Best forgiving wedge?

[Never Out]

My foot wedge never let me down.

[hammergolf]

On 4/6/2024 at 9:27 AM, Red4282 said:

Respectfully, disagree on the forgiveness differences being of any significant value with wedges when it comes to off center (cog) strikes. The lack of twisting or gear effect that a cavity back generally gives diminishes rapidly above 40* of delivered loft. Cant comment for sure on that test by the youtuber but there is likely some explanation for it, just from the screenshots there are some factors to consider, (1), less loft static and delivered in the bladed wedge, (2) a bigger face to path variance in the bladed wedge, which will effect all the numbers you mentioned. 
 

I just know like 99.9% of the best players in the world play bladed wedges, and they have alot of money on the line. Yea they rarely mishit a wedge, but even if its 1 time out of a 100 and the differences are as large as you suggest, you would see alot more in pros bags. 
 

There certainly is a valid argument for cg placement and bounce in terms of maximizing a players performance, but the idea a cavity back design is a huge performance gain in anything higher than a pitching wedge is a myth, IMO. 

There are several studies that show the std deviations are tighter in wedges that can have the cg manipulated. There’s even tour players that switched to a “matching” set gap wedges because of this. Definitely not a myth, too much data to back it up.

[ShortGolfer]

Learning to read grass/ground conditions should help the confidence issue.

If you have a bad lie but don't have enough skill to know that this may lead to unreasonable expectations as to what you can do with your wedges.

 

If you know you can't get a clean shot you may reasonably expect to get a flier or ball that travels a club more than normal.

[Red4282]

2 hours ago, hammergolf said:

There are several studies that show the std deviations are tighter in wedges that can have the cg manipulated. There’s even tour players that switched to a “matching” set gap wedges because of this. Definitely not a myth, too much data to back it up.

If your the argument is standard deviations are smaller because you moved cg closer to strike point, (or moving strike point closer to cg),  I would agree. But thats not saying a Cavity back wedge is more forgiving on mishits (at least on a tangible level), which was the point I and the other poster said.

[tsecor]

whats a "forgiving" wedge? 

[hammergolf]

2 hours ago, Red4282 said:

If your the argument is standard deviations are smaller because you moved cg closer to strike point, (or moving strike point closer to cg),  I would agree. But thats not saying a Cavity back wedge is more forgiving on mishits (at least on a tangible level), which was the point I and the other poster said.

Having the ability to move cg is exactly my point. Giving engineers the ability to move the cg away from the heel is much easier in a cavity back design. Not to mention it improves mishit performance especially on toe strikes. This has been shown in several different tests. A wedge having 6 - 10 feet less dispersion area is a very tangible improvement in my opinion. The statistics show how much greater the make percentage is from a 6ft putt vs a 16ft putt. 
 

https://www.pgatour.com/article/news/equipment-report/2022/03/16/sam-burns-explains-the-unique-gear-change-he-made-to-improve-his-wedge-play

 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, tsecor said:

whats a "forgiving" wedge? 

Yep, mine never accept my apologies! 

[musicman1951]

Cleveland CBX for me.

[Red4282]

On 4/8/2024 at 1:57 PM, hammergolf said:

Having the ability to move cg is exactly my point. Giving engineers the ability to move the cg away from the heel is much easier in a cavity back design. Not to mention it improves mishit performance especially on toe strikes. This has been shown in several different tests. A wedge having 6 - 10 feet less dispersion area is a very tangible improvement in my opinion. The statistics show how much greater the make percentage is from a 6ft putt vs a 16ft putt. 
 

https://www.pgatour.com/article/news/equipment-report/2022/03/16/sam-burns-explains-the-unique-gear-change-he-made-to-improve-his-wedge-play

 

So one person swapped a gap wedge to a set gap wedge? And thats evidence? Why not the sand and lob? Which by the way the tcb as a “cavity back” is a little funny because there is very, very, little cavity, especially in the short irons. If you want to move cog to the toe, there are other ways to do it as well,  shorter hosels, tungsten plugs. It still doesnt change the fact that high moi wedges are no more forgiving than low moi. Because loft is the dominant force on the ball. 

