Odds of Shooting an Exceptional Tournament Score

[kiwigolf72]

Can someone give me the definition of casual rounds? 

Unless I'm a single or playing a practice round for a tournament where I hit multiple shots/putts etc then all rounds are the same. Play by the ROG and then hand in a card, I'm sorry I don't get this casual round.

[tatertot]

9 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

Can someone give me the definition of casual rounds? 

Unless I'm a single or playing a practice round for a tournament where I hit multiple shots/putts etc then all rounds are the same. Play by the ROG and then hand in a card, I'm sorry I don't get this casual round.

What? You mean not everyone is exactly like you ... They may get enjoyment out of golf in a different way than you do? Maybe they should be locked up.

[kiwigolf72]

2 minutes ago, tatertot said:

What? You mean not everyone is exactly like you ... They may get enjoyment out of golf in a different way than you do? Maybe they should be locked up.

simply asked what the definition of a casual round was as I have never heard it before; I couldn't care less what other people do.

Thought this was a forum about golf didn't realize asking a question was a problem

Edited September 26, 2023 by kiwigolf72
spelling

[tatertot]

1 minute ago, kiwigolf72 said:

simply asked what the definition of a casual round was as I have never heard it before; I couldn't care less what other people do.

Thought this was a forum about golf didn't realize asking a question was a problem

What is there to understand ... You and a buddy go out and play 18 and don't keep score ... Or you keep score, except for the one hole where you each hit 4 drives trying to get over a creek ... Or you play bingo, bingo, bongo with 3 buddies ... Lots of reasons either you're not trying to score your best, or the ROG might not be strictly followed.

[DaveLeeNC]

15 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

Can someone give me the definition of casual rounds? 

Unless I'm a single or playing a practice round for a tournament where I hit multiple shots/putts etc then all rounds are the same. Play by the ROG and then hand in a card, I'm sorry I don't get this casual round.

 

This will be kind of a "U.S. centric answer here". But for the most part any round that is not part of a pre-defined competition like a tournament or maybe a club event (special event or weekly member competition). So all those 'other rounds' (here in the US) would typically be considered casual play. That match against your buddy may well be hotly contested but is still 'casual play', just like the round that you play with your wife with nothing on the line. And here in the US in the vast majority of cases there is nowhere to "hand in a casual play card'. 

 

dave

[kiwigolf72]

3 minutes ago, tatertot said:

What is there to understand ... You and a buddy go out and play 18 and don't keep score ... Or you keep score, except for the one hole where you each hit 4 drives trying to get over a creek ... Or you play bingo, bingo, bongo with 3 buddies ... Lots of reasons either you're not trying to score your best, or the ROG might not be strictly followed.

nice attitude mate

[tatertot]

Just now, kiwigolf72 said:

nice attitude mate

Sorry man ... I can come off as a jerk ... My bad.

[goaliedad30]

31 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

simply asked what the definition of a casual round was

 

Our club is closed on Monday; members can walk or ride their personal carts after 2 pm when the crew goes home.

 

I went out today. Started on 11. The greens had been verticut and sanded, and there were no flags or cups, just the dirt holes where they were cut yesterday. I played the day before so had some idea where the holes were located. 

 

I played 2 or 3 balls off of a couple of tees working on some things. Played my first balls to greens, and mostly holed out, but a few greens were pretty spotty. Actually made 3 birdies from inside of 6 feet! Good memory for holes, apparently ...

 

Shot 74,  but it was most definitely a "casual" round of golf ... and finished in 90 minutes ....

[kiwigolf72]

Totally understand and sounds like the conditions and lack of flags didn't have any effect on you.

 

 

[kiwigolf72]

2 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

This will be kind of a "U.S. centric answer here". But for the most part any round that is not part of a pre-defined competition like a tournament or maybe a club event (special event or weekly member competition). So all those 'other rounds' (here in the US) would typically be considered casual play. That match against your buddy may well be hotly contested but is still 'casual play', just like the round that you play with your wife with nothing on the line. And here in the US in the vast majority of cases there is nowhere to "hand in a casual play card'. 

 

dave

Sounds similar to New Zealand but if you had played 9 or 18 holes then it's expected you would hand a card in.

it doesn't seem to be a thing here that players determine a casual round by playing by the ROG. 

