It just me or are a lot of pros switching to Nippon Iron Shafts?

[VA_Astra]

So what's the deal with how the flex plays on the 120? I know they FEEL smooth/softer than flex so to speak. How is the S flex compared to say a S300 DG or 5.5 PX, both shafts i've played before.

 

The 120 feels much smoother than the 5.5 and s300 for me. Much softer in the butt with a very stiff tip section. I went from a 5.5 to a 120x and have better ball flight and dispersion and the shaft will stay with you no matter how hard you go after the ball.

 

I tried the 105x in a 18* and didnt like the profile of the shaft at all.

 

The S should be fine though right? Considering I always play a "stiff flex" such as 5.5 or S300? I just don't want these to be too weak

 

Try them out, see if you like 105x or even 125 130 shafts...Totally different profiles, get fit or hit these for yourself.

[Golf4lifer]

So what's the deal with how the flex plays on the 120? I know they FEEL smooth/softer than flex so to speak. How is the S flex compared to say a S300 DG or 5.5 PX, both shafts i've played before.

 

The 120 feels much smoother than the 5.5 and s300 for me. Much softer in the butt with a very stiff tip section. I went from a 5.5 to a 120x and have better ball flight and dispersion and the shaft will stay with you no matter how hard you go after the ball.

 

I tried the 105x in a 18* and didnt like the profile of the shaft at all.

 

The S should be fine though right? Considering I always play a "stiff flex" such as 5.5 or S300? I just don't want these to be too weak

 

I currently play the 105x hardstepped once. Feel is subjective, but these feel a tad bit stiffer then the x100's I played before. I did not like the feel of the 120x, felt soft to me so that's why I chose the 105x hs once. This stiff shaft should be fine, but I would try them first.

[drvrwdge]

think im going to through the modus3 125 wedge shaft in an old 58 I have and see how that goes.

[yellolab]

Looking for some advise here please:

 

Current clubs have KBS Tour, SSx1, which I feel fit me well as far a swingspeed, tempo etc go.

 

Based on this thread, I want to try the Nippons- the new clubs I am going to order have the 120, 130 or 950 as options. I know the 130's are not for me, so that leaves the 120 or 950's- the 120's are a $25/upcharge, the 950 are no charge.

 

My thinking is the 120's are similar to my current KBS Tours as far as ballflight and stiffness correct? So I could go 120S SSx1 with no issues?

What about the 950's? Can I expect higher ballflight? and what about the flex: I can't find any info regarding this???

 

Thanks very much.

[PapaJohick]

Mark or any one else who has experience.

 

Playing s300 currently in some blades. ball flight is what I like to see (could be slightly higher but then it's just spliting hairs), but the feel could be better. Never been a big fan of DG feel for the most part. What would the 105x straight in do?

 

would it lower my flight dramatically or would it roughly be the same since the weight is lower and would have a bit more spin?

[MJisGOAT]

Looking for some advise here please:

 

Current clubs have KBS Tour, SSx1, which I feel fit me well as far a swingspeed, tempo etc go.

 

Based on this thread, I want to try the Nippons- the new clubs I am going to order have the 120, 130 or 950 as options. I know the 130's are not for me, so that leaves the 120 or 950's- the 120's are a $25/upcharge, the 950 are no charge.

 

My thinking is the 120's are similar to my current KBS Tours as far as ballflight and stiffness correct? So I could go 120S SSx1 with no issues?

What about the 950's? Can I expect higher ballflight? and what about the flex: I can't find any info regarding this???

 

Thanks very much.

Mark or any one else who has experience.

 

Playing s300 currently in some blades. ball flight is what I like to see (could be slightly higher but then it's just spliting hairs), but the feel could be better. Never been a big fan of DG feel for the most part. What would the 105x straight in do?

 

would it lower my flight dramatically or would it roughly be the same since the weight is lower and would have a bit more spin?

