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SuperSpeed Golf training system

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  • SirFuegoSirFuego Members  307WRX Points: 165Posts: 307 Greens
    Joined:  edited Jul 24, 2020 1:09pm #3302

    I don't think you can get a straight answer on that, because a lot has to do with your previous background.

    If you are a current or recent high-level athlete in a throwing or non-golf stick sport, then I'd imagine you have a lot "in the tank", so to speak. So overspeed training could unlock a bunch of speed for you. As a high-level athlete, you would already "know" how to move your body fast, but it might just need that trigger to unlock that speed for golf since it's less familiar than whatever sport you played in previously.

    If you have an inefficient swing right now, it's possible that overspeed training would "fix" your technical flaws (to an extent). The theory is that in an effort to swing faster, your body might improve kinematic sequencing, etc and find a more efficient way to swing. My anecdotal evidence is that it definitively made me discover better ways to swing, but I still had an over the top move after 12+ weeks of training. So I still had similar miss patterns, but they were generally less severe. I'd imagine that this differs from person-to-person. I always made it a point to hit actual balls (even if it was just hitting pitch shots with foam balls) after overspeed training to ensure I can still hit a ball.

    It's also possible that you are swinging as fast as your body can handle, and you won't see much benefit in overspeed training. In the worst case, you'll injure yourself doing so. For that type of person, their time might be better spent in the gym and hold off on overspeed training until they get a better base of strength and mobility. This is the path I'm exploring now. I did overspeed training for 12+ weeks, but really only saw a speed improvement in the first 6 weeks or so (105 to 110 on a normal driver swing). In the second half of the training, I felt like my body couldn't "keep up" with my arms and I basically plateaued at 110. I decided to stop SS training and focus on building up more strength, mobility, and explosiveness. I put on another 2mph in doing just that (5mph for the "we are playing a scramble, I'm the last person to hit, and already have a ball in the fairway" type swing). I'll probably start SS training again in the upcoming weeks again to see how that progresses.

    Realistically, most people are somewhere in between the two ends of the spectrum. In reality, it just depends how close you are to your (current) physical limits.

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  • golfpros1golfpros1 Members  7990WRX Points: 371Handicap: 0.2Posts: 7,990 Titanium Tees
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    I just got these and I'm totally sold after just one session with them. Wow... this really works. It not only creates speed and trains the muscles to be stronger and faster, but it's great for warming up as well. I think these will help my swing as well. Really glad I made the investment.

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  • Trap JuniorTrap Junior Members  957WRX Points: 120Posts: 957 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #3304

    So far I've lost speed with them. I am using them at least 3 times a week doing protocol 1 since the start of July.. Admitedly I havent been able to do weight training since the gym closed in March and remains closed and maybe the loss of muscle mass is behind it but I have lost speed since using them about 3 weeks ago. (Yes I am going all out on every swing) I will persevere for another few weeks.

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  • xmanhockey7xmanhockey7 Members  433WRX Points: 132Posts: 433 Greens
    Joined:  #3305

    I’d bet it’s the gym. If you’re not jumping, throwing, pulling type stuff you’re losing strength and power.

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  • dhc1dhc1 NYCMembers  945WRX Points: 124Handicap: 7.3Posts: 945 Golden Tee
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  • Trap JuniorTrap Junior Members  957WRX Points: 120Posts: 957 Golden Tee
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    Yes. My speed with the sticks might have picked up but when I'm hitting balls my driver swing speed has definitely dropped 5mph

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  • leekgolfleekgolf Members  1231WRX Points: 75Handicap: 9Posts: 1,231 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #3308

    A couple of probably stupid questions:

    1. I've often read the phrase, Swing fast, not hard. What does that mean? How do you swing fast? How can you learn this?
    2. Injuries. I've read in this thread that a lot of people using superspeed get injured and stop the workouts. Some seem to wait until they healed and restarted. How long did you wait to heal and did you get injured again?