I couldn't care less what other people do, I just find it interesting that some people have decided that for whatever reason they will just make up their own ROG and then think they are playing golf.LOL

 

[nsxguy]

15 hours ago, kiwigolf72 said:

Can someone give me the definition of casual rounds? 

Unless I'm a single or playing a practice round for a tournament where I hit multiple shots/putts etc then all rounds are the same. Play by the ROG and then hand in a card, I'm sorry I don't get this casual round.

 

As I understand it, In the context of golf, "casual" would typically mean the round is NOT a "formal" competition.

 

Below is from the USGA site.

Fundamentals of Handicapping

Q. How do I determine if a score is acceptable for handicap purposes?

A. A score is acceptable for handicap purposes if the round has been played:

• In an authorized format of play (see Rule 2.1a) over at least the minimum number of holes required for either a 9-hole or an 18-hole score to be acceptable (see Rule 2.2),
• In the company of at least one other person, who may also act as a marker (subject to satisfying any other requirements of the Rules of Golf),
• By the Rules of Golf (see Rule 2.1b),
• On a golf course with a current Course Rating and Slope Rating, where length and normal playing difficulty is maintained at a consistent level (see Appendix G),
• On a golf course during its active season.

[kiwigolf72]

It doesn't need to be a formal competition to comply with the ROG, as long as you meet the other requirements, not a single etc then we all should be handing a card in.

In New Zealand we don't seem to have a big problem with false handicaps turning up at a tournament and shooting a super low score, it does happen but generally it's because someone got hot that day.

If it's the norm in the USA and other places to play outside of organised competition and use the excuse of, we were not playing by the ROG, we were not trying etc so we won't hand a card in,this very quickly bleeds into I just had a net 65 but won't put a card in because I have a competition on Saturday and I don't want my hc cut.

 

[mark m]

1 hour ago, kiwigolf72 said:

It doesn't need to be a formal competition to comply with the ROG, as long as you meet the other requirements, not a single etc then we all should be handing a card in.

In New Zealand we don't seem to have a big problem with false handicaps turning up at a tournament and shooting a super low score, it does happen but generally it's because someone got hot that day.

If it's the norm in the USA and other places to play outside of organised competition and use the excuse of, we were not playing by the ROG, we were not trying etc so we won't hand a card in,this very quickly bleeds into I just had a net 65 but won't put a card in because I have a competition on Saturday and I don't want my hc cut.

 

I think you are getting an understanding of why we have problems here in the US. I will post more later, but one of the most important duties of a functioning Handicap Committee is to educate the members on the system. Many clubs don’t do it, or do it poorly. A key part which is not adequately proclaimed is player responsibilities:

 

 

[Golferpaul]

On 9/25/2023 at 2:12 PM, Snowman9000 said:

 

Those have only existed on paper, if at all, at the clubs I've belonged to.  I've never heard one talked about at a club or course, not once.   That's unfortunate.  I wonder how widespread it is.

I was a member of the handicap committee at my previous club.  There are a few things that the committee can do which are somewhat effective.

 

You can audit the handicap of everyone who wins money in a tournament.  We found many instances of winners not posting all of their scores.  So we warned the MGA members that we would not pay them their prize money if they were not posting all their scores.  We saw a huge increase in score postings very quickly.

 

Another is education.  We communicated the handicap rules about when to post and when you cannot post.  Many who were not posting nine-hole rounds began to post them as the USGA specifies.

[RoyalMustang]

I did exactly the 536 to 1 thing last year: I was a 7 and shot a 73 on a 72.4 course. 

 

Nobody said a thing: I had turned in an 87 the month before and I followed it up with an 85 the day after. 

 

I just happen to hit the ball a long way and on a 6200 yard course, found the fairway a ton for a change. Eagle putts on par 4s tend to help out the score. 

 

These odds show why I haven't been down there again since.  

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, RoyalMustang said:

I did exactly the 536 to 1 thing last year: I was a 7 and shot a 73 on a 72.4 course. 

 

Nobody said a thing: I had turned in an 87 the month before and I followed it up with an 85 the day after. 

 

I just happen to hit the ball a long way and on a 6200 yard course, found the fairway a ton for a change. Eagle putts on par 4s tend to help out the score. 

