JB Weld Quick Epoxy ? If you had 1 epoxy only to rely on??

[Valtiel]

4 hours ago, russian7 said:

So you can use 24hr cure and just set in front of a space heater and likely be ready in a few hours?

Correct, as long as the joint is reaching that target temperature and is allowed to cool after. 
 

1 hour ago, jacobanderson123 said:

Consensus on 3m 810 as opposed to 8410?

The thing I don't love about 810 on paper is the breakdown temp. According to the tech docs, DP810 loses 45% of its lap shear strength at 120*F. The "base" lap shear value at 72*F is excellent for golf purposes, but 120*F is easily possible inside a hot trunk during the summer time (if you live in a warm climate), and that 45% hit takes it below some of the safe minimums for golf. DP8410 does not have this problem as it both has a slightly higher base lap shear value AND only loses 15% of that value at 120*F, still well within the safe range for golf. It takes 180*F for DP8410 to lose the same strength that DP180 does at 120*F, and therefore is the no brainer for me if you live in a warmer climate, otherwise DP810 is fine and will also be easier to pull should you need to. 

[dbdors]

15 hours ago, russian7 said:

What is the process to heat cure

I have used a card board box on its side with club inside and small heater blowing in the box.  Also just pointed a small heater as the club.  Both worked.

[russian7]

15 hours ago, Nessism said:

 

Describe "meticulous prepping?"

 

Edit:  This is "meticulous prepping..."

 

1) When first pulling the head, use a stainless steel wire brush tool, on a drill motor, along with a small screwdriver or scraping tool, and remove all visible epoxy out of the hosel.  Same for the shaft.  It's much easier to remove the epoxy while it's hot.

 

2) Wash out the hosel ID using MEK or acetone.  Cotton swabs are great for this.  Wipe the inside of the hosel until a fresh swab comes out clean.

 

3) Abrade the ID of the hosel using a 100 grit sandpaper roll sleeve on a rotating mandrel.  Similar on the shaft OD, but regular sandpaper is fine.

 

4) Wash out the hosel ID using MEK or acetone AGAIN.  Wipe until clean.

 

5) Allow the solvent to properly evaporate, and the club will be read for assembly.

 

Of course, there is more than just this when it comes to getting a proper bond.  The shaft should be properly spaced in the hosel, using shims, collared ferrules, etc, as required.  And don't go cheap on the epoxy.  I personally don't like Bramptons epoxy because it's thin and runny.  It can slide out of the joint before firming up.  3M is the gold standard.  There are many options including true "epoxy" options like DP420/460, or acrylic adhesive choices as well.  All are miles better than gorilla epoxy or JB Weld.

 

 

 

Hey I saw your other post on dp410ns with a 10:1 plunger...i was going buy some on amazon, does any 10:1 plunger work with the dp410ns ? I assume the 1:1 or 2:1 plungers won't work?

[Nessism]

9 minutes ago, russian7 said:

Hey I saw your other post on dp410ns with a 10:1 plunger...i was going buy some on amazon, does any 10:1 plunger work with the dp410ns ? I assume the 1:1 or 2:1 plungers won't work?

 

You need the 10:1 plunger.  A guy in this thread posted a link to a seemingly appropriate gun from ebay for cheap.  Did you check this out?  

[russian7]

9 minutes ago, Nessism said:

 

You need the 10:1 plunger.  A guy in this thread posted a link to a seemingly appropriate gun from ebay for cheap.  Did you check this out?  

Thanks yes, seller was away i would prefer amazon prime

[autronicdsm]

On 10/2/2023 at 3:27 PM, russian7 said:

Lots of builders use the jb products in caseyou didn't realize that,many threads on here to support that. I used brampton for years and had lots of fails with meticulous prepping

 

Can't be that meticulous if you had multiple failures! Do you even know how to do it?

 

How much epoxy do you apply and where?

Edited October 4, 2023 by autronicdsm

[Ger21]

11 minutes ago, autronicdsm said:

I used brampton for years and had lots of fails with meticulous prepping

Been using Bramptons 20/20 Long Cure for 4-5 years, zero failures. I've actually never had a failure in 35 years of building clubs. 150-200 clubs I'd guess. Used Golfsmith before the Brampton's.

[GooseHook]

On 10/2/2023 at 3:42 PM, Phabs said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145078286847

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115535344300

 

Buy those two and you'll never have to even think about it again. 

Purchased. Thanks for the links! 

[russian7]

9 hours ago, autronicdsm said:

 

Can't be that meticulous if you had multiple failures! Do you even know how to do it?

 

How much epoxy do you apply and where?

