Friends asking to borrow clubs

[tatertot]

2 hours ago, e-man said:

Thanks for all the responses guys.

 

A few additional points.  The day after the heated exchange, he texted my wife to ask if someone was home and had his daughter drop off the club on our front doorstep.  For what it’s worth, he didn’t text me, not that I expected him to, because he was clearly upset with me.  
 

Second, the driver is an older driver (Callaway Diablo Edge) that my late father in law won in the Callaway promotion when Phil won the Masters in 2010.  When he passed away in December 2018, my mother in law gave me his bag for safekeeping.  This was not his primary driver.  He had a 913d2 that I would never loan out.  

So ... You risked a friendship over a 13-year old driver that meant nothing to you? It's hard, but sometimes we have to suck it up and be the bigger man, even when we're right.

[david.c.w]

Regarding OP, sounds like the friend is being a pain.  Whether it is golf clubs or tools or a suitcase, if someone borrows it and the words, "You can keep it", don't come out of your mouth, it should be returned expeditiously.  

 

For me personally, you can't borrow it if it has a headcover (D, 3w, putter).  Other than that, hack away.

 

Threads like this always make me question the thoughts of other people.  I am 49, and feel like a 1st grader if I have to ask for my stuff back.  Whatever it is, I bought it because I want it or need it.  I did not buy it hoping someone else would want it.

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by david.c.w

[bogieboy]

Bottom line that i am reading into this, the "friend" doesnt have a driver, and hasnt for several years now, relying on your generosity.... sounds like said friend needs to invest in a driver.... a diablo edge off ebay is like a $40-50 driver... said friend is a cheapskate in my mind at least.... 

 

I am a mechanic by trade, if a coworker (or myself) needs to borrow a tool once, great, thats fine... the second time i need that tool that i borrowed, i go buy one... i dont keep mooching off the person with the tool i need... 

[bogieboy]

17 hours ago, tatertot said:

So ... You risked a friendship over a 13-year old driver that meant nothing to you? It's hard, but sometimes we have to suck it up and be the bigger man, even when we're right.

Disagree with this... if the "friendship" is able to go to pot over asking for a 13 yr old driver back, it wasnt a friendahip, it was being used for your clubs.... 

[James the Hogan Fan]

Apologize for snapping, explain that your intent was not a "loan to own" deal, explain the club was your Dad's and has meaning to you, and offer to loan it again whenever just as long as he brings it back in a couple days for one time use.

 

I think when he asked if he could keep it "for awhile" to him that meant as long as he likes, and his asking about if you used it was more of a "oh if you needed it I'm sorry I hadn't brought it back"

 

Resetting/clarifying that expectation, while restoring the cordiality should restore the friendship. 

[st1800e]

Lots of suggestions on mending the relationship.  

 

An old British adage is "never complain, never explain"

 

So to that end I'd say....

when you see him next,  or call him, just say something like, "sorry I snapped at you about the driver, my bad.  Period.   No need to explain anything.   

 

If he starts to make excuses, just say "no worries man, if you want to borrow it again, just let me know.  

 

Either he'll rattle on explaining, or move forward, in either event you've done your best to put it behind and just move on.  He will have to decide to what he wants to do going forward.  

 

Either way you can sleep at night. What he does is up to him.  

 

End of story.  

 

PS: don't make other peoples problems your problems.  

 

 

 

 

[Greenie]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:05 PM, e-man said:

 

 

Anyway, I guess the question is what is the proper etiquette here?  I don’t want to be a jerk by not lending out stuff that I’m not currently using, but at the same point, it shouldn’t be an expectation and I also shouldn’t have to chase people down to get stuff back.  
 

Any words of wisdom?

 

It's best if you are going to let the way a lot of people are bother you to take my route.

 

I don't loan any of my golf stuff out. I take care of my stuff and I am to picky. I either get my stuff back abused or dirty or not at all without me having to ask for it plenty of times or without me having to go and pick it up.               

 

 I don't sell any of my stuff to friends. I have plenty of clubs I would like to sell. I am not a demo shop. My friends expect to try something out for as long as they can get away with it and when I finally have had enough of someone being on the fence they will give the clubs back or I have to ask for them back. I found it funny how someone could play a set of irons or a driver for months and when i finally request payment they decide the club/s are not working for them.

