JB Weld Quick Epoxy ? If you had 1 epoxy only to rely on??

[Badknee]

If you have a local Harbor Freight you can save a few dollars on the sanding cones/rolls. Found these a few months back.

 

https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/sanding-discs-belts-sheets/sanding-sleeves-drums-cones/cones/sanding-cone-set-52-piece-62394.html

[rbpwrx]

9 hours ago, Nessism said:

Wrong.  A wire brush smears the hosel with all kinds of foreign material.  It doesn't clean it effectively.  For degreasing, alcohol is okay, but it's very mild.  Acetone is more effective, and MEK is better yet.  Why do you think professional companies like 3M recommend MEK?  

Then dip the BRUSH in acetone. Once. I've never had a failure in 30 yrs of club building from mechanical cleaning.

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by rbpwrx

[johngalt312]

6 hours ago, CircleC29 said:

I have a 3m epoxy gun but only have 1:1 and 2:1 plungers, can I buy just a 10:1 plunger for my 3m gun? Or does that require a different gun? Thanks. 

You can get a 10:1 plunger only.  Check Perigree Direct

[Orchardist]

I only set a shaft during a waning gibbous moon phase with a low incoming tide.  The gravitational pull really helps provide a proper bond.  

[Nessism]

12 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

Then dip the BRUSH in acetone. Once. I've never had a failure in 30 yrs of club building from mechanical cleaning.

 

 

Congratulations to you!  You're are being shortsighted, though.  As has been mentioned in a number of posts here in the past, not all hosel to shaft joints are the same.  Have you ever tried to reshaft some modern Ping's?  My guess is no, because you will get failures using your technique.  

 

Remember, people of all kinds of experience levels, building all kinds of different clubs, come here and read these threads.  Our advice should represent "best practice".  And that means abrading both the shaft and hosel with fresh sandpaper, followed by degreasing, before bonding.  Prep techniques suitable for some Mizuno's (which use a tight shaft to hosel fit), won't work for Ping's (which are loose, and have a short insertion depth).  So you would do well to error on the side of providing information that works for every application.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Nessism

[rbpwrx]

7 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

Congratulations to you!  You are being shortsighted, though.  As has been mentioned in a number of posts here in the past, not all hosel to shaft joints are the same.  Have you ever tried to reshaft some modern Ping's?  My guess is no, because you will get failures using your technique.  

 

Remember, people of all kinds of experience levels, building all kinds of different clubs, come here and read these threads.  Our advice should represent "best practice".  And that means abrading both the shaft and hosel with fresh sandpaper, followed by degreasing, before bonding.  Prep techniques suitable from some Mizuno's (which use a tight shaft to hosel fit), won't work for Ping's (which are loose, and have a short insertion depth).  So you would do well to error on the side of providing information that works for every application.  

fair enough. You're right, I avoid Pings like the plague, and am mostly working on old long-hosel blades. I can see it would be different with loose fit and/or short hosel.

[Valtiel]

3 minutes ago, rbpwrx said:

fair enough. You're right, I avoid Pings like the plague, and am mostly working on old long-hosel blades. I can see it would be different with loose fit and/or short hosel.

I agree too with the general sentiment that @Nessism put forward that general recommendations should ALWAYS follow best practices, because unless you e accounted for everything….

 

- Shaft Prep

- Hosel prep/cleaning

- Mechanical fit

- Epoxy type/mix thoroughness/application

- Curing time/temp

 

…then an insistence that doing one thing in a non-standard manner is no big deal since you’ve never had any failures is setting someone else up for one. The final strength of the bond is the sum of everything above, and your successes are likely partially in spite of non-standard prep. 

 

[Socrates]

19 hours ago, Nessism said:

..not all hosel to shaft joints are the same.  Have you ever tried to reshaft some modern Ping's?  My guess is no, because you will get failures using your technique.  

