How does Dustin Johnson not hook every shot?

[dlygrisse]

The club is more de-lofted at the top than closed. This is really nothing more than Hogan's bowed left wrist at the top of the backswing, instead of just through impact.

[Mozza73]

You're losing me with the fly swatter reference. Probably my own denseness, but can you explain/elaborate?

 

As I read it its basically getting the right forearm on plane with the shaft at address, this necessitates a slight hinging of the right arm at address to allow this and allowing the club to run more through the palm of the right hand rather than across it.

 

am I close?

[dpb5031]

The club is more de-lofted at the top than closed. This is really nothing more than Hogan's bowed left wrist at the top of the backswing, instead of just through impact.

 

Lots of good players are open/cupped/toe-down at the top but bow the left wrist somewhere between transition into P6/P7 to get it back to square to the arc.

[oikos1]

How does Bubba Watson keep the ball in play at all? I'm happy for his win, but what a wild swing...

 

I'm with you there. Bubba's swing is just, let's say, unpleasant to watch. The one thing I do like is that he's never had a lesson. He's not tormented by the teachings of traditional American golf instruction. He's figured out how to make the ball do what he wants and doesn't care what it looks like.

 

So many of amateurs are tortured by what they "think" is correct yet doesn't produce the result they want, so they just keep trying harder and harder leading to frustration and anger.

 

I always wondered how someone would play if I said to them, "I'll give you a million dollars to shoot even par. You get one chance." Would they ever hit driver or would they just hit putter the whole round? What would be the most effective method of moving that ball through the course with all conventional golf method aside? I imagine most people would hit putter a lot. Personally, I use a putter all the time from under trees or anywhere I want to make sure to get out. Friends are always asking, "you hit putter there?" "Yes! It stays low. Has top spin and you pretty much can't chunk a putter." (I played 9 holes with only a putter once and parred most holes.)

My point is, if you'd play differently if you were playing for a million dollars, why aren't you playing that way now? The point of the game is to move the ball through the course as efficiently as possible. It's not about style, it's not about how, it's how many.

 

I have a friend who's never been especially good at golf and he said to me one day, "I can kill it if I use a baseball grip." He did! I said, "Why the hell wouldn't you do that all the time? There's nothing wrong with that and if it works for you, do it." He'd been doing what he thought was correct although it made him a much worse golfer, and yet he did it anyway! That's just crazy. How many people out there are doing what they think is correct but it makes them horrible golfers? Most people with athletic ability are pretty good when they first start, then someone gets a hold of them and tells them about weight shift and swing plane and next thing you know they can't hit the ball to save their life. They can't remember what it was like to swing a club before these stupid concepts infected their head. Before there was no thought, the body did what it needed to do unconsciously, but now, there's something there that can't be forgotten, preventing the body from moving so naturally as it once did.

 

I wish we could simply wipe the concept of "weight shift" out of existence and replace it with "pressure transfer." The concept of weight shift makes almost everyone do idiotic things. We'd be so much better off without it.

 

"I played 9 holes with only a putter once and parred most holes." If it was for a million dollars, "I imagine most people would play putter a lot."

 

How much $$$ do you think the pros play for every week? You cannot make this stuff up.

[glk]

How does Bubba Watson keep the ball in play at all? I'm happy for his win, but what a wild swing...

 

I'm with you there. Bubba's swing is just, let's say, unpleasant to watch. The one thing I do like is that he's never had a lesson. He's not tormented by the teachings of traditional American golf instruction. He's figured out how to make the ball do what he wants and doesn't care what it looks like.

 

So many of amateurs are tortured by what they "think" is correct yet doesn't produce the result they want, so they just keep trying harder and harder leading to frustration and anger.

