LAB vs Axis1.. A1 Tech Makes More Sense to Me

[snowmangolf]

After spending a lot of time researching the tech that both companies are offering and watching quite a few video reviews, my opinion is that the Axis1 tech is more helpful than the LAB tech. 

 

While I totally understand the idea behind having zero torque in your putter, wouldn’t it be even better if the only “torque” you had was weight that was working to keep the club face as steady/square as possible. 

 

To me, the Axis1 tech is like an upgrade to the LAB tech. The LAB will be more prone to twisting due to an imperfect human putting stroke. The Axis1 will almost fight your imperfect stroke and keep the putter on the correct line. It seems the Axis1 may have better distance control and forgiveness on off center putts as well. 

 

Is there some part of this that I’m missing? I have absolutely nothing against LAB and don’t have a dog in the fight. 

 

I think both putters can be a lot to look down at but personally prefer how the fang style Axis1 looks as well.

 

I just ordered the Axis1 TM Elite. I know the Rose model gets some hate for the feel/sound and cheap look and feel of the 3D printed rear fangs but this TM Elite seems to fix those issues and actually looks like a quality putter. Hoping it feels like one too. But honestly if I’m sinking more putts I don’t care. 

[MattM97]

If that's the conclusion you've come to I hope you roll it well.

 

My biggest gripe with the Axis1 putters is that you only get what they have spec wise which is a set 2.5°/69° setup where LAB builds a putter to each person. So the Axis putters you have to be close to those specs to see the most benefit I think. 

[Misc1600]

The LAB had less twisting 

 

 

[hardpan70]

I have 3 old Odyssey Back stryke putters that are toe balanced, agree with your conclusion.  My LAB putter goes where I go, the toe balanced wants to do it's thing :) 

[snowmangolf]

1 hour ago, Misc1600 said:

The LAB had less twisting 

 

 

 

I completely understand that and have seen this video before, but to my point in the original post- I think the weighting of the Axis1 should be more helpful in maintaining a more accurate stroke than a putter that will twist any which way your hands/wrists move it. The post above words it in a good way 

[bluedot]

11 hours ago, snowmangolf said:

 

I completely understand that and have seen this video before, but to my point in the original post- I think the weighting of the Axis1 should be more helpful in maintaining a more accurate stroke than a putter that will twist any which way your hands/wrists move it. The post above words it in a good way 

I’m not sure how a putter could do what you are saying the Axis1 does for EVERY golfer; it would seem to me that the weighting would only “help” a particular stroke.  I don’t see how it could help ALL strokes.

 

I don’t want to come across as a shill for LAB, but I do think it’s unique technology to build a putter to the specs of an individual and THEN weight it to make it zero torque; if any other company is doing this, I’m not aware of it.  And while I go back and forth from a LAB DF and a Bobby Grace F22, I must say that there is a remarkable sense of ease with the DF when you realize that you don’t have to work AT ALL square the face and that you can just release it and it WILL go down the line. 

[snowmangolf]

48 minutes ago, bluedot said:

I’m not sure how a putter could do what you are saying the Axis1 does for EVERY golfer; it would seem to me that the weighting would only “help” a particular stroke.  I don’t see how it could help ALL strokes.

 

I don’t want to come across as a shill for LAB, but I do think it’s unique technology to build a putter to the specs of an individual and THEN weight it to make it zero torque; if any other company is doing this, I’m not aware of it.  And while I go back and forth from a LAB DF and a Bobby Grace F22, I must say that there is a remarkable sense of ease with the DF when you realize that you don’t have to work AT ALL square the face and that you can just release it and it WILL go down the line. 

I think the most simple way to put it is that the Axis1 tech/weighting is designed to prevent the face from twisting due to an imperfect stroke where as the LAB putter will twist any which way due to an imperfect stroke

[bluedot]

3 minutes ago, snowmangolf said:

I think the most simple way to put it is that the Axis1 tech/weighting is designed to prevent the face from twisting due to an imperfect stroke where as the LAB putter will twist any which way due to an imperfect stroke

Ok, but wouldn’t the type and degree of “imperfection” in a putting stroke vary from player to player?  I don’t see how one particular weighting option could correct for ALL imperfections. That would be magic.

