Callaway GBB Epic and Epic Sub Zero: Drivers and Fairways

[Roadking_6]

8000 MOI?

 

It should be noted that figure is what they referred to as Total MOI, "a summation of both axes." From my notes from #TheWRX, Total MOI for other notable drivers:

• EPIC 8000
  
• EPIC Sub Zero (weight-back) 8500
  
• XR16 7400
  
• M2 7000
  
• GBB 6900
  
• M1 6300
  

I'd like to know how the G and G LS stack up.

And the LTD please

[Hawkeye77]

Front page articles on these drivers are good reads and, not that he needs validation, but Zak's writing and articles have really evolved over the years. Nice to see someone get better every year (NOT saying he was ever not good!) - content and quality of writing as good as anything out there on the web which is why I can't remember the last time I read anything from a "regular" golf publication. This site and some other sources so much better if you want some equipment insights.

 

My dilemma is I have voices I trust on this site with pretty positive TM and Callaway impressions. I'm so 4 years ago - 913D2 and a Wishon Kadin made for me, both excellent drivers and I've resisted any temptations to try the last two Titleist models (been hoing irons) and really like my "elderly" Titleist 3w and 4h. When my many faults make me think it's the driver's fault, I may switch once or twice during the summer.

 

Have a conference in Iowa City in March that led to a little hooky and iron fitting last year. May have to do some driver comparisons just for fun this year, gladly pay the cost of the driver fitting to see how some of the new ones compare to what I have. Something about that ugly green the OEMs like now and St. Patrick's Day may be serendipitous.

 

 

[Roadking_6]

Like reading the reviews of Pure and Zach, but both swing 115+, I appreciate their input, but for most on here to put their reviews as the end all, just like Shiels and Crossfield are out of their mind. I don't swing within 10 mph of them on average and don't hit up like Pure and didn't play college golf like Zach. Test any new product yourself against your gamer with the same balls in a controlled enviornment. Those complaining about shaft offerings, not all are listed yet probably and REAL DEAL shafts cost more period, and if some think that every 'after market' shaft given away with a stock purchase is the real deal...well...make sure you have a real deal shaft to compare that shaft to. Just saying....the reasons given based on two or three reviews as to not even try a club are a bit out there. But to each their own. I will be comparing all new drivers in a controlled enviornment before I make my decision, comparing against my current gamer.

I mean I appreciate all that people who take the time out to write a review of what works for them. But I know that just because Pure or Zach can or can't get certain results doesn't mean I or anyone else will. I read and watch the reviews and take the information with a grain of salt. I have owned both the M1 and M2 and they get such glowing reviews pretty much across the board and I hated them both. They weren't any better than the LTD or G for me. Only thing I liked less than TM was the Titleist. And I love the M2 fairway, but the drivers were kind of blah for me.

 

I will be doing a fitting with real balls, outside, on trackman in less than 3 weeks to see for myself if these drivers can knock my current gamer out of the bag. Will it? who knows but I want to find out for myself. I'll have access to whatever Mile's of Golf has and honestly cannot wait. I am a high swing speed player (115-119) but just because this player or that gets these results with driver A or driver B doesn't mean we all will, just because we have similar swing speeds means nothing. If I can get faster ballspeed and straighter ball flight on my good swings, I am in. If not I have no problem bagging the LTD for another season or 2.

[Keen]

Current gamer is Titleist 915D3, which I think I actually lost distance with compared to my previous driver (Vega, which I caved in). So I'll definitely try the Epics. I also, surprisingly, like the crowns, but could change when I see it live. Still, excited.

[vwgolfer]

ball go far but only by 24 inches.

[nwlim]

Not a fan of the color but looks great paired with the hrzdus!

[Lacey Underall]

The site isn't real specific but it looks like there are once again no 80 gram stock shaft options in the fairway. Argh! Callaway just refuses to do this. Why?

I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

What do you mean? Is the stock Rogue Max 80 grams in the fairway?

[Holy Moses]

ball go far but only by 24 inches.

 

Callaway's 5 year R&D program on a 107-110 MPH swing gives us 24 inches at $500.

 

Costco finds and old golf ball, sells it, brings 7-10 yards of distance and it saves golfers money.

 

Who is really Epic?

[kyle75]

It seems like a common theme for the 2017 models vs the 2016 models for Titleist, Taylormade, and now Callaway is basically the same distance but improved forgiveness in the new models.