 

 I have a basement full of golf stuff. I keep quiet on what I have now. I have nothing for sale. I have nothing to lend out. It's not worth it to me to get stressed over how a large number of my friends are about that kind of stuff. With the people I play golf with we have boundaries. I know how everyone is and they know how I am. 

 

I would simply tell anyone asking to borrow something that you don't do that anymore because it has caused some problems between you and certain friends.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Greenie

[Greenie]

On 8/17/2023 at 5:14 PM, tatertot said:

So ... You risked a friendship over a 13-year old driver that meant nothing to you? It's hard, but sometimes we have to suck it up and be the bigger man, even when we're right.

 Sometimes you have to look hard at the way a friend constantly treats you or uses you and then decide how important that friendship really is to you. I have many friends. Some of my friendships I value more than others because of how we treat each other. I have friends that are only friends to me when they need something. When I need them they don't seem to be there.

[SNIPERBBB]

Does the club have sentimental value to you? If not, I would just sell it to the guy. Resale market on clubs more than a couple years old is ridiculous(it's basically scrap price), which is why many of us have collections of clubs sitting around. Not counting my current setup  I've got 6 sets of clubs and 4 bags in my garage I wouldn't care at this point if I loaned em all out and they never came out. I just want em out of my garage!

Edited August 20, 2023 by SNIPERBBB

[mshills]

Quite a strange situation and exchange, really. 
 

If I give someone a club, it is a gift and I’m quite happy to have less clutter in my house. Boiling over ain’t worth it, especially on a 15 year old driver that is worth exactly nothing today and wasn’t that good when it was new.
 

Weird behavior from the recipient too! I am not sure I’ve ever borrowed a golf club, but anything else I borrow — tools come to mind as frequently borrowed and loaned out — the very first thing on my mind after successful use is returning the equipment to its owner. 

[Carl Spackler3]

My buddy: mind if I hit your driver

Me: help yourself but a sky mark you buy it and it was $750

Buddy: no I’m good

[e-man]

Guys, OP here. Thank you again for all the helpful replies. The driver means nothing to me. It’s not sentimental because it was not my father-in-law‘s primary driver. And I agree, it’s basically worthless. Probably not worth any more than $25-$50. I guess what bothers me most is the principle. This is the third time he has borrowed it over the last three years and each of the previous two times I’ve had to chase him down to get it back. In fact, in 2022 when he borrowed it, I ended up getting it back from him in February when we dropped him and his wife off at their house after dinner plans.  It was sitting in the garage. He forgot he even had it.  It’s not as if I would not have gotten it back from him at some point, but it just feels like a complete disregard for someone else’s property.
 

The part about it that bothers me most was that he was not using it because he was injured yet he felt that it was OK to hold onto it because it was not a driver that I regularly used. As I saidabove, two days after I got it back from him, my across the street neighbor asked to borrow it for some family that was in from out of town. Of all the clubs I have, this is the one that I don’t mind lending out to others because I don’t care what happens to it. That said, it does not mean that if I lent it to someone, they can keep it permanently, even if they’re not using it because someone else may want to use it. It’s just so presumptuous on his part to think that  he can keep it long term because I don’t need or use it. 
 

I am not willing to lose a 25 year old friendship over this. I’ll make amends with him at some point and it will be water under the bridge. I do think he should go out and spend $50 to buy himself a cheap driver rather than constantly calling me and borrowing it, returning it, etc.  

[Augster]

There’s an old saying, anything you lend out, don’t expect to get it back. 
 

If you live by that saying, you won’t run into situations like this. If the person gives whatever it is that was lent out back, great. If not? Meh. You weren’t expecting it back anyway. 
 

I don’t get why you would care even one iota that he wasn’t returning an item you weren’t going to use anyway. It’s a little off. Perhaps some latent OCD you could work through with self help books or a therapist? 
 

Don’t sweat the small stuff. 