 

These odds show why I haven't been down there again since.  

Dang, 72.4 at 6200 sounds tough.

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

Dang, 72.4 at 6200 sounds tough.

 

Sure does.

 

That rating seems awfully high for your average 6,200-yard course. 

 

 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by nsxguy

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

Sure does.

 

That rating seems awfully high for your average 6,200-yard course. 

 

 

 

 

This course is anything but average. The fairways are 23 yards wide lined by trees on a bunch of holes. You will be 5 yards in the fairway and faced with overhanging branches on multiple holes. If you can't hard cut your driver or 3W on a couple of holes, you can't hit it; your ball will roll out of play as the no-grass fairway slopes right down to a hazard. Locals hit away into the trees so that they can punch out and skip the fairway altogether. The pro here told me that it has the most unfair hole in all of DFW, along with the 2nd. You can tell it was built on the cheap. 

 

Did I mention that 3 greens are so steep that if they put the pin in certain locations, your ball will roll up to the hole and then back down 15 feet. Either it goes in or you are looking at another 15 footer. I think they just laid sod over the entire place; moving dirt wasn't a priority. 

 

It's a stupid contrived course; nobody really likes playing there. I heard it is the process of being sold which is great; it needs a redesign. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by RoyalMustang

[nsxguy]

23 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

This course is anything but average. The fairways are 23 yards wide lined by trees on a bunch of holes. You will be 5 yards in the fairway and faced with overhanging branches on multiple holes. If you can't hard cut your driver or 3W on a couple of holes, you can't hit it; your ball will roll out of play as the no-grass fairway slopes right down to a hazard. Locals hit away into the trees so that they can punch out and skip the fairway altogether. The pro here told me that it has the most unfair hole in all of DFW, along with the 2nd.

 

So what's the name of the course ?

[RoyalMustang]

14 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

So what's the name of the course ?

 

Eldorado in McKinney, Texas. 

 

My friends that are still there pay to play at my course pretty often these days, if that tells you anything! And it's a 6300 yard course, not 6200 yards. My bad. 

[DaveLeeNC]

6 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Eldorado in McKinney, Texas. 

 

My friends that are still there pay to play at my course pretty often these days, if that tells you anything! And it's a 6300 yard course, not 6200 yards. My bad. 

 

Per the Eldorado website the WHITE tees are 6188 yards. And per the USGA database the rating/slope from those tees is 70.7/135. I am not sure where 6200 yards (or 6300 yards) at  72.4 comes from. There seems to be a 'Player's Tees' configuration that lives somewhere between 6200 yards and the black tees at 6800 yards (74.4/141). But something seems inconsistent here.

 

dave

[RoyalMustang]

34 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

 

Per the Eldorado website the WHITE tees are 6188 yards. And per the USGA database the rating/slope from those tees is 70.7/135. I am not sure where 6200 yards (or 6300 yards) at  72.4 comes from. There seems to be a 'Player's Tees' configuration that lives somewhere between 6200 yards and the black tees at 6800 yards (74.4/141). But something seems inconsistent here.

 

dave

 

It's players' tees; somebody said they were 6300. They might have been wrong though on distance: it's not on the scorecard. Either way it's a tough course. 74.4/141 from 6700 yards (pretty sure it wasn't 6800) is no joke either. Best I ever shot from those tees was a 78.  

 

I gave up my membership a year ago and am not really up to date, sorry

[nsxguy]

41 minutes ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

It's players' tees; somebody said they were 6300. They might have been wrong though on distance: it's not on the scorecard. Either way it's a tough course. 74.4/141 from 6700 yards (pretty sure it wasn't 6800) is no joke either. Best I ever shot from those tees was a 78.  

 

I gave up my membership a year ago and am not really up to date, sorry

 

No worries. Given your description, I'd have given up on that place too.

 

Looks like it is 6188 according to the scorecard but the rating is 70.7, not 72.4. Differential (for a 73) is 1.8 , so ~5.2 better than your (7.X) index.