Simple answer is 125's for both. I started playing the game with s300 and have since played kbs tour, spb, s300 and finally settling on the 125's ssx1 for feel preference. I had a recent stint with some aerotech AMI 99, but after a few weeks of that venture I didn't really see any advantage that graphite offered over steel. Everything is a market for something, but the modus is a legit shaft for the discerning shaftoid. There's really nothing left to be desired in the modus lineup unless you're extremely peculiar about what you think you may or may not feel.

[otw]

Looking for some advise here please:

 

Current clubs have KBS Tour, SSx1, which I feel fit me well as far a swingspeed, tempo etc go.

 

Based on this thread, I want to try the Nippons- the new clubs I am going to order have the 120, 130 or 950 as options. I know the 130's are not for me, so that leaves the 120 or 950's- the 120's are a $25/upcharge, the 950 are no charge.

 

My thinking is the 120's are similar to my current KBS Tours as far as ballflight and stiffness correct? So I could go 120S SSx1 with no issues?

What about the 950's? Can I expect higher ballflight? and what about the flex: I can't find any info regarding this???

 

Thanks very much.

I used the KBS tour since the first year offered. Switched to modus 120 using the same flex S to S in Mizuno MP 69. For my swing the Modus had a similar flight but much better performance into the wind. There also seems to be no shaft play at impact.

[markheardjr]

Well I finally finished shafting up the demo 6 irons and took them to the range yesterday. I wasn't about to mail them out without hitting all of them first. They all spec'd out to std. length and D2-D3 swingweights. I decided to keep std. length and not go longer.

 

Results, for sure I'm playing the correct shaft in the 125X. 125S had a touch more spin than I wanted and climbed up and left a bit. Tour120 was what I remembered, kind of flatter trajectory, lower but a bit spinny. Tour120TX!? Wow, that was a shocker. Knocked off more spin than 120X for sure and the flatter trajectory, the ball just hung up there. All of them were about the same distance. The 125X has a nice mid-high soft flight with a controlled mini-draw to straight. 120TX once in a while I could feel myself hyper-extended my elbow so the weighting and timing of the kick was off. Definitely felt softer than 125X and kick was earlier feeling to me. Gonna try to get these suckers out today. Need 1 more iron length box, gonna go beg Golfsmith for a junk box at lunch! haha.

[sethdavidsdad]

think im going to through the modus3 125 wedge shaft in an old 58 I have and see how that goes.

Let me know how it goes. Been thinking about changing my wedge shafts.

[swizbeatz]

Well I finally finished shafting up the demo 6 irons and took them to the range yesterday. I wasn't about to mail them out without hitting all of them first. They all spec'd out to std. length and D2-D3 swingweights. I decided to keep std. length and not go longer.

 

Results, for sure I'm playing the correct shaft in the 125X. 125S had a touch more spin than I wanted and climbed up and left a bit. Tour120 was what I remembered, kind of flatter trajectory, lower but a bit spinny. Tour120TX!? Wow, that was a shocker. Knocked off more spin than 120X for sure and the flatter trajectory, the ball just hung up there. All of them were about the same distance. The 125X has a nice mid-high soft flight with a controlled mini-draw to straight. 120TX once in a while I could feel myself hyper-extended my elbow so the weighting and timing of the kick was off. Definitely felt softer than 125X and kick was earlier feeling to me. Gonna try to get these suckers out today. Need 1 more iron length box, gonna go beg Golfsmith for a junk box at lunch! haha.

 

 

Going to be putting together a 105 by any chance?

[markheardjr]

Well I finally finished shafting up the demo 6 irons and took them to the range yesterday. I wasn't about to mail them out without hitting all of them first. They all spec'd out to std. length and D2-D3 swingweights. I decided to keep std. length and not go longer.