 

I always wondered how someone would play if I said to them, "I'll give you a million dollars to shoot even par. You get one chance." Would they ever hit driver or would they just hit putter the whole round? What would be the most effective method of moving that ball through the course with all conventional golf method aside? I imagine most people would hit putter a lot. Personally, I use a putter all the time from under trees or anywhere I want to make sure to get out. Friends are always asking, "you hit putter there?" "Yes! It stays low. Has top spin and you pretty much can't chunk a putter." (I played 9 holes with only a putter once and parred most holes.)

My point is, if you'd play differently if you were playing for a million dollars, why aren't you playing that way now? The point of the game is to move the ball through the course as efficiently as possible. It's not about style, it's not about how, it's how many.

 

I have a friend who's never been especially good at golf and he said to me one day, "I can kill it if I use a baseball grip." He did! I said, "Why the hell wouldn't you do that all the time? There's nothing wrong with that and if it works for you, do it." He'd been doing what he thought was correct although it made him a much worse golfer, and yet he did it anyway! That's just crazy. How many people out there are doing what they think is correct but it makes them horrible golfers? Most people with athletic ability are pretty good when they first start, then someone gets a hold of them and tells them about weight shift and swing plane and next thing you know they can't hit the ball to save their life. They can't remember what it was like to swing a club before these stupid concepts infected their head. Before there was no thought, the body did what it needed to do unconsciously, but now, there's something there that can't be forgotten, preventing the body from moving so naturally as it once did.

 

I wish we could simply wipe the concept of "weight shift" out of existence and replace it with "pressure transfer." The concept of weight shift makes almost everyone do idiotic things. We'd be so much better off without it.

 

"I played 9 holes with only a putter once and parred most holes." If it was for a million dollars, "I imagine most people would play putter a lot."

 

How much $$$ do you think the pros play for every week? You cannot make this stuff up.

Yes we all know that the correct club is the 7i. Lol

[MK7Golf21]

You're losing me with the fly swatter reference. Probably my own denseness, but can you explain/elaborate?

 

As I read it its basically getting the right forearm on plane with the shaft at address, this necessitates a slight hinging of the right arm at address to allow this and allowing the club to run more through the palm of the right hand rather than across it.

 

am I close?

 

I'm not seeing what he is trying to describe. I know Dustin uses a strong grip and a short thumb (thumb wrapped all the way around like a baseball bat). Other than that I don't know what he's saying about a flyswatter etc

[dlygrisse]

The club is more de-lofted at the top than closed. This is really nothing more than Hogan's bowed left wrist at the top of the backswing, instead of just through impact.

 

Lots of good players are open/cupped/toe-down at the top but bow the left wrist somewhere between transition into P6/P7 to get it back to square to the arc.

Agreed.

 

My point is, a bowed wrist at the top is often confused with the face being closed, when in fact all it really means is delofted. It MIGHT be closed, it MIGHT NOT be closed.

 

If you were to bow your wrist at address (forward press)and then just carried that position to the top, most people would consider it closed, but in fact it would be square.

[dpb5031]

The club is more de-lofted at the top than closed. This is really nothing more than Hogan's bowed left wrist at the top of the backswing, instead of just through impact.

 

Lots of good players are open/cupped/toe-down at the top but bow the left wrist somewhere between transition into P6/P7 to get it back to square to the arc.

Agreed.

 

My point is, a bowed wrist at the top is often confused with the face being closed, when in fact all it really means is delofted. It MIGHT be closed, it MIGHT NOT be closed.

 

If you were to bow your wrist at address (forward press)and then just carried that position to the top, most people would consider it closed, but in fact it would be square.

 

Strength of left hand grip is major factor

[WILDTHING]

Watch the big hitters as they're taking the club away, there's a little move where they turn their right palm toward the ground, bending the right wrist backward or in "extension."

Most amateurs either leave the right wrist neutral or move it the opposite direction, into "flexion," as they take the club away.

 

Try to put your right wrist in extension, without the left wrist going into flexion. As long as your hands are on the same club one has to do the opposite of the other. Also, if you're holding the club like a flyswatter with the right hand none of this is possible.

