Leadbetters A Swing

[rangersgoalie]

Read the whole thread, and decided to jump in.
1) I am pro Lead biased
2) I worked with David in the late 80's early 90's while playing competitively
3) Just started working with Lead again
4) I teach, and play a little

In the past 7 weeks, I have changed my swing to the "A" swing. My swing going in to this, had evolved into a reasonably decent 1)club on line parallel to ground (but a little high) 2) shaft on decent angle halfway back 3) a little bit of lift of my right arm away from my body (old and fat) and then a decent look into the ball but a little closed with a lot of shaft lean through impact. Hit it solid, straight, low with little spin.
I had not worked with anybody since 1999, and decided to try to play some senior stuff, and wasn;t seeing improvement. Called Lead, not knowing anything about the "A" swing.

Spent 4 hours with him and completely changed everything. As he was explaining it to me, I was a little hesitant, but I have a lot of trust in David, he has been very good to/for me. Took some on faith, but my questions were answered by David in a way that made sense to be doing it.

Net effect. I have to think an awful lot right now, as it is still pretty new. My ball flight is significantly higher. 20 feet with 6 iron (Trackman) and 20-25 feet with driver. My stock flight is a slight fade (from low draw). Due to the swing thoughts, I am swinging at about 60% but flying my irons about 3-5 yards further. Driver is carrying further, and my accuracy is much better (finally enough spin to control things). On video, there is FAR less wasted motion from start to impact. Have had my lowest nine ever, and making many more birdies. After initial hesitance, I am all in.

[gigemaggs99]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1432524817' post='11621214']
[quote name='mattwood' timestamp='1432524522' post='11621188']
Why do I have a hard time believing that you are really interested and not looking for another opportunity to be negative. Must be a personality trait. The book has been out, what, a couple of weeks? Does your handicap drop significantly in that amount of time? Do your swing changes bring big of a change to your scores in that time? It seems that it just chides you that some people are really having some success with this since it seems to be your personal mission to denounce it.
[/quote]

You are reading way too much into this bro. Just asking a question. Multiple instructors on here lower handicaps by multiple strokes after a couple lessons, so based on some of the responses in this thread, I'd expect similar results. I'm just asking, I'd expect that many people have reduced their caps by a couple strokes, wouldn't you based on some of the responses? I hope people are getting better, I'd doesn't bother me at all, I'm just curious about what levels of succes we are talking about.
[/quote]

At the risk of taking the bait...

I agree, handicaps don't drop in my opinion after 1 or 2 rounds of golf. I have a real world job so I can't play every day. I've only had the book for 2 weeks, played once since learning the swing. This is about normal for me, getting to play 2-3 times per month, so no, my handicap has not changed by leaps and bounds.

In my opinion, those other programs that say they will help you drop 3-5 strokes off your next rounds, they show a guy swinging pre-lesson and he's lucky to make contact with the ball, then "post lesson" he has a completely different swing, like all of a sudden he's been playing and practicing for years!

This A Swing is not claiming to be revolutionary. The grip is different than your standard run of the mill article on the golf grip. Is it better or the first time someone has suggested a non-traditional grip? Heck NO.

Just changing your grip isn't going to drop your handicap by leaps and bounds. Never playing golf or having a clue what to do vs having a lesson and learning some basic fundamentals, then yes you should see a vast improvement.

From what I read from people posting here, they have played golf before, some for years so what it seems like is we are all fighting or working against years of teaching, reading, other knowledge that we thought to be the "proper" way to swing the club. This A Swing is just different, I think some people resist change in all aspects of life including golf.

For me the changes are not mind shattering, are they different and seem to go against some of the other things I've read and learned, yes. I don't think this makes them wrong though.

I like 1 swing, the only thing he seems to mention that might be different is pitching, opening the face a little. Other than that it's 1 swing with a few swing thoughts and a few moving parts that he tells you how to learn, implement, and practice.

This seems better for a busy working person like me that doesn't have hours to learn multiple different swings, irons vs, driver, vs fairway woods off the deck, vs wedges and on and on like some books or teaching will suggest.

On a side not, I don't understand the idea behind some people's posts. Since the internet came out (you will see this everywhere a forum exists) there will be people that take their time out of their day to post things that are either negative or completely off topic. Why they do this, I have no clue. For example I do not have any thing against gardening, but I do not have any desire or time to learn all the ins and outs of it, therefore I do not waste my time searching for a forum or place to talk about it and I sure don't waste my time going on there to say things like " this should go away" "this is dumb" etc....

There are plenty of topics even here, that I never even read, I'd rather spend my time if nothing else working on my golf game. Why do people make negative or off topic posts? I guess b/c they are bored and nothing else to do. Maybe they have a +5 handicap and are bored shooting in the low to mid 60s...I have no clue, it's a free country people will do what they want.

If you like the A Swing or are interested in it, good, if not I'm not sure why you're reading this.

Hit 'em Straight.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='gigemaggs99' timestamp='1432572968' post='11623110']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1432524817' post='11621214']
[quote name='mattwood' timestamp='1432524522' post='11621188']
Why do I have a hard time believing that you are really interested and not looking for another opportunity to be negative. Must be a personality trait. The book has been out, what, a couple of weeks? Does your handicap drop significantly in that amount of time? Do your swing changes bring big of a change to your scores in that time? It seems that it just chides you that some people are really having some success with this since it seems to be your personal mission to denounce it.
[/quote]

You are reading way too much into this bro. Just asking a question. Multiple instructors on here lower handicaps by multiple strokes after a couple lessons, so based on some of the responses in this thread, I'd expect similar results. I'm just asking, I'd expect that many people have reduced their caps by a couple strokes, wouldn't you based on some of the responses? I hope people are getting better, I'd doesn't bother me at all, I'm just curious about what levels of succes we are talking about.
[/quote]

In my opinion, those other programs that say they will help you drop 3-5 strokes off your next rounds, [b]they show a guy swinging pre-lesson and he's lucky to make contact with the ball, then "post lesson" he has a completely different swing[/b], like all of a sudden he's been playing and practicing for years!

[/quote]

Kinda like this guy ?

