Augusta - future course changes?

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, cardoustie said:

LOL on the stuff behind 16 tee, those ANGC folks have magic cash wands

All I could see were a couple of lovely ladies in smart dresses. 

[AZBRONCFAN]

Dress code?

[Birdman62]

Because of the right to left slope of the 10th fairway, what I would do is laser-scan the MacKenzie bunker, then move it back 40 yards and up the right side a bit.  If you get it into the groove on the left there you still have a shot, but will now punish anyone who pushes their drive.

 

I mean, when is the last time you saw someone play out of the thing?

[Ferguson]

Re: 17

Bring back the Eisenhower pine and the original name, Pickled Pear.

 

Re: 14

Move Sunday's pin slightly more left.

 

Re: 15

Change nothing. 

 

 

 

[Nard_S]

The course setup this year was as good as it's ever been. Green speeds up, tough holes, tough. The  wind, crazy. Think #2 is fine because 4,5,6 are brutal. #5 is my favorite par 4. #13 & #15 are what they are supposed to be, two great shots for eagle, no layup eagles. Course was easiest on Sunday and it was all over with nine to play. So much for the back nine derby, but one guy went -7 down the stretch. So it was doable. 

[mosesgolf]

With the impending ball roll back 13 and 15 is going to be more interesting. 
12th hole left pin position.  One should meet a watery grave for being short.  That embankment needs more slope.  

[Socrates]

3 hours ago, Ferguson said:

Re: 17

Bring back the Eisenhower pine and the original name, Pickled Pear.

 

 

It would be irrelevant unless you also brought back the guys from the 70's who only hit it 250. 

 

I think the locals viewed it as a "clown's nose" and were glad it had to be removed.

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, mosesgolf said:

With the impending ball roll back 13 and 15 is going to be more interesting. 

 

11 should be more interesting as well due to the rollback.  I would like to see the mounds right of the green reworked so they are usable to direct a long approach onto the green.

[ChrisL52188]

On 4/2/2024 at 12:42 PM, StoutKing said:

Really need rolled back equipment to make meaningful changes IMO.  If I were the AN dictator I would dump Fazio ASAP and hire Hanse.  Under his tutelage so many great courses have been returned to their former glory.  AN keeps going backwards.  JMO

Tom Doak would be better.

 

I would just change the pin placements mostly. The course is as excellent as it is.

Edited April 16 by ChrisL52188

[FriedEgg]

my hot take - grow the rough and make it the US Open it wants to be

[StoutKing]

1 hour ago, ChrisL52188 said:

Tom Doak would be better.

 

I would just change the pin placements mostly. The course is as excellent as it is.

Doak is awesome but he seems to do more true restorations.  I love that but AN wants to continue hosting the tournament every year.  Hanse has done a nice job with sympathetic restorations at major venues.

[ChrisL52188]

2 minutes ago, FriedEgg said:

my hot take - grow the rough and make it the US Open it wants to be

That'll be awesome. Augusta with rough would be very, very hard. It would be impossible to stop the ball.

 

Edited April 16 by ChrisL52188

[PedronNiall]

3 hours ago, smashdn said:

 

11 should be more interesting as well due to the rollback.  I would like to see the mounds right of the green reworked so they are usable to direct a long approach onto the green.

 

 

How is a rollback going to make it more interesting? It plays to par and will continue to play to par because of the design. A shorter ball isn't going to bring in birdie chances and it isn't going to change that the test of that hole is to not make a big number rather than trying to gain ground. 

 

The mounds would maybe be an interesting change if the point is to at least give a look at birdie, but then it's still luck as to how close you get. If it's going to be a scoring hole then change it to reward a good shot with a reasonable look at birdie as is the case with other scoring holes. Otherwise leave it as is and challenge players to make par with a good approach & chip. A rollback has no effect on the hole either way as it will still play proportionately long. 

[smashdn]

32 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

How is a rollback going to make it more interesting? It plays to par and will continue to play to par because of the design. A shorter ball isn't going to bring in birdie chances and it isn't going to change that the test of that hole is to not make a big number rather than trying to gain ground. 