 

So, not quite a "yellow box" score but still a terrific round, especially given those greens. 👍

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by nsxguy

[DaveLeeNC]

@RoyalMustang What you described reminds me of hole #8 on the 9 hole muni (back in Missouri) where I learned the game of golf (early 1960's, BTW). It is a long way from high end but not a bad course (9 holes, BTW).  However the eighth is a problem in my mind. It is a short par 4 and unless you can hit your driver past 250 there is NO path to the green from the fairway or the rough that is not obstructed by tree limbs. And there is a permanent drainage ditch that runs across the front of the green ready to capture that low running  punch shot that you just hit under the trees. Good course otherwise and when I was a kid there was a (narrow) open path between those trees (that no longer exists). 

 

dave

 

[Shilgy]

8 hours ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

Eldorado in McKinney, Texas. 

 

My friends that are still there pay to play at my course pretty often these days, if that tells you anything! And it's a 6300 yard course, not 6200 yards. My bad. 

70.7 from 6188 makes more sense.

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

70.7 from 6188 makes more sense.

 

It wasn't the 70.7 tees: I looked and I had a 1.3 index score off of a 73. I was a 7.1 at the time. 

[ChaosTheory]

How about the Dunhill Links team scores?

At this moment, nearing the end of 3 rounds, Matt Fitz is -18 and his team (with his mother) is -34.  I looked up the format.  It's better ball (aka four ball), with the amateur player getting 2/3rds of his (0-18) or her (0-24) handicap. 

 

So, am I correct in deducing that Mom Fitz has netted AT LEAST -16 net over 3 rounds?  With only 2/3rds of her cap.    This seems obvious but maybe I'm not thinking clearly.  🙂

 

I'm sure this is common in these celebrity type formats.  I recall Aaron Rodgers got a lot of flack for his score at Pebble (I think it was).

[ThinkingPlus]

10 minutes ago, Snowman9000 said:

How about the Dunhill Links team scores?

At this moment, nearing the end of 3 rounds, Matt Fitz is -18 and his team (with his mother) is -34.  I looked up the format.  It's better ball (aka four ball), with the amateur player getting 2/3rds of his (0-18) or her (0-24) handicap. 

 

So, am I correct in deducing that Mom Fitz has netted AT LEAST -16 net over 3 roundsquite?  With only 2/3rds of her cap.    This seems obvious but maybe I'm not thinking clearly.  🙂

 

I'm sure this is common in these celebrity type formats.  I recall Aaron Rodgers got a lot of flack for his score at Pebble (I think it was).

Not quite. She has contributed -16 net to the best ball score. She could have played less well on the other 38 holes with her total net score each day being near par or over par (the ham and egg factor). In general though, ams who are part of a winning team in these pro-am events played very well and better than their cap. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

10 minutes ago, Snowman9000 said:

How about the Dunhill Links team scores?

At this moment, nearing the end of 3 rounds, Matt Fitz is -18 and his team (with his mother) is -34.  I looked up the format.  It's better ball (aka four ball), with the amateur player getting 2/3rds of his (0-18) or her (0-24) handicap. 

 

So, am I correct in deducing that Mom Fitz has netted AT LEAST -16 net over 3 rounds?  With only 2/3rds of her cap.    This seems obvious but maybe I'm not thinking clearly.  🙂

 

I'm sure this is common in these celebrity type formats.  I recall Aaron Rodgers got a lot of flack for his score at Pebble (I think it was).

 

I can see that happening. I'm a 21. I played bogey golf (+18) at my usual course yesterday, which is an easier course so my net differential was 22.6. 

 

My course handicap there is 17. I made one birdie, four pars, and none of them were on the 18th hdcp hole, so on those 5 holes, I would be a net -6. 

 

There are a lot of higher-cap golfers like me, who can string together good holes, make a decent number of pars and an occasional birdie, but it's the doubles and triples that end up causing our handicap to be high. 

 

In a fourball, Matt saves his mom's high numbers from affecting the team score, but it's likely that any birdie she makes is an eagle, and any par she makes is a birdie, so all her good holes DO help the team score. 

 

I.e. the round I played yesterday, depending on what Matt scored on those holes, I could have contributed -6 to the team score in one round while all of my doubles and my one triple didn't count against the team because Matt would likely play conservatively when I sprayed a bad one OB and just made a safe par. 

[ChaosTheory]

52 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

(the ham and egg factor)

 

Doh!  I knew it was too early for me to be posting.  🙂

Thanks.