 

When you mention 'Try to put your right wrist in extension, without the left wrist going into flexion' , doesn't that depend on your grip?

 

For example (my wrists react the following way):

 

1.If I have a very strong left hand grip (neutral right hand grip) , right wrist extension will cause left wrist 'radial deviation'.

 

2.If I have a very weak left hand grip (right hand neutral) , then right wrist extension will cause mostly left wrist flexion .

 

3.If I have a neutral grip (right hand neutral) , right wrist extension causes a bit of left wrist flexion and radial deviation.

 

Of course , other people's wrist movements might work differently to mine so I don't think there is a set rule about how the wrists move for various golfers. For example , when my right wrist is fully extended , I cannot radial deviate my wrist without pronating my right forearm (but others might be able to do that move without any pronation).

[CoiledUP]

Can't believe how many responses dance around the obvious answer to why DJ doesn't hook every shot. He doesn't hook because, if he wanted to, he COULD hook every shot. Geez!

[Golfjack]

Just try to get into the same impact position as DJ. Now keep your wrist bowed like him, it's actually fairly square at impact. Now switch the wrist to be "open" at the top (as in cupping your left wrist). It's actually closed at impact. The more modern swing uses body rotation to turn through the ball, not using wrists to rotate through it. I think maybe the open and closed at top of the swing is a remnant the old school swing, and is just a way to describe as in terminology for positions at the top of the back swing, but is confusing people that oh closed at the top means it will be closed at impact.

 

Assuming you want to get back to square at impact, the DJ wrist angle will give you a lower launch, versus a more open wrist angle will give you a higher launch. That's just basic physics. You can find stuff about that on youtube, so I think @dlygrisse has it right. I can hit a push, pull, straight, etc with the DJ wrist angle, it'll just be all lower launching versus other wrist angles. Crossfield has one where he talks about that. For me it's the difference (not that I can execute it every time) a high cutty fade versus and low punchy fade.

[redraider1685]

Just try to get into the same impact position as DJ. Now keep your wrist bowed like him, it's actually fairly square at impact. Now switch the wrist to be "open" at the top (as in cupping your left wrist). It's actually closed at impact. The more modern swing uses body rotation to turn through the ball, not using wrists to rotate through it. I think maybe the open and closed at top of the swing is a remnant the old school swing, and is just a way to describe as in terminology for positions at the top of the back swing, but is confusing people that oh closed at the top means it will be closed at impact.

 

Assuming you want to get back to square at impact, the DJ wrist angle will give you a lower launch, versus a more open wrist angle will give you a higher launch. That's just basic physics. You can find stuff about that on youtube, so I think @dlygrisse has it right. I can hit a push, pull, straight, etc with the DJ wrist angle, it'll just be all lower launching versus other wrist angles. Crossfield has one where he talks about that. For me it's the difference (not that I can execute it every time) a high cutty fade versus and low punchy fade.

 

the DJ wrist angle will absolutely not give you a lower launch, you are starting to mix paths with wrist angles and shaft lean. The only way you can cup your left wrist and present a closed club face to the ball would be to lean the shaft significantly backwards, which would yes close the relative face angle and increase the loft.

 

the only way you can bow your left wrist and present an open clubface to the ball would be to significantly lean the shaft forwards

[scribling]

How does Bubba Watson keep the ball in play at all? I'm happy for his win, but what a wild swing...

 

I'm with you there. Bubba's swing is just, let's say, unpleasant to watch. The one thing I do like is that he's never had a lesson. He's not tormented by the teachings of traditional American golf instruction. He's figured out how to make the ball do what he wants and doesn't care what it looks like.

 

So many of amateurs are tortured by what they "think" is correct yet doesn't produce the result they want, so they just keep trying harder and harder leading to frustration and anger.

