All Things Michigan Golf....the Mulligan (MOD EDIT: NO POLITICS, NO COVID-19, NO ECONOMICS)

[O.D.underpar]

[quote name='Sweet' timestamp='1413683437' post='10312293']
[quote name='3 Jack Par' timestamp='1413608847' post='10308649']
[quote name='knickerbocker' timestamp='1413503378' post='10302089']I am just not good enough to have a different setup and swing with my driver. I have been working the last few weeks on getting a more stack and tilt move back into my swing because it helps me be more engaged with my legs and body compared to just arms. I tend to default to being an arm swinger and when I lose the leg action, my ball striking goes south fast. But with that stack and tilt move, I really hit down on the ball even more. But I am hitting fairways and hitting it long enough, so no complaints!
[/quote]

Ok, philosophy time. I have heard a lot over the years about it being hard to be good at both driving the ball and being a good iron player, because they're two different swings. I don't think that's true. The swing is the swing, and the only difference is the low point of your swing. Sure, the driver is a little different, because the ball isn't on the ground, but it's really all about where the ball is in relation to the low point of the swing, which is why you play the driver toward your front foot, and the irons further back.

This is based mainly on my own personal experience, and my own swing flaws, but a steeper AoA may allow you to hit shots that feel solid, but it's also going to create launch characteristics that will rob you of distance. When you hit the ball on a steeper downward angle, you're going to get more spin, and it's going to go shorter than it could under normal conditions, and balloon in the wind. I personally cut about 500 RPM off my irons by reducing my AoA by a couple of degrees (to around -3-4 degrees on irons, and +1-2 with the driver), and that equals 5-10 extra yards with the irons (and more margin for error, IMO), and 10-15 with the driver. All of it, very controllable, and without a lot of adjustments that require a lot of work. And the two swings are basically the same, aside from ball position.

I guess the point of this rambling nonsense is that a lot of people have more potential to hit it far than they think. I'm a fat piece of s*** with a decent swing, and I can get it out there a good ways, and while there's physical limitations that prevent us from being animals like ThunderB, we don't have to accept that we're as long as we're going to get, and there are fairly simple things we can adjust to get the most out of our swings. From what I've seen, if you can swing a few degrees in to out, with a face slightly closed to that path, with positive AoA, with the driver, you'll maximize your driving distance. Same path and face with the irons with a -3 to -4.5 AoA, and you'll do well.

Sorry for the rambling post--just a few ideas I have about the swing.
[/quote]

[color=#282828]"From what I've seen, if you can swing a few degrees in to out, with a face slightly closed to that path, [b]with positive AoA, with the drive[/b]r, you'll maximize your driving distance. Same path and face with the irons[b] with a -3 to -4.5 AoA[/b], and you'll do well."[/color]

[color=#282828]so didn't you just describe 2 different swings?[/color]
[/quote]
It was 1 am. I blame the Black Russians.

[3_Jack_Par]

[quote name='Sweet' timestamp='1413683437' post='10312293']
[quote name='3 Jack Par' timestamp='1413608847' post='10308649']
[quote name='knickerbocker' timestamp='1413503378' post='10302089']I am just not good enough to have a different setup and swing with my driver. I have been working the last few weeks on getting a more stack and tilt move back into my swing because it helps me be more engaged with my legs and body compared to just arms. I tend to default to being an arm swinger and when I lose the leg action, my ball striking goes south fast. But with that stack and tilt move, I really hit down on the ball even more. But I am hitting fairways and hitting it long enough, so no complaints!
[/quote]

Ok, philosophy time. I have heard a lot over the years about it being hard to be good at both driving the ball and being a good iron player, because they're two different swings. I don't think that's true. The swing is the swing, and the only difference is the low point of your swing. Sure, the driver is a little different, because the ball isn't on the ground, but it's really all about where the ball is in relation to the low point of the swing, which is why you play the driver toward your front foot, and the irons further back.

This is based mainly on my own personal experience, and my own swing flaws, but a steeper AoA may allow you to hit shots that feel solid, but it's also going to create launch characteristics that will rob you of distance. When you hit the ball on a steeper downward angle, you're going to get more spin, and it's going to go shorter than it could under normal conditions, and balloon in the wind. I personally cut about 500 RPM off my irons by reducing my AoA by a couple of degrees (to around -3-4 degrees on irons, and +1-2 with the driver), and that equals 5-10 extra yards with the irons (and more margin for error, IMO), and 10-15 with the driver. All of it, very controllable, and without a lot of adjustments that require a lot of work. And the two swings are basically the same, aside from ball position.

