I see fitness brought up all the time.

[MonteScheinblum]

Don’t get me wrong, I’m suffering from lack of it right now, but it has nothing to do with my ability to make a good swing.

 

Making a good golf swing and avoiding common swing faults does not need even average fitness and flexibility.  You would need elite flexibility to swing like Sargent and Niemann, but not something akin to Rose or Auberg.
 

I teach old, inflexible and round golfers every day.  I am old, inflexible and round and I don’t EE, I shift and rotate properly, etc.  Rotating and shifting the pelvis properly, moving the wrists correctly, getting adequate depth of the hands and linking the arms in transition do not even need average fitness and flexibility.  As a matter of fact, you can a decent swing with even horrid fitness and flexibility.  

 

That being said, I find fitness and flexibility a positive pursuit.

 

The point is far too often lack of fitness and flexibility is the reason given for a swing issue and it’s not and I fight this false narrative every day on the lesson tee and social media.  I always lose on social media, because you can’t  beat a DK, However, I am undefeated on the lesson tee with all the people that said they weren’t fit and flexible enough to make a proper swing.

 

As an example, a guy last week asked me to help him make a swing that would manage his EE.  He was told he wasn’t flexible enough or strong enough in the core and he had no motivation to correct this and wanted a swing that would manage his EE.

 

I fixed the EE in 1 swing and he gained 5% club speed.

 

Let the dissent begin.  

Edited July 12 by MonteScheinblum

[SNIPERBBB]

Just another example of is golfers being complete head cases.

[MonteScheinblum]

1 minute ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Just another example of is golfers being complete head cases.

And random internet bozos calling fitness the panacea for all swing issues.

[ferrispgm]

I'd also add that people need to stop worrying about getting too big and inflexible when they just started working out.  People underestimate the amount of work and calories needed to get to a size where flexibility becomes a concern.

[Sp4zRX]

Scottie Scheffler has a different opinion

 

 

 

I think Scheff is out of his area of expertise on this one. I tend to side with Monte on this. It’s part of the issue when you have guys like that saying things like that when he probably has a skill set of near zero teaching amateurs. It’s seems like the equivalent of a 15 capper giving random advice on his newest “aha moment”

[Gsea]

14 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Just another example of is golfers being complete head cases.

you said the polite version "tools" can replace head cases

[golferdude54]

If you can walk, raise your hands above your head, turn to face someone 90 degrees left or right without moving your feet, and hold a glass of water, you can swing.

[BWillis]

1 hour ago, ferrispgm said:

I'd also add that people need to stop worrying about getting too big and inflexible when they just started working out.  People underestimate the amount of work and calories needed to get to a size where flexibility becomes a concern.

a natural lifter will never get to big or inflexible.

[SNIPERBBB]

1 hour ago, ferrispgm said:

I'd also add that people need to stop worrying about getting too big and inflexible when they just started working out.  People underestimate the amount of work and calories needed to get to a size where flexibility becomes a concern.

It's a lazy mindset giving themselves an excuse for why they can't get better or get through a round without wanting a nap at the turn.

[Trippels]

1 hour ago, ferrispgm said:

I'd also add that people need to stop worrying about getting too big and inflexible when they just started working out.  People underestimate the amount of work and calories needed to get to a size where flexibility becomes a concern.

ironically, we now have plenty of evidence that the type of training that grows muscle the best also improves mobillity, as you want to put tension on the muscles at very stretched positions.

 

And yeah, only way to get too big is by expensive trips to the grocery store or online "pharmacies"

[596]

I am not going to argue this thread. I agree to a point. But there are many benefits to being in shape and fit when playing golf.  It's a sport.  Most people I know can't walk 9 holes, yet that is a part of the game. It's not all about riding a cart and making 72 swings in between. Walking the course is a different animal. 

 

Will being in shape and fit get rid of flaws, no.  Can it help, yes.  Especially in body awareness.  For example.  Ironman Triathlete for 20 years before I added golf.  Excellent shape at 54 years old. Zero lessons. No videos, no books. 18 months later I was a 2 handicap with scores in the 60s.  Can't tell me being in shape and fit had nothing to do with that.  I was very aware what my body could and couldn't do and what it was actually doing.  Being in shape and fit will not guarantee low scores or a better swing, but it will help.

 

Again, not going to argue. Just another point of view. 

 

 

[johnrobison]

23 minutes ago, 596 said:

I am not going to argue this thread. I agree to a point. But there are many benefits to being in shape and fit when playing golf.  It's a sport.  Most people I know can't walk 9 holes, yet that is a part of the game. It's not all about riding a cart and making 72 swings in between. Walking the course is a different animal. 

