Blade users thread (NO DEBATING CLUBHEADS! NO Buy Sell Trade!)

[DeNinny]

Hehehe bobby there is no need to apologize! LOL I couldn't care less if I was the last person on earth to love the BBs. All that means is more for me!

 

FWIW, I had the very same underwhelming experience with BBs and other Miuras when hitting into a sim. I was not smitten by the feel of Miura steel until I hit them off real turf. And when I did it was a completely different experience. And BTW it was with multiple shaft and head combos...shaft* didn't matter as much as the head at that point.

 

 

Yep, totally understood. No matter what happens in this life, when I get my length and lie finally dialed in, I am going to order a BB 5 iron head and put a DG X7 shaft in it and hit the hell out of some ProV1s OUTSIDE, OFF OF GRASS, and watch and feel what happens. I honestly hate hitting off fake turf, indoors, into a net. FOR ME, it's almost completely worthless, or maybe even worse than worthless, as it might give you a wrong impression either way (great club feels terrible, terrible club feels great). I also don't trust any launch monitors other than TrackMan, and even then, I want to use it outdoors.

 

GD, I'm getting picky in my old age...

 

indoors + mat = horrible

 

outdoors + mat = less horrible

 

The only way I'm ever going to have any confidence in the results of a sim is when I am comparing a bunch of the results to that of a known club that I already game. No matter what, I'm always comparing a potential next club to my current gamers or clubs that I'm very familiar with already. And because of this, I have passed on so many latest and greatest clubs out there. To this day, my mp67s and R5 Dual driver are just as good as anything out there and I have proven it with comparison numbers under a sim and real shots off turf.

 

And yeah the feel and overall experience is just not that great under a sim. I can't do it for sure. Like you, I hate it. Hitting driver indoors may be my only exception. Try as I might, I just can't hit irons well off mats because I know full well (hee hee by the science!!!) that the divot and turf interaction makes a difference in the shot and definitely how it should feel, so it just messes with me mentally.

 

I cannot wait to read your posts after you hit the crap outta that 5i! (Prediction: BB...FTW! :yahoo: )

[DeNinny]

I really enjoyed the Moira's I hit but didn't really get it until I hit DeNins off the turf. Just an eye opening moment.

 

Now on to the Hogans. Very nice club. Fairly long but a little more punishing on mishits than my 67's. Didn't hit the ball well but hit some very well also. Now the all important, very clicky and solid upon contact. Even on the most well struck balls there is a different feel. You can feel the club is more solid than your average blade. Will be interesting to see how life progresses with them.

How do your mp67s, KZGs, and my Retro TB 8i feel in contrast to the Hogans? Also is that Hogan sole grind making a tangible difference?

[db2]

I can only compare the FW15 (which I own) and the BB (which I've borrowed for the last couple of months). To me, most irons I have hit have a thin, crisp feel that when you hit it on the sweet spot, you almost feel nothing. As far as sensations go, the sound dominates the feedback (because there is little feedback when you hit it pure). Other irons--the minority--have such a solid, heavy feel that you can feel the mass of the clubhead when you hit it pure. Among the irons I've hit, I would place the 1973 Hogan Apex, the Masda Proto, the Hogan FW15, and the Miura BB in this group, with the Apex being the most solid and the BB being the least.

 

The Hogan's V-Sole is great, but that's not why it feels so solid. Perhaps it's the thicker topline, or maybe it's because Hogan heads tend to be heavier in the same lofts than other manufacturers' heads. My only complaint is that it has a bit more offset than I'd like. More than the other blades I mentioned, but less than the 1999 Apex, for example.

 

To me, the BB is the 100 point wine. It would get Robert Parker's raves for complexity, as it straddles my definition of a blade being thin or solid. It has a thin, crisp, and solid feel. While it doesn't have the FW15's heavy, solid feel, the BB's feedback is like nothing else--it's tight and concentrated.

[bobbyclampett!!]

Great write-up, db. Very descriptive.

 

I am obsessed with that heavy, solid feel, throughout the bag. To me, that is the joy of my Amp Cell Pros with the X100 and midsize Lamkin grips and D4 SW. Such a solid, heavy, meaty feeling when flushed. I have hit certain 3 irons (even off mats, indoors, into a net) that make me feel giddy and giggle like a little kid. Feedback is good enough on mishits (can definitely tell thin and toe hits), don't need it to be any better.

 

Who knows, maybe I've already found my dream set...