Omg lol of course done 1000s no issues but brampton ive had issues with using quick cure, prepping sanding acetone etc an failure

[russian7]

9 hours ago, Ger21 said:

Been using Bramptons 20/20 Long Cure for 4-5 years, zero failures. I've actually never had a failure in 35 years of building clubs. 150-200 clubs I'd guess. Used Golfsmith before the Brampton's.

Ive only had issues with quick cure off amazon, usually i am playing or guys here want quick turnaround so i use that but def had a few failures. Ive never been too confident as when it sits part A gets clumpy so Brampton said to run it under water 1st and shld be fine, i was thinking the amazon stuff could be older?

[sheepdawg]

I've used J.B. Weld, never a problem. Some folks get the designer grip solvent too. Paint thinner has also worked for me. Hell I've used gasoline.

[Ger21]

8 hours ago, russian7 said:

Ive never been too confident as when it sits part A gets clumpy so Brampton said to run it under water 1st and should be fine,

I've bought all mine from Amazon.

The Part A in the long cure does get thicker too, especially in cooler weather. When it does, I just drop it in a cup of hot water for 10 minutes, and it gets nice and thin.

[russian7]

3 hours ago, Ger21 said:

I've bought all mine from Amazon.

The Part A in the long cure does get thicker too, especially in cooler weather. When it does, I just drop it in a cup of hot water for 10 minutes, and it gets nice and thin.

Yeah well what I have noticed on the few failures I have had with it is when you pull the club apart it looks like the chunky part A like it never cured... all of the failures were over time some of them months but then just came apart

[russian7]

The JB Weld has been a great as far as durability and reliability thus far using it the only problem is it seems to take way too much heat to pull adapters off of graphite

[Socrates]

39 minutes ago, russian7 said:

The JB Weld has been a great as far as durability and reliability thus far using it the only problem is it seems to take way too much heat to pull adapters off of graphite

 

That's kind of like saying a cross-threaded bolt works great...Until you have to take it apart.

 

 

I've never had an issue with the High Impact Epoxy VB1001 in all the years (10+) that I've used it.  Never a failure and has never gone bad.  I can let it cure in 24 or accelerate it in an hour.  And doesn't require crazy heat to pull a club apart.  Would I use JB weld in a pinch?  Sure, but not in an adaptor with a $$$ shaft in it.

 

[tilasan]

On 10/2/2023 at 12:42 PM, Phabs said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145078286847

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115535344300

 

Buy those two and you'll never have to even think about it again. 

thanks for the links!!

[Ri_Redneck]

On 10/2/2023 at 4:34 PM, russian7 said:

What is the process to heat cure

Being a Redneck engineer, when I got into clubmaking back in '86 one of the first "experiments" I conducted was choosing the epoxy to use. At that time, Golfsmith, Golfworks and Dynacraft were the suppliers of choice. All sold 24 hr epoxy and "Quick set" 1 hr epoxy. I bought all 6 and tested them in this highly technical fashion. I measured, mixed and cured them per the instruction on each container. I did this in the small mixing cups available from all of the mentioned suppliers. Once the epoxy was cured, I cut the cup off the block of cured epoxy, placed it on my concrete garage floor and hit it HARD with my 16 oz framing hammer. All of the 1 hr epoxies shattered like a pane of glass and all of the 24hr epoxies simply cracked in half (IIRC, one took two hits!). THAT is why I have always used 24 hr epoxy.

 

A few years later, I learned about heat curing to get the job done quicker. I tested this by building a wooden 3-sided box (sides only) 4" deep. This allowed all clubheads to fit within up to the top of the ferrule. I cover the top with a thin (1/8") piece of plywood leaving a 1" gap at the back. I placed a digital thermometer inside where I could read it through the gap and sat my heat gun about a foot away on the floor. I turned it on low and watched to see what temp I got to. After some moving around, I found the proper distance for the heat gun to the box to get a fairly consistent 140* F. The first club I built using this method was an old 1 iron and a DG S300 shaft. I cured it for 1 hr, took it out and proceeded to beat the crap out of a bunch balls hitting as many as possible on the toe of the club. It passed that test, so I proceeded to put the shaft in my club vice as tight as possible and beat on it with my framing hammer. It passed this test too, so I was comfortable that I had proved that a 1 hr heat cure of the 24 hr epoxy would be okay for my playing clubs.

 

All that being said, I would like to, in closing, touch on the bold part of my first paragraph where I mentioned mixing the epoxies. I have used 1:1 and 2:1 epoxies and I have also used Volume measured and Weight measured epoxies. I can't stress how important it is to be ACCURATE in measuring the parts as this is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT in the curing process and the strength of the finished product. DO NOT assume that 1:1 just means dots of the approximate same size on a piece of cardboard. That MAY work and it may NOT! Wehn mixing, I mix for 2 full minutes working the parts together fully until I have no doubt that they are thoroughly blended. In cleaning the hosels, I have always used acetone and an oil-less air compressor to clean them out after all residue is scraped from the sides and bottom. I have used a small ball Dremel bit to score the inside of smooth hosels and I have ALWAYS scraped graphite shafts and hand sanded steel with 150 grit sandpaper. I sand the inside of ferrules with 150 grit also. In 37 years, I have had ZERO failures with this process and components.