 

Remember, people of all kinds of experience levels, building all kinds of different clubs, come here and read these threads.  Our advice should represent "best practice".  And that means abrading both the shaft and hosel with fresh sandpaper, followed by degreasing, before bonding.  ... So you would do well to error on the side of providing information that works for every application.  

 

12 hours ago, Valtiel said:

I agree too with the general sentiment that @Nessism put forward that general recommendations should ALWAYS follow best practices, because unless you e accounted for everything….

- Shaft Prep   - Hosel prep/cleaning  - Mechanical fit  - Epoxy type/mix thoroughness/application  - Curing time/temp

 

…then an insistence that doing one thing in a non-standard manner is no big deal since you’ve never had any failures is setting someone else up for one. The final strength of the bond is the sum of everything above, and your successes are likely partially in spite of non-standard prep. 

 

That all being said, as long as the club I've taken apart has used good epoxy that breaks down under heat (not turn into a messy goo), A mechanical cleaning is sufficient to create a good bond.  Maybe not good enough for aerospace work, but certainly good enough for a golf club.  If in doubt, I will use acetone or alcohol to thoroughly clean a hosel.  Now, that being said, most are not experienced enough to know if a surface is clean and following the "full" cleaning regimen is recommended.    

[rbpwrx]

49 minutes ago, Socrates said:

 

That all being said, as long as the club I've taken apart has used good epoxy that breaks down under heat (not turn into a messy goo), A mechanical cleaning is sufficient to create a good bond.  Maybe not good enough for aerospace work, but certainly good enough for a golf club.  If in doubt, I will use acetone or alcohol to thoroughly clean a hosel.  Now, that being said, most are not experienced enough to know if a surface is clean and following the "full" cleaning regimen is recommended.    

tombola

[Nessism]

1 hour ago, Socrates said:

 

That all being said, as long as the club I've taken apart has used good epoxy that breaks down under heat (not turn into a messy goo), A mechanical cleaning is sufficient to create a good bond.  Maybe not good enough for aerospace work, but certainly good enough for a golf club.  If in doubt, I will use acetone or alcohol to thoroughly clean a hosel.  Now, that being said, most are not experienced enough to know if a surface is clean and following the "full" cleaning regimen is recommended.    

 

 

As covered in gory detail in the attached thread, I had multiple failures while reshafting some Ping G410 irons, because the epoxy wasn't sticking well to the hosel ID.  I cleaned those hosels using a wire brush on a drill motor, and the metal was free of old epoxy.  Quality epoxy was used.  Either 3M or Hysol, yet more failures.  It wasn't until I started to abrade the surface with a cartridge roll, and degrease with MEK, that the failures stopped.  I also switched to 3M acrylic adhesive (like Ping uses.)

 

Check this photo and note how clean the hosel is (after mechanical cleaning.)  Actually, this photo is after the shaft pulled out on the golf course.  Key takeaway from this is to show how the epoxy didn't stick to the hosel (it did stick well the shaft, though.)  Stainless steel is more difficult to bond to than carbon steel, or aluminum, and meticulous prepping is required (when building Ping's, anyway.)

 

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Nessism

[sui generis]

Thanks, fellas, for this learned hosel prep conversation (now that we've moved on from using the cheapest crap glue from Walmart.) 

[Socrates]

3 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

 

As covered in gory detail in the attached thread, I had multiple failures while reshafting some Ping G410 irons, because the epoxy wasn't sticking well to the hosel ID.  I cleaned those hosels using a wire brush on a drill motor, and the metal was free of old epoxy.  Quality epoxy was used.  Either 3M or Hysol, yet more failures.  It wasn't until I started to abrade the surface with a cartridge roll, and degrease with MEK, that the failures stopped.  I also switched to 3M acrylic adhesive (like Ping uses.)

