One length irons stunting development

[North Butte]

Is "bias" the correct term for my belief that it's a silly gimmick with no innate value?

[Hags11]

I’m on the opposite end, I’ve been playing with VL since I was 13. I’m not 36 and picked up my 1st set of SL. I haven’t played with them yet, but plan to get a few holes in this afternoon. I think you’ll be fine, just give it time with whatever changes you make.

[Mcgeeno]

I mean I have found it is almost immediately dismissed by most older golfers without even any consideration at all. They did not sell well at all at my home club.

 

Was it a magic pill for me? Absolutely not. I was willing to try it and find out for myself though.

 

I found that it simplified my practice, preshot set up and improved my consistency? In the end I always get repetitive in the SL conversations: It might not be for everyone, but people should be open minded and willing to try it. You never know.

 

As far as setting up and swinging differently? I swing a 7 iron from 80 yards to 205 yards. I essentially swing the same almost every time. That would be easier to work with for a coach? I know mine has said so as the club in my hand doesnt really matter when we work on positions and feels. I'm left handed and have had no problem finding SL clubs. Pinhawk, Edel, Cobra and a few other brands have made them for years now. They are available in box stores and Pro Shops if you look for them.

[joshrad_golf]

As a caddie at Bryson Dechambeau's club in Dallas, I've had the privelege to talk at some length with Bryson about the single-length irons. I agree with what a lot of people here are saying. I don't think playing single-length irons will stunt your growth as a golfer, especially since you are a newer golfer. You won't know much of a difference than standard irons, and I think single length irons could even be a great way to learn golf, without a need to switch to normal irons down the road. If you can build your foundation of golf around one golf swing with one length of iron, you probably have the chance to develop a more consistent swing because you won't need to learn to make adjustments in ball position for various clubs unless you are trying to work the ball. Good luck!

[North Butte]

Do you single-length guys do the Full Bryson? With the arms straight out in front of you, etc?

 

Or are you just swinging like a normal person except your long-irons are shorter than usual and your short-irons longer?

 

FWIW my comments in this thread assume you're using Bryson-like clubs so that you can use a Bryson-like swing. Huge oversized grips, weird lie angles, etc.

[NRJyzr]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Do you single-length guys do the Full Bryson? With the arms straight out in front of you, etc?

>

> Or are you just swinging like a normal person except your long-irons are shorter than usual and your short-irons longer?

>

> FWIW my comments in this thread assume you're using Bryson-like clubs so that you can use a Bryson-like swing. Huge oversized grips, weird lie angles, etc.

 

 

When I've taken a single length swing (friend has F7 One Lengths, I built some Pinhawks for myself), I do not do the Bryson thing. The jumbo grips and swing he's using are a different/distinct concept, separate from the Single Length irons themselves.

 

They work moderately well, but I'm not sure they're for me on a permanent basis. I did shoot some decent rounds with them, but also shot my highest score of 2018 with them. When I went back to Club Golden Ram in my next round, I shot 17 shots better. LOL

 

For my use, jury is still out. Intrigued by the idea, but not sure it's a great fit....

[North Butte]

Well if we're talking a more or less conventional swing with irons that are just a bit different length than usual, that's not going to help or "stunt" anyone to any great extent. It's akin to trying a set of ultralight clubs or MOI matching or any other kind of spec tweaking.

 

I took the discussion to be about the whole clubs and swing fundamentals package. Which I think would be a real reach for a beginner with a potential huge downside.

[Mcgeeno]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Do you single-length guys do the Full Bryson? With the arms straight out in front of you, etc?

>

> Or are you just swinging like a normal person except your long-irons are shorter than usual and your short-irons longer?

>

> FWIW my comments in this thread assume you're using Bryson-like clubs so that you can use a Bryson-like swing. Huge oversized grips, weird lie angles, etc.

 

I swing normally as I did with VL clubs.

 

I'm a standard length/lie guy luckily. I've been fitted a few times over the years.

 

 

[MountainGoat]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Do you single-length guys do the Full Bryson? With the arms straight out in front of you, etc?