    @Hondabuff @DLiver @Dinosaur @provx @stk123 @clevited

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  • David69David69 Members  291WRX Points: 61Handicap: 9Posts: 291 Greens
    Joined:  edited Jul 27, 2020 11:55pm #3309
    1. SWING FAST - simply means that you should be getting your speed through being limber, loose and feel minimal tension throughout the range of the swing. Some tension is obviously necessary or you would lose grip on the club and it would fly off - and of course there is core tension as you rotate - but overall - the big factors of speed are fast twitch muscles firing in your sequence with little actual flexing of your muscles - especially your arms and chest. You need to be loose. You need to be able to rip through your speed fast - but without muscle tension (as there is when swinging ia heavy object). You need to feel like your body is a whip and the club head is the whip cracking out in front past the ball - swing through it not at it.
    2. INJURIES - I am 50 and active and I pulled an intercostal doing my reverse side swings. Sidelined for about a month earlier this year - but I was lucky and I caught it right away and stopped instead of working through the pain (like I would do in my 20's). Likely this was my fault for not being warmed up enough and for really going after it - as I have built my lefty swings up to about 90% of my righty swings. I would suggest you start slow - and warm up with 20 mins of cardio, stretching or after a full workout (which is when I usually do my speed sticks - but didn't warm up when I got injured) and then do your speed training.

    I am sure others will crap all over my explanations but that is what my experience has been. I can swing my c speed stick over 130 and can gat my naked driver swings upwards of 125 - but top out playing actual golf around 105-110.

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  • provxprovx Members  880WRX Points: 116Posts: 880 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #3310
    1. this is not something I consciously think about. It is meant to mean don’t hold a death grip on the club and swing with pure strength instead of being an athlete, but in doing this training imo it should be an effort to push your energy systems and then have the patience to let your body recover. I personally am out of breath after 3 to 5 quick swings.
    2. i am not the type to get injured other than inflammation in my joints which i manage with diet, so I don’t have a recommendation on how long to heal up. Typically if you warm up and limit these swing sessions to 3 times a week and keep them 20 minutes max with plenty of rest between sets there shouldn’t be any higher risk than most other workouts.
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  • ToolishToolish Members  74WRX Points: 96Posts: 74 Bunkers
    Joined:  #3311

    3 sessions in and I am getting slower.


    Do you guys think any technical thoughts to swing faster at all, or is it literally just SWING FAST!


    I am not sure if I am over analyzing it but I just can't find speed yet.

    Posted:
  • stk123stk123 Members  457WRX Points: 102Posts: 457 Greens
    Joined:  #3312
    1. You need the swing speed radar to find out what is fast and what isn't. I don't follow the program at all, I just make up my own based on randomness of my schedule. I usually do it on days when I am feeling loose, strong, and rested so that I can get max speed. There is no reason to do the program when you are sore from working out all week as your speeds will be slow and you get no benefit. I do the speed training only when I am super warmed up. Usually at the range after hitting balls or after an intense workout session, but before muscles get cold and tired.
    2. I had some neck issues in the past, so I had to quit the program 1.5y ago. But the injuries I was getting was a minor pulled muscle here, stretched ligament there. I found that the injuries were getting more and more annoying. Each one takes several days to heal assuming you took care of it right away, ice, foam roll, massage, rest, ibuprofen, etc. But then over time you realize that you can't constantly take time off, so you play more golf, workout more, and you are constantly in minor, albeit annoying, pain. My solution is to do the program a lot less often.


    That said, I started swing speed training recently again about a month or two ago. The good news is that I almost regained all of my speed quickly that took me 6 months to gain last time (while working much hard last time). The bad news is that my swing speed went down a lot when I stopped doing the program. You really need to do maintenance 1x per week to keep the speed gains "permanent".

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  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members  1666WRX Points: 364Posts: 1,666 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #3313

    Didn't read other responses, but here is my take.

    1) Swinging fast means efficient and relaxed. The radar helps you see that trying to swing hard tenses you up and makes you slow down, swinging relaxed and efficient will show you higher speeds with regularity. I learned how to swing fast with the help of radar, it sort of naturally showed me what worked and what didn't for speed.

    2) The speed sticks can cause injury, more so than just wailing on a bunch of balls at the range with your driver imo. The reason being, your body is absorbing all of the recoil of the swing, no energy is transferred into the ball. This along with the red club being heavier than most are used to, can cause injury. Taking care to warm up can help a lot with this. As far as time for the injury to heal, I have had hand/wrist strains that usually feel 100% within a week but it is really hard to stay away from golf for that long.

    Hope that helps some.