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbY7VDEysV8[/media]

[bph7]

[quote name='gigemaggs99' timestamp='1432572968' post='11623110']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1432524817' post='11621214']
[quote name='mattwood' timestamp='1432524522' post='11621188']
Why do I have a hard time believing that you are really interested and not looking for another opportunity to be negative. Must be a personality trait. The book has been out, what, a couple of weeks? Does your handicap drop significantly in that amount of time? Do your swing changes bring big of a change to your scores in that time? It seems that it just chides you that some people are really having some success with this since it seems to be your personal mission to denounce it.
[/quote]

You are reading way too much into this bro. Just asking a question. Multiple instructors on here lower handicaps by multiple strokes after a couple lessons, so based on some of the responses in this thread, I'd expect similar results. I'm just asking, I'd expect that many people have reduced their caps by a couple strokes, wouldn't you based on some of the responses? I hope people are getting better, I'd doesn't bother me at all, I'm just curious about what levels of succes we are talking about.
[/quote]

At the risk of taking the bait...

I agree, handicaps don't drop in my opinion after 1 or 2 rounds of golf. I have a real world job so I can't play every day. I've only had the book for 2 weeks, played once since learning the swing. This is about normal for me, getting to play 2-3 times per month, so no, my handicap has not changed by leaps and bounds.

In my opinion, those other programs that say they will help you drop 3-5 strokes off your next rounds, they show a guy swinging pre-lesson and he's lucky to make contact with the ball, then "post lesson" he has a completely different swing, like all of a sudden he's been playing and practicing for years!

This A Swing is not claiming to be revolutionary. The grip is different than your standard run of the mill article on the golf grip. Is it better or the first time someone has suggested a non-traditional grip? Heck NO.

Just changing your grip isn't going to drop your handicap by leaps and bounds. Never playing golf or having a clue what to do vs having a lesson and learning some basic fundamentals, then yes you should see a vast improvement.

From what I read from people posting here, they have played golf before, some for years so what it seems like is we are all fighting or working against years of teaching, reading, other knowledge that we thought to be the "proper" way to swing the club. This A Swing is just different, I think some people resist change in all aspects of life including golf.

For me the changes are not mind shattering, are they different and seem to go against some of the other things I've read and learned, yes. I don't think this makes them wrong though.

I like 1 swing, the only thing he seems to mention that might be different is pitching, opening the face a little. Other than that it's 1 swing with a few swing thoughts and a few moving parts that he tells you how to learn, implement, and practice.

This seems better for a busy working person like me that doesn't have hours to learn multiple different swings, irons vs, driver, vs fairway woods off the deck, vs wedges and on and on like some books or teaching will suggest.

On a side not, I don't understand the idea behind some people's posts. Since the internet came out (you will see this everywhere a forum exists) there will be people that take their time out of their day to post things that are either negative or completely off topic. Why they do this, I have no clue. For example I do not have any thing against gardening, but I do not have any desire or time to learn all the ins and outs of it, therefore I do not waste my time searching for a forum or place to talk about it and I sure don't waste my time going on there to say things like " this should go away" "this is dumb" etc....

There are plenty of topics even here, that I never even read, I'd rather spend my time if nothing else working on my golf game. Why do people make negative or off topic posts? I guess b/c they are bored and nothing else to do. Maybe they have a +5 handicap and are bored shooting in the low to mid 60s...I have no clue, it's a free country people will do what they want.

If you like the A Swing or are interested in it, good, if not I'm not sure why you're reading this.

Hit 'em Straight.
[/quote]

again, was just curious about the improvement people are making. I'm sorry, but the random, " I went to the range, tried it for 15 minutes, seemed to hit it better," is what people say in every thread, it's not necessarily lasting improvement. The fact that you think it's some kind of loaded question or negative shows that either you don't think people are actually irmproving or that you are just reading way too much into it.

[phil75070]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1432574055' post='11623168']
again, was just curious about the improvement people are making. I'm sorry, but the random, " I went to the range, tried it for 15 minutes, seemed to hit it better," is what people say in every thread, it's not necessarily lasting improvement. The fact that you think it's some kind of loaded question or negative shows that either you don't think people are actually irmproving or that you are just reading way too much into it.
[/quote]

One may see little to NO improvement from a handicap standpoint since handicaps are based on the best 10 of the last 20 rounds. The improvement may just come from more consistency and less drastic swings from best to worst rounds. I know in my case I would just like to reduce the number of those "where the heck did that come from" swings/shots. I am just looking to narrow the gap between my best shots and my worst shots, not necessarily hit my best shots any better.

[gigemaggs99]

[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1432573741' post='11623158']
[quote name='gigemaggs99' timestamp='1432572968' post='11623110']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1432524817' post='11621214']
[quote name='mattwood' timestamp='1432524522' post='11621188']
Why do I have a hard time believing that you are really interested and not looking for another opportunity to be negative. Must be a personality trait. The book has been out, what, a couple of weeks? Does your handicap drop significantly in that amount of time? Do your swing changes bring big of a change to your scores in that time? It seems that it just chides you that some people are really having some success with this since it seems to be your personal mission to denounce it.
[/quote]

You are reading way too much into this bro. Just asking a question. Multiple instructors on here lower handicaps by multiple strokes after a couple lessons, so based on some of the responses in this thread, I'd expect similar results. I'm just asking, I'd expect that many people have reduced their caps by a couple strokes, wouldn't you based on some of the responses? I hope people are getting better, I'd doesn't bother me at all, I'm just curious about what levels of succes we are talking about.
[/quote]

In my opinion, those other programs that say they will help you drop 3-5 strokes off your next rounds, [b]they show a guy swinging pre-lesson and he's lucky to make contact with the ball, then "post lesson" he has a completely different swing[/b], like all of a sudden he's been playing and practicing for years!

[/quote]

Kinda like this guy ?

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbY7VDEysV8[/media]
[/quote]

Have you watched the video? I must have missed something. In the entire video I hear no mention of him improving his handicap? They say nothing about how his scores improved, the video is showing his swing plane change, it seems to show what they are talking about...I'm confused as to how you think this means he's cutting strokes?