>

> Or are you just swinging like a normal person except your long-irons are shorter than usual and your short-irons longer?

>

> FWIW my comments in this thread assume you're using Bryson-like clubs so that you can use a Bryson-like swing. Huge oversized grips, weird lie angles, etc.

 

I swing like a normal person.

[North Butte]

Personally, I swing like an average hacker. I aspire to swing like a normal person!

[Mych]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Do you single-length guys do the Full Bryson? With the arms straight out in front of you, etc?

>

> Or are you just swinging like a normal person except your long-irons are shorter than usual and your short-irons longer?

>

> FWIW my comments in this thread assume you're using Bryson-like clubs so that you can use a Bryson-like swing. Huge oversized grips, weird lie angles, etc.

 

I'm an engineer, so I like listening to Bryson analyze and try to apply physics to the golf swing. That said, I think the SL's have allowed me to develop a more "comfortable" (natural) setup position. I feel that my swing right now is much less mechanical, but that's completely subjective. I think that I'm more capable of self-diagnosing and connecting a result to a specific aspect of my swing because the variables are reduced. There is a trainining wheels aspect to it. If you have a good swing the concept won't have an impact, but on a bad day when it feels like it is falling apart, the result is a little less painful.

[starrman77]

Yes, they will also stunt your growth and ability to achieve an erection.

[North Butte]

> @starrman77 said:

> Yes, they will also stunt your growth and ability to achieve an erection.

 

If the SL clubs don't do it, watching Bridgestone ads on TV definitely will.

[Johnny_Fairway]

> @rbark11 said:

> This is probably a stupid question, but will playing with one length irons stunt my development as a golfer?

 

I used single length my first season of playing and got down to a 12 or 13 index. I had a similar question about whether single length would hinder my long-term improvement.

 

I therefore tried variable length irons my second year (last year) and finished unchanged at an index around 13. But to be fair, I was bouncing around sets (everything from Cleveland Launcher HBs to Hogant Ft Worths) to see what I like. So in additional to the variability of variable length, I never settled in with any particular iron set.

 

I'm back to single length for year three and currently at an 8 index. I play 18 to 27 holes per week, with no additional time for practice. I don't know whether I'd use them if I could play everyday, but single length seems to simplify the game for me. I don't see any long-term harm in using them if they seem to work for you. My biggest upside in using single length is confidence in believing I'll put a good move on the ball no matter which iron I have in my hand.

 

 

[Spumoni]

I have owned just about every Ping model irons for the last 15 years. Made the switch to Cobra SL irons 2 years ago. My handicap has gone down and I have shot in the 70's four times with the SL. For me they just help make things more simple. I do not think they will hurt your development. They are not a magic pill. You still need to put a good swing on them. Working on and improving your short game is going to give you the biggest benefit.

[OsnolaKinnard]

I got my edel sls01s in 2018...and am not changing back to VL irons.

 

I love the longer length of the 8-GW and my ball striking and consistency have improved. Prior to layoff due to work amd health, I went from posting scores in the mid 80s to high 70s..and I credit a big part of that to the SL irons and implementing a single plane swing.

 

[huckitchuckit]

Ive really been wanting to try this. I hate having to think about if im too close or too far from the ball and I think this would really help me. Correct me if I am wrong but do you stand the same distance away for each club?

[johnnythunders]

I’ve played Wishon Sterling, cobra f-7 and now cobra f-max single lengths but my set makeup has changed since my swing speed has diminished due to injury, fibromyalgia and age. Since I got them I liked the 7-gw. They are 37. This year I replaced the 7 with Mizuno jpx 919 fli-hi 7 at 37. Added the fli-hi 6 at 37. Also replaced the pw and gap wedge with Mizuno jpx919 forged I play them at 36. So my 6-9 are 37 and pw-sw are 36. Now I have a set of irons that are working really well. Good gaps and very accurate.

[DavePelz4]

> @Warrior42111 said:

> I would think from an engineering standpoint one length would benefit those new to golf quicker than a variable length set. The reason being that with a one length there are just fewer variables such as ball position and distance from ball of your stance since the low point of all the iron should be the same.