[DeNinny]

I can only compare the FW15 (which I own) and the BB (which I've borrowed for the last couple of months). To me, most irons I have hit have a thin, crisp feel that when you hit it on the sweet spot, you almost feel nothing. As far as sensations go, the sound dominates the feedback (because there is little feedback when you hit it pure). Other irons--the minority--have such a solid, heavy feel that you can feel the mass of the clubhead when you hit it pure. Among the irons I've hit, I would place the 1973 Hogan Apex, the Masda Proto, the Hogan FW15, and the Miura BB in this group, with the Apex being the most solid and the BB being the least.

 

The Hogan's V-Sole is great, but that's not why it feels so solid. Perhaps it's the thicker topline, or maybe it's because Hogan heads tend to be heavier in the same lofts than other manufacturers' heads. My only complaint is that it has a bit more offset than I'd like. More than the other blades I mentioned, but less than the 1999 Apex, for example.

 

To me, the BB is the 100 point wine. It would get Robert Parker's raves for complexity, as it straddles my definition of a blade being thin or solid. It has a thin, crisp, and solid feel. While it doesn't have the FW15's heavy, solid feel, the BB's feedback is like nothing else--it's tight and concentrated.

 

I understand what you are saying about that blade class of solid feeling enough to feel the clubhead mass. And I would put the Retro TB in the same class as the BB for that feel with, like you are saying, the BB feeling the least solid. I have equally described the BB feel as crispy soft and crispy solid, all at the same time. And that less solid feel is most definitely not a bad thing. For sure there is more of a "thunk" feel with my Retro TBs on a pure strike as compared to my BBs. And yes, 'tight and concentrated' is a perfect description.

 

And then outside of this class of feel there are my mp67s which, when hit pure, there is a little more of an absence of feel on a pure strike rather than a solid hit. I want to say my mp67s feel a little more "hollow" compared to my Miuras.

[mahonie]

Great write-up, db. Very descriptive.

 

I am obsessed with that heavy, solid feel, throughout the bag. To me, that is the joy of my Amp Cell Pros with the X100 and midsize Lamkin grips and D4 SW. Such a solid, heavy, meaty feeling when flushed. I have hit certain 3 irons (even off mats, indoors, into a net) that make me feel giddy and giggle like a little kid. Feedback is good enough on mishits (can definitely tell thin and toe hits), don't need it to be any better.

 

Who knows, maybe I've already found my dream set...

 

I would agree with your description of the Amp Cell Pros having a heavy, meaty feeling...my words to add to that would be squat and powerful. I may have mentioned this before, but one of my mates won a Cobra comp a couple of years back now which included a set of Cobra clubs fitted by the Euro Tour fitter. He was fitted into the Cell Pros (as well as having the full Cobra/Puma experience in California and playing iwith Poulter, Blixt and Fowler) and they are a beautiful set of irons. He also got a 'Pro only' shaft fitted into his driver and 3-wood that added 22 yards to the standard shafts but that's a different thread ;-)

[bobbyclampett!!]

Yes, squat and powerful. Love it. I was expecting BB to be even more squat and powerful, with the meat shaved off the length added to the thickness, but I wasn't getting that impression, and it seems like some comments here reinforce that. Sounds like the BB's greatness comes from a refined feel, not necessarily a legendary meatiness.

 

I like meaty, squat, and powerful.

[Kingcat990]

Yes, squat and powerful. Love it. I was expecting BB to be even more squat and powerful, with the meat shaved off the length added to the thickness, but I wasn't getting that impression, and it seems like some comments here reinforce that. Sounds like the BB's greatness comes from a refined feel, not necessarily a legendary meatiness.

 

I like meaty, squat, and powerful.

 

You might like the Traditional TR-3. That'd be right up your alley. 2-SW for a knockout price.

 

http://www.traditionalgolf.com/tr3_specs.html

 

 

[bobbyclampett!!]

Oh snap! That looks like a lot of meat.

[Nard_S]

I can only compare the FW15 (which I own) and the BB (which I've borrowed for the last couple of months). To me, most irons I have hit have a thin, crisp feel that when you hit it on the sweet spot, you almost feel nothing. As far as sensations go, the sound dominates the feedback (because there is little feedback when you hit it pure). Other irons--the minority--have such a solid, heavy feel that you can feel the mass of the clubhead when you hit it pure. Among the irons I've hit, I would place the 1973 Hogan Apex, the Masda Proto, the Hogan FW15, and the Miura BB in this group, with the Apex being the most solid and the BB being the least.