 

Results, for sure I'm playing the correct shaft in the 125X. 125S had a touch more spin than I wanted and climbed up and left a bit. Tour120 was what I remembered, kind of flatter trajectory, lower but a bit spinny. Tour120TX!? Wow, that was a shocker. Knocked off more spin than 120X for sure and the flatter trajectory, the ball just hung up there. All of them were about the same distance. The 125X has a nice mid-high soft flight with a controlled mini-draw to straight. 120TX once in a while I could feel myself hyper-extended my elbow so the weighting and timing of the kick was off. Definitely felt softer than 125X and kick was earlier feeling to me. Gonna try to get these suckers out today. Need 1 more iron length box, gonna go beg Golfsmith for a junk box at lunch! haha.

 

 

Going to be putting together a 105 by any chance?

Need to ask Nippon for 105S/X and 130S/X. Need some 6i heads if anyone out there can hook em up with some 1-2 year old demo heads. Prefer decent shape and players cavity if possible.

[bluerrpilot]

If I'm going from s300 to 105s can I expect less spin and lower flight ?

[Golfrnut]

If I'm going from s300 to 105s can I expect less spin and lower flight ?

 

 

The 105 is softer in every aspect when compared to the S300. That being said, the weight is also drastically different and can effect each person differently.

[Golf4lifer]

If I'm going from s300 to 105s can I expect less spin and lower flight ?

 

 

The 105 is softer in every aspect when compared to the S300. That being said, the weight is also drastically different and can effect each person differently.

 

I just went from the x100s to the 105x hardstepped once and they do not feel soft to me. They actually feel a bit stiffer than the x100's which is something I wanted. Smooth but firm is how I would describe them.

[Golfrnut]

If I'm going from s300 to 105s can I expect less spin and lower flight ?

The 105 is softer in every aspect when compared to the S300. That being said, the weight is also drastically different and can effect each person differently.

I just went from the x100s to the 105x hardstepped once and they do not feel soft to me. They actually feel a bit stiffer than the x100's which is something I wanted. Smooth but firm is how I would describe them.

 

 

Couldn't necessarily tell you on the X vs X, that was just off the bend profile comparison of the S300 vs 105S. I know some of their profiles are not linear in progression through the flexes going off the bend profile data.

 

But there again, feel is always going to be subjective.

[HidekiWoods]

Decided to put 105x in my 4-7 and 125x in 8-PW.

 

Anyone try this before? Thoughts?

[markheardjr]

Decided to put 105x in my 4-7 and 125x in 8-PW.

 

Anyone try this before? Thoughts?

Nope. But interested to hear how that works out. Especially on shots in between a 7 and a 8.

[markheardjr]

If I'm going from s300 to 105s can I expect less spin and lower flight ?

The 105 is softer in every aspect when compared to the S300. That being said, the weight is also drastically different and can effect each person differently.

I just went from the x100s to the 105x hardstepped once and they do not feel soft to me. They actually feel a bit stiffer than the x100's which is something I wanted. Smooth but firm is how I would describe them.

 

 

Couldn't necessarily tell you on the X vs X, that was just off the bend profile comparison of the S300 vs 105S. I know some of their profiles are not linear in progression through the flexes going off the bend profile data.

 

But there again, feel is always going to be subjective.

Look, your wishon charts are pretty. They have colors. oohhh. But until the day comes where you can translate that chart into feel they are meaningless. I prefer EI profiles which I feel depict a much better story of the shaft. EI profiles most manufacturers use do not line up with a Wishon chart. Wishon is strictly CPM at length. That is only one part of the story.

 

I firmly believe if you would try to decipher the difference in CPM change between clamp length measurements and solicit feedback on feel from different testers you may be able to actually chart how a shaft will feel to different swing types. Normalize the CPM's by their position in length so you can smooth out a profile and then find out how that will relate to feel for the golfer. Then measure a golfers swing, kind of like a Mizuno shaft optimizer and find out where they load/release, path, AoA etc and actually create a nice little database for yourself to fine tune a shaft suggestion far better than we have now. But it's just not there yet. Mizuno only fits to standard shafts they sell which is a limited offering.