 

And that’s NOT to say that a LAB putter gets rid of imperfections in any putting stroke, or even that a LAB putter effectively compensates for imperfections in a putting stroke.  LAB doesn’t claim that, and I think we’d all justifiably call BS if they did.  I’m 100% capable of making a poor putting stroke, even with a zero torque putter in my hand.
 

I think it’s probably an open question for any golfer as to whether or not a certain amount of torque in the putter MIGHT correct thei particular stroke.  But that’s a far cry from saying that there is a putter that corrects ALL imperfect strokes.  The whole point of The Revealer videos is simply that the golfer doesn’t have to “fight” the torque of the putter to make a stroke with a zero torque putter; the rest is up to me, right?  You may or may not buy that claim, but I think that’s all LAB is claiming.

 

And fwiw, the LAB video about the Axis1 strikes me as remarkably objective when he concludes it by saying the Axis1 is probably better than whatever you’re currently using.  

[MattM97]

23 minutes ago, snowmangolf said:

I think the most simple way to put it is that the Axis1 tech/weighting is designed to prevent the face from twisting due to an imperfect stroke where as the LAB putter will twist any which way due to an imperfect stroke

 

Not sure why you think an Axis1 won't twist with an imperfect stroke, it's a 350g some odd putter, probably 550g total club, anyone can manipulate that in a negative or positive way. If the Axis was truly superior above all putters it would be more widely used than just Justin Rose or be deemed illegal which neither are happening.

 

I'm not saying the Axis is bad tech, I like the idea, I like the tech, I'd have tried one if they were made in LH but you seem like you're trying to justify your putter purchase hoping it's the best thing ever. I hope it is for you but usually when we expect miracles in a club it's a let down.

[jomatty]

I’ve got an Axis1 hm your and a LAB link.1.  I also gamed a Mezz for about a year.  I go back and forth between them as I can’t establish a clear “gamer” and “back up” for when the gamer acts up.  I suppose if I had to give one the nod right now it would be the Axis1.

They both do an amazing job of staying square.  The Axis1 really does feel like it’s on a track though.  For my eyes the zero offset of the LAB is better.  
they both are solid flat sticks.

17 hours ago, MattM97 said:

If that's the conclusion you've come to I hope you roll it well.

 

My biggest gripe with the Axis1 putters is that you only get what they have spec wise which is a set 2.5°/69° setup where LAB builds a putter to each person. So the Axis putters you have to be close to those specs to see the most benefit I think. 

that’s true but for those that like to tweak their gear Axis1 gets the nod. You can add head weight, change grips, adjust length and that sort of thing which is nice.

[golferdude54]

22 hours ago, MattM97 said:

My biggest gripe with the Axis1 putters is that you only get what they have spec wise which is a set 2.5°/69° setup where LAB builds a putter to each person. So the Axis putters you have to be close to those specs to see the most benefit I think. 

You’re stuck with the stock loft on LAB putters as well, the only thing you can adjust is the lie angle. Even custom LAB putters don’t have a loft option, probably only tour players have access to getting the ideal loft for their strokes.

[MattM97]

6 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

You’re stuck with the stock loft on LAB putters as well, the only thing you can adjust is the lie angle. Even custom LAB putters don’t have a loft option, probably only tour players have access to getting the ideal loft for their strokes.

 

Loft you can kinda adjust with ball placement in your stance, lie manipulation changes aim which is a bigger issue I'd say for putting and way less consistent to get correct all the time. 

 

They both have flaws to them but if I can't aim a putter I'm not gonna use it. 

[snowmangolf]

Just to clear a few things up from prior comments- I’m definitely not saying either brand will completely fix anyone’s imperfect putting stroke. All I’m saying is that a putter that has the weight designed in a way that would actually fight imperfections like opening or closing the face too much should have an advantage over a putter that will twist any which way you move it in your stroke. 