 

About a year ago I was as disappointed in my play as I've been in the last 20 years. Went from a low of 8.3 to a 14+ and it was time to take stock of reality. Working more and practicing/playing less just wasn't conducive to seeing any improved scores. Decided to simplify my game and made the move to the SL irons for exactly the reason Warrior outlined...less variables. The swing now is more repeatable and there is light at the end of the tunnel. Don't get me wrong, there have been some peaks and some deep valleys but having less time to practice, this has worked...so far.

[GIGTony]

With one exception, everyone I have custom fit with single length irons loves them. They hit straighter shots. One friend who is 79 years old shot 70 with his ( I did not fit him).

[eyeeye]

> @Mych said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > Do you single-length guys do the Full Bryson? With the arms straight out in front of you, etc?

> >

> > Or are you just swinging like a normal person except your long-irons are shorter than usual and your short-irons longer?

> >

> > FWIW my comments in this thread assume you're using Bryson-like clubs so that you can use a Bryson-like swing. Huge oversized grips, weird lie angles, etc.

>

> I'm an engineer, so I like listening to Bryson analyze and try to apply physics to the golf swing. That said, I think the SL's have allowed me to develop a more "comfortable" (natural) setup position. I feel that my swing right now is much less mechanical, but that's completely subjective. I think that I'm more capable of self-diagnosing and connecting a result to a specific aspect of my swing because the variables are reduced. There is a trainining wheels aspect to it. If you have a good swing the concept won't have an impact, but on a bad day when it feels like it is falling apart, the result is a little less painful.

 

I think the one most important thing that doesn't get pointed out, is Bryson's set is different from the SL irons you could purchase.

As everyone can tell, his setup is very unique (the reason everyone hates his swing) with his arms appearing to be straight in line with golf club's shaft. Well, his clubs are 10 degrees upright. He probably had it bent that much so he doesn't ever have to worry about shallowing the club to the shaft plane, by morphing the shaft plane so it's in a straight line with his shoulders.

His irons are set at 72 degrees in lie angle, where as the Edel's SL standard lie is 62, and the Cobra ones are variable from 61.5 to 63.5. That's about 10 degrees upright in the head, and these manufacturers will only let you bend 2 degrees max (because bending more will mess up all the other angles, as well as a possible breakage). Maybe if more people are willing to buy them at 72 degrees, somebody may make a mold for a blank that's that upright, or weld the hosel on like Miura. Who knows.

But until then, these sets will never be anything similar to Bryson's, and becuase of that, in my humble opinion, going back and forth in SL and VL should not be a "you can't turn back"-esque hard task.

[North Butte]

> @eyeeye said:

> > @Mych said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > Do you single-length guys do the Full Bryson? With the arms straight out in front of you, etc?

> > >

> > > Or are you just swinging like a normal person except your long-irons are shorter than usual and your short-irons longer?

> > >

> > > FWIW my comments in this thread assume you're using Bryson-like clubs so that you can use a Bryson-like swing. Huge oversized grips, weird lie angles, etc.

> >

> > I'm an engineer, so I like listening to Bryson analyze and try to apply physics to the golf swing. That said, I think the SL's have allowed me to develop a more "comfortable" (natural) setup position. I feel that my swing right now is much less mechanical, but that's completely subjective. I think that I'm more capable of self-diagnosing and connecting a result to a specific aspect of my swing because the variables are reduced. There is a trainining wheels aspect to it. If you have a good swing the concept won't have an impact, but on a bad day when it feels like it is falling apart, the result is a little less painful.

>

> I think the one most important thing that doesn't get pointed out, is Bryson's set is different from the SL irons you could purchase.

> As everyone can tell, his setup is very unique (the reason everyone hates his swing) with his arms appearing to be straight in line with golf club's shaft. Well, his clubs are 10 degrees upright. He probably had it bent that much so he doesn't ever have to worry about shallowing the club to the shaft plane, by morphing the shaft plane so it's in a straight line with his shoulders.