I guess the point of this rambling nonsense is that a lot of people have more potential to hit it far than they think. I'm a fat piece of s*** with a decent swing, and I can get it out there a good ways, and while there's physical limitations that prevent us from being animals like ThunderB, we don't have to accept that we're as long as we're going to get, and there are fairly simple things we can adjust to get the most out of our swings. From what I've seen, if you can swing a few degrees in to out, with a face slightly closed to that path, with positive AoA, with the driver, you'll maximize your driving distance. Same path and face with the irons with a -3 to -4.5 AoA, and you'll do well.

Sorry for the rambling post--just a few ideas I have about the swing.
[/quote]

[color=#282828]"From what I've seen, if you can swing a few degrees in to out, with a face slightly closed to that path, [b]with positive AoA, with the drive[/b]r, you'll maximize your driving distance. Same path and face with the irons[b] with a -3 to -4.5 AoA[/b], and you'll do well."[/color]

[color=#282828]so didn't you just describe 2 different swings?[/color]
[/quote]
That's the thing, I don't think they're really Teo different swings. You achieve the different AoA by the difference in ball position. You play your irons around the middle of your stance, and your swing bottoms out a few inches in front of the ball, so you're contacting the ball on a slightly descending angle. With the driver, you play it off the left heel, and with no other changes other than the club not hitting the turf, you create a positive attack angle.

[swizbeatz]

[quote name='Sweet' timestamp='1413683437' post='10312293']
[quote name='3 Jack Par' timestamp='1413608847' post='10308649']
[quote name='knickerbocker' timestamp='1413503378' post='10302089']I am just not good enough to have a different setup and swing with my driver. I have been working the last few weeks on getting a more stack and tilt move back into my swing because it helps me be more engaged with my legs and body compared to just arms. I tend to default to being an arm swinger and when I lose the leg action, my ball striking goes south fast. But with that stack and tilt move, I really hit down on the ball even more. But I am hitting fairways and hitting it long enough, so no complaints!
[/quote]

Ok, philosophy time. I have heard a lot over the years about it being hard to be good at both driving the ball and being a good iron player, because they're two different swings. I don't think that's true. The swing is the swing, and the only difference is the low point of your swing. Sure, the driver is a little different, because the ball isn't on the ground, but it's really all about where the ball is in relation to the low point of the swing, which is why you play the driver toward your front foot, and the irons further back.

This is based mainly on my own personal experience, and my own swing flaws, but a steeper AoA may allow you to hit shots that feel solid, but it's also going to create launch characteristics that will rob you of distance. When you hit the ball on a steeper downward angle, you're going to get more spin, and it's going to go shorter than it could under normal conditions, and balloon in the wind. I personally cut about 500 RPM off my irons by reducing my AoA by a couple of degrees (to around -3-4 degrees on irons, and +1-2 with the driver), and that equals 5-10 extra yards with the irons (and more margin for error, IMO), and 10-15 with the driver. All of it, very controllable, and without a lot of adjustments that require a lot of work. And the two swings are basically the same, aside from ball position.

I guess the point of this rambling nonsense is that a lot of people have more potential to hit it far than they think. I'm a fat piece of s*** with a decent swing, and I can get it out there a good ways, and while there's physical limitations that prevent us from being animals like ThunderB, we don't have to accept that we're as long as we're going to get, and there are fairly simple things we can adjust to get the most out of our swings. From what I've seen, if you can swing a few degrees in to out, with a face slightly closed to that path, with positive AoA, with the driver, you'll maximize your driving distance. Same path and face with the irons with a -3 to -4.5 AoA, and you'll do well.

Sorry for the rambling post--just a few ideas I have about the swing.
[/quote]

[color=#282828]"From what I've seen, if you can swing a few degrees in to out, with a face slightly closed to that path, [b]with positive AoA, with the drive[/b]r, you'll maximize your driving distance. Same path and face with the irons[b] with a -3 to -4.5 AoA[/b], and you'll do well."[/color]

[color=#282828]so didn't you just describe 2 different swings?[/color]
[/quote]

Same swing, bottoms out different due to ball position and slightly less shoulder tilt. That's how it feels to me at least, although Ive actually been sweeping the irons on course lately now that I think about it.