 

The Hogan's V-Sole is great, but that's not why it feels so solid. Perhaps it's the thicker topline, or maybe it's because Hogan heads tend to be heavier in the same lofts than other manufacturers' heads. My only complaint is that it has a bit more offset than I'd like. More than the other blades I mentioned, but less than the 1999 Apex, for example.

 

To me, the BB is the 100 point wine. It would get Robert Parker's raves for complexity, as it straddles my definition of a blade being thin or solid. It has a thin, crisp, and solid feel. While it doesn't have the FW15's heavy, solid feel, the BB's feedback is like nothing else--it's tight and concentrated.

 

Good comments.

 

Funny about the offset of the 99's, I have never noticed it till it was mentioned a couple of times in various threads. It's really mild, less than my Rams but more than my Titleist's or Wilson's. Maybe 2-3mm tops. Non issue for me.

 

Interested to hear how you compare 99's to BB or FW15, know one, clueless about the others.

[db2]

The 99 Apex are unlike any of the older Hogan blades I've hit or the FW15. They have a longer blade length, more offset, and are softer, but less solid. They have a pleasant thin, crisp feel. I actually think the FW15 (1025 carbon steel) may be softer than the 99 Apex (1030 carbon steel), but softness isn't the FW15's defining sensation. Like 1973 Apex, it's the dense, solid feel that stands out. The FW15 has the thickest topline on a blade that I've seen. But I like it. It's sandblasted whereas the 99 has a shiny chrome finish. While I liked the 99, I couldn't trust them because of the offset, so I sold them. I also didn't care for the glare from the shiny chrome finish.

 

The Miuras are the softest of the three and have the least amount of offset. They have a medium thick satin-finished topline--closer in thickness to the FW15 than the MP4, for example.

 

The FW15 has the best sole grind. The BB and 99 Apex are pretty similar, from what I recall about the 99.

[Bigmean]

Oh snap! That looks like a lot of meat.

 

That's what your mom said.

 

 

Sorry, I had to.

[Jonesy]

Adding one last comment....

 

If I could somehow manage to get an image of a moose in the cavity, I think my wife would go nuts. In a good way, that is. She loves moose, for some reason.

 

A moose once bit my sister...

 

Can we make the plural for moose, meese? 1 moose many meese... I just like saying the word meese...

 

Alright as you were...

[DeNinny]

Yes, squat and powerful. Love it.

 

...

 

I like meaty, squat, and powerful.

 

That's what Bigmean's mom said.

 

(Sorry. Had to.)

[Bigmean]

Mom jokes are awesome.....would a room full of moms in yoga pants contain many meeseknuckles?

 

 

Curious as to the what the masda protos mentioned earlier are? I hope not the set I was following down to $400 without pulling trigger. Had a nasty high and sharp toe, with a mp33 like muscle, also I think diamonds at edges of grooves like mac style. I shoulda got those.

[Bigmean]

Oh yeah, and I was bit by a horse as a kid and it was terrifying, saved by my denim jacket and cunning reflexes, I freaking hate them now. That is real and scary, your sister being bit is no joke. Screw horses, I need glue for my various adhesive needs.

[db2]

Curious as to the what the masda protos mentioned earlier are? I hope not the set I was following down to $400 without pulling trigger. Had a nasty high and sharp toe, with a mp33 like muscle, also I think diamonds at edges of grooves like mac style. I shoulda got those.

 

The Masda Proto is the current one, without the sharp toe. It has the yellow/gold paintfill in the muscle. Feel: dense, dense, dense; solid, solid, solid. Blade length is roughly 69mm (FW15 is 70mm), with a sandblasted topline that's between the BB and FW15 in thickness. Old school sole shape and grind. Very long hosel. Relatively shallow face for a modern iron--the FW15 is deeper and the MP4 is a bit deeper than the Hogan.

 

 

[dpark]

Wondering if the Ben Hogan Round Sole is a viable blade set? Have a set on a local website at $50. Good deal?

 

Great blades, but the one thing to be aware of with older forged blades is the sharp leading edge, especially with the scoring irons (8, 9, PW). Very good feel. I have the Bounce Sole irons with the Hogan H-3 shaft (regular flex, I believe) and enjoy playing with them, but the Apex PCs are my favorites, followed by the Apex II cameos.

[buzlin]

Yes, squat and powerful. Love it. I was expecting BB to be even more squat and powerful, with the meat shaved off the length added to the thickness, but I wasn't getting that impression, and it seems like some comments here reinforce that. Sounds like the BB's greatness comes from a refined feel, not necessarily a legendary meatiness.