 

Just throwing up a chart with numbers in a grid and lines doesn't discern for me if I like 5 more or 10 less cpm's at 22" vs this or that shaft. Tour105 may have lower CPM's at every measurement length. But is it weighted to have a higher balance point? Lower? What is the delta between butt to middle and middle to tip cpm's? How about the same delta's for DG? How is that weighted? How does that translate to feel?

 

I mean, ideally, in the end all be all world the 100% solution would be to custom make a set of shafts for every individual golfer. Dial in exactly the weight, weight distribution and profile or CPM step progression for an individual golfer. Punch in the desired shaft parameters and out pops what they require. Could you imagine that capability? Start with a few base models and tweak according to feel. I would start with a Tour125 X, slightly firm up the midsection, a few CPM's more there. Maybe take away 3g from the butt section and 4g from the tip section. End up with a 117g stiff butt, firm middle, stiff tip with what I would consider slightly lower CPMs overall to a DG X100. The shaft would be balanced to what I prefer feel wise and if I desired weight progressed heavier to lighter for short to long iron. Spined, flo'd, weighted, CPM progressed, MOI matched, etc all from the start. Now that would be awesome. But we aren't there yet. Although I bet DG, Nippon, KBS have the capability if they currently rapid prototype. I wonder what the cost would be have a fitter and engineer there and pound out a custom order?

[Golfrnut]

If I'm going from s300 to 105s can I expect less spin and lower flight ?

The 105 is softer in every aspect when compared to the S300. That being said, the weight is also drastically different and can effect each person differently.

I just went from the x100s to the 105x hardstepped once and they do not feel soft to me. They actually feel a bit stiffer than the x100's which is something I wanted. Smooth but firm is how I would describe them.

 

 

Couldn't necessarily tell you on the X vs X, that was just off the bend profile comparison of the S300 vs 105S. I know some of their profiles are not linear in progression through the flexes going off the bend profile data.

 

But there again, feel is always going to be subjective.

Look, your wishon charts are pretty. They have colors. oohhh. But until the day comes where you can translate that chart into feel they are meaningless. I prefer EI profiles which I feel depict a much better story of the shaft. EI profiles most manufacturers use do not line up with a Wishon chart. Wishon is strictly CPM at length. That is only one part of the story.

 

I firmly believe if you would try to decipher the difference in CPM change between clamp length measurements and solicit feedback on feel from different testers you may be able to actually chart how a shaft will feel to different swing types. Normalize the CPM's by their position in length so you can smooth out a profile and then find out how that will relate to feel for the golfer. Then measure a golfers swing, kind of like a Mizuno shaft optimizer and find out where they load/release, path, AoA etc and actually create a nice little database for yourself to fine tune a shaft suggestion far better than we have now. But it's just not there yet. Mizuno only fits to standard shafts they sell which is a limited offering.

 

Just throwing up a chart with numbers in a grid and lines doesn't discern for me if I like 5 more or 10 less cpm's at 22" vs this or that shaft. Tour105 may have lower CPM's at every measurement length. But is it weighted to have a higher balance point? Lower? What is the delta between butt to middle and middle to tip cpm's? How about the same delta's for DG? How is that weighted? How does that translate to feel?

 

I mean, ideally, in the end all be all world the 100% solution would be to custom make a set of shafts for every individual golfer. Dial in exactly the weight, weight distribution and profile or CPM step progression for an individual golfer. Punch in the desired shaft parameters and out pops what they require. Could you imagine that capability? Start with a few base models and tweak according to feel. I would start with a Tour125 X, slightly firm up the midsection, a few CPM's more there. Maybe take away 3g from the butt section and 4g from the tip section. End up with a 117g stiff butt, firm middle, stiff tip with what I would consider slightly lower CPMs overall to a DG X100. The shaft would be balanced to what I prefer feel wise and if I desired weight progressed heavier to lighter for short to long iron. Spined, flo'd, weighted, CPM progressed, MOI matched, etc all from the start. Now that would be awesome. But we aren't there yet. Although I bet DG, Nippon, KBS have the capability if they currently rapid prototype. I wonder what the cost would be have a fitter and engineer there and pound out a custom order?