I rarely shoot under par but I'm -9 in my last 5 rounds, 4 of those in tourneys or f around $ games. This is the first time I think bag changes have actually improved my game so that's exciting. Still room for improvement though, fairway wood and hybrid are on the hot seat. Thanks to you guys for keeping the golf season interesting, I used to get bored with nobody to talk to about the game.

[FSCMatt]

[quote name='swizbeatz' timestamp='1413713519' post='10313459'][quote name='Sweet' timestamp='1413683437' post='10312293']
[quote name='3 Jack Par' timestamp='1413608847' post='10308649']
[quote name='knickerbocker' timestamp='1413503378' post='10302089']I am just not good enough to have a different setup and swing with my driver. I have been working the last few weeks on getting a more stack and tilt move back into my swing because it helps me be more engaged with my legs and body compared to just arms. I tend to default to being an arm swinger and when I lose the leg action, my ball striking goes south fast. But with that stack and tilt move, I really hit down on the ball even more. But I am hitting fairways and hitting it long enough, so no complaints!
[/quote]

Ok, philosophy time. I have heard a lot over the years about it being hard to be good at both driving the ball and being a good iron player, because they're two different swings. I don't think that's true. The swing is the swing, and the only difference is the low point of your swing. Sure, the driver is a little different, because the ball isn't on the ground, but it's really all about where the ball is in relation to the low point of the swing, which is why you play the driver toward your front foot, and the irons further back.

This is based mainly on my own personal experience, and my own swing flaws, but a steeper AoA may allow you to hit shots that feel solid, but it's also going to create launch characteristics that will rob you of distance. When you hit the ball on a steeper downward angle, you're going to get more spin, and it's going to go shorter than it could under normal conditions, and balloon in the wind. I personally cut about 500 RPM off my irons by reducing my AoA by a couple of degrees (to around -3-4 degrees on irons, and +1-2 with the driver), and that equals 5-10 extra yards with the irons (and more margin for error, IMO), and 10-15 with the driver. All of it, very controllable, and without a lot of adjustments that require a lot of work. And the two swings are basically the same, aside from ball position.

I guess the point of this rambling nonsense is that a lot of people have more potential to hit it far than they think. I'm a fat piece of s*** with a decent swing, and I can get it out there a good ways, and while there's physical limitations that prevent us from being animals like ThunderB, we don't have to accept that we're as long as we're going to get, and there are fairly simple things we can adjust to get the most out of our swings. From what I've seen, if you can swing a few degrees in to out, with a face slightly closed to that path, with positive AoA, with the driver, you'll maximize your driving distance. Same path and face with the irons with a -3 to -4.5 AoA, and you'll do well.

Sorry for the rambling post--just a few ideas I have about the swing.
[/quote]

[color=#282828]"From what I've seen, if you can swing a few degrees in to out, with a face slightly closed to that path, [b]with positive AoA, with the drive[/b]r, you'll maximize your driving distance. Same path and face with the irons[b] with a -3 to -4.5 AoA[/b], and you'll do well."[/color]

[color=#282828]so didn't you just describe 2 different swings?[/color]
[/quote]

Same swing, bottoms out different due to ball position and slightly less shoulder tilt. That's how it feels to me at least, although Ive actually been sweeping the irons on course lately now that I think about it.

I rarely shoot under par but I'm -9 in my last 5 rounds, 4 of those in tourneys or f around $ games. This is the first time I think bag changes have actually improved my game so that's exciting. Still room for improvement though, fairway wood and hybrid are on the hot seat. Thanks to you guys for keeping the golf season interesting, I used to get bored with nobody to talk to about the game.[/quote]

Holy crap! What would you say has helped you drop shots recently? Did your short game take off or something else?

[swizbeatz]

^^^ the scores recently are from hitting wedge from 80-100 to tap in distance a few times a round. Over the course of the whole year it's been hitting driver in play and in the fairway and not missing greens from <150, I'll often %100 GIR from 150 and in. Lot of that is club changes like I mentioned, the G25 is idiot proof, my irons are flying higher/farther/and crazy consistent lengths, the guys at scratch got me in some really good wedges, and the arm lock is IMO an awesome putting method. All purchased from Wrx reviews!