 

I always wondered how someone would play if I said to them, "I'll give you a million dollars to shoot even par. You get one chance." Would they ever hit driver or would they just hit putter the whole round? What would be the most effective method of moving that ball through the course with all conventional golf method aside? I imagine most people would hit putter a lot. Personally, I use a putter all the time from under trees or anywhere I want to make sure to get out. Friends are always asking, "you hit putter there?" "Yes! It stays low. Has top spin and you pretty much can't chunk a putter." (I played 9 holes with only a putter once and parred most holes.)

My point is, if you'd play differently if you were playing for a million dollars, why aren't you playing that way now? The point of the game is to move the ball through the course as efficiently as possible. It's not about style, it's not about how, it's how many.

 

I have a friend who's never been especially good at golf and he said to me one day, "I can kill it if I use a baseball grip." He did! I said, "Why the hell wouldn't you do that all the time? There's nothing wrong with that and if it works for you, do it." He'd been doing what he thought was correct although it made him a much worse golfer, and yet he did it anyway! That's just crazy. How many people out there are doing what they think is correct but it makes them horrible golfers? Most people with athletic ability are pretty good when they first start, then someone gets a hold of them and tells them about weight shift and swing plane and next thing you know they can't hit the ball to save their life. They can't remember what it was like to swing a club before these stupid concepts infected their head. Before there was no thought, the body did what it needed to do unconsciously, but now, there's something there that can't be forgotten, preventing the body from moving so naturally as it once did.

 

I wish we could simply wipe the concept of "weight shift" out of existence and replace it with "pressure transfer." The concept of weight shift makes almost everyone do idiotic things. We'd be so much better off without it.

 

"I played 9 holes with only a putter once and parred most holes." If it was for a million dollars, "I imagine most people would play putter a lot."

 

How much $$$ do you think the pros play for every week? You cannot make this stuff up.

 

I'm fully aware of how much the pros play for. My point is that if it was incredibly important to shoot par would you play differently. Lets say a billion dollars ... or the world will explode ... would you still hit driver with OB on both sides?

 

As far as the 9 holes with a putter ... yes. I wanted to show a friend you don't have to hit the ball upward. After a few holes I was hitting the putter ~250 yards dead straight. I was amazed at how easy it was to move the ball around. Also, after a playing partner hit our team ball OB on #18, on a downhill short par 4, after I told him, DO NOT HIT DRIVER HERE! YOU CAN MAKE PAR HERE WITH A PUTTER!" The next time we were there he challenged me to make par with a putter. I missed the putt for par the first time but next time made par. This idiot lost our team ball and cost us all a bunch of money. Before there were lofted clubs there was only a putter. You'd be very surprised how well you can play with just a putter and you learn to appreciate the other clubs.

[dlygrisse]

The club is more de-lofted at the top than closed. This is really nothing more than Hogan's bowed left wrist at the top of the backswing, instead of just through impact.

 

Lots of good players are open/cupped/toe-down at the top but bow the left wrist somewhere between transition into P6/P7 to get it back to square to the arc.

Agreed.

 

My point is, a bowed wrist at the top is often confused with the face being closed, when in fact all it really means is delofted. It MIGHT be closed, it MIGHT NOT be closed.

 

If you were to bow your wrist at address (forward press)and then just carried that position to the top, most people would consider it closed, but in fact it would be square.

 

Strength of left hand grip is major factor

 

Yes, and that can be deceiving. If you hands are pushed forward at address vs. centered it can create an illusion of where the clubface is and how strong your grip is. It's all about matching up the parts.

[MK7Golf21]

good thread. Question, who has actually implemented in their swing a bow to the extreme dustin johnson does and has kept it?

[iteachgolf]

How does Bubba Watson keep the ball in play at all? I'm happy for his win, but what a wild swing...

 

I'm with you there. Bubba's swing is just, let's say, unpleasant to watch. The one thing I do like is that he's never had a lesson. He's not tormented by the teachings of traditional American golf instruction. He's figured out how to make the ball do what he wants and doesn't care what it looks like.

 

So many of amateurs are tortured by what they "think" is correct yet doesn't produce the result they want, so they just keep trying harder and harder leading to frustration and anger.