> His irons are set at 72 degrees in lie angle, where as the Edel's SL standard lie is 62, and the Cobra ones are variable from 61.5 to 63.5. That's about 10 degrees upright in the head, and these manufacturers will only let you bend 2 degrees max (because bending more will mess up all the other angles, as well as a possible breakage). Maybe if more people are willing to buy them at 72 degrees, somebody may make a mold for a blank that's that upright, or weld the hosel on like Miura. Who knows.

> But until then, these sets will never be anything similar to Bryson's, and becuase of that, in my humble opinion, going back and forth in SL and VL should not be a "you can't turn back"-esque hard task.

 

Until this thread I thought the massively upright clubs, all one length, with the fat grips and the Moe Norman like swing was what people were talking about when buying "Single Length Clubs". I had no idea they were just basically a standard set all cut to one length. Not like Bryson at all, then.

[NoTalentLefty]

I gave the SL a shot for a while and not seeing any marketed accuracy or improvement. Did not like it in the wedges both PW and GW couldn't get the distance dialed in. Back to the VL AP1s 718. Must admit I only gave it the first part of the golf year, about 4 months last year. Whether that was fair is up to the committee. Not sure I'd recommend the F8 or F9 cobras maybe a better upgrade?

[games]

If the game of golf were invented today, and golf manufacturers would start over, would we still have variable length irons?

Or, would we have lengths XS, S, M, L, XL, and XXL with flexes of Y, A, R, S, X, and T?

[mogc60]

> @eyeeye said:

> > @Mych said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > Do you single-length guys do the Full Bryson? With the arms straight out in front of you, etc?

> > >

> > > Or are you just swinging like a normal person except your long-irons are shorter than usual and your short-irons longer?

> > >

> > > FWIW my comments in this thread assume you're using Bryson-like clubs so that you can use a Bryson-like swing. Huge oversized grips, weird lie angles, etc.

> >

> > I'm an engineer, so I like listening to Bryson analyze and try to apply physics to the golf swing. That said, I think the SL's have allowed me to develop a more "comfortable" (natural) setup position. I feel that my swing right now is much less mechanical, but that's completely subjective. I think that I'm more capable of self-diagnosing and connecting a result to a specific aspect of my swing because the variables are reduced. There is a trainining wheels aspect to it. If you have a good swing the concept won't have an impact, but on a bad day when it feels like it is falling apart, the result is a little less painful.

>

> I think the one most important thing that doesn't get pointed out, is Bryson's set is different from the SL irons you could purchase.

> As everyone can tell, his setup is very unique (the reason everyone hates his swing) with his arms appearing to be straight in line with golf club's shaft. Well, his clubs are 10 degrees upright. He probably had it bent that much so he doesn't ever have to worry about shallowing the club to the shaft plane, by morphing the shaft plane so it's in a straight line with his shoulders.

> His irons are set at 72 degrees in lie angle, where as the Edel's SL standard lie is 62, and the Cobra ones are variable from 61.5 to 63.5. That's about 10 degrees upright in the head, and these manufacturers will only let you bend 2 degrees max (because bending more will mess up all the other angles, as well as a possible breakage). Maybe if more people are willing to buy them at 72 degrees, somebody may make a mold for a blank that's that upright, or weld the hosel on like Miura. Who knows.

> But until then, these sets will never be anything similar to Bryson's, and becuase of that, in my humble opinion, going back and forth in SL and VL should not be a "you can't turn back"-esque hard task.

 

So his clubs are fit for him? Weird what a concept. Single length and natural golf(moe) are two different concepts that Bryson morphed together. Not for the masses. These companies are marketing single length irons not Brysons technique. In all honesty very few people on this planet would ever put in the time and effort required to master his technique but the single length concept is very effective for a lot of people and is simple. I don’t think 5’9” guys with standard golf principles need 10 degree upright clubs. Those were made for one man and might only benefit a handful of people in the world with a ton of work on their part.

[eyeeye]

> @mogc60 said:

> > @eyeeye said:

> > > @Mych said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > Do you single-length guys do the Full Bryson? With the arms straight out in front of you, etc?