    Posted:

    WITB
    Driver: Krank Formula X Extreme 6.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 60X, 44.5"
    3 Wood: Epic Subzero 15.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 70X, 42.5"
    5 Wood: Epic Subzero 17*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80X, 42"
    Utility: Ping G400 19*, Aldila RIP Alpha HYB 105X, 40"
    4-PW: Mizuno JPX 900 Tour, Aldila RIP Tour 115X, (7 iron 37")
    WEDGES: Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind: 50*, 54*, 60*, Aldila RIP Tour 115X, 35"
    PUTTER: Custom(my own design)/2016 Scotty Cameron Newport 2
    BALL: Snell MTBX/Nike RZN Platinum

  • leekgolfleekgolf Members  1231WRX Points: 75Handicap: 9Posts: 1,231 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Jul 29, 2020 12:38am #3314

    @David69 @provx@stk123@clevited


    Thank you for the well thought out replies.


    I am using a Swing Speed Radar to monitor progress. I seem to lack the discipline to try swinging different ways. I just keep trying to swing faster, which seems to revolve around how hard I press my lead leg into the ground on the downswing. I'm going to try a very loose swing with no attempt to speed up to see what numbers I get from the SSR. I'm also planning to use my FlightScope launch monitor to monitor clubhead speed when hitting balls from time to time.

    I have followed this thread from the beginning and am impressed by two things:

    Almost every poster sees an increase in how far they hit the ball.

    Almost every poster eventually seems to quit using these.

    It seems like the people who stick with this are mainly the ones who make their living hitting the ball, tour pros and LDA guys.

    I hadn't seen it in the thread so I want to share for anyone interested. Super Speed publishes a recommended warmup routine. I used it for my second session. I think it's pretty effective.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/7craddfp1pe1dow/Speed_Clinic_warm_up.pdf?dl=0

    I ask about injury because after just two sessions, I did something that was probably a bad idea. I was going to play Sunday with some friends and I took along the green club. When I was done hitting balls to warm up and get ready to play, I swung the blue stick three times at my full speed, thinking it would raise my clubhead speed for the round. I hurt my back. I played the round and hit several drives farther than I have in 3 or 4 years. It also hurt like **** to hit them :) It's been ibuprofen, my therapy roller and stretches since then. I skipped my planned Super Speed workout Monday and may skip it tomorrow.

    I'm going to commit to myself to do this for 6 months. I just hope I can be smart and stay injury free.

    Posted:
  • ToolishToolish Members  74WRX Points: 96Posts: 74 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Jul 30, 2020 1:39am #3315

    3 sessions in and no progress. Decided to film a swing and see if anything stood out.


    Apologies on the quality, but any ideas or thought on what may be costing me speed here?



    Posted:
  • Timefor9Timefor9 Members  8WRX Points: 21Posts: 8 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Jul 30, 2020 6:35pm #3316

    I'm not a swing coach, but here are my initial thoughts: (1) early extension, (2) it does not look like you are swinging all out, (3) use the ground more. I think improving (3) will also help with (1), and improving (1) and (3) will give you more speed.

    Re: (2), maximal aggression is key for the training. I don't know your swing, but it looks a good fairway finder swing.

    Posted:
  • David69David69 Members  291WRX Points: 61Handicap: 9Posts: 291 Greens
    Joined:  #3317

    How fast is your max?

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  • ToolishToolish Members  74WRX Points: 96Posts: 74 Bunkers
    Joined:  #3318


    I agree it doesn't look all out, but it feels like it is. Early extension is an issue with my swing and has been forever. I have heard the term use the ground so much, but I have never known how to actually do that!!


    Max with Green is about 130, I managed to get to 136 last night focusing on making sure to complete the shoulder turn and maintaining a large arc with the arm. Not sure if I will be able to repeat that next session, hopefully I can!

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  • David69David69 Members  291WRX Points: 61Handicap: 9Posts: 291 Greens
    Joined:  #3319

    So that is about where I am with speed - and you may just be maxed out or at a plateau. The best advice is to stick with the actual SS program for a few months and push yourself. You are going to have good days and slow days - think long term. Stretch, and stay loose.

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  • dhc1dhc1 NYCMembers  945WRX Points: 124Handicap: 7.3Posts: 945 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #3320

    Are you trying different things or just swinging your normal swing as fast as you can? For me, messing around with the timing of the release was huge in increasing speed (much faster when I try to have the club pass the hands by p6 - it really doesn't do that but it increases swing speed for me).

