like this until recently it was just for older players. But what if that 167 7 iron becomes a 167 8 or 9 iron, would you not be more confident hitting a green with a shorter iron and therefore shaft?

I've always played traditional lofted irons until recently trying pxg 0211dc's and am having great results. Ridiculously forgiving, feel good and 1.5-2 clubs less into greens. Not seeing the dreaded flyers either just very consistent spin, more consistent than a mishit with a more players club for sure.

34y/o with around a 95mph 7 iron swing and 2.4 cap for reference. 

[forrester_fire]

16 hours ago, DixieD said:

I get what your saying here, I thought like this until recently it was just for older players. But what if that 167 7 iron becomes a 167 8 or 9 iron, would you not be more confident hitting a green with a shorter iron and therefore shaft?

I've always played traditional lofted irons until recently trying pxg 0211dc's and am having great results. Ridiculously forgiving, feel good and 1.5-2 clubs less into greens. Not seeing the dreaded flyers either just very consistent spin, more consistent than a mishit with a more players club for sure.

34y/o with around a 95mph 7 iron swing and 2.4 cap for reference. 

 

The problem then becomes the gapping at the bottom of the bag.  If my PW goes 150 and my GW goes 135, I have to completely retool the bottom end of my bag.  As it is, I like going 51 (set GW), 56, 60.  I usually play from 6500 yards, so it's pretty rare that I have anything over 7i into a green as it is.

[nosedive32]

Not really relevant now (I'm up to a 12 - it's been a rough couple of years)

 

But a few years ago I was playing my best golf and got down to a 6. That summer I played the Srixon ZX4s when the first version came out. Some might call them game improvement distance and others might say super game improvement.

 

I don't know that I've seen anything as extreme as a single digit using hybrid irons but we've seen guys on tour do some pretty comparable stuff.

 

KJ Choi played G10s or 15s back in the day.

 

Phil Mickelson played Epic Forged for a while.

 

Use whatever you're comfortable with.

[BigEx44]

10 hours ago, nosedive32 said:

Not really relevant now (I'm up to a 12 - it's been a rough couple of years)

 

But a few years ago I was playing my best golf and got down to a 6. That summer I played the Srixon ZX4s when the first version came out. Some might call them game improvement distance and others might say super game improvement.

 

I don't know that I've seen anything as extreme as a single digit using hybrid irons but we've seen guys on tour do some pretty comparable stuff.

 

KJ Choi played G10s or 15s back in the day.

 

Phil Mickelson played Epic Forged for a while.

 

Use whatever you're comfortable with.

 

Why did you stop using ZX4's?

[nosedive32]

5 hours ago, BigEx44 said:

 

Why did you stop using ZX4's?

I developed the shanks with them after about a year and change 

[ChaosTheory]

@nosedive32

[MtlJeff]

On 8/8/2023 at 1:28 PM, forrester_fire said:

I would be interested to see the age of the single-digit caps that play SGI.  I would wager most of them are older and have lost distance over the years.

 

That's mostly what i see. A few years back two of the best seniors in Quebec that i played with regularly both used Burner 2.0s. You see a lot of stuff like that in the ams with seniors. 

 

When i played them i was 28 and swung 118mph lol....definitely the outlier. My guess is not many G15 orders came in with X100 shafts haha

[CactusGolf]

I'm in the single digits currently and have been relatively stable between the 3-5 HCP range since high school.  Definitely haven't played anything less than the "Game Improvement" irons since at least 2015 (played Hogan Ft. Worth 15s and loved them).

 

When the PSIs came out, I waited a year and then picked them up on the old TM Pre-Owned site and played them until 2023.  Currently playing the Callaway Rogue ST Pros (wouldn't consider them a players' iron,

 

PSis have a MPF of 550 (Conventional) and Rogue ST Pros are 740 (Super Game Improvement, which I'm kind of surprised about).  

 

I can't see myself going back to anything less than that (e.g. Callaway TCB or the like).  The only thing I would need to make sure of is that the irons are "too" big.  Anything larger than the Pros tends to get hung up in the rough a bit.  I don't feel I've missed out by going the SGI route.  Just have to make sure that the gapping is correct.

 

For example, I was playing 4-PW then 52/56/60 in the PSIs, but had to go 5-PW then 48/52/56/60 with the Rogue ST Pros due to the slightly lower lofts (hitting it higher though).  I was missing the 125-130 shot without the 48.

 

As far as distance, I've definitely gained some from going away from the Ft Worth 15s, but I'm also hitting it higher and holding more greens as a result.  

Edited August 14, 2023 by CactusGolf

[Mikepaul]

I’m a low handicap golfer (plus 2), I tried the Mizuno pro 223 - they didn’t work due to large soles and huge offset (they go left), I’ve moved to the 2023 P770 and they are excellent - I consider them game improvement but with the versatility of blades - the p770 are very forgiving and offer great distance with blade like spin levels (7200 rpm with a 7i).