Request for Handicap Flags

[jwfgolfpro]

Sure seems like more people are asking?

Just an observation at my facility this year but it seems like alot more golfers are requesting handicap flags.

I am all for allowing folks with a disability to use these flags to allow them to enjoy this great game but more & more people that DON'T seem to have anything wrong are requesting them.

Any thoughts?

JWF

[oneunderbogey]

Yeah you sure to get some lazy a** people wanting them, but what are you gonna do. You cant really say you look fine to me. Walk the few hundred steps.

[jwfgolfpro]

[quote name='oneunderbogey' timestamp='1317314526' post='3603105']
Yeah you sure to get some lazy a** people wanting them, but what are you gonna do. You cant really say you look fine to me. Walk the few hundred steps.
[/quote]

I have had situations where the opportunity presented itself and I have asked the person "Is flag for you"? Actually had a few decide not to take the flag when I asked.

JWF

[Sawgrass]

I have to wonder whether it really matters. As long a most people are avoiding the restricted areas, does a few more getting close to the green that big an issue?

And I am sure that "most" people will never request a handicap flag just because they're lazy. It's too sad a thing to cheat about -- especially given the limited benefit and effort required to cheat.

All that would lead me to never challenge a person who requests a flag. It's way too touchy a subject. If I needed one and someone gave me a hard time about it, I don't know if I would easily forgive them.

[dennis4190]

I work at a practice facility that has a nice par 3 course, a man walked in and asked for a handicap flag, his handicap is he only has one arm, I didn't argue, just gave him one but WTF?

[hef63303]

More golfers are getting older. Many more will be needing the flags.

[k5kumma]

Did you have a lot of cart path only days? Seems everyother time I played this year it was cart path only. With my bad knees, hip and back it was chore on those days, I can only pray to be playing 20 years form now. Just be happy people are playing, who cares if they need handicap flags, and really why would you care?

[WHC888]

played with this guy once, he told me that he always asks for the HCP flag because his doctor told him that he is not suitable to walk.......YET......he plays 6 times a week!!!

[jwfgolfpro]

[quote name='k5kumma' timestamp='1317350020' post='3606007']
Did you have a lot of cart path only days? Seems everyother time I played this year it was cart path only. With my bad knees, hip and back it was chore on those days, I can only pray to be playing 20 years form now. Just be happy people are playing, who cares if they need handicap flags, and really why would you care?
[/quote]

Let me start this by saying if the customer has a legitimate handicap I will hand out flags all day long !

As an owner/operator the reason I care is the supposedly handicap people asking for flags are not actually handicapped. Just flat out lazy. Will drive the carts right up to the fringe of the green if they have the handicap flag. Have you ever seen the wear damage that can be done from repeatedly driving a golf cart in a confined area?

"CART PATH ONLY" day are a pain and I don't like them either but it is necessary to protect the fairways. How about if I come drive all around your yard after a big rain???

JWF

[Grumpy Superintendent]

[quote name='jwfgolfpro' timestamp='1317382677' post='3607001']
[quote name='k5kumma' timestamp='1317350020' post='3606007']
Did you have a lot of cart path only days? Seems everyother time I played this year it was cart path only. With my bad knees, hip and back it was chore on those days, I can only pray to be playing 20 years form now. Just be happy people are playing, who cares if they need handicap flags, and really why would you care?
[/quote]

Let me start this by saying if the customer has a legitimate handicap I will hand out flags all day long !

As an owner/operator the reason I care is the supposedly handicap people asking for flags are not actually handicapped. Just flat out lazy. Will drive the carts right up to the fringe of the green if they have the handicap flag. Have you ever seen the wear damage that can be done from repeatedly driving a golf cart in a confined area?

"CART PATH ONLY" day are a pain and I don't like them either but it is necessary to protect the fairways. How about if I come drive all around your yard after a big rain???


JWF
[/quote]

JW is exactly right about the abuses of the hdcp flag. Im a golf course superintendent and sympathize with the staff on the front lines at the pro shop who have to tell members/guests that some or all fwys are closed. What gets me more than anything is the cart playing along with the hdcp cart also takes advantage and drives alongside the hdcp cart.

[Don W]

Used to play with two old guys that are handicapped, one quit after being told to either get a flag or keep the cart on path, he walks at a snails pace so a round would be an eternity if he had to walk from path to every shot. Ranger asked me if he should get a flag for him, my reply was to ask him your self but to be ready to duck, he got so pissed he hasn't been back out with us since. Sad as he was once scratch and still hits it dead straight just can't generate club head speed to get the distance, parred all but the longest of holes generally and was one of the nicest guys on the course. Definitely miss playing with him.