[gigemaggs99]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1432574055' post='11623168']
[quote name='gigemaggs99' timestamp='1432572968' post='11623110']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1432524817' post='11621214']
[quote name='mattwood' timestamp='1432524522' post='11621188']
Why do I have a hard time believing that you are really interested and not looking for another opportunity to be negative. Must be a personality trait. The book has been out, what, a couple of weeks? Does your handicap drop significantly in that amount of time? Do your swing changes bring big of a change to your scores in that time? It seems that it just chides you that some people are really having some success with this since it seems to be your personal mission to denounce it.
[/quote]

You are reading way too much into this bro. Just asking a question. Multiple instructors on here lower handicaps by multiple strokes after a couple lessons, so based on some of the responses in this thread, I'd expect similar results. I'm just asking, I'd expect that many people have reduced their caps by a couple strokes, wouldn't you based on some of the responses? I hope people are getting better, I'd doesn't bother me at all, I'm just curious about what levels of succes we are talking about.
[/quote]

At the risk of taking the bait...

I agree, handicaps don't drop in my opinion after 1 or 2 rounds of golf. I have a real world job so I can't play every day. I've only had the book for 2 weeks, played once since learning the swing. This is about normal for me, getting to play 2-3 times per month, so no, my handicap has not changed by leaps and bounds.

In my opinion, those other programs that say they will help you drop 3-5 strokes off your next rounds, they show a guy swinging pre-lesson and he's lucky to make contact with the ball, then "post lesson" he has a completely different swing, like all of a sudden he's been playing and practicing for years!

This A Swing is not claiming to be revolutionary. The grip is different than your standard run of the mill article on the golf grip. Is it better or the first time someone has suggested a non-traditional grip? Heck NO.

Just changing your grip isn't going to drop your handicap by leaps and bounds. Never playing golf or having a clue what to do vs having a lesson and learning some basic fundamentals, then yes you should see a vast improvement.

From what I read from people posting here, they have played golf before, some for years so what it seems like is we are all fighting or working against years of teaching, reading, other knowledge that we thought to be the "proper" way to swing the club. This A Swing is just different, I think some people resist change in all aspects of life including golf.

For me the changes are not mind shattering, are they different and seem to go against some of the other things I've read and learned, yes. I don't think this makes them wrong though.

I like 1 swing, the only thing he seems to mention that might be different is pitching, opening the face a little. Other than that it's 1 swing with a few swing thoughts and a few moving parts that he tells you how to learn, implement, and practice.

This seems better for a busy working person like me that doesn't have hours to learn multiple different swings, irons vs, driver, vs fairway woods off the deck, vs wedges and on and on like some books or teaching will suggest.

On a side not, I don't understand the idea behind some people's posts. Since the internet came out (you will see this everywhere a forum exists) there will be people that take their time out of their day to post things that are either negative or completely off topic. Why they do this, I have no clue. For example I do not have any thing against gardening, but I do not have any desire or time to learn all the ins and outs of it, therefore I do not waste my time searching for a forum or place to talk about it and I sure don't waste my time going on there to say things like " this should go away" "this is dumb" etc....

There are plenty of topics even here, that I never even read, I'd rather spend my time if nothing else working on my golf game. Why do people make negative or off topic posts? I guess b/c they are bored and nothing else to do. Maybe they have a +5 handicap and are bored shooting in the low to mid 60s...I have no clue, it's a free country people will do what they want.

If you like the A Swing or are interested in it, good, if not I'm not sure why you're reading this.

Hit 'em Straight.
[/quote]

again, was just curious about the improvement people are making. I'm sorry, but the random, " I went to the range, tried it for 15 minutes, seemed to hit it better," is what people say in every thread, it's not necessarily lasting improvement. The fact that you think it's some kind of loaded question or negative shows that either you don't think people are actually irmproving or that you are just reading way too much into it.
[/quote]

Ok, have you tried the swing? Have you applied the ideas he's suggesting? How have your results been?

[gigemaggs99]

[quote name='phil75070' timestamp='1432577241' post='11623394']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1432574055' post='11623168']
again, was just curious about the improvement people are making. I'm sorry, but the random, " I went to the range, tried it for 15 minutes, seemed to hit it better," is what people say in every thread, it's not necessarily lasting improvement. The fact that you think it's some kind of loaded question or negative shows that either you don't think people are actually irmproving or that you are just reading way too much into it.
[/quote]

One may see little to NO improvement from a handicap standpoint since handicaps are based on the best 10 of the last 20 rounds. The improvement may just come from more consistency and less drastic swings from best to worst rounds. I know in my case I would just like to reduce the number of those "where the heck did that come from" swings/shots. I am just looking to narrow the gap between my best shots and my worst shots, not necessarily hit my best shots any better.
[/quote]

Agreed 100%.

I have multiple good books on golf, they all have their good points, [u]Faldo A Swing For Life[/u] mentions a major goal for him in golf is to limit his bad swings. He knows he's going to have good/great swings, but he wants to limit the bad ones.

This swing helps me, the amateur golfer do just this. It doesn't turn me into a pro overnight, but it does help me limit my bad swings, I believe it does this by giving you a simple plan for 1 swing throughout your bag.

[starsail85]

Ive always thought with leadbetter his main theory is to set it steep going back so there is no need for the over the top move(to recover from the deep rolled backswing)

this seems like a more severe model

could be interesting

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='gigemaggs99' timestamp='1432585794' post='11624046']
[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1432573741' post='11623158']
[quote name='gigemaggs99' timestamp='1432572968' post='11623110']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1432524817' post='11621214']
[quote name='mattwood' timestamp='1432524522' post='11621188']
Why do I have a hard time believing that you are really interested and not looking for another opportunity to be negative. Must be a personality trait. The book has been out, what, a couple of weeks? Does your handicap drop significantly in that amount of time? Do your swing changes bring big of a change to your scores in that time? It seems that it just chides you that some people are really having some success with this since it seems to be your personal mission to denounce it.
[/quote]

You are reading way too much into this bro. Just asking a question. Multiple instructors on here lower handicaps by multiple strokes after a couple lessons, so based on some of the responses in this thread, I'd expect similar results. I'm just asking, I'd expect that many people have reduced their caps by a couple strokes, wouldn't you based on some of the responses? I hope people are getting better, I'd doesn't bother me at all, I'm just curious about what levels of succes we are talking about.
[/quote]

In my opinion, those other programs that say they will help you drop 3-5 strokes off your next rounds, [b]they show a guy swinging pre-lesson and he's lucky to make contact with the ball, then "post lesson" he has a completely different swing[/b], like all of a sudden he's been playing and practicing for years!