 

I always wondered how someone would play if I said to them, "I'll give you a million dollars to shoot even par. You get one chance." Would they ever hit driver or would they just hit putter the whole round? What would be the most effective method of moving that ball through the course with all conventional golf method aside? I imagine most people would hit putter a lot. Personally, I use a putter all the time from under trees or anywhere I want to make sure to get out. Friends are always asking, "you hit putter there?" "Yes! It stays low. Has top spin and you pretty much can't chunk a putter." (I played 9 holes with only a putter once and parred most holes.)

My point is, if you'd play differently if you were playing for a million dollars, why aren't you playing that way now? The point of the game is to move the ball through the course as efficiently as possible. It's not about style, it's not about how, it's how many.

 

I have a friend who's never been especially good at golf and he said to me one day, "I can kill it if I use a baseball grip." He did! I said, "Why the hell wouldn't you do that all the time? There's nothing wrong with that and if it works for you, do it." He'd been doing what he thought was correct although it made him a much worse golfer, and yet he did it anyway! That's just crazy. How many people out there are doing what they think is correct but it makes them horrible golfers? Most people with athletic ability are pretty good when they first start, then someone gets a hold of them and tells them about weight shift and swing plane and next thing you know they can't hit the ball to save their life. They can't remember what it was like to swing a club before these stupid concepts infected their head. Before there was no thought, the body did what it needed to do unconsciously, but now, there's something there that can't be forgotten, preventing the body from moving so naturally as it once did.

 

I wish we could simply wipe the concept of "weight shift" out of existence and replace it with "pressure transfer." The concept of weight shift makes almost everyone do idiotic things. We'd be so much better off without it.

 

"I played 9 holes with only a putter once and parred most holes." If it was for a million dollars, "I imagine most people would play putter a lot."

 

How much $$$ do you think the pros play for every week? You cannot make this stuff up.

 

I'm fully aware of how much the pros play for. My point is that if it was incredibly important to shoot par would you play differently. Lets say a billion dollars ... or the world will explode ... would you still hit driver with OB on both sides?

 

As far as the 9 holes with a putter ... yes. I wanted to show a friend you don't have to hit the ball upward. After a few holes I was hitting the putter ~250 yards dead straight. I was amazed at how easy it was to move the ball around. Also, after a playing partner hit our team ball OB on #18, on a downhill short par 4, after I told him, DO NOT HIT DRIVER HERE! YOU CAN MAKE PAR HERE WITH A PUTTER!" The next time we were there he challenged me to make par with a putter. I missed the putt for par the first time but next time made par. This idiot lost our team ball and cost us all a bunch of money. Before there were lofted clubs there was only a putter. You'd be very surprised how well you can play with just a putter and you learn to appreciate the other clubs.

 

There’s always been lofted clubs.

[kitss]

The closed club face that people saying is toward the target and not to the path. DJ club face is open to the path but closed to target.

[MK7Golf21]

one of the most in depth driver lessons from Dustin himself (sarcastic)

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/video/dj-driving-tip-never-swing-full-power/

[yellowballs]

To hit a proper fade do you have to swing out to in? For example face 1* closed at impact and path 2* left.

[MonteScheinblum]

To hit a proper fade do you have to swing out to in? For example face 1* closed at impact and path 2* left.

 

No.

[yellowballs]

To hit a proper fade do you have to swing out to in? For example face 1* closed at impact and path 2* left.

 

No.

So the correct way to hit a fade is...

[Atrayn]

How does Bubba Watson keep the ball in play at all? I'm happy for his win, but what a wild swing...

 

I'm with you there. Bubba's swing is just, let's say, unpleasant to watch. The one thing I do like is that he's never had a lesson. He's not tormented by the teachings of traditional American golf instruction. He's figured out how to make the ball do what he wants and doesn't care what it looks like.