[FSCMatt]

Awesome! I had a pretty decent stretch earlier this summer, but nothing like that.

That makes a lot of sense that it's the wedge and short iron game. It's tough to not miss any irons from inside 150 yards. Congrats on the awesome stretch, hopefully it continues through this year!

[mbowker64]

Anyone here plan on playing in the Chili Open at Hawk Hollow this year?

[Openwater22]

Watching MNF, Suzy Kolber still does it for me.

[O.D.underpar]

[quote name='Openwater22' timestamp='1413855498' post='10322937']
Watching MNF, Suzy Kolber still does it for me.
[/quote]

Are you Joe Namath?

[Openwater22]

[quote name='O.D.underpar' timestamp='1413866312' post='10324015']
[quote name='Openwater22' timestamp='1413855498' post='10322937']
Watching MNF, Suzy Kolber still does it for me.
[/quote]

Are you Joe Namath?
[/quote]

What? You don't like women?

[swizbeatz]

Joe Namath vid

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ1gD2YZMNU


Thanks for the kind words Matt!


Not playing at hawk hollow but I'm down for a SE MI chili open if we can get a team together, anyone?

[O.D.underpar]

[quote name='Openwater22' timestamp='1413891637' post='10324581']
[quote name='O.D.underpar' timestamp='1413866312' post='10324015']
[quote name='Openwater22' timestamp='1413855498' post='10322937']
Watching MNF, Suzy Kolber still does it for me.
[/quote]

Are you Joe Namath?
[/quote]

What? You don't like women?
[/quote]

Maybe that is too old of a reference. Google Suzy Kolber Joe Namath. He keeps telling he "I want to kiss you" in the middle of the sideline interview.

[Openwater22]

[quote name='O.D.underpar' timestamp='1413893716' post='10324685']
[quote name='Openwater22' timestamp='1413891637' post='10324581']
[quote name='O.D.underpar' timestamp='1413866312' post='10324015']
[quote name='Openwater22' timestamp='1413855498' post='10322937']
Watching MNF, Suzy Kolber still does it for me.
[/quote]

Are you Joe Namath?
[/quote]

What? You don't like women?
[/quote]

Maybe that is too old of a reference. Google Suzy Kolber Joe Namath. He keeps telling he "I want to kiss you" in the middle of the sideline interview.
[/quote]
Not too old of a reference, I was watching it live, I'm ancient remember. Doesn't change my opinion of SK's hotness factor. Hell, I'd want to do more than kiss her, I'd hit that.

[MaxPower328]

ESPN bringing in a bunch of young new anchors, but veterans like Suzy Kolber and Linda Cohn still bringing that HEAT

[golfortennis]

Amazing what a high likelihood of a 41-14 result (41-3 if Gardner has *no* time) can do to the banter. This is where someone would explain how PMS is known as madcow disease in East Lansing.

[golfortennis]

[quote name='Openwater22' timestamp='1413899931' post='10325121']
[quote name='O.D.underpar' timestamp='1413893716' post='10324685']
[quote name='Openwater22' timestamp='1413891637' post='10324581']
[quote name='O.D.underpar' timestamp='1413866312' post='10324015']
[quote name='Openwater22' timestamp='1413855498' post='10322937']
Watching MNF, Suzy Kolber still does it for me.
[/quote]

Are you Joe Namath?
[/quote]

What? You don't like women?
[/quote]

Maybe that is too old of a reference. Google Suzy Kolber Joe Namath. He keeps telling he "I want to kiss you" in the middle of the sideline interview.
[/quote]
Not too old of a reference, I was watching it live, I'm ancient remember. Doesn't change my opinion of SK's hotness factor. Hell, I'd want to do more than kiss her, I'd hit that.
[/quote]

I don't know if she tries to manipulate her voice, but it almost sounds like she is trying too hard. Not as bad as Jeremy Schaap, but ..... I would agree, she would not be reporting from the sidelines ...