[/quote]

Kinda like this guy ?

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbY7VDEysV8[/media]
[/quote]

Have you watched the video? I must have missed something. In the entire video I hear no mention of him improving his handicap? They say nothing about how his scores improved, the video is showing his swing plane change, it seems to show what they are talking about...I'm confused as to how you think this means he's cutting strokes?
[/quote]

You did miss something ... tune in to about 8:45 and tell me what you hear. I'm not saying that the guy on the right does not swing better that when he started, but Leadbetter could have posted this video on YouTube 10 years ago as a case study without the "A"lternative packaging. You even admit that the "A" swing is nothing revolutionary. If that's the case, it's just a marketing ploy to make a killing on those who think they need [b]any[/b] alternative to the way they currently swing. Even Tiger has tried a few alternatives in his career ...

[bph7]

[quote name='gigemaggs99' timestamp='1432585859' post='11624052']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1432574055' post='11623168']
[quote name='gigemaggs99' timestamp='1432572968' post='11623110']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1432524817' post='11621214']
[quote name='mattwood' timestamp='1432524522' post='11621188']
Why do I have a hard time believing that you are really interested and not looking for another opportunity to be negative. Must be a personality trait. The book has been out, what, a couple of weeks? Does your handicap drop significantly in that amount of time? Do your swing changes bring big of a change to your scores in that time? It seems that it just chides you that some people are really having some success with this since it seems to be your personal mission to denounce it.
[/quote]

You are reading way too much into this bro. Just asking a question. Multiple instructors on here lower handicaps by multiple strokes after a couple lessons, so based on some of the responses in this thread, I'd expect similar results. I'm just asking, I'd expect that many people have reduced their caps by a couple strokes, wouldn't you based on some of the responses? I hope people are getting better, I'd doesn't bother me at all, I'm just curious about what levels of succes we are talking about.
[/quote]

At the risk of taking the bait...

I agree, handicaps don't drop in my opinion after 1 or 2 rounds of golf. I have a real world job so I can't play every day. I've only had the book for 2 weeks, played once since learning the swing. This is about normal for me, getting to play 2-3 times per month, so no, my handicap has not changed by leaps and bounds.

In my opinion, those other programs that say they will help you drop 3-5 strokes off your next rounds, they show a guy swinging pre-lesson and he's lucky to make contact with the ball, then "post lesson" he has a completely different swing, like all of a sudden he's been playing and practicing for years!

This A Swing is not claiming to be revolutionary. The grip is different than your standard run of the mill article on the golf grip. Is it better or the first time someone has suggested a non-traditional grip? Heck NO.

Just changing your grip isn't going to drop your handicap by leaps and bounds. Never playing golf or having a clue what to do vs having a lesson and learning some basic fundamentals, then yes you should see a vast improvement.

From what I read from people posting here, they have played golf before, some for years so what it seems like is we are all fighting or working against years of teaching, reading, other knowledge that we thought to be the "proper" way to swing the club. This A Swing is just different, I think some people resist change in all aspects of life including golf.

For me the changes are not mind shattering, are they different and seem to go against some of the other things I've read and learned, yes. I don't think this makes them wrong though.

I like 1 swing, the only thing he seems to mention that might be different is pitching, opening the face a little. Other than that it's 1 swing with a few swing thoughts and a few moving parts that he tells you how to learn, implement, and practice.

This seems better for a busy working person like me that doesn't have hours to learn multiple different swings, irons vs, driver, vs fairway woods off the deck, vs wedges and on and on like some books or teaching will suggest.

On a side not, I don't understand the idea behind some people's posts. Since the internet came out (you will see this everywhere a forum exists) there will be people that take their time out of their day to post things that are either negative or completely off topic. Why they do this, I have no clue. For example I do not have any thing against gardening, but I do not have any desire or time to learn all the ins and outs of it, therefore I do not waste my time searching for a forum or place to talk about it and I sure don't waste my time going on there to say things like " this should go away" "this is dumb" etc....

There are plenty of topics even here, that I never even read, I'd rather spend my time if nothing else working on my golf game. Why do people make negative or off topic posts? I guess b/c they are bored and nothing else to do. Maybe they have a +5 handicap and are bored shooting in the low to mid 60s...I have no clue, it's a free country people will do what they want.

If you like the A Swing or are interested in it, good, if not I'm not sure why you're reading this.

Hit 'em Straight.
[/quote]

again, was just curious about the improvement people are making. I'm sorry, but the random, " I went to the range, tried it for 15 minutes, seemed to hit it better," is what people say in every thread, it's not necessarily lasting improvement. The fact that you think it's some kind of loaded question or negative shows that either you don't think people are actually irmproving or that you are just reading way too much into it.
[/quote]

Ok, have you tried the swing? Have you applied the ideas he's suggesting? How have your results been?
[/quote]

No , seems like a total waste of time/energy because no book or video is a good way to actually improve. It's not necessarily a knock on whatever he's teaching, just that no one ever seems to have lasting improvement just from a book/video. Maybe this one will be the first, that's why I was asking.

[Martee]

BHP7, I would be suspect if someone after trying this swing approach was to claim their index had dropped, in fact it would not surprise me to hear that they have seen some scores increase. If in fact this approach has changed the golfer's distance, ball fight, etc. then there will be a learning curve to get dialed in.

Besides the index is a measure of how well you play, your golf stroke is only a part of the whole. I would expect that consistency and trending downward would be a great sign of a complete golfer not just a golf swing.

[bph7]

[quote name='Martee' timestamp='1432593377' post='11624576']
BHP7, I would be suspect if someone after trying this swing approach was to claim their index had dropped, in fact it would not surprise me to hear that they have seen some scores increase. If in fact this approach has changed the golfer's distance, ball fight, etc. then there will be a learning curve to get dialed in.

Besides the index is a measure of how well you play, your golf stroke is only a part of the whole. I would expect that consistency and trending downward would be a great sign of a complete golfer not just a golf swing.
[/quote]

Ok, so no reports of lowering indexes and apparently rising indexes might be a good sign? Seems like a quite a ringing endorsement of this sure to be revolutionary book.

[Hammerboy]

Glad to see postive reports about the A Swing.