 

Check this photo and note how clean the hosel is (after mechanical cleaning.)  Actually, this photo is after the shaft pulled out on the golf course.  Key takeaway from this is to show how the epoxy didn't stick to the hosel (it did stick well the shaft, though.)  Stainless steel is more difficult to bond to than carbon steel, or aluminum, and meticulous prepping is required (when building Ping's, anyway.)

 

 

 

 

I don't use the wire brush (except on the aluminum adaptors).  I use an abrasive bit in a dremel as I find them far better than the sandpaper cones.  That ensures that I don't polish the inside of the hosel (as shown in your picture) which is what leads to failures. Nothing for the epoxy to bond to.    

[russian7]

9 hours ago, Socrates said:

I don't use the wire brush (except on the aluminum adaptors).  I use an abrasive bit in a dremel as I find them far better than the sandpaper cones.  That ensures that I don't polish the inside of the hosel (as shown in your picture) which is what leads to failures. Nothing for the epoxy to bond to.    

Which bit or dremel tool?

[Socrates]

10 hours ago, russian7 said:

Which bit or dremel tool?

It's a 1/4 mounted abrasive bit (1/8" shank)  that I buy from a local industrial supply company.  I buy about 50-100 at a time which can last me a long time depending on how many clubs I do in a year.  I don't do a lot of repairs any more so I might only use 5-10 a year.   I used to go thru 100+ a year.   Attached is what it looks like and what I ask for when I go to order them.  This order was from 2016 (first one I found) and the price has likely risen a lot since then.  I think the last time I bought 25 of them for about $50 Cdn.  You can find them on eBay or Amazon, but usually one or two at some crazy price.  I found this was a good size since it fits into a wood hosel.  I use them for many other things too (reaming out ferrules, sharpening, etc...)

 

 

[tilasan]

For 3M DP8401NS what is the normal dry time with no heat?

[Nessism]

On 10/13/2023 at 10:52 PM, CircleC29 said:

I have a 3m epoxy gun but only have 1:1 and 2:1 plungers, can I buy just a 10:1 plunger for my 3m gun? Or does that require a different gun? Thanks. 

 

Pretty sure I've got a spare 10:1 3M plunger.  PM me if interested...

[sui generis]

10 hours ago, Socrates said:

It's a 1/4 mounted abrasive bit (1/8" shank)  that I buy from a local industrial supply company.  I buy about 50-100 at a time which can last me a long time depending on how many clubs I do in a year.  I don't do a lot of repairs any more so I might only use 5-10 a year.   I used to go thru 100+ a year.   Attached is what it looks like and what I ask for when I go to order them.  This order was from 2016 (first one I found) and the price has likely risen a lot since then.  I think the last time I bought 25 of them for about $50 Cdn.  You can find them on eBay or Amazon, but usually one or two at some crazy price.  I found this was a good size since it fits into a wood hosel.  I use them for many other things too (reaming out ferrules, sharpening, etc...)

 

 

 

This looks good. I manage with a rat-tail file, though I expect your prep is better.

[russian7]

11 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

This looks good. I manage with a rat-tail file, though I expect your prep is better.

I was using the wire brush on dril or i used a drill bit and ran it inside hisel or hand scraped the bit inside the hosel

[dekez]

I normally use Golfworks with great success.  I just tried the 3M DP8410NS based on this thread.  A couple of things:

 

- Jeebus, it stinks. Lots of ventilation needed

 

- It's kinda messy.  When using the Golfworks, I just rub off the extra epoxy with a paper or cloth towel.  This doesnt work so well with the 3M.  Threads from the bounty paper towel and a cotton towel attach themselves to the slightest bit of residue.  I'll have to use acetone to clean up the ferrules after I'm done.

[Nessism]

1 hour ago, dekez said:

I normally use Golfworks with great success.  I just tried the 3M DP8410NS based on this thread.  A couple of things:

 

- Jeebus, it stinks. Lots of ventilation needed

 

- It's kinda messy.  When using the Golfworks, I just rub off the extra epoxy with a paper or cloth towel.  This doesnt work so well with the 3M.  Threads from the bounty paper towel and a cotton towel attach themselves to the slightest bit of residue.  I'll have to use acetone to clean up the ferrules after I'm done.