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  • Go_TimeGo_Time Members  2621WRX Points: 334Posts: 2,621 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #3321

    Can anyone share thoughts on what speeds with colored sticks generally equate to for actual club head speed? IE if I want to hit real life CHS fo 130, what do I need to work towards for the sticks?

    Posted:
  • ToolishToolish Members  74WRX Points: 96Posts: 74 Bunkers
    Joined:  #3322


    Just trying to swing hard and then playing with different feelings...haven't found a feeling that works for me yet I guess

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  • Timefor9Timefor9 Members  8WRX Points: 21Posts: 8 Bunkers
    Joined:  #3323

    130-136 with the green and that swing, with EE, is impressive! You clearly have untapped speed.

    The superspeed protocols have various drills that help with ground force generation and I would look at some of those (like heel stomp, double step, etc). Here is an article from a year or so ago that discusses how Phil learned to use the ground: https://boditrakperformance.com/how-phil-mickelson-gained-6-mph-by-optimizing-how-he-uses-the-ground/. Another one to check out is how Cameron Tringale gained a bunch of speed in one year (one article is here: https://www.pgatour.com/news/2019/09/24/need-for-speed-how-cameron-tringale-found-success-after-swinging-faster-driving-distance.html#:~:text=He%20also%20had%20the%20second,finishing%20106th%20in%20the%20standings.&text=Tringale's%20clubhead%20speed%20increased%208.6,%2D%2D%20from%202018%20to%202019.)

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  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members  1666WRX Points: 364Posts: 1,666 Platinum Tees
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    Swing like you are trying to destroy something. Don't think about the golf swing, just swing like you have to obliterate and shatter something where the golf ball would normally be. PRO TIP, make sure it isn't the SSR that you obliterate.

    Posted:

    WITB
    Driver: Krank Formula X Extreme 6.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 60X, 44.5"
    3 Wood: Epic Subzero 15.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 70X, 42.5"
    5 Wood: Epic Subzero 17*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80X, 42"
    Utility: Ping G400 19*, Aldila RIP Alpha HYB 105X, 40"
    4-PW: Mizuno JPX 900 Tour, Aldila RIP Tour 115X, (7 iron 37")
    WEDGES: Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind: 50*, 54*, 60*, Aldila RIP Tour 115X, 35"
    PUTTER: Custom(my own design)/2016 Scotty Cameron Newport 2
    BALL: Snell MTBX/Nike RZN Platinum

  • Trap JuniorTrap Junior Members  957WRX Points: 120Posts: 957 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #3325

    I got these 2nd hand on ebay so there was no instructions with it. Doing protocol 1 for the lat month. Gotten slower so far as I had already been doing different methods of speedwork for a few years prior to superspeed. I got superspeed to get off the plateau I was on but have actually regressed. I havent been able to use the gym since March so that may be a cause.

    Are you supposed to write down your speed with each of the sticks? I so far havent bothered but use the SSR and just try to get my next swing faster than the previous one. I record my driver speed hitting balls constantly though. So far I've seen a 5mph drop since June.

    Posted:
  • ToolishToolish Members  74WRX Points: 96Posts: 74 Bunkers
    Joined:  edited Aug 2, 2020 10:55pm #3326


    I feel like I am trying to destroy something...and the more I try that the slower I seem to get. Just get way out of sequence!


    I think it is years of bad habits (in regards to speed) that will take some time to reset. We have just had a 6 week covid restriction announced which will mean I can't get to the course. Perfect time to work on some speed!

    Posted:
  • SirFuegoSirFuego Members  307WRX Points: 165Posts: 307 Greens
    Joined:  edited Aug 2, 2020 11:35pm #3327

    Here is a table I made a little less than a year ago (press the down arrow at the bottom left of the quote to expand it):


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  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members  1666WRX Points: 364Posts: 1,666 Platinum Tees
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    Nice chart, I find it pretty agreeable. Do you happen to have a link to the webinar. I would like to watch it.