[hammergolf]

57 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

So one person swapped a gap wedge to a set gap wedge? And thats evidence? Why not the sand and lob? Which by the way the tcb as a “cavity back” is a little funny because there is very, very, little cavity, especially in the short irons. If you want to move cog to the toe, there are other ways to do it as well,  shorter hosels, tungsten plugs. It still doesnt change the fact that high moi wedges are no more forgiving than low moi. Because loft is the dominant force on the ball. 

Interesting…. Strange that a s23 56* wedge has tighter deviation vs a t24 56* wedge if loft controls deviation.

[Red4282]

25 minutes ago, hammergolf said:

Interesting…. Strange that a s23 56* wedge has tighter deviation vs a t24 56* wedge if loft controls deviation.

You mean one little youtubers flawed “test”?  They weren’t even the same loft… which actually, one could argue the extra loft being responsible for the smaller deviations. 
 

Here is an excellent read by someone who has great knowledge and experience on the subject:

 

“I will share that the difference between that miss with those two different styles of irons is increasingly larger as the loft decreases. In other words, the difference you’ll experience with a quarter-inch miss with a 40-degree 9-iron is less than you will see with a 30-degree 6- or 7-iron. But there is another anomaly of your actual misses of which you should be aware.

For most golfers I’ve measured, misses with longer irons tend to range more from heel to toe, and with shorter irons those misses tend to range from low to high in the face. Because of the more consistent blade thickness from top to bottom, true blade-style short irons quite often deliver more consistent distance and ball flight than their perimeter-weighted counterparts, both with real golfers and on robotic testing.”

 

Full article here:

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/648020/the-wedge-guy-in-defense-of-blade-irons/

[hammergolf]

28 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

You mean one little youtubers flawed “test”?  They weren’t even the same loft… which actually, one could argue the extra loft being responsible for the smaller deviations. 
 

Here is an excellent read by someone who has great knowledge and experience on the subject:

 

“I will share that the difference between that miss with those two different styles of irons is increasingly larger as the loft decreases. In other words, the difference you’ll experience with a quarter-inch miss with a 40-degree 9-iron is less than you will see with a 30-degree 6- or 7-iron. But there is another anomaly of your actual misses of which you should be aware.

For most golfers I’ve measured, misses with longer irons tend to range more from heel to toe, and with shorter irons those misses tend to range from low to high in the face. Because of the more consistent blade thickness from top to bottom, true blade-style short irons quite often deliver more consistent distance and ball flight than their perimeter-weighted counterparts, both with real golfers and on robotic testing.”

 

Full article here:

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/648020/the-wedge-guy-in-defense-of-blade-irons/

And he literally contradicts himself on his wedge company’s website. He states that moving mass higher and toe side of a wedge improves deviation by as much as 20 - 30ft in mishits. In fact, he even makes the statement, and I quote:

 

What really determines how a wedge will work is simple -- how much mass is directly behind and above the ball at the point of contact.

That's why traditional 'tour design' wedges are so awful if you don't hit every shot perfect, between the 2nd and 5th grooves. 

With up to 42% more mass where it matters, Edison Wedges make the smash factor as consistent as possible across the entire face, so those not-so-good shots turn out more like your best.

Making your slight mis-hits end up 20 to 30 feet closer to the flag is money . . . even if you're not playing for any.