[Holy Moses]

It seems like a common theme for the 2017 models vs the 2016 models for Titleist, Taylormade, and now Callaway is basically the same distance but improved forgiveness in the new models.

 

Welcome to Ping's strategy for the last 10 years

[zakkozuchowski]

Front page articles on these drivers are good reads and, not that he needs validation, but Zak's writing and articles have really evolved over the years. Nice to see someone get better every year (NOT saying he was ever not good!) - content and quality of writing as good as anything out there on the web which is why I can't remember the last time I read anything from a "regular" golf publication. This site and some other sources so much better if you want some equipment insights.

 

My dilemma is I have voices I trust on this site with pretty positive TM and Callaway impressions. I'm so 4 years ago - 913D2 and a Wishon Kadin made for me, both excellent drivers and I've resisted any temptations to try the last two Titleist models (been hoing irons) and really like my "elderly" Titleist 3w and 4h. When my many faults make me think it's the driver's fault, I may switch once or twice during the summer.

 

Have a conference in Iowa City in March that led to a little hooky and iron fitting last year. May have to do some driver comparisons just for fun this year, gladly pay the cost of the driver fitting to see how some of the new ones compare to what I have. Something about that ugly green the OEMs like now and St. Patrick's Day may be serendipitous.

 

Hawkeye77,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to say such nice things. I'm honored to get to write the pieces I do, and it is is very rewarding when people tell me they enjoy my work.

 

One of the things I believe makes the GolfWRX Editorial Team different from other golf news outlets is how much we take into consideration what our readers are saying about our stories, both on the Front Page and in the forums. We want so much to give GolfWRXers what they want, and in almost every weekly meeting we're talking about how to evolve our skills, styles and delivery systems in order to better serve the GolfWRX Community.

 

All that to say, keep commenting on Front Page stories. Keep posting in the forums. If you're what we call a "lurker" (someone who reads but doesn't post), start telling us how you think we're doing and what you want. It matters to me and it matters to the entire team.

 

Thank you!

[HipCheck]

The site isn't real specific but it looks like there are once again no 80 gram stock shaft options in the fairway. Argh! Callaway just refuses to do this. Why?

 

I might grab the driver but I'll pass on the fairway for this reason.

 

The FW is where I saw the most gains comparing it to a Fusion. The FW is a cannon. No COR limits so I think it's super-hot.

[ZBigStick]

It seems like a common theme for the 2017 models vs the 2016 models for Titleist, Taylormade, and now Callaway is basically the same distance but improved forgiveness in the new models.

 

Just the way the USGA likes it. Until they can find a way to limit MOI.

[Warrick]

The site isn't real specific but it looks like there are once again no 80 gram stock shaft options in the fairway. Argh! Callaway just refuses to do this. Why?

 

I might grab the driver but I'll pass on the fairway for this reason.

 

The FW is where I saw the most gains comparing it to a Fusion. The FW is a cannon. No COR limits so I think it's super-hot.

 

I am sure I missed this somewhere.....

 

Are you in the new driver? If so, which one, and what did you switch from?

 

Also, were you gaming the Fusion 3W?

 

Thanks.

[marlowe70]

Sub Zero Driver

 

[Nessism]

How many Epic threads are there now?

 

Too many.

 

In summary...

 

1) The JAILBRAKE technology boosts ball speed by a couple of mph. A significant accomplishment in the world of maxed out CT levels, but nothing earth shattering in real world terms.

 

2) Callaway has finally woken up and adapted a rear and low CG position. Much the same as Tmag has with their M2. Ping has promoted this approach from the start, and Cobra has had some rear CG designs as well. A rear and low CG increases MOI for forgiveness, without resulting in crazy high spin.

 

The question now is whether or not you care? There is nothing game changing here. It's simply an evolutionary step in the world of modern drivers. For my deep pocket friends looking for a new driver I'll certainly suggest a demo of these new Callaway's. I won't be switching to one anytime soon though.

 

It seems like a common theme for the 2017 models vs the 2016 models for Titleist, Taylormade, and now Callaway is basically the same distance but improved forgiveness in the new models.

 

Just the way the USGA likes it. Until they can find a way to limit MOI.

 

MOI is already limited by USGA rules.

 

What I'd like to know is what is the vertical axis MOI. The Ping G is in the 5200 range. This "combined MOI" number in the 8000 range is too confusing. What matters the most is the vertical MOI not combined.