    Posted:

    WITB
    Driver: Krank Formula X Extreme 6.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 60X, 44.5"
    3 Wood: Epic Subzero 15.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 70X, 42.5"
    5 Wood: Epic Subzero 17*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80X, 42"
    Utility: Ping G400 19*, Aldila RIP Alpha HYB 105X, 40"
    4-PW: Mizuno JPX 900 Tour, Aldila RIP Tour 115X, (7 iron 37")
    WEDGES: Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind: 50*, 54*, 60*, Aldila RIP Tour 115X, 35"
    PUTTER: Custom(my own design)/2016 Scotty Cameron Newport 2
    BALL: Snell MTBX/Nike RZN Platinum

  • LeftDaddyLeftDaddy Members  982WRX Points: 315Handicap: 9Posts: 982 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #3329

    I just bought some of these from another WRXer on the BST. I’m excited to get started with them, but I watched the protocols last night and it made my back hurt just watching the videos. I’ve also had cervical spinal fusion recently (lost a little speed as a result so trying to get it back), and early indications are a delayed or failed fusion given some mild pain Im experiencing. I might have to wait to get started whether I like it or not.

    Anyway, my bigger observation is that the overspeed concept is incorporated in the Drive 400 program I started last year that definitely did help me with power (though I’ve lost it again both from lack of doing the exercises and from the surgery). That program combines mobility, strength, and overspeed training to improve speed, and it definitely worked. I tinkered with Rob’s protocol a bit to also help me work on some swing fault fixes too, so as not to ingrain bad habits. So I think I’ll tinker even more and substitute SSG protocol in for Rob’s overspeed stuff (they are very similar) and see how it goes.

    For me personally, I don’t feel like I have any “mental” barrier keeping me from swinging faster. I think the vast majority of any swing gains I will achieve will be from improved swing mechanics though Drive 400 definitely gave me a lot of pop last year. I can’t tell whether the mobility or strength or overspeed components are what worked for me from it, and maybe it doesn’t matter, but my plan is to do all 3 plus incorporate my new swing feels I’m trying to groove. I can’t seem to get off of my lazy ... to get started again, but I hope to do it today. I’m also fearful of getting injured, though I will say that Rob’s mobility stuff helped my lower back out tremendously last year, so I never ended up hurting my back from going at it too hard.

    The point of all of this being that you shouldn’t skip the warmup exercises/stretches, and you should also incorporate strength training and actually hitting balls into your workout. You’ll probably be happy you did.

    Posted:
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  • clevitedclevited Don't think you are, know you are. Members  1666WRX Points: 364Posts: 1,666 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #3330

    @SirFuego posted a good chart that I suspect is pretty close to accurate. If I understood correctly, the clubhead speed in that chart would be what a typical (not out of your shoes) swing would register on like a trackman or something. I used to post in here more and one of the things I discovered was that quite a few people could match their swing speed for their red club as measured by SSR with their driver (so if you swung the red club 130 by swinging as hard as possible, you should in theory be able to swing your driver 130 all out when measured by a trackman or flightscope). I think the extra weight of the red club but the better aerodynamics vs an actual driver ends up matching many peoples speeds with an off the shelf club.

    One thing I also discovered was that while people might have the physical ability to match driver speed to red club speed, they don't always have the mental ability. Once a ball is in front of them some saw their all out swing with an actual driver not even get close to the red club speed while others could match it. I suspect its both a subconscious mental thing (I got to hit a ball so I can't swing so hard), and a result of swing mechanics that wouldn't allow you to even hit the ball should you try and swing that hard (like swinging outward too much, or over the top too much etc).


    I hope that helps.

    Posted:

    WITB
    Driver: Krank Formula X Extreme 6.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 60X, 44.5"
    3 Wood: Epic Subzero 15.5*, Aldila RIP Alpha 70X, 42.5"
    5 Wood: Epic Subzero 17*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80X, 42"
    Utility: Ping G400 19*, Aldila RIP Alpha HYB 105X, 40"
    4-PW: Mizuno JPX 900 Tour, Aldila RIP Tour 115X, (7 iron 37")
    WEDGES: Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind: 50*, 54*, 60*, Aldila RIP Tour 115X, 35"
    PUTTER: Custom(my own design)/2016 Scotty Cameron Newport 2
    BALL: Snell MTBX/Nike RZN Platinum

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  • SirFuegoSirFuego Members  307WRX Points: 165Posts: 307 Greens
    Joined:  edited Aug 4, 2020 8:58pm #3331

    It's been a while, but I think it was part of Webinar 1: Overspeed Training 101. If it's not that, it's one of the other early webinars:

    https://superspeedgolf.com/blogs/news/tagged/webinars?page=2

    Posted:
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