 

That tenacious attachment to the metal is what makes 8410 so awesome.  It sticks to the metal better than anything else I've found.

[russian7]

21 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

That tenacious attachment to the metal is what makes 8410 so awesome.  It sticks to the metal better than anything else I've found.

Graphite as well and it's easy to pull for graphite adapters and stuff as well?

[TKS]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:00 PM, Phabs said:

I’d stay with acetone.  MEK is nasty stuff, we use to use it to treat race car slicks.  Everything known to man that causes cancer is in it 

Man, whats wrong with simple alcohol wipes. No residue, fast drying and cheap.

[Phabs]

1 hour ago, russian7 said:

Graphite as well and it's easy to pull for graphite adapters and stuff as well?

Jesus man… just buy the 3m another 1000 questions isnt going to change anything.

 

If you’d do a search you’d answer literally every question you’ve asked here.  Every single one.  
 

No golf epoxy cares if it’s graphite or steel… it’s epoxy that’s made for holding a clubhead to a shaft.  Whether it’s steel or graphite doesn’t make a damn bit of difference. 

[russian7]

12 hours ago, Phabs said:

Jesus man… just buy the 3m another 1000 questions isnt going to change anything.

 

If you’d do a search you’d answer literally every question you’ve asked here.  Every single one.  
 

No golf epoxy cares if it’s graphite or steel… it’s epoxy that’s made for holding a clubhead to a shaft.  Whether it’s steel or graphite doesn’t make a damn bit of difference. 

Bro you must be some epoxy specialist or something, and Im not, that's what the forum is here for I'm asking questions and I already bought the 3M and cartridge I'm just simply asking questions because every epoxy is different in the heat temperatures to remove clubs just like the JB product which all these guys on here recommended and then I find out you have to heat it too much and it ruins the adapters and graphite so that's the reason I'm asking it's much easier to ask a question and have some knowledgeable guys answer then sit on here and search pages for hours to try and figure out what's what.  And don't get mad that I'm asking questions on my own post if you don't like it then save your time and don't reply with negative comments on my post it obviously took some time to type and you could have saved yourself the grief of getting mad about my questions

Edited October 18, 2023 by russian7

[swgolf12]

On 10/2/2023 at 4:34 PM, russian7 said:

What is the process to heat cure

 

I built a tiny wooden box and put an old incandescent light bulb in it, gets up to about 140*F and i'll put all my builds in there for a few hours after to help the epoxy cure. Since I've been doing that haven't had any failures regardless of epoxy.

[autronicdsm]

5 hours ago, russian7 said:

Bro you must be some epoxy specialist or something, and Im not, that's what the forum is here for I'm asking questions and I already bought the 3M and cartridge I'm just simply asking questions because every epoxy is different in the heat temperatures to remove clubs just like the JB product which all these guys on here recommended and then I find out you have to heat it too much and it ruins the adapters and graphite so that's the reason I'm asking it's much easier to ask a question and have some knowledgeable guys answer then sit on here and search pages for hours to try and figure out what's what.  And don't get mad that I'm asking questions on my own post if you don't like it then save your time and don't reply with negative comments on my post it obviously took some time to type and you could have saved yourself the grief of getting mad about my questions

 

Dude, just use a golf specific epoxy and you wouldn't have to worry about all these factors...

For every person that says they had bunch of failures there's probably thousands of actual club builders that use them and had no failures.

[johngalt312]

On 10/17/2023 at 5:51 PM, dekez said:

I normally use Golfworks with great success.  I just tried the 3M DP8410NS based on this thread.  A couple of things:

 

- Jeebus, it stinks. Lots of ventilation needed

 

- It's kinda messy.  When using the Golfworks, I just rub off the extra epoxy with a paper or cloth towel.  This doesnt work so well with the 3M.  Threads from the bounty paper towel and a cotton towel attach themselves to the slightest bit of residue.  I'll have to use acetone to clean up the ferrules after I'm done.