 

Sorry for the long post, but it seemed like a through account was needed.

 

BT

Edited October 5, 2023 by Ri_Redneck

[Socrates]

2 hours ago, Ri_Redneck said:

 I cut the cup off the block of cured epoxy, placed it on my concrete garage floor and hit it HARD with my 16 oz framing hammer. All of the 1 hr epoxies shattered like a pane of glass and all of the 24hr epoxies simply cracked in half (IIRC, one took two hits!). THAT is why I have always used 24 hr epoxy.

 

I can't stress how important it is to be ACCURATE in measuring the parts as this is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT in the curing process and the strength of the finished product. DO NOT assume that 1:1 just means dots of the approximate same size on a piece of cardboard. That MAY work and it may NOT! When mixing, I mix for 2 full minutes working the parts together fully until I have no doubt that they are thoroughly blended. 

 

BT

It's not that the 1 hr epoxies wouldn't stay together, but the shattering shows how much more brittle and hard they are and that isn't better when it comes to golf equipment.  A good bond with something that has some elasticity to it, is better.

 

I too can't stress enough the thorough mixing aspect.  Get every last bit of the 2 parts well mixed together.  That's where many go wrong.   I see it done poorly/haphazardly on almost every video.  Even by the "pros."

[Even Further]

Just wanted to add a good prepping solvent here if anyone is interested.

This is an autobody product but works wonders for many things. Wax and grease remover solvent is perfect for club building and prepping things for paint and adhesion. It's a medium potent solvent. It works better than mineral spirits, and it not crazy potent like MEK. MEK is some really nasty strong solvent.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Kleanstrip-Prep-All-Grease-Remover-KLE-GSW362/dp/B008QDSVPE/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3040EB6STPHLS&keywords=wax+grease+remover&qid=1696601110&sprefix=wax+grease+remover%2Caps%2C111&sr=8-6

[Ger21]

16 hours ago, Socrates said:

I too can't stress enough the thorough mixing aspect.  Get every last bit of the 2 parts well mixed together.  That's where many go wrong.

Agree 100%. Mix twice as long as you think, then mix another 50% longer, and most failures would be a thing of the past.

[autronicdsm]

On 10/5/2023 at 10:42 AM, russian7 said:

The JB Weld has been a great as far as durability and reliability thus far using it the only problem is it seems to take way too much heat to pull adapters off of graphite

 

And way too much heat damages the shaft. Just step away from building clubs.

[Socrates]

On 10/5/2023 at 9:42 AM, russian7 said:

The JB Weld has been a great as far as durability and reliability thus far using it the only problem is it seems to take way too much heat to pull adapters off of graphite

 

1 hour ago, autronicdsm said:

 

And way too much heat damages the shaft. Just step away from building clubs.

There really are no issues if you are dealing with steel shafts.  Just graphite.

[dekez]

9 hours ago, Even Further said:

Just wanted to add a good prepping solvent here if anyone is interested.

This is an autobody product but works wonders for many things. Wax and grease remover solvent is perfect for club building and prepping things for paint and adhesion. It's a medium potent solvent. It works better than mineral spirits, and it not crazy potent like MEK. MEK is some really nasty strong solvent.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Kleanstrip-Prep-All-Grease-Remover-KLE-GSW362/dp/B008QDSVPE/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3040EB6STPHLS&keywords=wax+grease+remover&qid=1696601110&sprefix=wax+grease+remover%2Caps%2C111&sr=8-6

 

I go with acetone for prep and VM&P naphtha for grips.

 

[autronicdsm]

7 hours ago, Socrates said:

 

There really are no issues if you are dealing with steel shafts.  Just graphite.

 

Right, that's what I was replying to 

[st1800e]

This is like the classic auto forum, what’s the best motor oil? 
All comments are anecdotes, this works for me, never had a failure, easy to remove, etc.   And a some that failed….

With the proper prep etc, all golf specific epoxies work.   Period.   

[sui generis]

11 minutes ago, st1800e said:

With the proper prep etc, all golf specific epoxies work.   Period.   

 

Right, use what the pros use. Hobbyists and garage builders can glue with Elmers and regrip with peanut butter or nitro glycerine, who cares. 😉

[Arlin964]

I am another 3M DP8410NS success story. Follow @Nessism’s instructions and you will be good. 
 