 

Axis1 is like using bumpers on a bowling alley and LAB is like not using bumpers because you think you’re always going to roll the ball right up the center of the lane every time

[bunta]

5 hours ago, snowmangolf said:

Just to clear a few things up from prior comments- I’m definitely not saying either brand will completely fix anyone’s imperfect putting stroke. All I’m saying is that a putter that has the weight designed in a way that would actually fight imperfections like opening or closing the face too much should have an advantage over a putter that will twist any which way you move it in your stroke. 

 

Axis1 is like using bumpers on a bowling alley and LAB is like not using bumpers because you think you’re always going to roll the ball right up the center of the lane every time

 

 

Youre not alone being unconvinced with LAB. I played with it at PGASS everytime i stop by the store. And I dont get it. I dont get how the tech helps me. I mean i get what theyre trying to do, i just dont understand how its going to help me.

 

Im glad i went overlenght instead (39inch). I feel so much more comfortable just from standing taller. Not only do i find my lines so much better now im also so much more confident due to my stroke from an overlenght putter. I feel like all i have to do now is release and itll take my intended line.

Edited January 21 by bunta

[bluedot]

On 1/20/2024 at 8:23 PM, snowmangolf said:

Just to clear a few things up from prior comments- I’m definitely not saying either brand will completely fix anyone’s imperfect putting stroke. All I’m saying is that a putter that has the weight designed in a way that would actually fight imperfections like opening or closing the face too much should have an advantage over a putter that will twist any which way you move it in your stroke. 

 

Axis1 is like using bumpers on a bowling alley and LAB is like not using bumpers because you think you’re always going to roll the ball right up the center of the lane every time

I could buy this IF everyone had the same imperfections in their putting strokes.  But I don’t think I see how a particular weighting setup could “fight” ALL imperfections the same way.  
 

Marketing claims, including those of LAB, are what they are, and every golfer has to sort thru the marketing to find the equipment that helps them the most.  But as best I can tell from the Axis website, you’re making claims for their putters that even they don’t make.  

[snowmangolf]

31 minutes ago, bluedot said:

I could buy this IF everyone had the same imperfections in their putting strokes.  But I don’t think I see how a particular weighting setup could “fight” ALL imperfections the same way.  
 

Marketing claims, including those of LAB, are what they are, and every golfer has to sort thru the marketing to find the equipment that helps them the most.  But as best I can tell from the Axis website, you’re making claims for their putters that even they don’t make.  

There’s a video on Youtube of the owner/designer of Axis1 explaining that the point of their putter is to prevent twist and keep it as square as possible throughout the stroke. 

 

While I understand LAB is offering a very similar tech, the difference with LAB is there is no weight anywhere to help the putter stay on line. Axis1 has weight positioned in a way that would help fight twist in the stroke. 

Edited January 22 by snowmangolf

[Simpsonia]

2 hours ago, snowmangolf said:

There’s a video on Youtube of the owner/designer of Axis1 explaining that the point of their putter is to prevent twist and keep it as square as possible throughout the stroke. 

 

While I understand LAB is offering a very similar tech, the difference with LAB is there is no weight anywhere to help the putter stay on line. Axis1 has weight positioned in a way that would help fight twist in the stroke. 

 

 

Even assuming your assertions of how the Axis 1 works are true (which I'm not sold on), wouldn't it work the other way as well? If you do happen to introduce some amount of twist in your backstroke, wouldn't it fight you getting back to true square to target then, because after twisting the COM has a new 'square'? 

[labgolf]

Interesting take though I want to make sure you know that the LAB DOES have corrective torque and is using torque to fight excess rotation of the face in realtion to the arc. The axis, if left to its own devices will twist in excess of the arc. It'll help folks who tend to leave the facec open at first but the feedback we hear is that the axis can eventually lead to a pull, the more passive you become. But I totally get how you arrived at the conclusion that you did. At least the face is rotating in the right direction and I agree these are better options than conventional putters. Have you tried both?

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, labgolf said:

Interesting take though I want to make sure you know that the LAB DOES have corrective torque and is using torque to fight excess rotation of the face in realtion to the arc. The axis, if left to its own devices will twist in excess of the arc. It'll help folks who tend to leave the facec open at first but the feedback we hear is that the axis can eventually lead to a pull, the more passive you become. But I totally get how you arrived at the conclusion that you did. At least the face is rotating in the right direction and I agree these are better options than conventional putters. Have you tried both?