> > > >

> > > > Or are you just swinging like a normal person except your long-irons are shorter than usual and your short-irons longer?

> > > >

> > > > FWIW my comments in this thread assume you're using Bryson-like clubs so that you can use a Bryson-like swing. Huge oversized grips, weird lie angles, etc.

> > >

> > > I'm an engineer, so I like listening to Bryson analyze and try to apply physics to the golf swing. That said, I think the SL's have allowed me to develop a more "comfortable" (natural) setup position. I feel that my swing right now is much less mechanical, but that's completely subjective. I think that I'm more capable of self-diagnosing and connecting a result to a specific aspect of my swing because the variables are reduced. There is a trainining wheels aspect to it. If you have a good swing the concept won't have an impact, but on a bad day when it feels like it is falling apart, the result is a little less painful.

> >

> > I think the one most important thing that doesn't get pointed out, is Bryson's set is different from the SL irons you could purchase.

> > As everyone can tell, his setup is very unique (the reason everyone hates his swing) with his arms appearing to be straight in line with golf club's shaft. Well, his clubs are 10 degrees upright. He probably had it bent that much so he doesn't ever have to worry about shallowing the club to the shaft plane, by morphing the shaft plane so it's in a straight line with his shoulders.

> > His irons are set at 72 degrees in lie angle, where as the Edel's SL standard lie is 62, and the Cobra ones are variable from 61.5 to 63.5. That's about 10 degrees upright in the head, and these manufacturers will only let you bend 2 degrees max (because bending more will mess up all the other angles, as well as a possible breakage). Maybe if more people are willing to buy them at 72 degrees, somebody may make a mold for a blank that's that upright, or weld the hosel on like Miura. Who knows.

> > But until then, these sets will never be anything similar to Bryson's, and becuase of that, in my humble opinion, going back and forth in SL and VL should not be a "you can't turn back"-esque hard task.

>

> So his clubs are fit for him? Weird what a concept. Single length and natural golf(moe) are two different concepts that Bryson morphed together. Not for the masses. These companies are marketing single length irons not Brysons technique. In all honesty very few people on this planet would ever put in the time and effort required to master his technique but the single length concept is very effective for a lot of people and is simple. I don’t think 5’9” guys with standard golf principles need 10 degree upright clubs. Those were made for one man and might only benefit a handful of people in the world with a ton of work on their part.

 

I don't understand your anger there.

I'm simply saying his irons are **10 degrees** upright from any irons you can find off the shelf. And that not many people know about it, but thinks it's the same one Bryson uses.

Did I say anything negative about his set being "FIT"?

[North Butte]

So I guess I'm not the only one who thought the whole mini-boom in "Single Length" interest was from people wanting to be Just Like Bryson. Or at least being pitched to with that message.

 

The man himself issues a continuous stream of pseudo-scientific babble. I guess a savvy marketeer could pick any number of his quirks and obsessions to capitalize on. The Single Length thing is perhaps first in a long line, if he keeps having success.

[Tugu]

I'm yet to see anyone hit the same flight/distance with their one length long iron as they do with regular lengthed long iron. Unless the said person is a very bad long iron player with regular clubs or has above average swing speed, with a matching swing pattern.

Does this count as arrested development?

[DavePelz4]

> @"North Butte" said:

> So I guess I'm not the only one who thought the whole mini-boom in "Single Length" interest was from people wanting to be Just Like Bryson. Or at least being pitched to with that message.

>

> The man himself issues a continuous stream of pseudo-scientific babble. I guess a savvy marketeer could pick any number of his quirks and obsessions to capitalize on. The Single Length thing is perhaps first in a long line, if he keeps having success.

 

Can you imagine if he was playing a KSig?

[DavePelz4]

> @Tugu said:

> I'm yet to see anyone hit the same flight/distance with their one length long iron as they do with regular lengthed long iron. Unless the said person is a very bad long iron player with regular clubs or has above average swing speed, with a matching swing pattern.

> Does this count as arrested development?

 

Let me know when you're in Chicago.