The other has enough attitude to keep playing but his days are numbered, has short leg due to a botched operation, combined with his age he struggles to walk around with out falling. He repeatedly gets grief from the ranger (this course employs the Barny Fiphe methodology of rules enforcement) at one course we play even though they know him well enough to greet him by name when he arrives at the course. He doesn't run the cart right to the edge of green but does need to stay on the most level ground possible which requires he drive in areas that shouldn't be used by the majority of golf carts. To see him early in the round one would think what's the problem but after 15 holes he is pretty much wiped out and lately has not been finishing his rounds with us, he loves golf and you can see it's killing him to not be able to play like he once could. The whole scenario of handicap flags is such a catch 22 for all parties involved.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Don W' timestamp='1317387272' post='3607205']
The whole scenario of handicap flags is such a catch 22 for all parties involved.
[/quote]


Yes, but it shouldn't be a Catch 22.


One of the things many people like about golf is that it's a "game for a lifetime." I used to love to play basketball, but it simply takes me too darn long to heal nowadays after a twisted ankle or elbow in the face. Yet I'm playing the best golf of my life.

Nevertheless, many of us will reach the day where we wish to continue playing but can't walk well enough. IMO it's a small price to pay to allow these folks to drive near greens. If it takes more maintenance, or conversely if it means the areas around the greens aren't as nice as they might be, that's a reasonable exchange for every one of us to either benefit from the hope or the reality of playing golf forever.

[kafka01]

Sorry - but what is a handicap flag? Do you carry it or put it on your bag? What kind of advantage is this supposed to give you? Never have heard of it before.

[TheMackDaddy]

+1 im lost...[quote name='kafka01' timestamp='1317409453' post='3608715']
Sorry - but what is a handicap flag? Do you carry it or put it on your bag? What kind of advantage is this supposed to give you? Never have heard of it before.
[/quote]

[tpariff]

It's not just at the golf course. I've seen many people park in handicap spots, put up the hang tag, then get out of the car and walk around the mall like the rest of us. There will always be those who abuse the system.

[Sawgrass]

A handicap flag displayed on a motorized golf cart allows the driver to go in areas otherwise restricted, such as driving close to greens, or possibly off the paved cart path when others are required to stay on the path.

[spoonhead]

I am just recovering from a knee replacement 2 months ago, and I have been out twice now, with the handicap flag. Managed to play the full 18 both times, but without the handicap cart I sure would not have been able to do it.

I expect to be walking 18 by the spring so it shouldnt be a long term experience. If the only way I could play full time was to use the handicap cart I wouldn't give it a second thought.

As other said, it will be happening more and more as the boomers continue to get older, my only concern is that like so much of what happens on the course, people will abuse the right. They will either get a handicap cart when they don't really need it, or abuse the considerable latitude given them on the freedom to drive anywere they want.

Maybe the answer is to have courses get a few segways for the handicap players, less footprint to screw up the course...Maybe not.

[Sawgrass]

Maybe the answer is to have courses get a few segways for the handicap players, less footprint to screw up the course...Maybe not.

 

My recollection is that a healthy George Bush couldn't keep his Segway upright, and he wasn't even carrying clubs. I'm not sure that forcing handicapped people on them is the best all around solution.

[TexasAg]

Not everybody that [i]needs [/i]a handicap flag [i]looks [/i]like they need a handicap flag at first glance (same goes for handicap tags for cars).

[JP101]

Handicap flags are flat out abused. There are guys that run in from our parking lot to the clubhouse then ask for a handicap flag. We also have players that walk 18 holes a couple times a week then when they ride they want a flag to basically park by the green. A lot of it is pure laziness.

[Quasimoto]

Can't say that I notice more on the golf course, but sure as hell at store parking lots.

There are a whole number of young people driving Granny's car with a blue hcp tag, and they are in quite able condition all the while parking in the designated stalls.

I couldn't do this, I guess some people have no self respect.

[jbl]

I don't use flags as an owner/operator. My basic rule of thumb is to observe people and how they drive. If an older gentleman or lady (or the guy with one leg the other day) takes a few liberties with the cart they won't be bothered. If it's a group of 30-somethings then they are expected to obey the rules strictly. Deciding whether or not to give individuals flags could be a full time job alone.

[Greenie]

[quote name='TexasAg' timestamp='1317417259' post='3609271']
Not everybody that [i]needs [/i]a handicap flag [i]looks [/i]like they need a handicap flag at first glance (same goes for handicap tags for cars).
[/quote]

I totally agree with you. Having a handicap wife and being handicap myself we sometime get questioned from "the parking lot patrol " or over hear snide remarks from people about what handicaps we have as we leave our car after parking in a handicap space. We applied for and were approved for our permits so I don't feel the need to explain to anybody why we don't look handicap.. My wife and I would gladly trade our handicaps for a farther parking space.