For those of you on the fence about it, take the naysaying as valiadation that it is probably worth trying. You got some here that have not read the book, yet feel compelled to offer their two cents.

They certainly have the right to offer their uninforned two cents, but to me is no different than the bark of my dog Boris


WOOF WOOF WOOF. The sound of naysayers. Predictable as Boris giving paw to get a treat.

[barryw710]

[quote name='Patrick Jurke' timestamp='1432606081' post='11626022']
[quote name='rangersgoalie' timestamp='1432541176' post='11621790']
Read the whole thread, and decided to jump in.
1) I am pro Lead biased
2) I worked with David in the late 80's early 90's while playing competitively
3) Just started working with Lead again
4) I teach, and play a little

In the past 7 weeks, I have changed my swing to the "A" swing. My swing going in to this, had evolved into a reasonably decent 1)club on line parallel to ground (but a little high) 2) shaft on decent angle halfway back 3) a little bit of lift of my right arm away from my body (old and fat) and then a decent look into the ball but a little closed with a lot of shaft lean through impact. Hit it solid, straight, low with little spin.
I had not worked with anybody since 1999, and decided to try to play some senior stuff, and wasn;t seeing improvement. Called Lead, not knowing anything about the "A" swing.

Spent 4 hours with him and completely changed everything. As he was explaining it to me, I was a little hesitant, but I have a lot of trust in David, he has been very good to/for me. Took some on faith, but my questions were answered by David in a way that made sense to be doing it.

Net effect. I have to think an awful lot right now, as it is still pretty new. My ball flight is significantly higher. 20 feet with 6 iron (Trackman) and 20-25 feet with driver. My stock flight is a slight fade (from low draw). Due to the swing thoughts, I am swinging at about 60% but flying my irons about 3-5 yards further. Driver is carrying further, and my accuracy is much better (finally enough spin to control things). On video, there is FAR less wasted motion from start to impact. Have had my lowest nine ever, and making many more birdies. After initial hesitance, I am all in.
[/quote]

Thanks for the post. Can you post a video of your current A-Swing?

Are you sure that it's because you're old and fat that you used to 'lift your right arm away from your body' ?

Now, didn't you used to use the 'hands in, clubhead out' takeaway with a fairly vertical shaft in the backswing before the A-Swing? if so, is it now just even more pronounced?

If so, does the inevitable shallowing due to the even more pronounced extremely vertical shaft in the backswing get your right arm in a better position at the top, or are you still having to arch your left wrist during start down in order to try and get the club on a shallower plane?

Have you historically hit it short because of a pivot that was just not very dynamic?

Are you still attracted to men?
[/quote]
Do you still beat your wife ?

[mitchdoc]

Well after having a winter layoff from Golf where I did not touch my clubs for over 5 months I began the season and have been struggling mightily. Then I found out about this a swing and said what the heck for the price of an expensive sleeve of pro v1's I could buy the book and I did. I will admit that so far my scores have not necessarily improve drastically though I am hitting the ball screw dificultly better than I was the beginning of the year. Realize that it is a completely different feel and a more compact swing. As well as I remember not to get into my old habits and less eliminate using my hands or arms to initiate the downswing but rather use my pivot I end up hitting very good and consistent shots. It will be an adjustment for anybody who tries this wing because old habits die hard and it is hard for a golfer who's been playing a long time doing things a certain way to suddenly stop doing them all together. But, when I get into a groove and I start doing it consistently I have had runs of 6 or 7 holes of playing Par Golf playing like I had when I was playing my better golf over the last few years. Unfortunately I am still prone to the occasional wild shot when I start mixing old and new elements of a golf swing. And those are the shots that lead to double bogeys or worse at times which is why my score is still in the mid to high 80's right now and I'm not dropping as low as I would like. That said realize the book came out only two weeks ago and I do not expect miracles overnight. For any of the naysayers who have been criticizing the book in this thread I only have this to say. I teach Monty others are all fantastic instructors and I have personally taken lessons from I teach and I'm using his short game methods. I think this book and this technique have genuine merits and I would not discount it just because it seems different or that he is a shell just trying to make money. I think David Leadbetter is on to something that seems to be not too complicated a movement to perform and seems repeatable without having to think of too many moving parts. So don't knock it until you try it and if you haven't tried it you can be skeptical but it's hard to be critical of something that you have no experience with.

[barryw710]

[quote name='Patrick Jurke' timestamp='1432609092' post='11626336']
[quote name='barryw710' timestamp='1432608962' post='11626322']
[quote name='Patrick Jurke' timestamp='1432606081' post='11626022']
[quote name='rangersgoalie' timestamp='1432541176' post='11621790']
Read the whole thread, and decided to jump in.
1) I am pro Lead biased
2) I worked with David in the late 80's early 90's while playing competitively
3) Just started working with Lead again
4) I teach, and play a little

In the past 7 weeks, I have changed my swing to the "A" swing. My swing going in to this, had evolved into a reasonably decent 1)club on line parallel to ground (but a little high) 2) shaft on decent angle halfway back 3) a little bit of lift of my right arm away from my body (old and fat) and then a decent look into the ball but a little closed with a lot of shaft lean through impact. Hit it solid, straight, low with little spin.
I had not worked with anybody since 1999, and decided to try to play some senior stuff, and wasn;t seeing improvement. Called Lead, not knowing anything about the "A" swing.

Spent 4 hours with him and completely changed everything. As he was explaining it to me, I was a little hesitant, but I have a lot of trust in David, he has been very good to/for me. Took some on faith, but my questions were answered by David in a way that made sense to be doing it.

Net effect. I have to think an awful lot right now, as it is still pretty new. My ball flight is significantly higher. 20 feet with 6 iron (Trackman) and 20-25 feet with driver. My stock flight is a slight fade (from low draw). Due to the swing thoughts, I am swinging at about 60% but flying my irons about 3-5 yards further. Driver is carrying further, and my accuracy is much better (finally enough spin to control things). On video, there is FAR less wasted motion from start to impact. Have had my lowest nine ever, and making many more birdies. After initial hesitance, I am all in.
[/quote]

Thanks for the post. Can you post a video of your current A-Swing?

Are you sure that it's because you're old and fat that you used to 'lift your right arm away from your body' ?

