That "next guy" to challenge Tiger and the other all-time greats is coming

[naval2006]

On the original post, I don’t know if theres any overlapping at all. In 1960 Ben Hogan was the shadow of the legend because of his terrible putting and his health after the accident. And there are miracles of the game like Ben Hogan or Severiano. But Nicklaus and Tiger together with Bobby Jones belong to a completely different league. You’ll never know when the next Tiger shows up. That type of players are really scarce in any sport. The list of next whatchamacallit is endless, though.

[Darth Putter]

I still believe in Matteo Manassero!!!

[Lark]

If you are discussing the GOATs, there is no way you can leave out Hogan.

[naval2006]

I personally believe Hogan ran into Byron Nelson and he couldn’t become the man of his times. And Nelson ended up being a part-time pro.

I tend to count majors. Gary Player also won 9 majors and a Grand Slam in the most improbable career in golf. The wee guy played all his life in the land of giants. And no one would place him in a discussion of the GOATs, I’m afraid.

I place Hogan and Player in the second echelon. This is me, though.

[JD3]

Retief Goosen compares DeChambeau to Tigerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R_IIQkNcbs

[MUNIGRIT]

Nobody because the field is too deep now.

[freowho]

I agree on Nelson. I think the Goat debate is Bobby Jones, Byron Nelson, Mickey wright and young Tiger Woods. Maybe Annika Sorenstam. Nicklaus, Snead and Player had longevity but I don't think they dominated fields like the first 4. Hogan is somewhere in between dominance and longevity. I also don't understand the obsession with Hogan's swing. It's a great story of hard work and persistence but he just kept shortening and flattening it to get rid of a hook.

[Kevinnz]

Well didnt tiger have that "killer"'s look on his face early on (even pre 2008)?

Cannot see that face in any of the youngsters. They all look so nice and sound so gentle, for the media/sponsors. Social media wasnt around in the 90s so tiger was on the course just to win, not for a show. And the older generations dont seem to rant so much. The tour was like job for the pros. Image how much critism tiger attracts if he just starts out now.

Remember tiger was brought up playing creativel, like the old timers. Even he bombed the ball like no others but he could still shape the ball whatever way he saw fit. The current generations were brought up hitting their numbers, the right spin and distance. There is lack of creativity, because they dont get into troubles.

 

 

[bscinstnct]

 

Well, when you can hit it farther, kill approach shots , and wedge, and putt better than everyone. And you know it and they know it.

 

That killer look and acceptance is born in reality for both predator and prey ; )

 

 

[Dave230]

More of the opinion these days that there will never be the equivalent of Tiger Woods in golf for 100 years. There could be a Tom Watson type player or even a Ben Hogan but never someone who 1) transcended golf as Tiger did, becoming the biggest sportsperson in the world 2) be as good as Tiger from 99-02.

Even if a current player matched his major wins they could never compare to Tiger’s cultural impact.

[Lark]

If you are discussing the GOATs, there is no way you can leave out Hogan. To look at his accomplishments post-WWII it is indisputable that he is at the highest echelon.

[Lark]

You don't think Nicklaus or Hogan dominated??

[Mych]

I'm not quite old enough to have watched Snead, Nicklaus, Palmer, etc, but for all of the current focus on technological advancements making course designs obsolete over time, I think one part that has been missed is that technology has also closed the gap between the mediocre pros and the top pros. The further you go back, there were bigger the margins of error in the equipment, meaning an extremely sound ballstriker or a very skilled short game player had a chance to dominate. Tiger was both of those, in addition to having a distance advantage over most people.

With the forgiveness and equipment tuning that is possible now, there is nobody that is 8-10 shots better than the field on a regular basis. At Tiger's prime, he was contending even when he played poorly. When he played well everyone else was just playing for a top 10 finish.

I think it would have to be someone similar to DeChambeau or Bubba Watson who finds a different way to attack courses. Using analytics, there may be scoring strategies that haven't been optimized yet. I think the whole tour is waiting for DeChambeau to "figure it out", and they know that they're in trouble if he does. He's close this year, but I think he still has to address his short game weaknesses. Beyond that, I think the next Tiger will be someone very similar to Tiger who trains very hard early (doing unknown damage to their body), peaks early, and flames out with health issues.

The wildcard would be someone like Koepka, someone who takes a more targeted approach at building up to majors and preserving their body/mind throughout their career. I could see someone like that challenging the records for winning majors, but not overall wins. Almost too grueling to do both.

[JD3]

I think you're right about a lot of pros concerned Bryson figures it out, because many of them like a ricky Fowler cannot do the same. It will become much more skewed to physical limits, like basketball, where you have to be tall to play it. No matter how much Ricky tries to put on his frame he'll never achieve the size and strength dechambeau has already

[Pent08]

Greatness the likes of Tiger, Jack, Federer, Phelps, Jordan, Lebron, Brady etc. won't trade performance for money. The type of person who would make this consideration, by definition, would never be an all time-great.