[Go_Blue!]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1413905822' post='10325853']
Amazing what a high likelihood of a 41-14 result (41-3 if Gardner has *no* time) can do to the banter. This is where someone would explain how PMS is known as madcow disease in East Lansing.
[/quote]

Lol. It has become such a bad product. With the forecast of 65 and sunny this Saturday, we are bypassing the game and playing 27 holes at Twin Lakes. Until massive changes are made, it is hard to get excited for what used to be a Saturday tradition.

Can't wait to take advantage of a spectacular fall day in Michigan come Saturday.

[chickenpotpie]

^^^just wait until basketball season!!!

Oh, and Hannah Storm FTW.

[Fellaheen51]

[quote name='Go_Blue!' timestamp='1414004016' post='10333937']
........we are bypassing the game and playing 27 holes at Twin Lakes. Until massive changes are made, it is hard to get excited for what used to be a Saturday tradition. Can't wait to take advantage of a spectacular fall day in Michigan come Saturday.
[/quote]

Fo Reelz?

[attachment=2470419:image.jpg]

[MaxPower328]

Sitting here waiting for my 915s is probably the biggest tease of all time. Knowing we have 4 or 5 days straight of decent fall golf weather and no new toys to hit makes me mad. Damn Titleist and their release schedule.

[odshot68]

[quote name='MaxPower328' timestamp='1414069457' post='10337715']
Sitting here waiting for my 915s is probably the biggest tease of all time. Knowing we have 4 or 5 days straight of decent fall golf weather and no new toys to hit makes me mad. Damn Titleist and their release schedule.
[/quote]

Its still going to be another 3 weeks and by that time ..well, golf season may be over. I sold my woods and hybrids so I only have irons to play with right now.

[Go_Blue!]

[quote name='Fellaheen51' timestamp='1414063354' post='10337425']
[quote name='Go_Blue!' timestamp='1414004016' post='10333937']
........we are bypassing the game and playing 27 holes at Twin Lakes. Until massive changes are made, it is hard to get excited for what used to be a Saturday tradition. Can't wait to take advantage of a spectacular fall day in Michigan come Saturday.
[/quote]

Fo Reelz?

[attachment=2470419:image.jpg]
[/quote]

Haha...ya. I was at the game last year and have decided I am done with road games for the foreseeable future. There is no draw for me to watch Sat. I will tape it and enjoy the day with my good friends and brother on the course. Will come out of the bubble to watch the carnage after.

GO BLUE!

[Go_Blue!]

[quote name='chickenpotpie' timestamp='1414008507' post='10334377']
^^^just wait until basketball season!!!

Oh, and Hannah Storm FTW.
[/quote]

In Beilein We Trust. Why can't he just coach football, too? (Only half joking)

[odshot68]

I can't remember State was favored by 17 points entering their game against Michigan...

[Go_Blue!]

[quote name='odshot68' timestamp='1414073791' post='10338095']
I can't remember State was favored by 17 points entering their game against Michigan...
[/quote]

Im not a big sports gambler, but I would bet Sparty big here.

[odshot68]

[quote name='Go_Blue!' timestamp='1414074248' post='10338149']
[quote name='odshot68' timestamp='1414073791' post='10338095']
I can't remember State was favored by 17 points entering their game against Michigan...
[/quote]

Im not a big sports gambler, but I would bet Sparty big here.
[/quote]

I would definitely take the over, it could be a 17 point lead by half.

[Fellaheen51]

Stop it, right now. What are you trying to do......put the "voodoo" hex on? A lot of points to cover in a rivalry game.

Oh......i forgot, we're not your rivals. "It's just another game" - Frank Clark (8/14).
.
.
.
"It'll never be over....." - MD

[Go_Blue!]

[quote name='Fellaheen51' timestamp='1414075055' post='10338223']
Stop it, right now. What are you trying to do......put the "voodoo" hex on? A lot of points to cover in a rivalry game.

Oh......i forgot, we're not your rivals. "It's just another game" - Frank Clark (8/14).
.
.
.
"It'll never be over....." - MD
[/quote]

There is no way you can be at least remotely worried about this game. It isn't a matter "if" you will win, it is by how much.

[Fellaheen51]

As a Spartan....I'm always worried. It's part of our DNA.

[Go_Blue!]

[quote name='Fellaheen51' timestamp='1414077944' post='10338499']
As a Spartan....I'm always worried. It's part of our DNA.
[/quote]

Lol. I think these last 5 years have bucked that trend.