 

 

The EI profiles and CPM charts basically say the same thing. They are not CPM at length, although that data is available in the software and I can give you that too if you like. They are zone profiled, just like the EI charts are. Do you really actually understand how Tom does his measurements vs how they are created on a strain gauge using deflection? I don't think you quite understand how each is done. I have also looked and compared them to the EI profiles available. If you know how to read them, correctly, you will find they say the same thing. I will invite you to post which shafts you think disagree in terms of what the EI charts show and what Tom's profile show? By all means, which ones do you think differ?

 

In all actuality, IMO, Tom's profile is more detailed because it is able to put a numerical value on it for shaft comparison. Ryden and the other folks like MD and Nippon could be doing this when they post the EI diagrams on their website, but for whatever reason, choose not to. They measure deflection as opposed to CPM, and of course the deflection has a numerical value. They choose to chart plot with no values.

 

I will ask what the balance point really has to do in all of this? And if you are really concerned, Tom's profile has this data available too BTW, just an FYI. It also has the total shaft weight as well. So you get that from the EI charts? Just because we don't normally post the info, doesn't mean it isn't in there.

 

Do I think the EI charts are good? Yes, to an extent. But if you know how to read Tom's charts, you will find out they are actually more detailed than the EI charts you have available to you. I think you are being a little quick to judge on something you don't completely understand. JMO.

[markheardjr]

Original blah blah blah

 

 

blah blah blah

I know how to read them. And I understand the measurements with respect to deflection. They just don't' do it for me. I don't see the profile there. To me that doesn't look like stiff butt, soft mid, stiff tip. Those are the words that matter. Graphite Design showed me charts on stiffness of shaft sections in relation to a 10pt scale. Fujikura for years had the EI profile on the shaft so you could see the profile, the weight was provided and then a flex given. Very easy to fit someone with those shafts.

 

Shaft fitting is like music in your car. You can change the bass, mid and treble. (butt, mid and tip) to suit your preference. Are you playing Death Metal? aka late release. Or are you listening to Classical? Maybe early release. Then you need to worry about the decibel level (aka Flex, or CPM.) Then you need to worry about the balance (Speakers L/R or F/B, for shafts its balance point.) Same thing. Tweaking all of the to get it right.

 

Again, you have numbers I have feel. You like blue, I like green. Oh well. But if you're just coming into this thread to stir the pot, post Wishon and Recoil propoganda I say please just leave. All you do is confuse people more. We're debating feel here. That is subjective Or possible performance trends compared to other shafts. An overall sort of comparison from many viewpoints. If I use words to try to help someone decide between models I don't need some jack wagon coming in here saying "Well, really 105S is softer in every aspect than S300." You didn't even in the slightest way answer the OP when he asked about launch and spin. You have numbers. Go try the shaft. Play it. See for youself. Read the 100 other people that have commented on the results of their testing. Look beyond the numbers. Read between the lines. Live man, live!!

[Golfrnut]

Original blah blah blah

blah blah blah

I know how to read them. And I understand the measurements with respect to deflection. They just don't' do it for me. I don't see the profile there. To me that doesn't look like stiff butt, soft mid, stiff tip. Those are the words that matter. Graphite Design showed me charts on stiffness of shaft sections in relation to a 10pt scale. Fujikura for years had the EI profile on the shaft so you could see the profile, the weight was provided and then a flex given. Very easy to fit someone with those shafts. Shaft fitting is like music in your car. You can change the bass, mid and treble. (butt, mid and tip) to suit your preference. Are you playing Death Metal? aka late release. Or are you listening to Classical? Maybe early release. Then you need to worry about the decibel level (aka Flex, or CPM.) Then you need to worry about the balance (Speakers L/R or F/B, for shafts its balance point.) Same thing. Tweaking all of the to get it right. Again, you have numbers I have feel. You like blue, I like green. Oh well. But if you're just coming into this thread to stir the pot, post Wishon and Recoil propoganda I say please just leave. All you do is confuse people more. We're debating feel here. That is subjective Or possible performance trends compared to other shafts. An overall sort of comparison from many viewpoints. If I use words to try to help someone decide between models I don't need some jack wagon coming in here saying "Well, really 105S is softer in every aspect than S300." You didn't even in the slightest way answer the OP when he asked about launch and spin. You have numbers. Go try the shaft. Play it. See for youself. Read the 100 other people that have commented on the results of their testing. Look beyond the numbers. Read between the lines. Live man, live!!