Now, didn't you used to use the 'hands in, clubhead out' takeaway with a fairly vertical shaft in the backswing before the A-Swing? if so, is it now just even more pronounced?

If so, does the inevitable shallowing due to the even more pronounced extremely vertical shaft in the backswing get your right arm in a better position at the top, or are you still having to arch your left wrist during start down in order to try and get the club on a shallower plane?

Have you historically hit it short because of a pivot that was just not very dynamic?

Are you still attracted to men?
[/quote]
Do you still beat your wife ?
[/quote]

Nope. Went for a little boat ride and now she don't give me no trouble
[/quote]
Whatever that means . You are hilarious.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

[quote name='Patrick Jurke' timestamp='1432609092' post='11626336']
[quote name='barryw710' timestamp='1432608962' post='11626322']
[quote name='Patrick Jurke' timestamp='1432606081' post='11626022']
[quote name='rangersgoalie' timestamp='1432541176' post='11621790']
Read the whole thread, and decided to jump in.
1) I am pro Lead biased
2) I worked with David in the late 80's early 90's while playing competitively
3) Just started working with Lead again
4) I teach, and play a little

In the past 7 weeks, I have changed my swing to the "A" swing. My swing going in to this, had evolved into a reasonably decent 1)club on line parallel to ground (but a little high) 2) shaft on decent angle halfway back 3) a little bit of lift of my right arm away from my body (old and fat) and then a decent look into the ball but a little closed with a lot of shaft lean through impact. Hit it solid, straight, low with little spin.
I had not worked with anybody since 1999, and decided to try to play some senior stuff, and wasn;t seeing improvement. Called Lead, not knowing anything about the "A" swing.

Spent 4 hours with him and completely changed everything. As he was explaining it to me, I was a little hesitant, but I have a lot of trust in David, he has been very good to/for me. Took some on faith, but my questions were answered by David in a way that made sense to be doing it.

Net effect. I have to think an awful lot right now, as it is still pretty new. My ball flight is significantly higher. 20 feet with 6 iron (Trackman) and 20-25 feet with driver. My stock flight is a slight fade (from low draw). Due to the swing thoughts, I am swinging at about 60% but flying my irons about 3-5 yards further. Driver is carrying further, and my accuracy is much better (finally enough spin to control things). On video, there is FAR less wasted motion from start to impact. Have had my lowest nine ever, and making many more birdies. After initial hesitance, I am all in.
[/quote]

Thanks for the post. Can you post a video of your current A-Swing?

Are you sure that it's because you're old and fat that you used to 'lift your right arm away from your body' ?

Now, didn't you used to use the 'hands in, clubhead out' takeaway with a fairly vertical shaft in the backswing before the A-Swing? if so, is it now just even more pronounced?

If so, does the inevitable shallowing due to the even more pronounced extremely vertical shaft in the backswing get your right arm in a better position at the top, or are you still having to arch your left wrist during start down in order to try and get the club on a shallower plane?

Have you historically hit it short because of a pivot that was just not very dynamic?

Are you still attracted to men?
[/quote]
Do you still beat your wife ?
[/quote]

Nope. Went for a little boat ride and now she don't give me no trouble
[/quote]
I knew you were posting from San Quentin you mofo!!!! You used to have some game Scotty P back in the day right? Are the showers as pleasant there as i've heard?

[barryw710]

[quote name='mitchdoc' timestamp='1432609388' post='11626370']
Well after having a winter layoff from Golf where I did not touch my clubs for over 5 months I began the season and have been struggling mightily. Then I found out about this a swing and said what the heck for the price of an expensive sleeve of pro v1's I could buy the book and I did. I will admit that so far my scores have not necessarily improve drastically though I am hitting the ball screw dificultly better than I was the beginning of the year. Realize that it is a completely different feel and a more compact swing. As well as I remember not to get into my old habits and less eliminate using my hands or arms to initiate the downswing but rather use my pivot I end up hitting very good and consistent shots. It will be an adjustment for anybody who tries this wing because old habits die hard and it is hard for a golfer who's been playing a long time doing things a certain way to suddenly stop doing them all together. But, when I get into a groove and I start doing it consistently I have had runs of 6 or 7 holes of playing Par Golf playing like I had when I was playing my better golf over the last few years. Unfortunately I am still prone to the occasional wild shot when I start mixing old and new elements of a golf swing. And those are the shots that lead to double bogeys or worse at times which is why my score is still in the mid to high 80's right now and I'm not dropping as low as I would like. That said realize the book came out only two weeks ago and I do not expect miracles overnight. For any of the naysayers who have been criticizing the book in this thread I only have this to say. I teach Monty others are all fantastic instructors and I have personally taken lessons from I teach and I'm using his short game methods. I think this book and this technique have genuine merits and I would not discount it just because it seems different or that he is a shell just trying to make money. I think David Leadbetter is on to something that seems to be not too complicated a movement to perform and seems repeatable without having to think of too many moving parts. So don't knock it until you try it and if you haven't tried it you can be skeptical but it's hard to be critical of something that you have no experience with.
[/quote]
i agree 100%. I am hitting some of the best shots i have hit in years. (Some not so good but getting to be fewer) As i mentioned in an earlier post, i am getting significantly more distance without even trying.Seems to be a concensus among people who have tried it. I think it is coming from a more efficient wrist c0ck and release. Maybe i was doing it all wrong for the past 35 yrs but it so much fun to be hitting the ball like this !

[Unteachable]

I bought and have read the book and so far it has been bad for me. The trouble for me is getting the shaft to match the spine angle. I can't seem to do it right and hit tons of shanks every time i do it. The grip and take away seem easy and have produced some ok shots and reduced my tendency to overswing but when i try to get to the shaft across the line where he wants it in the backswing= shank city. Im obviously not doing it right.

[mitchdoc]

I don't worry about it crossing the line. In fact the link to the video earlier the guy in the before after isn't either.
I focus on the grip, a coiling turn takeaway with the hands and arms not rotating and following inside until everything feels wound up then I feel a slight shift to 1 o'clock and unwind hard. Feels like ball should go left but fairly straight flight. If I fire my hands ( part of my old swing ) or don't unwind then I get into trouble.