 

Nothing to do with this^

 

32 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

The mounds would maybe be an interesting change if the point is to at least give a look at birdie, but then it's still luck as to how close you get. If it's going to be a scoring hole then change it to reward a good shot with a reasonable look at birdie as is the case with other scoring holes. Otherwise leave it as is and challenge players to make par with a good approach & chip. A rollback has no effect on the hole either way as it will still play proportionately long. 

 

And everything to do with adding interest.  

 

Truthfully, I didn't even make the suggestion with score in mind.  There isn't going to be much enticement that could lure you into making a bad decision (too aggressive, bad execution of a risky line, etc.) without some compulsion to play that way.  I had rather see a wily player use the slopes right to funnel the ball to the green.  It would be a less risky play on the surface but it would be with the caveat that you are opening yourself more up to the fickle hand of chance if you don't land your ball in the right spot to get it moving to the green.  get on the wrong side of the hillock and you are funneled away.  Hit the far side of it/them and the ball goes shooting past.

 

A rollback is going to put a wood in some players' hands.  I would still keep it as a par four to keep that compulsion of needing to be on the green in two in their heads.

[alittleoverpar]

I don't think you want to make it too tough.  One of the exciting things about the Masters is that someone can come from behind on the final 9 holes and win the thing!.  The US Open is traditionally the difficult major.  I like the excitement of two possible eagles coming down the stretch to win.

 

[cardoustie]

4 hours ago, alittleoverpar said:

I don't think you want to make it too tough.  One of the exciting things about the Masters is that someone can come from behind on the final 9 holes and win the thing!.  The US Open is traditionally the difficult major.  I like the excitement of two possible eagles coming down the stretch to win.

 

It’s been too hard recently in my opinion 

[cardoustie]

On 4/16/2024 at 1:12 PM, FriedEgg said:

my hot take - grow the rough and make it the US Open it wants to be

Hate this idea … no rough as it used to be is a better idea … ymmv 

[nauticaltownship]

As many people have said, getting rid of the rough is a good first step. Augusta was designed so that the slopes are the defense of the course and used to punish bad shots. Right now, the rough prevents bad shots from going to worse places. I've seen a lot of balls getting caught up in the rough on holes 9 and 14 that should have ended up in the trees and pine straw. 

 

Surprised I haven't seen more talk about restoring the bunkers on the course to a more authentic Mackenzie look. This wouldn't affect how the course plays much, but I think the course suffers from the overly clean and boring look of the current bunkers. The same guy that designed ANGC designed Pasatiempo and Cypress Point. Of course, this would be extremely hard to successfully do. There's a reason Mackenzie is so famous for his artistry with bunkers. It would be hard to successfully recreate Cypress Point based on only photos from the 1930s. 

 

Lots of talk about 16 here. People seem to love the hole and it's been the setting for a lot of great masters moments, so maybe they should just leave it. But I personally don't like the hole in general. It sticks out as being such a completely different style than the rest of the course. Just doesn't have the same complexity as the other holes.

 

7 and 17 have great greens, so I don't think we need to blow the holes up and start over, but they definitely need some widening. Also don't love the bunkers on hole 18 that have made the strategy too one dimensional. 

 

As as side note - I love hole 10 and think it's one of the few holes who's design has been improved thorough the many changes through the years. 

 

 

[cardoustie]

The chap that re-did Pasatiempo should be considered to re-do the bunkers …. 
 

uncle Cardy only requires a tiny consulting fee 

[Oostiesalbacore]

On 4/4/2024 at 5:13 AM, EagleAteBirdie said:

ANGC would be better off asking ChatGPT what Bobby Jones would do.

“Bobby Jones, being one of the greatest golfers in history and a co-founder of Augusta National Golf Club, would likely focus on maintaining the course's integrity while adjusting to modern advancements in golf equipment. He might emphasize strategic design changes to challenge players' skills, ensuring that the course remains a fair test for professionals while still being enjoyable for members and guests. Additionally, he might prioritize environmental sustainability and preservation of the club's traditions.”

chatgpt response to the question “how would Bobby Jones improve play at Augusta National?”