 

[RobS]

On 10/17/2023 at 6:51 PM, dekez said:

I normally use Golfworks with great success.  I just tried the 3M DP8410NS based on this thread.  A couple of things:

 

- Jeebus, it stinks. Lots of ventilation needed

 

- It's kinda messy.  When using the Golfworks, I just rub off the extra epoxy with a paper or cloth towel.  This doesnt work so well with the 3M.  Threads from the bounty paper towel and a cotton towel attach themselves to the slightest bit of residue.  I'll have to use acetone to clean up the ferrules after I'm done.

It does stink!  DP810 takes care of that problem but it does come at a high price tag these days.  I put a little mineral spirits on the paper towel to clean up the hosel and ferrule after I wipe off any excess adhesive.

[rbpwrx]

19 hours ago, autronicdsm said:

Dude, just use a golf specific epoxy and you wouldn't have to worry about all these factors...

For every person that says they had bunch of failures there's probably thousands of actual club builders that use them and had no failures.

Maybe. I personally avoid Brampton's like the plague after multiple failures many years ago. It's possible they have improved their formulations since.

 

Most builders I know select their adhesives based on physical characteristics. Shear, peel, temperature break, etc. 

 

It's possible Golfworks also has good product now. Again, after unimpressive results many years ago, I have never returned.
 

Of course, none of those brands actually manufacture their glues. I'd want to know where that stuff is actually coming from.

 

I usually avoid golf specific adhesives, because they feel a little gimmicky and "consumer targeted."

 

I use different adhesives for different purposes, golf and otherwise. SystemThree makes a good metal epoxy. I do use JB Weld sometimes for steel-shafted irons because I have independently assessed its technical characteristics, and because it works well in my experience, feels good in the club (perhaps due to the metal particles, and particular lack of brittleness). Being able to get it around the corner in a pinch is also a plus.

 

Graphite is a different and more delicate story, as many have mentioned.

 

But just because a product says "golf," or "spaceship," doesn't mean it's the ideal substance for that purpose. Caveat emptor.

[Socrates]

4 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

Maybe. I personally avoid Brampton's like the plague after multiple failures many years ago. It's possible they have improved their formulations since.

 

Most builders I know select their adhesives based on physical characteristics. Shear, peel, temperature break, etc. 

 

It's possible Golfworks also has good product now. Again, after unimpressive results many years ago, I have never returned.
 

Of course, none of those brands actually manufacture their glues. I'd want to know where that stuff is actually coming from.

 

I usually avoid golf specific adhesives, because they feel a little gimmicky and "consumer targeted."

 

I use different adhesives for different purposes, golf and otherwise. SystemThree makes a good metal epoxy. I do use JB Weld sometimes for steel-shafted irons because I have independently assessed its technical characteristics, and because it works well in my experience, feels good in the club (perhaps due to the metal particles, and particular lack of brittleness). Being able to get it around the corner in a pinch is also a plus.

 

Graphite is a different and more delicate story, as many have mentioned.

 

But just because a product says "golf," or "spaceship," doesn't mean it's the ideal substance for that purpose. Caveat emptor.

To each his own.  Good to see you did your homework.  Almost any epoxy that has decent characteristics (strength, shear, elasticity, breakdown temp, etc...) is likely good for golf clubs.  The two biggest things to look for are what is the breakdown temp and how brittle is it?  I would say that 99% of failures aren't due to the epoxy, but user error in one way or another. 

That being said, I have never had a failure using the Golfworks High Impact Epoxy VB1001 in over 10 years.  It's a real good epoxy and I don't stray from it even though I have been tempted by the 3M DP 4810 that is highly touted here.

 

Prep, prep, prep and being meticulous about your epoxy are the keys to success.