[BreakingPar]

The site isn't real specific but it looks like there are once again no 80 gram stock shaft options in the fairway. Argh! Callaway just refuses to do this. Why?

 

I might grab the driver but I'll pass on the fairway for this reason.

 

The FW is where I saw the most gains comparing it to a Fusion. The FW is a cannon. No COR limits so I think it's super-hot.

 

Sorry, but someone has to say it: all golf clubs are restricted by COR.

[Jsp3316]

Can't wait to test these.

[BreakingPar]

How many Epic threads are there now?

 

Too many.

 

In summary...

 

1) The JAILBRAKE technology boosts ball speed by a couple of mph. A significant accomplishment in the world of maxed out CT levels, but nothing earth shattering in real world terms.

 

2) Callaway has finally woken up and adapted a rear and low CG position. Much the same as Tmag has with their M2. Ping has promoted this approach from the start, and Cobra has had some rear CG designs as well. A rear and low CG increases MOI for forgiveness, without resulting in crazy high spin.

 

The question now is whether or not you care? There is nothing game changing here. It's simply an evolutionary step in the world of modern drivers. For my deep pocket friends looking for a new driver I'll certainly suggest a demo of these new Callaway's. I won't be switching to one anytime soon though.

 

It seems like a common theme for the 2017 models vs the 2016 models for Titleist, Taylormade, and now Callaway is basically the same distance but improved forgiveness in the new models.

 

Just the way the USGA likes it. Until they can find a way to limit MOI.

 

MOI is already limited by USGA rules.

 

Yeah. MOI is capped at 6000 I believe. Which leads to the question: why not just stick with the format everyone has been for a while now? Leads one to believe that those imaginary numbers being spouted by some (8500) are being put forward to inflate the numbers on the new drivers.

[Nessism]

 

Yeah. MOI is capped at 6000 I believe. Which leads to the question: why not just stick with the format everyone has been for a while now? Leads one to believe that those imaginary numbers being spouted by some (8500) are being put forward to inflate the numbers on the new drivers.

 

Agree. It's vertical axis MOI that's capped.

[QMany]

Aug. 30, 2005, the USGA published a proposal to implement a test and limit for clubhead moment of inertia (MOI). The USGA Equipment Standards Committee received detailed written comments from manufacturers regarding both the proposed limit and the accompanying test procedure. After careful consideration of the comments received from equipment manufacturers, the USGA has approved the implementation of a clubhead moment of inertia test and a limit of 5900 gm·cm2. Additionally, a test tolerance of 100 gm·cm2 will be used.

 

http://www.usga.org/equipment-standards/notice-clubhead-inertia-test-and-limit.html

[Nessism]

Sorry, but someone has to say it: all golf clubs are restricted by COR.

 

There is no COR limit. Just a CT limit. And there is no definitive correlation between CT and COR

[Warrick]

Sub Zero Driver

 

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Uh-Oh....

 

As someone who needs a bit lower spin, I now must hit this ASAP. I am a bit concerned about the head size, but the results are tough to argue.

[tnord]

not too keen on the crown, all the markings toward the face are too much. i don't mind the green.

 

i actually like the shape of the regular epic better than the SZ. for whatever reason, the SZ head looks like the leading edge is further forward of the shaft to me...like negative offset.

 

we'll see what they look like in person. one of our pros on staff with callaway liked the regular epic better as when he tested and ordered one way back in like late november or something. i would think he'll get it soon.

 

i would really like to actually get fitted for a driver for once, but the catch is you have to spend an asinine amount of money on new gear to do it. i'm tempted to just buy 3 or 4 drivers off BST then bring them all to test on the flightscope, sell the losers, and call that good enough.

[BreakingPar]

Sorry, but someone has to say it: all golf clubs are restricted by COR.

 

There is no COR limit. Just a CT limit. And there is no definitive correlation between CT and COR

 

Thanks Ness. I stand corrected. Its CT at 257

[marlowe70]

More reviews...

 

 

[bama11]

Epic SZ driver and SZ 3 wood will be going in the bag right away; love the look and size of both. Looking forward to more info on the Pro Series irons and the new putters & Chrome Soft + golf balls for 2017 too!

[hurricanes7]

great reviews, thanks

[buchaneb]

Anybody know of a list of with all the shaft options and upcharge prices?

[hurricanes7]

when are we getting a review on the 3 wood