 

 

So what's soft? With respect to what? One person's soft is another person's stiff. That's why it's comparison data. You have commented numerous times in the thread on a shaft's effect on launch and spin. So obviously you are attempting to comment on more than just feel. There again, if you understand how to read the charts, like you say you do, it's not an issue. What do the EI charts say? It's weight on a scale? How does that show individual feel? I'll answer that for you...it doesn't.

 

And who's aid they are confused by the charts?

 

Are you able to post EI charts with respect for the DG and Nippon shafts? I can because the data base is much bigger and I'm not limited to what's on an OEM website. So yes, in terms of profiles, I can show much more than the EI charts again. But again, they are the same data, you just don't understand them.

 

Softer is higher. Weaker means the opportunity to flex more, all else being equal. I kind of felt like that goes without saying.

 

You are the one that quoted me remember? With regards to charts that you obviously don't understand what you are reading(" Wishon is strictly CPM at length"). When I respond to let you know that you are incorrect, you respond with the childish dribble "blah blah blah". I asked you to provide examples, as I have numerous times before, instead you continue to skirt around things you can't answer. I let you know the balance point data is available, as well as things like shaft weight since you tried to bring the stuff up to someone show that one is inferior over another. Keep moving those goal posts......

[bluerrpilot]

If I'm going from s300 to 105s can I expect less spin and lower flight ?

 

 

The 105 is softer in every aspect when compared to the S300.

 

This is why I ask the question...I am only able to demo the 105s. To me the s300 feels softer through the ball, yet the weight is very noticeable to me.

[Golfrnut]

If I'm going from s300 to 105s can I expect less spin and lower flight ?

 

 

The 105 is softer in every aspect when compared to the S300.

 

This is why I ask the question...I am only able to demo the 105s. To me the s300 feels softer through the ball, yet the weight is very noticeable to me.

 

If you have demoed the 105s, what were your results?

[bluerrpilot]

Couldn't use the trackman..only ball speed, club speed and distance monitor.

 

Ball speed was nearly 8-10 mph faster and distance was also longer. Ball flight was much lower and looked very good. My s300's spun very good for me but flight was high. I was looking for similar spin numbers but lower launch. Both shafts were accurate so i couldn't say there was much difference in dispersion.

[Golfrnut]

Couldn't use the trackman..only ball speed, club speed and distance monitor. Ball speed was nearly 8-10 mph faster and distance was also longer. Ball flight was much lower and looked very good. My s300's spun very good for me but flight was high. I was looking for similar spin numbers but lower launch. Both shafts were accurate so i couldn't say there was much difference in dispersion.

 

 

If you are basing anything off of monitor data, I would wait until you have an opportunity to test on a reputable monitor, JMO. There are only a few that will read club head speed, and I would bet the one you were using isn't one of them. Same for distance, and without measuring things like launch angles and spin, it's a crapshoot on accuracy. I have no doubt that you could have gained ball speed, but does it come from a faster swing speed? Or a delofting of the golf club which improves the compression? Or just better contact in general? Any/all could be the case. Delofting, and better contact, can without a doubt change both the launch and spin which can go in a complete opposite direction of expectations, as well as feel "through the ball". If you can't test outside, and preferably with a monitor to confirm data, your next best option is to at least get good indoor data from a trustworthy monitor.