 

I like meaty, squat, and powerful.

I haven't hit too many MBs, but the tourstage 909s were more meaty and powerful feeling than any MB I've ever played.

[DeNinny]

So I was at the range yesterday with my Retro TBs and two of my buddies and we start switching irons and clubs. I hit a bunch of balls with the 6i AP1 and TaylorMade MB. The AP1 was definitely numb feeling and I did not hit it as well as my Retro TB (duh) or the TaylorMade. The MB was clicky feeling but I could hit some nice shots with it. In my anecdotal and non-scientific conclusion after hitting about a dozen 6i shots the AP1 is not a forgiving club and is ugly at address. The offset and topline are not appealing. Wow what an underwhelming club. Not for me. And the TaylorMade MB is a fine blade.

 

And LOL the best part about the whole exchange was that my buddy who plays the AP1s said that I finally convinced him that clubs don't matter and he can hit blades. LMAO I practically had to force him to take my Retro TB 6i and after he hit a few slightly off he got into a groove and hit half a dozen really nice baby draws which is his natural shot. He was loving the feel and was surprised at how easy they were to hit. He had a look of delightful bewilderment as we traded clubs back. LOL I may have a convert blade user soon!

[mahonie]

So I was at the range yesterday with my Retro TBs and two of my buddies and we start switching irons and clubs. I hit a bunch of balls with the 6i AP2 and TaylorMade MB. The AP2 was definitely numb feeling and I did not hit it as well as my Retro TB (duh) or the TaylorMade. The MB was clicky feeling but I could hit some nice shots with it. In my anecdotal and non-scientific conclusion after hitting about a dozen 6i shots the AP2 is not a forgiving club and is ugly at address. The offset and topline are not appealing. Wow what an underwhelming club. Not for me. And the TaylorMade MB is a fine blade.

 

And LOL the best part about the whole exchange was that my buddy who plays the AP2s said that I finally convinced him that clubs don't matter and he can hit blades. LMAO I practically had to force him to take my Retro TB 6i and after he hit a few slightly off he got into a groove and hit half a dozen really nice baby draws which is his natural shot. He was loving the feel and was surprised at how easy they were to hit. He had a look of delightful bewilderment as we traded clubs back. LOL I may have a convert blade user soon!

 

Second your opinion of the AP2s...most overhyped club I have ever hit. I had the opportunity to test my MP4s against 714 AP2s and Ping S55s and found the AP2s to be very harsh on mishits and as you say a bit numb on good hits. I'll whisper it...the S55s were really quite nice and very similar in performance to my Mizzys...just lacking in that sublime feel that the MP4s have in their DNA. I get the feeling that Ping have really tried hard to replicate the feel of a forged MB and got quite close, but that feel is not something that they will ever achieve because it is not inherent in their history. Crossfield's review of the i-Blade (really poor marketing pun by Ping in the same vain as Rocketbladez/Speedbladez!) against the JPX 900 Tour demonstrates this perfectly.

[DeNinny]

Sorry mahonie they were AP1s!!!

 

But that said I have hit the AP2s even more than the AP1s and I think both are extremely underwhelming. The plastic in the head just kills the feel. It is awful for it.

[NRJyzr]

Wondering if the Ben Hogan Round Sole is a viable blade set? Have a set on a local website at $50. Good deal?

 

Great blades, but the one thing to be aware of with older forged blades is the sharp leading edge, especially with the scoring irons (8, 9, PW). Very good feel. I have the Bounce Sole irons with the Hogan H-3 shaft (regular flex, I believe) and enjoy playing with them, but the Apex PCs are my favorites, followed by the Apex II cameos.

 

I still somewhat feel I've missed out by not ever having a set of Hogans. When I was buying my first set, the two contenders in my trip to 2nd Swing were Golden Rams and 73-78 Apex. The deciding factor was shaft flex, the Hogans had Apex 3, I knew that wouldn't work. The Rams came with Precision 6.5.

 

Seemed an obvious choice. ;)

 

The Apex PC have their rep as low trajectory, and being a bit of a high ball type, seems like they'd be a good fit. Possibly. ;)

 

Ultimately, can only play one set at a time, and I already have quite a few I'm not using... so, yeah. :)

[Sir Slicealot]

I'm going to the driving range tomorrow in Bremerhaven, Germany with the only club I have with me right now...a 37" Ram Golden Tour Axial Grind 1 iron. I think this will be a lot of fun. If the weather is nice I may actually play the 11 hole course. I'll be sure to take pictures either way.