[KrazyTrain18]

I think the course is as close to perfection as you can get, the only change I would like to see is to get rid of the rough completely.  I think it would be interesting if the fairway cut just ran off into bunkers or pine straw, I think it would provide some interesting run offs and different angles.  

[grm24]

1 hour ago, KrazyTrain18 said:

I think it would be interesting if the fairway cut just ran off into bunkers or pine straw, I think it would provide some interesting run offs and different angles.  

That's they way it used to be before they added the dreaded "first cut" in 1999.

Edited Monday at 02:57 AM by grm24

[mat562]

On 4/15/2024 at 6:51 PM, Birdman62 said:

Because of the right to left slope of the 10th fairway, what I would do is laser-scan the MacKenzie bunker...

 

I mean, when is the last time you saw someone play out of the thing?

 

I remember discussing this with some friends one year. I can't recall ever seeing anyone play a shot from it, and I've been watching the Masters since 1986. The coverage from back then amounted to a highlights package on Saturday, then the back nine on each day of the weekend, so the sample size isn't great, I admit.

 

As an aside, I think I recall it being mentioned that Tom Weiskopf once drove into it one year with a bit of a healthy following breeze. Not even the big boys are doing that now with the modern kit, albeit the real long knockers are pitching it way down on the flat part of the fairway, and not getting a scalded cat with a tin can tied to its tail  bounce like Weiskopf's drive presumably did.

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 11:48 AM by mat562

[me05501]

I was glad to see the pond on 11 come into play a bit often more this year. There were a few years there where it seemed like it wasn't a factor at all. 

 

For Amen Corner to be Amen Corner the 11th needs to have some teeth. 

[falken19150]

Want to make the Masters more difficult.......take away the "past champions" exemption.

[smashdn]

On 4/27/2024 at 11:45 AM, Oostiesalbacore said:

“Bobby Jones, being one of the greatest golfers in history and a co-founder of Augusta National Golf Club, would likely focus on maintaining the course's integrity while adjusting to modern advancements in golf equipment. He might emphasize strategic design changes to challenge players' skills, ensuring that the course remains a fair test for professionals while still being enjoyable for members and guests. Additionally, he might prioritize environmental sustainability and preservation of the club's traditions.”

chatgpt response to the question “how would Bobby Jones improve play at Augusta National?”

 

That reads like some of the "problem solving" responses for things here at work.  "We should improve our performance whilst keeping aligned with company values and priorities."  You don't say?

[smashdn]

5 hours ago, mat562 said:

As an aside, I think I recall it being mentioned that Tom Weiskopf once drove into it one year with a bit of a healthy following breeze. Not even the big boys are doing that now with the modern kit, albeit the real long knockers are pitching it way down on the flat part of the fairway, and not getting a scalded cat with a tin can tied to its tail  bounce like Weiskopf's drive presumably did.

 

Might be reason then to move the tee up.  Get it where that condition could exist and an unthoughtful drive could find that bunker.  The wise player shows restraint and targets the flatter area.

[Oostiesalbacore]

-Replace the white feldspar with olivine

-Allowing fans to attend 

-Renaming the holes after the player with the last HOI or albatross

-More funnel pins 

-Aerate the greens on Tuesday 

-Musical caddie swap before each round

-Everybody uses the same putter on the 18th, chosen by the reigning champ

-the reigning champion has to play the first round in his green jacket, no taking it off

-the winner has to cannonball into Rae’s creek before signing his card or gains a stroke 

-the player with the highest score from the previous year must play the first round wearing a cowboy hat and boots of the champions choice and will be paired with the reigning champion 

-Winner gets to take Dottie Pepper on a date, chaperoned of course 

[stinger_gc]

On 4/16/2024 at 8:49 AM, mosesgolf said:

With the impending ball roll back 13 and 15 is going to be more interesting. 
12th hole left pin position.  One should meet a watery grave for being short.  That embankment needs more slope.  

The roll back isn’t gonna be that drastic. I think equipment and the modern swing is a bigger factor in distance gains.