[green5]

This swing feels very reminiscent of my own "solution" many years ago. As a beginner, I was struggling with my hit impulse and came down steep from the top every time. I took some lessons and my local pro kept telling me to move my legs aggressively laterally to initiate my downswing, which worked at times but led to extremely inconsistant contact and still wasn't enough to prevent the steep downswing.

Frustrated, I came up with an idea of my own one day. I reckoned it was all about my lack of athelticism and I had to force my body to make the move to come from inside somehow. My solution was to put my shaft very across the line at the top, and making the swing flat. I figured there is no way I can hit from the top when the head is that far forward and my arms would have no choice but to make the transition somehow and come from inside.

The next day when I tried it on the range, voilà! The result was fantastic and instant. I'm a very high hitter and it didn't solve that flipping problem but I didn't lose much distance, and I actually could really feel that shallow angle of attack I had been seeking. It was just an amazing feeling. This carried solidly to the course and I broke 90 for the first time in my life even with a still very questionable short game. I was ecstatic.

Then everything just fell apart one day, no warning signs. I just couldn't stop duck hooking every driver I hit. Then I started shanking my irons, even short ones. I tried changing my grip and I was balooning my drives now. It was so bad that I gave up on playing golf for a while.

I'm willing to give Leadbetter some benefit of doubt since mine was obviously just a bandaid solution devised by a beginner without any proper thoughts given to technical details. However the premise and the look of this swing mtehod remind me so much of my own experience that I can't help but wonder if this is another solution that'll be a net negative in the long run.

[Denny71]

Notice a guy on the range had this on his iPad when he was hitting balls. His backswing looked great, but he lacked the ability to re route it shallow. Re read this book a 2 nd time and see a lot of strengths but also a few weaknesses. The failure for amateurs to reroute will be the sticking point here. I'm thinking the grip has to be perfect to really give you the proper range of motion needed for the slot phase

Happy this is helping many; but small areas like the grip may need a special video or proper clarification for many

[i*windows]

Wow, after 5 pages of bitching people actually started talking about the concept - got to love/hate wrx haven't you! Its an interesting looking swing, actually the backswing looks a lot like my old backswing and the loop looks like the way I used to loop it. Played some of my best golf swinging like this, but then went looking to get better and stared to mess too much with my swing. Will have to get the book and give it a whirl.

[rangersgoalie]

[quote name='Patrick Jurke' timestamp='1432606081' post='11626022']
[quote name='rangersgoalie' timestamp='1432541176' post='11621790']
Read the whole thread, and decided to jump in.
1) I am pro Lead biased
2) I worked with David in the late 80's early 90's while playing competitively
3) Just started working with Lead again
4) I teach, and play a little

In the past 7 weeks, I have changed my swing to the "A" swing. My swing going in to this, had evolved into a reasonably decent 1)club on line parallel to ground (but a little high) 2) shaft on decent angle halfway back 3) a little bit of lift of my right arm away from my body (old and fat) and then a decent look into the ball but a little closed with a lot of shaft lean through impact. Hit it solid, straight, low with little spin.
I had not worked with anybody since 1999, and decided to try to play some senior stuff, and wasn;t seeing improvement. Called Lead, not knowing anything about the "A" swing.

Spent 4 hours with him and completely changed everything. As he was explaining it to me, I was a little hesitant, but I have a lot of trust in David, he has been very good to/for me. Took some on faith, but my questions were answered by David in a way that made sense to be doing it.

Net effect. I have to think an awful lot right now, as it is still pretty new. My ball flight is significantly higher. 20 feet with 6 iron (Trackman) and 20-25 feet with driver. My stock flight is a slight fade (from low draw). Due to the swing thoughts, I am swinging at about 60% but flying my irons about 3-5 yards further. Driver is carrying further, and my accuracy is much better (finally enough spin to control things). On video, there is FAR less wasted motion from start to impact. Have had my lowest nine ever, and making many more birdies. After initial hesitance, I am all in.
[/quote]

Thanks for the post. Can you post a video of your current A-Swing?

Are you sure that it's because you're old and fat that you used to 'lift your right arm away from your body' ?
[i]Well, old with some injury history form both hockey and golf. My right shoulder has some limitations in outward rotation.[/i]
[i]Old rib cage injury on right side can limit thoracic rotation a bit. Dairy Queen limits overall rotation[/i]

Now, didn't you used to use the 'hands in, clubhead out' takeaway with a fairly vertical shaft in the backswing before the A-Swing? if so, is it now just even more pronounced? [i]I used to focus on starting rotation together, with hand moving as close to that as possible. When shaft was parallel to ground I wanted hands in line with shaft, shaft down foot line. I actually used to fight the club getting too vertical, in part due to arms moving away from body. To me, the take away in the "A" is not tot he inside, but straight back, but the "hinge" I am attempting is keeping the relationship of the club closer to my spine angle. I am also more straight up-and-down in my spine angle, where I had some spine tilt previous.[/i]

If so, does the inevitable shallowing due to the even more pronounced extremely vertical shaft in the backswing get your right arm in a better position at the top, or are you still having to arch your left wrist during start down in order to try and get the club on a shallower plane? [i]When I am able to overcome my old habit of getting my left wrist in a bowed position half way down, and can maintain the angles in my left and right hand , I am in a light years better position to deliver the club in to the ball than before. There is less "hold on" through impact, and a much freer release through the shot.[/i]

Have you historically hit it short because of a pivot that was just not very dynamic? [i]When I was playing for a living, I was a middle of the pack distance guy. I am only 5'5", so though I was very centered on the ball, never felt distance was short, pretty average.[/i]

Are you still attracted to [i]wo[/i]men?
[/quote][i] fixed[/i]

[TheInfidel]

**PART TIME PLAYERS BEWARE**

I've spent some time reading the material on the A swing online and watching a wealth of material DL has put on YouTube. I think casual golfers need to be really careful.

The most commonly repeated "selling points" to support the theory is "people have way less time to play and practice". My personal view is that if you don't have time to dedicate to the game or to further your ability then don't expect too much. I'd be very wary of a new way to swing the club for those who want to dabble with golf, but to strike it really solid when they do play. Just my take.

Golf, as DL rightly points out, is a technically complex game. If you want to spend minimal time working on effective execution then buy a bike.