 

Here is a link to the course if anyone cares to look: http://www.golf-bhv.de/club-platz/golfplatz/uebungsanlage/

[kaaayelll]

@db2, those Masdas are tasty looking if I do say so myself. ?

[kaaayelll]

@bobbyclampett!!, PM me if you want a BB 5i.

[Sir Slicealot]

Well it was windy in Bremerhaven today, but I got off the ship and made my way to the driving range. It was pretty awesome even though the weather was less than perfect. I had some good shots and some utterly ridiculous excuses for a shot. I will say that a certain 37" 1-iron is not going to stay that short for very long. I cannot see the use in a club that when pured as hard as I can is struggling to go 170m. I found the Ram to be much firmer than the MP-29. It was difficult to elevate the ball and achieve max distance. It basically felt like a difficult to hit six iron. I ended up hitting about 100 or so balls. It was a good time regardless of the fact that swing a golf club felt unnatural to me today. The two absolute monster shots I had were these lapses of trying too hard and the most graceful swings ever. The ball flight was straight and long. This club is not quiet with range balls in cold weather. Having a great struggle loading pictures. Hope you enjoy the lone video.

[Bigmean]

Thank you DB2. So if I were to come across any below $550 it is probably a green light. Since you have played the bbs and say all this I am heavily weighting your opinion. I have a Masda putter and driver, both good clubs, the driver is a bomber but I sorta suck, but have always been nervous that Masda could be a boutique price thing without any notable perfornance (feel etc.) from the masses of other and cheaper jdm stuff in regards to the irons. Like I really like my buchi wedges, except profile is on large side, but I oaid $130 each used in good shape, at $250+ they go for, I would be less enthusiastic. Like they are good wedges, better than many and I like them a lot and get along with the 56 in particular best since my titliest brad faxon forged(awesome club), but at a certain point price sours the niceness. I don't have a problem paying, but I expect the higher the price, the nicer the nice, and I hate brand name buying without tangible differences to at least justify....not a big fan of tiffanys silver and the likes.

 

Of course I say that owning a GF putter and 2 GF custom mods.....I mean, at least my current putter is my favorite of all time ever, so that is tangible LOL.

[DeNinny]

Well it was windy in Bremerhaven today, but I got off the ship and made my way to the driving range. It was pretty awesome even though the weather was less than perfect. I had some good shots and some utterly ridiculous excuses for a shot. I will say that a certain 37" 1-iron is not going to stay that short for very long. I cannot see the use in a club that when pured as hard as I can is struggling to go 170m. I found the Ram to be much firmer than the MP-29. It was difficult to elevate the ball and achieve max distance. It basically felt like a difficult to hit six iron. I ended up hitting about 100 or so balls. It was a good time regardless of the fact that swing a golf club felt unnatural to me today. The two absolute monster shots I had were these lapses of trying too hard and the most graceful swings ever. The ball flight was straight and long. This club is not quiet with range balls in cold weather. Having a great struggle loading pictures. Hope you enjoy the lone video.

 

I enjoyed the video and LOL get that basket out of the way. And I know this is unsolicited, but I noticed at the very top of your backswing you tend to add a little hips tilt and you tended to do this on your more aggressive swings. It was less so in your smooth swings. And BTW I like your swing! Just stabilize the hips a little and it is golden. Your finish is nice and confident. You swing with purpose.

[Sir Slicealot]

You must realize that I know nothing about the golf swing other than trying to copy people I see and what people show me. I have gotten everywhere on unsolicited advice and I readily accept it. There were exactly zero special snowflakes melted by your comments and I highly appreciate them. Could you please expound on this hip tilt? I cannot see it exactly and I am curious is it away or toward the ball(+/- on y axis) or away or toward the target(+/- on x axis)? Thank you for your time.

 

 

As far as swinging with purpose...you are about to learn all about that with your new katana. You can hit the ball clear to the moon with that thing. In my budding love affair with long irons, I have found that God smiles upon those with swing speed; everything just seems to go better. That Ram is hard on the hands with a slow swing and range rocks.

 

 

On a non golf note: We just left Bremerhaven and the river pilot left the ship via helicopter hoist. I was the officer in charge on the deck and it was one of the neatest things I have seen to date. The harness is grounded on the deck, the guy runs over and dons the harness, gives the hoist signal, and assumes an arched starfish pose. He then literally goes straight up quite quickly and before you know it, is gone in the helicopter. Two minutes from beginning approach to helicopter away.