And as I pointed out earlier, if you watch the LAB Revealer video on the Axis1, the concluding statement is something like “It’s probably better than whatever you’re currently using.”  That strikes me as a remarkably even-handed approach to a competitor’s product. 

rem

[5hort5tuff]

The main issue with many for the Axis 1 is the looks. They also dont make LH putters. 

 

LAB has addressed both of those issues over the years and although their product hasn't worked for me, I can appreciate their product, in house designs, and pretty extensive customization for an newer "oem" type brand. 

[tele_pathic]

Neither will choose the correct line or pace of the putt, so.....But into whatever tech fits your eye, by all means, but there is no magic putter out there for everyone. I've had all kinds of Odyssey putters with all kinds of inserts, and milled face ODY as well, to LAB putters to Mizuno, and they were all great: felt great, looked great, all about the same price. Ultimately, my gamer is a Mizuno MCraft because it's magnetic and will pick up my Ghost towel. 

[ephmen]

I am a LAB fanboy but not here to say LAB is better. I will say, I am impressed at how much PGA tour uptake LAB has had in the absence of paying players. Clearly the pros think it works as well. 

[manVSgolf]

45 minutes ago, ephmen said:

I am a LAB fanboy but not here to say LAB is better. I will say, I am impressed at how much PGA tour uptake LAB has had in the absence of paying players. Clearly the pros think it works as well. 

Agreed.  I believe in what the revealer shows.  Physics is physics regardless how things look.  
 

I used to have a few AXIS1s (Umbra, Rose) - I also liked them more than anything else aside from LABs.  But I threw them in my revealer and I couldn’t un-see the twisting.  
 

It feels like there was this big obvious answer just out-of-sight to everyone, until Bill Presse had enough and changed the world.  Everyone answered a tangential question in their own way, but all get revealed.

[dmeeksDC]

I had a LAB Mezz and an Axis1 Rose. Wanted to try both. I kept the Axis1 because I was better on long putts with it, had fewer putts per round. The Mezz is darn good too, i drilled short putts with it. But I was not as comfortable with it. I am actually left handed but I play golf right handed. Axis1 suited my natural setup better. No criticism of the Mezz, it’s a premium putter. 
 

One thing that seems to be a misconception about Axis1 is that the design requires every player to be close to its standard specs. Not true. I spoke with them and they told me it can be bent to your loft and lie — and you can use any grip you want — and the balance is not affected. i changed the grip on mine and it was even better. 
 

Best way I can describe it is the Axis1 feels like it is on rails through the stroke. Very easy to keep on line. The major difference I found vs the Mezz is for me the Rose is simpler to use. Why more do not use it I do not know but my guess is players can’t get past the look of the hosel. It also can feel a little “hot” at first but I found that was me hitting the middle of the putter face more often. And stats do not lie: Rose went from a very good putter to elite with the Axis1. 
 

Not knocking either one as I like these kinds of putters in general. I do think the Revealer means little as human hands will apply torque no matter what. If you want torque-free, don’t touch the putter.  I would not look at Tour use as meaningful either way. My experience with the Axis1 is similar to @snowmangolf I have posted some great putting rounds with it. Would I be interested in another LAB golf putter? Sure would. I am always following what they are doing. It’s a fine company. 
 

There is something to balance and weighting and how it can help smooth out putting and calm that “wobble” if you have one. There is another one out there, the Honu putters, and I have one of those too. (Hey, like @jomatty I like experimenting with putters.) It is damn good. Made of bamboo! (Very sustainable and the feel is very sweet.) Invented by a retired Sun Microsystems engineer living in Hawaii. I put a kohtani grip on it and am gripping it like kohtani recommends. Very solid. That one, if you hold it up and spin it in your hands, wherever you stop that is how it stays. Completely mass balanced. It has no mind of its own. 
 

Always lots of debate about which is best but they’re all good, it is about comfort and repeatability. Which one is the one you like best? That matters a lot. The only stats that matter are yours!

 

Just about everyone has seen the Mezz and the Axis1 Rose. Here is the Honu1 in black finish. They use a brass weight on the back. Made in Hawaii.