How’s this for foolproof: on my very first ever attempt of reshafting, I did a set of Ping i230s (spacious hosel) with collared ferrules from Golfworks, no shims, and on a couple of the clubs I wasn’t 100% confident on the adhesive application. But even after a few times of clubs being in my car in the Dallas summer (campervan that is ventilated, so only slightly warmer than ambient), I’ve played those pings for about 10 rounds with no failures. 
 

If that is not evidence of a quality adhesive, I don’t know what is. 

[russian7]

On 10/5/2023 at 1:59 PM, Ri_Redneck said:

Being a Redneck engineer, when I got into clubmaking back in '86 one of the first "experiments" I conducted was choosing the epoxy to use. At that time, Golfsmith, Golfworks and Dynacraft were the suppliers of choice. All sold 24 hr epoxy and "Quick set" 1 hr epoxy. I bought all 6 and tested them in this highly technical fashion. I measured, mixed and cured them per the instruction on each container. I did this in the small mixing cups available from all of the mentioned suppliers. Once the epoxy was cured, I cut the cup off the block of cured epoxy, placed it on my concrete garage floor and hit it HARD with my 16 oz framing hammer. All of the 1 hr epoxies shattered like a pane of glass and all of the 24hr epoxies simply cracked in half (IIRC, one took two hits!). THAT is why I have always used 24 hr epoxy.

 

A few years later, I learned about heat curing to get the job done quicker. I tested this by building a wooden 3-sided box (sides only) 4" deep. This allowed all clubheads to fit within up to the top of the ferrule. I cover the top with a thin (1/8") piece of plywood leaving a 1" gap at the back. I placed a digital thermometer inside where I could read it through the gap and sat my heat gun about a foot away on the floor. I turned it on low and watched to see what temp I got to. After some moving around, I found the proper distance for the heat gun to the box to get a fairly consistent 140* F. The first club I built using this method was an old 1 iron and a DG S300 shaft. I cured it for 1 hr, took it out and proceeded to beat the crap out of a bunch balls hitting as many as possible on the toe of the club. It passed that test, so I proceeded to put the shaft in my club vice as tight as possible and beat on it with my framing hammer. It passed this test too, so I was comfortable that I had proved that a 1 hr heat cure of the 24 hr epoxy would be okay for my playing clubs.

 

All that being said, I would like to, in closing, touch on the bold part of my first paragraph where I mentioned mixing the epoxies. I have used 1:1 and 2:1 epoxies and I have also used Volume measured and Weight measured epoxies. I can't stress how important it is to be ACCURATE in measuring the parts as this is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT in the curing process and the strength of the finished product. DO NOT assume that 1:1 just means dots of the approximate same size on a piece of cardboard. That MAY work and it may NOT! Wehn mixing, I mix for 2 full minutes working the parts together fully until I have no doubt that they are thoroughly blended. In cleaning the hosels, I have always used acetone and an oil-less air compressor to clean them out after all residue is scraped from the sides and bottom. I have used a small ball Dremel bit to score the inside of smooth hosels and I have ALWAYS scraped graphite shafts and hand sanded steel with 150 grit sandpaper. I sand the inside of ferrules with 150 grit also. In 37 years, I have had ZERO failures with this process and components.

 

Sorry for the long post, but it seemed like a through account was needed.

 

BT

So how car away was the heat gun or what about juat setting a space heater in front of the clubs and when would you know if its done or cured

[russian7]

19 hours ago, Socrates said:

 

There really are no issues if you are dealing with steel shafts.  Just graphite.

Yeah I didn't know that I took recommendations from guys on here and some of them said that JB Weld they never had any problems with even on graphite so I just did 5 to 10 recently for me and some buddies clubs and the one that I went to pull off was so hard to get off I'm not going to do that again

[Righty to Lefty]

On 10/3/2023 at 3:39 AM, Valtiel said:

Correct, as long as the joint is reaching that target temperature and is allowed to cool after. 
 

The thing I don't love about 810 on paper is the breakdown temp. According to the tech docs, DP810 loses 45% of its lap shear strength at 120*F. The "base" lap shear value at 72*F is excellent for golf purposes, but 120*F is easily possible inside a hot trunk during the summer time (if you live in a warm climate), and that 45% hit takes it below some of the safe minimums for golf. DP8410 does not have this problem as it both has a slightly higher base lap shear value AND only loses 15% of that value at 120*F, still well within the safe range for golf. It takes 180*F for DP8410 to lose the same strength that DP180 does at 120*F, and therefore is the no brainer for me if you live in a warmer climate, otherwise DP810 is fine and will also be easier to pull should you need to. 

This is easily the air temperature in the middle east in the summer. If you leave your clubs in the trunk in the middle east in the summer all your club heads are gonna fall off!!