 

[Schulzmc]

1 hour ago, e-man said:

Guys, OP here. Thank you again for all the helpful replies. The driver means nothing to me. It’s not sentimental because it was not my father-in-law‘s primary driver. And I agree, it’s basically worthless. Probably not worth any more than $25-$50. I guess what bothers me most is the principle.

I understand your feelings and the principle involved. But I also know when he asked to borrow it the second time I probably would have said, “just keep it” and been glad it was getting used.

[Hawkeye77]

19 hours ago, e-man said:

Of all the clubs I have, this is the one that I don’t mind lending out to others because I don’t care what happens to it.

 

I am not willing to lose a 25 year old friendship over this. I’ll make amends with him at some point and it will be water under the bridge. I do think he should go out and spend $50 to buy himself a cheap driver rather than constantly calling me and borrowing it, returning it, etc.  

Just picking out the gems.  Per usual, more things keep getting revealed that should have been in the original post for context.

 

If you don't care what happens to it, this is all a bunch of time wasting and hand wringing as you continue to justify snapping at someone over something you really don't care about in an unreasonable way (yes, everyone gets that it is "yours", yes, it would be nice if people brought stuff back they borrow but . . . there's a 25 year old friendship with plenty of slack now revealed in terms of expectations).

 

Clearly you are willing to lose a 25 year old friendship because ever since your little outburst you've been "meaning to" apologize and haven't done so.  Well, that's a crappy way to behave in the first and second instance.  This happened weeks ago, you've admitted your response was inappropriate and disproportionate to the issue and have done absolutely nothing.  Coming here and going on about it is probably the biggest indicator the friendship means nothing  -  I know I've had a problem with a friend last thing I'm doing is trying to get affirmation from strangers about my behavior and ignoring the relationship.

 

 

[e-man]

That’s fair, and I agree.  I thought I admitted that my response was harsh but maybe I didn’t.  Anyway, that’s all on me.

[mshills]

On a good day that club is worth $15.  Maybe $0, because there isn't exactly a huge market for people wanting to buy such a club.  Stuff like that, give it away or give it to The First Tee.

 

You've been friends for a quarter century, and you snapped at him.  It happens, I've been there, and I regret it every time.  The course of action is when you cooled off (which should be like the same day), call him up and say "hey man, I'm sorry I said that, I was out of line.  Want to play golf and have a beer on Saturday?"  Note, no mention of the driver.  Who cares about that thing?

 

Apparently that didn't happen -- he texts your wife and drops off the club....which to me is a passive-aggressive middle finger the length of that worthless driver shaft.  Oops.  Lots of men never have a friendship that lasts 10 years let alone 25.  You'd best call him up and clear the air.

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, e-man said:

That’s fair, and I agree.  I thought I admitted that my response was harsh but maybe I didn’t.  Anyway, that’s all on me.

So go see him!!!!!

 

At this point I'd make him a present of it, but that could be a bridge too far and I get that. 😉

[david.c.w]

On 8/20/2023 at 4:52 PM, Augster said:

There’s an old saying, anything you lend out, don’t expect to get it back. 
 

If you live by that saying, you won’t run into situations like this. If the person gives whatever it is that was lent out back, great. If not? Meh. You weren’t expecting it back anyway. 
 

I don’t get why you would care even one iota that he wasn’t returning an item you weren’t going to use anyway. It’s a little off. Perhaps some latent OCD you could work through with self help books or a therapist? 
 

Don’t sweat the small stuff. 

 

 

A guy wanting his stuff back that someone borrowed needs books and a therapist?    That is nuts.  

 

bor·row

/ˈbärō,ˈbôrō/

1. take and use (something that belongs to someone else) with the intention of returning it.

[charli]

Tell them venmo for the cost of the clubs. Upon their return you get your money back 

[Greenie]

23 hours ago, e-man said:

That’s fair, and I agree.  I thought I admitted that my response was harsh but maybe I didn’t.  Anyway, that’s all on me.

 

I disagree with some of these posts.

 

It doesn't matter how old the club is, if the OP has use for it, the value of said club, etc. The bottom line is this person borrowed a club. When you borrow something you return it in a timely manner and in the same or better condition. I also feel when you ask to borrow something if you keep asking to borrow the same thing then it is time for you to buy your own. 