I think any golfer would call that “more forgiving”. I continue to give you data that identifies this but you dismiss this as one Tour player, or a flawed YouTuber. You’ve already agreed that moving cg can improve performance. What’s the easiest way to move CG and put more weight above the CG? Easy, make a cavity back design…..
 

https://edisonwedges.com/pages/koehler-sole

Edited April 11 by hammergolf

[Red4282]

8 hours ago, hammergolf said:

And he literally contradicts himself on his wedge company’s website. He states that moving mass higher and toe side of a wedge improves deviation by as much as 20 - 30ft in mishits. In fact, he even makes the statement, and I quote:

 

What really determines how a wedge will work is simple -- how much mass is directly behind and above the ball at the point of contact.

That's why traditional 'tour design' wedges are so awful if you don't hit every shot perfect, between the 2nd and 5th grooves. 

With up to 42% more mass where it matters, Edison Wedges make the smash factor as consistent as possible across the entire face, so those not-so-good shots turn out more like your best.

Making your slight mis-hits end up 20 to 30 feet closer to the flag is money . . . even if you're not playing for any.

I think any golfer would call that “more forgiving”. I continue to give you data that identifies this but you dismiss this as one Tour player, or a flawed YouTuber. You’ve already agreed that moving cg can improve performance. What’s the easiest way to move CG and put more weight above the CG? Easy, make a cavity back design…..
 

https://edisonwedges.com/pages/koehler-sole

Fair enough, I dont like using anyones test or testimonies when they are involved in any selling or marketing of a product. I would concede there is a small amount of “help”, but my point is rather the  help has diminished down to a insignificant level and falls within the human error deviations. In other words 2-3 yards may sound like alot, but the fact is not even the best on the planet, can control their speeds and contact consistently enough to make those deviations matter, much less an amateur. 

[Peninsulagolfer]

Cleveland make the most forgiving wedges period. CBX wedges are élite for forgiveness. Smart sole are cheating, in a good way. 

[Righty to Lefty]

On 4/11/2024 at 7:57 AM, Peninsulagolfer said:

Cleveland make the most forgiving wedges period. CBX wedges are élite for forgiveness. Smart sole are cheating, in a good way. 

Agreed, anything in the Smart Sole family are amazing in my opinion. I love me a big sole wedge with a ton of bounce.  I play the C3i and Smart Sole wedges because as you open the clubface the leading edge rises off the ground which is actually a good thing because it encourages a strike lower on the club face, which is a good thing because shots will spin more.  The CBX wedges are really good also and though I have never hit one, I bet the Callaway CB wedges play very similar to the CBX wedges.  

Edited April 13 by Righty to Lefty

[flushem]

On 4/11/2024 at 6:25 AM, Righty to Lefty said:

Agreed, anything in the Smart Sole family are amazing in my opinion. I love me a big sole wedge with a ton of bounce.  I play the C3i and Smart Sole wedges because as you open the clubface the leading edge rises off the ground which is actually a good thing because it encourages a strike lower on the club face, which is a good thing because shots will spin more.  The CBX wedges are really good also and though I have never hit one, I bet the Callaway CB wedges play very similar to the CBX wedges.  

 

Now that I am used to new smart wedge from XE1, the grooves are amazing. You could put decent spin from fairly thick rough.  I almost feel ball attached to grooves for little longer than other clubs.  

[nsxguy]

On 4/11/2024 at 8:57 AM, Peninsulagolfer said:

Cleveland make the most forgiving wedges period. CBX wedges are élite for forgiveness. Smart sole are cheating, in a good way. 

 

Errrr,,,,,,,,, ummmmmmm,,,,,,,,,, wellllllllll,,,,,,

 

[Peninsulagolfer]

On 4/22/2024 at 10:45 AM, nsxguy said:

 

Errrr,,,,,,,,, ummmmmmm,,,,,,,,,, wellllllllll,,,,,,

 

I stand by that comment, but that doesn't mean they are the best suited to my game.  I prefer to play wedges that are more versatile.  The Pings work for me, but they are not as forgiving as the Cleveland wedges.

[jjzee]

Cleveland CBX. Forgiving and good bag appeal. 

[Konklifer]

Ping S159 54-W