Has it finally gotten to the point where new drivers really aren't better than the prior model?

[Flip4000]

I am of the opinion that not every new driver that comes out is better for everyone, however it is better for someone.

 

I think new drivers at this point are just refinements  filling gaps in their line ups for customers who couldn't find a prior model that fit them. More tweaks than dramatic changes.

 

Some companies have continued to progress, but they were a bit behind to begin with like titleist. Their TSR line for me really does blow the prior generation out of the water.

 

Ping with the 430 they didn't necessarily change performance, but they finally gave customers what they wanted which was improved sound. 

 

There are still lots of ways to improve "performance" for consumers that doesn't just mean hitting the ball farther 

 

 

[Binson]

Best way to go find out is to try it or have a fitting. 

[RolandofGilead]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Your 975J was $500.

And that price was ridiculous. I am glad these can be had for $50 now!

[raspymcnasty]

TSR2 best driver ive ever played. However, I would be perfectly happy with a old driver like a RBZ. Short game is where its at 🙂

[TwistedSister]

14 hours ago, joostin said:

To add to the forgiveness that everyone is correctly saying... Physically, and due to having max MOI and max COR/CT constraints, we can't get to a perfect driver head capable of 1.5 smash or .83 COR across the entire face.  But engineering can continue getting better and better on expanding the area that maintains high ball speed retention.  It will never get to perfection, but that's engineering's job to find ways to get closer to it.  G430 Max and SLDR are both 460cc and both limited to the same max COR when hit on the screws, but we all know what's more forgiving on mishits.

 

Until we get to perfection (never), we will continue having incremental design improvements, realized or not.

My SLDR is a 430

[Chunkitgood]

I have seen no evidence that any incremental increases in the ability of drivers to maintain speed on mishits across the face, input any, are of such a magnitude as to make any difference to many golfers.

 

It seems obvious that any such improvement would benefit the expert golfer more than the average golfer.

[Shilgy]

5 hours ago, TwistedSister said:

My SLDR is a 430

So is my TSR4

[TwistedSister]

54 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

So is my TSR4

They don't make them for leftys anymore.  So I am kind of stuck.  Have trouble looking at a 460 w/o laughing to myself!

[zengineer]

Any time something is evolving/improving at a slow pace, it is necessary to look at a larger set of data (longer time span) to see what is really going on.   If we stick with Drivers I think most would concede they are "better" than 40 years ago, and that it didn't happen overnight, and that not every advancement was actually a step in the right direction for every golfer.

 

It hasn't stopped and never will.   We are at the very early stage of using AI to optimize design,  material technology hasn't stopped advancing, and the tools to measure results are still evolving.   But again...a slow and not always positive for everyone every time.

 

In 2050, your kids or grandkids either will not be caught dead carrying 2023 clubs...or carry them just to brag about how they carry a Paradym X because it is so much more workable than the 2047 Callaway Insurection Driver.

 

Putters on the other hand are a whole other thing.   If you can't make a 3 footer, your putter shaft is not the limiting factor.

Edited October 13, 2023 by zengineer

[manima1]

3 hours ago, zengineer said:

In 2050, your kids or grandkids either will not be caught dead carrying 2023 clubs...or carry them just to brag about how they carry a Paradym X because it is so much more workable than the 2047 Callaway Insurection Driver.

 

 

This is fantastic 🤣 Well done and much needed on this thread.

[phizzy30]

On 10/9/2023 at 12:04 PM, karstens_ghost said:

Dispersion and spin control are getting better. The CoR isn't changing, so ya, there's only so much that can be picked up on distance. But those longer drives are getting better on average. Shafts are SO much better! The combinations fitters have are really dialled in to individuals, so "better" may not be what you're outwardly seeing… but if it's two yards closer to target each time, that's a big deal.

Agree.  I'm seeing the least amount of curve for driver than I have in a long time with the Paradym TD.  I think driver and shaft tech has gotten better incrementally over the years to really tighten up dispersion and keep spin consistent as well as being more forgiving across the face overall.  Golfers aren't gonna see 20+ yards off the tee unless their previous driver was a total misfit.  I know I'm pretty much maxed out distance wise, but it's always nice to have more forgiveness and consistency with driver. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by phizzy30

[golf-RN]

Lexi was playing the Radspeed driver at the Shriner's so go figure

[SurfDuffer]

Most golfers are suckers for MARKETING.  Drivers and Fairway Woods really haven't made any significant improvements in the past 10 years since adjustable hosels came along.   To answer the original post golf company's marketing departments are just running our of ways to dupe some golfers into buying new stuff.

[Jackal]

I usually buy the trade in clubs from people that change every year.

Most of the time my driver will be 5 years old.

We were hitting the new Paradym driver and it was a big improvement over my Epic Flash.

The guy told me to try the Rogue ST and see if I liked it.

That Rogue was perfect for me, and a lot cheaper.

I won't change a club 'just because' .

But if it is better, then that's what sells me .

My Son can feel difference from the Rogue to the Paradym, but I can't.

To me it has to be proven before I'll change.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Jackal

[phizzy30]

3 hours ago, SurfDuffer said:

Most golfers are suckers for MARKETING.  Drivers and Fairway Woods really haven't made any significant improvements in the past 10 years since adjustable hosels came along.   To answer the original post golf company's marketing departments are just running our of ways to dupe some golfers into buying new stuff.

I'd say more forgiveness across the face is a significant improvement when it comes to drivers.  My ball isn't curving off the planet on a mishit and are much more playable nowadays. 

[SJP1]

Tested TSR3 and G430 LST against my G410 LST earlier this year. The fitter agreed that the numbers from the newer heads were no better at all.

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

It seems like it just depends on the person holding the club.  For example I have a friend that has played the Ping G400 max since it first came out. One of the most forgiving drivers released till this day. He has been a very bad and inconsistent driver. Like his average FIR based off of The Grint was under 20%. He has taken lessons after lessons. But can smoke a 3 iron with ease. And still struggled driving the ball. Then he gets his hands on a Titleist TSr2 driver with a stock hzrdus shaft unfitted mind you sometime in May. Now his FIR since getting the TSr2 is averaging above 45% now. In some cases yes newer drivers are better. In other cases like myself using a Titleist TS3 still isn’t any better. 
 

[Tiptx1122]

The same goes for irons as one year to the next isn't a drastic improvement as it's mostly cosmetics. When people go out and buy the newest driver very seldom will you hear anything about their previous model being better especially if they stick with the same brand. When it does happen what is sad is there are many times people don't allow for an adjustment period and they get all upset and bash the driver or set of irons on these forums only because they didn't receive that honeymoon effect they were expecting. These places on line where they give you 30 day trail money back is the way to go. The way I see it is everything is pretty much Max'ed out 

[hagimihale]

One well-known YT channel did a titleist comparision, from 910 through the TS series.  Each driver gained an average of 2-3 yards.  Conclusion was that moving from the previous model to current model was just an incremental benefit, but upgrading from several generations ago is probably justified.

 

Personally, I went from TSi3 to TSR3 because I had a lot of credit at Dicks, and they mispriced the upgrade to a VA Drago shaft I wanted to try out.  I'm very happy with TSR3, but had no complaints with TSi3 and could easily go back to it.