 

So many of amateurs are tortured by what they "think" is correct yet doesn't produce the result they want, so they just keep trying harder and harder leading to frustration and anger.

 

I always wondered how someone would play if I said to them, "I'll give you a million dollars to shoot even par. You get one chance." Would they ever hit driver or would they just hit putter the whole round? What would be the most effective method of moving that ball through the course with all conventional golf method aside? I imagine most people would hit putter a lot. Personally, I use a putter all the time from under trees or anywhere I want to make sure to get out. Friends are always asking, "you hit putter there?" "Yes! It stays low. Has top spin and you pretty much can't chunk a putter." (I played 9 holes with only a putter once and parred most holes.)

My point is, if you'd play differently if you were playing for a million dollars, why aren't you playing that way now? The point of the game is to move the ball through the course as efficiently as possible. It's not about style, it's not about how, it's how many.

 

I have a friend who's never been especially good at golf and he said to me one day, "I can kill it if I use a baseball grip." He did! I said, "Why the hell wouldn't you do that all the time? There's nothing wrong with that and if it works for you, do it." He'd been doing what he thought was correct although it made him a much worse golfer, and yet he did it anyway! That's just crazy. How many people out there are doing what they think is correct but it makes them horrible golfers? Most people with athletic ability are pretty good when they first start, then someone gets a hold of them and tells them about weight shift and swing plane and next thing you know they can't hit the ball to save their life. They can't remember what it was like to swing a club before these stupid concepts infected their head. Before there was no thought, the body did what it needed to do unconsciously, but now, there's something there that can't be forgotten, preventing the body from moving so naturally as it once did.

 

I wish we could simply wipe the concept of "weight shift" out of existence and replace it with "pressure transfer." The concept of weight shift makes almost everyone do idiotic things. We'd be so much better off without it.

 

I loved Bubba's post round interview where he said he can't play this course well because there are trees in the way, not in play but basically in his sight line and because of it he struggles....shows how important visualization is especially for him.

[MK7Golf21]

here's a question to some who might have some insight, how does Dustin get his body so close to the ground on downswing and have an upright swing especially with driver? It looks like he hits up on the driver too, just crazy to me.

[MK7Golf21]

I think he makes room by getting his left shoulder so high and vertical into impact, since lead arm is connected it shallows out.

[pearsonified]

I'm not seeing what he is trying to describe. I know Dustin uses a strong grip and a short thumb (thumb wrapped all the way around like a baseball bat). Other than that I don't know what he's saying about a flyswatter etc

Just have to bring up a personal pet peeve:

 

RedJeep is talking about DJ's right thumb. Every other time you ever see "thumb length" mentioned in golf instruction (or even chatter), it's referencing the left thumb (a la Hogan).

 

Something to be aware of if you are reading about and exploring the concepts discussed here.

[fillwelix]

To hit a proper fade do you have to swing out to in? For example face 1* closed at impact and path 2* left.

 

No.

So the correct way to hit a fade is...

 

There was an interview with DJ and he ever so wisely said "the most important thing if you wanna hit a fade is: you have to fade it"

[MK7Golf21]

To hit a proper fade do you have to swing out to in? For example face 1* closed at impact and path 2* left.

 

No.

So the correct way to hit a fade is...

 

There was an interview with DJ and he ever so wisely said "the most important thing if you wanna hit a fade is: you have to fade it"

 

Have to love Dustin’s swing instruction videos, “if you want to hit a fade just practice”

[yellowballs]

I was hoping Monte would tell me how. I thought I understood ball flight laws, but apparently not.

[ebrasmus21]

I was hoping Monte would tell me how. I thought I understood ball flight laws, but apparently not.

 

Y.B.

 

I'm not sure how Monte teaches the fade but give this video a watch.

 

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/hit-power-cut/

[MonteScheinblum]

I was hoping Monte would tell me how. I thought I understood ball flight laws, but apparently not.

 

You asked me if a proper fade had to be out to in, the answer was no.

 

Face just has to be open to path.