 

I have had my fair share of people over the years asking to borrow something from me that didn't take care of what they borrowed, didn't return it on their own and came off the way this guy did with the OP.  I have no problem letting someone like that know how I feel about them borrowing something from me. I don't feel bad if they get their feelings hurt. I wouldn't apologize to this person. They need to apologize to you. 

[Augster]

10 hours ago, david.c.w said:

 

A guy wanting his stuff back that someone borrowed needs books and a therapist?    That is nuts.  

 

bor·row

/ˈbärō,ˈbôrō/

1. take and use (something that belongs to someone else) with the intention of returning it.

The OP doesn’t need the club. The OP doesn’t want the club. Heck, he doesn’t even like the club. He likely had no idea he even still had the club until he lent it out. 
 

But once he lent it to his “friend”, he became obsessed with getting it back. That’s a problem. Obsessed to the point of actually blowing up at the guy. 
 

And when/if he ever gets the driver back, what’s he going to do with it? Most likely, it’ll just sit in the garage again. 
 

The fact that it matters to the OP whether an ancient driver sits, not being used, in his garage, or in his “friend’s” garage is a problem with OCD. Albeit, it could be very minor. 
 

In the end, after all the OP eventually revealed, I’d say, deep down, the OP doesn’t actually like or trust his “friend” and is looking for a way to get out of the long term relationship. Blowing up at him about a borrowed insignificant item is as good a catalyst as any to end the relationship. 

[st1800e]

I think the OP has enough advice from everyone who took the time to post.  

 

Up to him to move forward in the manner he chooses. 

 

Time to lock this up.  

[e-man]

Actually, that’s not true.  While it’s true that I don’t care about the club, this is a club that I freely lend out to others.  In fact, two days after I got the club back, my across the street neighbor borrowed it for the weekend some family members that he had in from out of town. I also lent it out last year to a two different friends.  In each case, they all returned it back to me when they were done with it. 

 

This person wasn’t using it, yet he felt that as long as it wasn’t my primary driver and I wasn’t using it, he could keep it.  Again, it’s wrong that I snapped at him.  He didn’t deserve that.  He could have handled the situation differently as well. 
 

I’ve called him twice over the past 2 days.  Left a message today.

[rogolf]

What the heck does this topic have to do with Rules of golf or golf etiquette?  More suited for the 19th hole, imo.

[st1800e]

21 minutes ago, rogolf said:

What the heck does this topic have to do with Rules of golf or golf etiquette?

I'm sure there's lots of Psychology/personal relationship  forums on the internet.  

[bcjim]

If it was a friend,  I'd ask "when are you bringing my #$%>_× driver back?

 

If it was an acquaintance,  I either wouldn't lend it or would ask politely for it to be returned. 

[deadsolid...shank]

Lot of condemnation on the OP about losing/risking a friendship over a relatively inexpensive item. To me, the cost is irrelevant. If you BORROW something, you return it. It’s a pretty simple concept. You don’t make the the lender have to ask for it back. 
 

Friendship is a two way street. Seems a good friend would be extremely adamant about getting it retuned. I get the impression he was hoping the OP would forget all about  the club. 

 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

On 8/22/2023 at 7:49 PM, rogolf said:

What the heck does this topic have to do with Rules of golf or golf etiquette?  More suited for the 19th hole, imo.

Etiquette about golf equipment……kind of. 

[e-man]

OP here with a quick update.  I called his cell on Monday, no answer, didn’t leave a message.  Called his cell again on Tuesday, no answer, left a message asking for him to give me a call when he had a chance.  By Sunday, when he hadn’t returned my call, I assumed he wasn’t going to so I sent him a text.   I said that I wanted to clear the air and apologize for snapping at him, that he didn’t deserve that, and that we’re too close and have been friends for too long to let this get between us.  He texted back about 5 hours later simply saying apology accepted and case closed.  I responded with a thumbs up.  
 

I appreciate all the helpful comments.  I really do see both sides here.  I do not believe he sees the other side, unfortunately.  I’d like to explain it to him at some point, but it’s just not worth it.