 

Will being in shape and fit get rid of flaws, no.  Can it help, yes.  Especially in body awareness.  For example.  Ironman Triathlete for 20 years before I added golf.  Excellent shape at 54 years old. Zero lessons. No videos, no books. 18 months later I was a 2 handicap with scores in the 60s.  Can't tell me being in shape and fit had nothing to do with that.  I was very aware what my body could and couldn't do and what it was actually doing.  Being in shape and fit will not guarantee low scores or a better swing, but it will help.

 

Again, not going to argue. Just another point of view. 

 

 

To credit your success in golf with no lessons to being in excellent shape, though, presumes that there isn’t someone somewhere with the same success but not fit. We don’t know if shooting in the 60’s had anything to do with your fitness and there’s no way to know.

[Albatross Dreamer]

As someone that comes more from the sports performance world wouldn't dissent. Would say that if someone is lacking strength or mobility/flexibility getting that to adequate levels will likely make it easier to perform the swing with less stress on the body. I see the "gym" as where we're trying to Improve resiliency and/or improve a specific quality (i.e. strength, mobility, power, etc). With the SAID principle in mind we can enhance someone's swing with off the course training, but it'd be a poor choice to try to fix a fault barring a true limitation.

 

I'll politely disagree with the people saying you can never get too big or inflexible from training. The reality is that hypertrophy can alter things such as pennation angle and neuromuscular coordination in a way that's negative for sports performance. For inflexibility at some point there's going to be structural adaptations that'll make someone less flexible. In order to get stronger beyond a point the body wants to decrease degrees of freedom (movement outside of a specific plane) in order to maximize movement efficiency. We'll also see changes in the shape of the thorax and pelvis due to the compression in strength training in order to give someone better concentric orientation, which takes away from somebody's ability to expand aka mobility. We can debate at which point this would occur, and will likely differ depending on the person.

[Soloman1]

i'm 72-years old and still in shape.

round is a shape, right?

[SNIPERBBB]

23 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

i'm 72-years old and still in shape.

round is a shape, right?

Round is not a shape, Mr. McCord .

[Cwebb]

3 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

And random internet bozos calling fitness the panacea for all swing issues.

 

Do people really claim this?  That better fitness and flexibility is the answer for all swing issues?

 

I know of experienced instructors and players that have found it to be a part of the puzzle.....and a bigger issue for some than others

[Soloman1]

5 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Round is not a shape, Mr. McCord .

 

i don't understand, that's too esoteric for me. i only have an 85 iq...

[SNIPERBBB]

4 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

i don't understand, that's too esoteric for me. i only have an 85 iq...

Round is a description of a shape 

[MountainKing]

1 hour ago, 596 said:

I am not going to argue this thread. I agree to a point. But there are many benefits to being in shape and fit when playing golf.  It's a sport.  Most people I know can't walk 9 holes, yet that is a part of the game. It's not all about riding a cart and making 72 swings in between. Walking the course is a different animal. 

 

Will being in shape and fit get rid of flaws, no.  Can it help, yes.  Especially in body awareness.  For example.  Ironman Triathlete for 20 years before I added golf.  Excellent shape at 54 years old. Zero lessons. No videos, no books. 18 months later I was a 2 handicap with scores in the 60s.  Can't tell me being in shape and fit had nothing to do with that.  I was very aware what my body could and couldn't do and what it was actually doing.  Being in shape and fit will not guarantee low scores or a better swing, but it will help.

 

Again, not going to argue. Just another point of view. 

 

 

 

I feel like you didn't read anything Monte wrote.  His post is about the golf swing and being able to make a good golf swing, not anybodys ability to walk a course.   Seems like you just wanted an opportunity to tell us you do Ironmans and quickly became a two handicap    I guess I'll throw out that I watch Iron Man and have been a scratch for almost 30 years.

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, 596 said:

I am not going to argue this thread. I agree to a point. But there are many benefits to being in shape and fit when playing golf.  It's a sport.  Most people I know can't walk 9 holes, yet that is a part of the game. It's not all about riding a cart and making 72 swings in between. Walking the course is a different animal.

Nobody is saying that being fit and getting stronger and gaining better flexibility and mobiles isn’t beneficial. We all know that.

 

Its just not a requirement to make a good golf swing as some people with zero teaching background or other areas of expertise claim. 
 