I'd point most of the guys on here to the videos of Lydia Ko and her swing transition with DL, it's very concerning to put it mildly when compared with her swing 12 months ago. Athletic individuals who have good hand eye coordination will have zero need to swing the club this way. Most of DL's working examples are players with approx handicaps of 30 who with some alignment and grip advice then make "huge strides" forward. Not really a vlauable example or model for all golfers.

[chershey]

[quote name='DBU-LSU' timestamp='1432611292' post='11626550']
I bought and have read the book and so far it has been bad for me. The trouble for me is getting the shaft to match the spine angle. I can't seem to do it right and hit tons of shanks every time i do it. The grip and take away seem easy and have produced some ok shots and reduced my tendency to overswing but when i try to get to the shaft across the line where he wants it in the backswing= shank city. Im obviously not doing it right.
[/quote]I just read the book and hit several balls into the net in my back yard to get the feel of the swing. I didn't hit any shanks but I really focused on keeping my arms loose. It felt like I was crushing the ball, but when I videoed my swing I noticed the shaft wasn't crossing the line. It actually looked like a decent swing. My guess would be that you are focusing really on getting you shaft to point across the line and you are getting tight which will cause a lot of shanks. Just try to stay loose and see if that helps. The guy in the comparison video didn't have his club pointing right of the target either.

[ABG]

[quote name='TheInfidel' timestamp='1432631868' post='11627154']
**PART TIME PLAYERS BEWARE**

I've spent some time reading the material on the A swing online and watching a wealth of material DL has put on YouTube. I think casual golfers need to be really careful.

The most commonly repeated "selling points" to support the theory is "people have way less time to play and practice". My personal view is that if you don't have time to dedicate to the game or to further your ability then don't expect too much. I'd be very wary of a new way to swing the club for those who want to dabble with golf, but to strike it really solid when they do play. Just my take.

Golf, as DL rightly points out, is a technically complex game. If you want to spend minimal time working on effective execution then buy a bike.

I'd point most of the guys on here to the videos of Lydia Ko and her swing transition with DL, it's very concerning to put it mildly when compared with her swing 12 months ago. Athletic individuals who have good hand eye coordination will have zero need to swing the club this way. Most of DL's working examples are players with approx handicaps of 30 who with some alignment and grip advice then make "huge strides" forward. Not really a vlauable example or model for all golfers.
[/quote]
I've also spent lots of time reading up on the new method, including reading the e-book and watching all the videos. I agree that if you don't have time to spend on the game then don't expect good results, but that is not what DL is promoting and it is unlikely that someone who plays once a year is going to be buying this book. He's trying to simplify the golf swing for the 95% of the world's golfers who do not have elite athleticism and hand-eye coordination. He's not saying that everyone is going to be able to turn pro using this swing, but as it is a simpler, more biomechanically efficient swing, there are less places for the majority of us to go wrong, and because he's broken it down into a few bite size pieces, its easier to fix when things do start going wrong. DL is promoting doing drills every day, but the drills are short and easy and help reinforce correct muscle memory. DL makes a very good point that in spite of all the advances in teaching technology, the average player has not gotten any better, and that's because the golf swing is a very complicated thing and difficult for most people to execute effectively. This A Swing is not 'revolutionary', even though DL's marketing hype will have you believe it is. It's built on many of the teaching principals DL has been teaching for ages. The only new things are a different grip from what is traditionally taught, and a steep backswing to try and stop players coming over the top. All the other bits and pieces I've seen before in other instructionals. Most of the people who are posting here who have tried it have reported better ball striking and increased distance. I have yet to test this on the range, but my father has given it a try and has commented that it is effective, and was giving him better striking, and no, he't not a 30 handicapper who needs grip advice but a 9HC who has tried all the various swing fads over the past 35+ years he's been playing golf. I'll post my thoughts on the swing later in the week once I've had the chance to take it to the range.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='chershey' timestamp='1432645053' post='11627602']
[quote name='DBU-LSU' timestamp='1432611292' post='11626550']
I bought and have read the book and so far it has been bad for me. The trouble for me is getting the shaft to match the spine angle. I can't seem to do it right and hit tons of shanks every time i do it. The grip and take away seem easy and have produced some ok shots and reduced my tendency to overswing but when i try to get to the shaft across the line where he wants it in the backswing= shank city. Im obviously not doing it right.
[/quote]I just read the book and hit several balls into the net in my back yard to get the feel of the swing. I didn't hit any shanks but I really focused on keeping my arms loose. It felt like I was crushing the ball, but when I videoed my swing I noticed the shaft wasn't crossing the line. It actually looked like a decent swing. My guess would be that you are focusing really on getting you shaft to point across the line and you are getting tight which will cause a lot of shanks. Just try to stay loose and see if that helps. The guy in the comparison video didn't have his club pointing right of the target either.
[/quote]

So then what makes the swing "A"lternative as opposed to the way you should have been swinging the club all along ?

[ABG]

[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1432648028' post='11627842']
[quote name='chershey' timestamp='1432645053' post='11627602']
[quote name='DBU-LSU' timestamp='1432611292' post='11626550']
I bought and have read the book and so far it has been bad for me. The trouble for me is getting the shaft to match the spine angle. I can't seem to do it right and hit tons of shanks every time i do it. The grip and take away seem easy and have produced some ok shots and reduced my tendency to overswing but when i try to get to the shaft across the line where he wants it in the backswing= shank city. Im obviously not doing it right.
[/quote]I just read the book and hit several balls into the net in my back yard to get the feel of the swing. I didn't hit any shanks but I really focused on keeping my arms loose. It felt like I was crushing the ball, but when I videoed my swing I noticed the shaft wasn't crossing the line. It actually looked like a decent swing. My guess would be that you are focusing really on getting you shaft to point across the line and you are getting tight which will cause a lot of shanks. Just try to stay loose and see if that helps. The guy in the comparison video didn't have his club pointing right of the target either.
[/quote]

So then what makes the swing "A"lternative as opposed to the way you should have been swinging the club all along ?
[/quote] It's alternative from the traditional swing in the grip and the steepness of the backswing. 'Traditional' swing teaches golfers to swing the club on the same plane on the backswing and downswing; this swing is promoting what DL calls his V-plane, with ideal shaft angle on the backswing mirroring the players spine angle, and then changing angle on the downswing to what everyone would consider a traditional swing plane. The grip is also different with a strong left hand and weak right hand than is traditionally taught