[bscinstnct]

 

I disagree. We see how humbled BD was this week by merely growing the grass a little.

 

BDs driving average will come back to the same band as the rest of the big hitters as he gets burned trying to hit it 330+.

 

JB Holmes, Bubba, Rory, DJ, they can all get it out there farther than the 310-320 they average. But they dial it back to score.

 

Same thing for Bryson.

 

Put it this way. Was it their driving distance that has been holding Rory and DJ back from winning majors?

 

Of course not.

 

Look at Tony Finau, crazy long, pretty great ball striker all around. Yet, never won an event much less a major.

 

And one last thing, if you really look at what makes a champion, it’s not just the strength of their game. Take Rory and DJ again. In addition to shortcomings in short game, they don’t have that same mental toughness that Jack and TW had.

 

Jury is out on BD on this. But mentally, that total mental breakdown yesterday seems to indicate he has a ways to go in that department.

 

 

[Darth Putter]

Tony's got one.

[bscinstnct]

 

Forgive me Tony!

[DLev45]

There are so many examples of rough length being the antidote to the distance debate, The Memorial being the most recent in a long line of them.

I don't know why its still even a big debate. Put a bigger premium on hitting the fairway, and the distance issue takes care of itself. If they want to take their chances hitting it 350+, let them have at it.

[chippa13]

The great think about sports is that sooner or later there will always come along another competitor to enter the greatest of all time debate.

For years people said nobody will touch Gordie Howe's goal total. Then they said nobody will ever touch Gretzky's goal total. Well, looks like pretty soon they'll be saying nobody will touch Ovechkin's goal total.

The same is true in golf. Look at all of the names presented who were the greats of their time. At those moments people said there will be another like {fill in name here} but sooner or later there always is.

[Lark]

I don’t see Ovechkin surpassing Gretzky in career goals. He is still almost 200 behind. And no one would consider him to be better than Gretzky.

[bscinstnct]

 

It could take a while to find out ; )

[chippa13]

He is still only 34 years old. If he plays 6 more season he only has to average 34 a year to pass Gretzky. Many already consider Ovechkin to be the best pure goal scorer to play the game.

[woodriff]

I rather thought it might be Cantley. Perhaps he’s still got time.

[ProStryker]

I honestly don’t think there will ever be another player in golf to come along that was as dominant as Tiger. There are too many guys out there that are too good. The field is so deep. Kids are coming out of college that can win on any given day. Complete dominance seems to be over with. There will be great players, but no one like Tiger was. The deep field won’t allow it anymore. Just my opinion of course, lol.

[bscinstnct]

 

Adam Scott and Justin Rose are ranked right now about where they were back in 2008. Rose was #1 recently at almost 40.

 

I mean, Tiger himself won the Masters and got to #5 just last summer as a 43 year old, back fused, shadow of his peak dominance.

 

He went out there after like 2 years of barely being able to walk much less play golf, DWI on drugs, ranked # 1199 in the world .

And in about a year he beats Rory, BK, BD, Rahmbo, JT and all the other uber golfers with no green jacket at Augusta and then gets to #5.

 

And you don’t think TW 1.0 would be out there beatin these guys like a dirty rug?

 

Just sayin ; )

[OrangeGravy]

It's the antidote for us fans, but try making them play through that rough 3 weeks in a row and watch the Twitter storm ensue.

[OrangeGravy]

There thing he mentions about kids coming out of college recently and winning lower level events. I didn't follow tour golf as a kid close enough to know if that happened regularly on tour over the decades? The Curtis Strange quote, "He'll Learn" ( I believe it was him), leads me to believe that the tour was always a "you have to pay your dues" type of situation before you could compete/win until Tiger came along and slapped the old guys down quickly. It does seem that more and more college kids are coming out on tour and proving to be a cut above the typical journeyman tour pro right away. That is however, a long way from making it impossible for someone of Tiger's abilities to dominate.

[cdnglf]

 

He has a chance, but it is a tall order. He’ll turn 35 before he plays another regular season game.

I don’t think the goals record was ever considered untouchable. Bobby Hull likely would have done it, had he not gone to the WHA. Bossy was on track (573 at 30), but got injured and retired.

Overall, Ovechkin is about as much a threat to Gretzky’s GOAT status as I am.

 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

 

No question the younger players are better prepared than ever. It’s a few factors including the web/cf tour and elimination of q school.

 

I think the same thing may have happened in women’s tennis years ago with lots of younger and younger players and thinking no one could dominate then Serena came along and beat the crap out of everyone.

 

All you have to do is look at Adam Scott (not ever a dominant player even in his prime) and JRose owgr rankings to really gauge how good these guys are.

 

And Tiger is the final arbiter when, after 2 years off and falling to #1199 in the world, he quickly rises to #5 and wins the Masters at 43 with a fused back ; )

 

Imagine what he’d do to them in his prime?