[jj9000]

So based purely on profile and CPM numbers, these shafts feel almost the same, or at the very least very close to each other?

 

Shaft #1 - 209, 245, 295, 370, 511, 941

Shaft #2 - 208, 243, 290, 364, 504, 949

 

 

Shaft #1 = DG R300

Shaft #2 = Modus3 120 Stiff

 

 

...and to me, they don't feel very similar to each other.

[Golfrnut]

So based purely on profile and CPM numbers, these shafts feel almost the same, or at the very least very close to each other?

 

Shaft #1 - 209, 245, 295, 370, 511, 941

Shaft #2 - 208, 243, 290, 364, 504, 949

 

 

Shaft #1 = DG R300

Shaft #2 = Modus3 120 Stiff

 

 

...and to me, they don't feel very similar to each other.

 

 

Would you necessarily expect them to? You are talking about the same force to bend, but possibly using completely different wall thickness and hoop strength to do so. There is 20 grams of weight difference between them. Even though the end result in stiffness is the same, the way they get there can be completely different.

[jj9000]

Would you necessarily expect them to?

 

If I didn't have a reputable fitter within 200 miles of me...couldn't swing each shaft...and made a purchasing decision based on CPM and EI profiles that I read here and elsewhere, the answer to your question above would be Yes. On paper they look to be very similar spec'd shafts...save the weight difference.

 

I've got no dog in this hunt between you and Mark...and in fact I've swung almost all models of the Modus shafts...and they don't fit the bill for me, as I like DG Pros better.

 

My point here is that I place value in more than numbers. For example...I might value someone's opinion relative to a given shaft more or less if they have a self described aggressive or smooth transition.

 

You and Mark are going back and forth...both having good intentions...but are really talking past each other.

[Golfrnut]

Would you necessarily expect them to?

 

If I didn't have a reputable fitter within 200 miles of me...couldn't swing each shaft...and made a purchasing decision based on CPM and EI profiles that I read here and elsewhere, the answer to your question above would be Yes. On paper they look to be very similar spec'd shafts...save the weight difference.

 

I've got no dog in this hunt between you and Mark...and in fact I've swung almost all models of the Modus shafts...and they don't fit the bill for me, as I like DG Pros better.

 

My point here is that I place value in more than numbers. For example...I might value someone's opinion relative to a given shaft more or less if they have a self described aggressive or smooth transition.

 

You and Mark are going back and forth...both having good intentions...but are really talking past each other.

 

No offense taken. And no offense intended on my part. That was just an honest question.

 

I ask that, because to me, the answer would be no...not necessarily. For the same reason that graphite many times doesn't feel the same as steel. And lighter versions of the same shaft, for example, DG and DG SL, don't feel the same to me. Although designed to be similar in profile, one absolutely destroys my elbows while the other doesn't.

 

Even though they may bend the same, under the same amount of load, they don't necessarily have to feel the same. Different ways of getting the same result. Would you expect them to bend the same under the same physical force? Yes, because they show the same performance under load. Would you expect everyone to swing them the same? Not at all. The human element is huge.

 

And my disagreement from Mark does not stem from a feel standpoint, it's due to a lot of misinformation that is getting spread in terms of shaft performance, that is just not true. And that stuff removes the human element from it all.

[Golfrnut]

If I'm going from s300 to 105s can I expect less spin and lower flight ?

 

Since the remark was made of really giving you any info in my last post. Here is the comparison values for the S300 vs 105S. They are from Tom Wishon's shaft software, so you can decide for yourself whether you trust the source of someone that has been doing this for decades.

 

As you can see, from the chart, the 105 is softer all the way through the profile(1 representing the butt section and running through point 6, which is taken 11" from the tip), and would be expected to both launch higher, and spin more, all else being equal for someone with a late enough release to cause a forward bending shaft at impact to effect the dynamic loft.

 

There is also 25g of shaft weight difference, which can also not be discounted. That is a huge difference in terms of weight.