[quote name='JP101' timestamp='1317417766' post='3609299']
Handicap flags are flat out abused. There are guys that run in from our parking lot to the clubhouse then ask for a handicap flag. We also have players that walk 18 holes a couple times a week then when they ride they want a flag to basically park by the green. A lot of it is pure laziness.
[/quote]


I am not saying handicap flags are not abused but your statements don't really prove those players are not handicap. I am handicapped. I have two herniated discs in my lower back. I have walked 18 sometimes 36 in a single day during the same week then needed a flag later in the week. I like to think I am not handicapped , end up doing to much, then pay the price sooner or later.There are times I can't even bend over and put me shoes on and can barely walk. I have played golf on some of those bad days , rode in a cart and had my friends pick my ball out of the hole. There are some days I don't show my handicap when I show up to play golf. I can still run accross the parking lot carrying my bag. If I ask for a flag it's because I don't want a ok day for me to turn into a bad back day and to pay the price later in my round or the next day from doing to much. I would love to be a normal person everyday of my life but I doesn't work that way for me. So don't knock me if I ask for that flag and seem normal. I want to be normal, act normal and enjoy the game of golf the best I can.

[rony]

I have noticed this at our course this year also. I'm a Ranger so I get a "Heads Up" from the starter with the cart number. The people that are questionable in my mind seem to simply be over weight and terribly out of shape, and as others have said, simply want to walk even less than normal with a cart. We (Rangers) are not however allowed to say anything. That is handled by the Pro Shop Desk People.

[1969EType]

One of the worst days at my hotel...

As a department head, I drew a manager on duty shift on a weekend we hosted a group of veterans attending a funeral. In the morning, several of the group came down to wait in the lobby for their transportation. One member of this group happened to be blind and was utilizing the assistance of a guide dog. I was back in my office when I overheard my desk agent start yelling at the guest with the guide dog, "Sir! I'm sorry, sir! We do NOT allow pets in this hotel! You'll have to leave immediately!"

In short, we nearly lost the hotel...

It was the first time I ever fired someone without having to conduct a 5-day investigation into the incident or place them on an "action plan" first. Surprisingly, I didn't even raise my voice to the guy when I fired him. I simply said, "The man you yelled at is blind. The dog that accompanies him is a guide dog and not...a pet. As such, we as a business have no issue with that. On top of what just happened, that man is a veteran and on top of that he's here staying at our hotel to bury his buddy who I have no doubt forgot more about being a man than either you or I can ever hope to fully understand. So, you can understand why I have no choice but to let you go."

If someone asks for a flag...please, give them the flag whether you think you can identify their disability or not. If their "flag use" causes what you feel is excessive wear or damage to your course, go at the work of repairing or maintaining the excessively worn or damaged ground with pride knowing that you are making it possible for someone differently abled to enjoy a round of golf.

[D.Bush]

If a golfer has a handicap decal issued by the state DMV, that along should be sufficient evidence to justify a handicap flag for their cart and allow access to normal “no carts” areas (excluding greens, tee boxes, bunkers & otherwise hazardous areas. That said, out of respect for the course, if the wx mandates “cart path only” HDCP golfers should not drive carts off the path by either not playing or perhaps only playing 9. 
I am a 89 year old who suffers from AFIB & hip issues which make walking difficult. I would like to play as long as I can & need accommodation to do so.

I also have played for 80 years & know how to respect the course & the hard work greenkeepers do to make the game enjoyable. 
 

Reasonable accommodation & requiring those who are responsible for using it & those who provide it may not be easy to insure - but never the less should be mandated at all clubs. 

[Shilgy]

On 3/11/2024 at 2:11 PM, D.Bush said:

If a golfer has a handicap decal issued by the state DMV, that along should be sufficient evidence to justify a handicap flag for their cart and allow access to normal “no carts” areas (excluding greens, tee boxes, bunkers & otherwise hazardous areas. That said, out of respect for the course, if the wx mandates “cart path only” HDCP golfers should not drive carts off the path by either not playing or perhaps only playing 9. 
I am a 89 year old who suffers from AFIB & hip issues which make walking difficult. I would like to play as long as I can & need accommodation to do so.

I also have played for 80 years & know how to respect the course & the hard work greenkeepers do to make the game enjoyable. 
 

Reasonable accommodation & requiring those who are responsible for using it & those who provide it may not be easy to insure - but never the less should be mandated at all clubs. 

First post revives a 13 year old thread! Impressive!

 

Welcome to golfwrx!😀

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

First post revives a 13 year old thread! Impressive!

 

Welcome to golfwrx!😀

 

Hope he revives another in 13 years! How do you even stumble into this?

[st1800e]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

First post revives a 13 year old thread! Impressive!

 

Welcome to golfwrx!😀

13 years is impressive, but I don’t think it’s a record…
 

@D.Bush, welcome, great to read that you’re still out there swinging!  
 

A DMV authorization should be more than sufficient.  

[Shilgy]

26 minutes ago, st1800e said:

13 years is impressive, but I don’t think it’s a record…
 

@D.Bush, welcome, great to read that you’re still out there swinging!  
 

A DMV authorization should be more than sufficient.  

Makes me wonder if it should be.  A guy I know lost his lower leg in a motorcycle accident as a kid.  Now he’ll pull up to the club…park in the handicapped parking with his sticker….grab the bag out of the trunk and hoof it for 18.