1 hour ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

politely disagree with the people saying you can never get too big or inflexible from training. The reality is that hypertrophy can alter things such as pennation angle and neuromuscular coordination in a way that's negative for sports performance. For inflexibility at some point there's going to be structural adaptations that'll make someone less flexible. In order to get stronger beyond a point the body wants to decrease degrees of freedom (movement outside of a specific plane) in order to maximize movement efficiency. We'll also see changes in the shape of the thorax and pelvis due to the compression in strength training in order to give someone better concentric orientation, which takes away from somebody's ability to expand aka mobility. We can debate at which point this would occur, and will likely differ depending on the person.

Show examples

[GoGoErky]

10 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

 

I feel like you didn't read anything Monte wrote.  His post is about the golf swing and being able to make a good golf swing, not anybodys ability to walk a course.   Seems like you just wanted an opportunity to tell us you do Ironmans and quickly became a two handicap    I guess I'll throw out that I watch Iron Man and have been a scratch for almost 30 years.

Basically 

[SNIPERBBB]

2 hours ago, 596 said:

I am not going to argue this thread. I agree to a point. But there are many benefits to being in shape and fit when playing golf.  It's a sport.  Most people I know can't walk 9 holes, yet that is a part of the game. It's not all about riding a cart and making 72 swings in between. Walking the course is a different animal. 

 

Will being in shape and fit get rid of flaws, no.  Can it help, yes.  Especially in body awareness.  For example.  Ironman Triathlete for 20 years before I added golf.  Excellent shape at 54 years old. Zero lessons. No videos, no books. 18 months later I was a 2 handicap with scores in the 60s.  Can't tell me being in shape and fit had nothing to do with that.  I was very aware what my body could and couldn't do and what it was actually doing.  Being in shape and fit will not guarantee low scores or a better swing, but it will help.

 

Again, not going to argue. Just another point of view. 

 

 

That's all drive. You have to want to get good at golf. People generally that do triathlons are lazy bums watching TV all day from their parents basement.  If you apply the same drive from triathlons to pursuit of gold, you'll get fairly good.

 

That's why I say golf is all mental game. You can't think the ball into the hole, but you to be able to will or trick your body into doing what you need it to do get the ball into the hole no matter if you're the skinny 18yr old or broken down 70yr old.

[rooski]

2 hours ago, BWillis said:

a natural lifter will never get to big or inflexible.

 

Idk John Cena claims to be natty... 🤣

 

[BWillis]

5 minutes ago, rooski said:

 

Idk John Cena claims to be natty... 🤣

 

same vitamins hulk hogan was on 😂 

[rooski]

1 minute ago, BWillis said:

same vitamins hulk hogan was on 😂 

 

Nah John Cena, Hulk Hogan, and the Rock just work harder than the rest of us lol

Edited July 13 by rooski

[BWillis]

1 hour ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

As someone that comes more from the sports performance world wouldn't dissent. Would say that if someone is lacking strength or mobility/flexibility getting that to adequate levels will likely make it easier to perform the swing with less stress on the body. I see the "gym" as where we're trying to Improve resiliency and/or improve a specific quality (i.e. strength, mobility, power, etc). With the SAID principle in mind we can enhance someone's swing with off the course training, but it'd be a poor choice to try to fix a fault barring a true limitation.

 

I'll politely disagree with the people saying you can never get too big or inflexible from training. The reality is that hypertrophy can alter things such as pennation angle and neuromuscular coordination in a way that's negative for sports performance. For inflexibility at some point there's going to be structural adaptations that'll make someone less flexible. In order to get stronger beyond a point the body wants to decrease degrees of freedom (movement outside of a specific plane) in order to maximize movement efficiency. We'll also see changes in the shape of the thorax and pelvis due to the compression in strength training in order to give someone better concentric orientation, which takes away from somebody's ability to expand aka mobility. We can debate at which point this would occur, and will likely differ depending on the person.

How do heavyweights catch a 200kg plus snatch or clean in the hole? How does someone high bar back squat atg 200kg? 
 

here’s our Olympic 102kg Wes Kitts front squatting 462lbs. 

Edited July 13 by BWillis

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, Cwebb said:

 

Do people really claim this?  That better fitness and flexibility is the answer for all swing issues?

 

I know of experienced instructors and players that have found it to be a part of the puzzle.....and a bigger issue for some than others

Yes

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Cwebb said:

 

Do people really claim this?  That better fitness and flexibility is the answer for all swing issues?

 

I know of experienced instructors and players that have found it to be a part of the puzzle.....and a bigger issue for some than others

Happened earlier today in a thread crom

the usual suspect that ruins most threads 

[Soloman1]

1 hour ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Round is a description of a shape 

what is the mr. mccord reference?

you've been drinking, haven’t you?

[SNIPERBBB]

11 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

what is the mr. mccord reference?

you've been drinking, haven’t you?

almost the first search result for round is a shape brings up Gary McCord has having said it.