Most Overrated Course

[ghost5]

This course might be a bit more relevant now that the Champions Tour stopped there, but Bear Mountain in Victoria,BC did not live up to the hype for me. Right from the minute we were "greeted" by the starter it was a letdown. It is a straight up gimmicky course in my opinion. Even if you are playing well it is hard to enjoy.

[knock it close]

This course might be a bit more relevant now that the Champions Tour stopped there, but Bear Mountain in Victoria,BC did not live up to the hype for me. Right from the minute we were "greeted" by the starter it was a letdown. It is a straight up gimmicky course in my opinion. Even if you are playing well it is hard to enjoy.

Yea I agree, its ok but its typical Nicklaus, they had a student or local special going on the two times I've played so it was fairly affordable but yea nothing special

[BEND OF THE RIVER GC]

Bay Harbor in Michigan is waaaay overrated!

[FairwayFred]

Bay Harbor in Michigan is waaaay overrated!

 

One if the great architectural misses in the history of golf. That site had limitless potential.

[FairwayFred]

I'll throw out all 4 of the highly ranked courses in Columbus OH. Muirfield Village, Scioto, Double Eagle and The Golf Club. All extremely over rated. Which makes Columbus the most over rated golf city in America IMO.

[tnord]

we've had similar discussions in our card room many times given that we're pretty interested in where the rankings fall.

 

the rankings eb and flow with the course raters themselves. some of the course raters we've had come play i've been told couldn't even finish some of the holes. point being there's obviously some very different things a 20hdcp will appreciate vs a scratch player. seems like there's been a lot of emphasis within the rankings recently for newer, more wide open courses (all the Bandon's, Sand Hills, Erin Hills, etc).

 

i think it's a conscious effort to help promote an "easier, friendlier" game to stop the bleeding of players and help attract new golfers...grow the game and all that.

 

we really could have a whole discussion about not what the rankings are, but how it happens.

[Drudersh]

we've had similar discussions in our card room many times given that we're pretty interested in where the rankings fall.

 

the rankings eb and flow with the course raters themselves. some of the course raters we've had come play i've been told couldn't even finish some of the holes. point being there's obviously some very different things a 20hdcp will appreciate vs a scratch player. seems like there's been a lot of emphasis within the rankings recently for newer, more wide open courses (all the Bandon's, Sand Hills, Erin Hills, etc).

 

i think it's a conscious effort to help promote an "easier, friendlier" game to stop the bleeding of players and help attract new golfers...grow the game and all that.

 

we really could have a whole discussion about not what the rankings are, but how it happens.

 

Just as a quick response to this theory, Erin Hills is anything but wide open, and once you get off the fairway you are dead. I played it with a friend who is an 8 handicap, he had a tough day driving the ball and consequently had a miserable time of it, even from the 6300 yrd tees. I'm sure the ranking for EH is heavily influenced by it's being chosen as a host site for the US Open though.

[tnord]

well, we probably have a skewed perspective here...but a friend of mine...also about an 8-10hdcp played there a year ago. he told me it was much more wide open than PD is, and every ball he hit into their "rough" he found and could play without a problem.

[Drudersh]

well, we probably have a skewed perspective here...but a friend of mine...also about an 8-10hdcp played there a year ago. he told me it was much more wide open than PD is, and every ball he hit into their "rough" he found and could play without a problem.

 

Yea I saw it first hand and that's not the case. You can more often than not find your ball, but you're probably hitting 9 iron at most out of wherever you find it. I played it in June when the fescue was knee high and while I only hit it in there a couple of times, when I did I had to wedge it out. He may have played it after they cut it short to bail it before winter rolls in and had a different experience. And while some holes have fairways that are pretty large like #1, #10 and #14, about half of them have narrow fairways and the landing areas are littered with bunkers or narrow in the landing area and have preventative measures to keep you honest off the tee.

[Roadking2003]

we really could have a whole discussion about not what the rankings are, but how it happens.

 

That would be interesting. I've always felt that the ratings are biased in favor of old architects. I've played a number of highly rated old courses that wouldn't make my top 100.

[FairwayFred]

well, we probably have a skewed perspective here...but a friend of mine...also about an 8-10hdcp played there a year ago. he told me it was much more wide open than PD is, and every ball he hit into their "rough" he found and could play without a problem.

 

Yea I saw it first hand and that's not the case. You can more often than not find your ball, but you're probably hitting 9 iron at most out of wherever you find it. I played it in June when the fescue was knee high and while I only hit it in there a couple of times, when I did I had to wedge it out. He may have played it after they cut it short to bail it before winter rolls in and had a different experience. And while some holes have fairways that are pretty large like #1, #10 and #14, about half of them have narrow fairways and the landing areas are littered with bunkers or narrow in the landing area and have preventative measures to keep you honest off the tee.

 

I've played both and no question Prairie Dunes is quite a bit tighter than Erin Hills and has some of the thickest nastiest native you will ever find. That said I wouldn't call Erin Hills wide open per say and I did have trouble finding balls in the "sea of fescue". Prairie Dunes is just an especially good challenge off the tee especially when the wind is blowing.

 

[flushem]

In OC in Southern California, I must say:

 

- Pelican Hills. Used to be in awesome condition. Now so so. Not worth the 300+.

- Monarch Beach. I would play for 100 but never for 200+.

- Tustin Ranch, Strawberry Farm and Oak Creek. Nice courses but not for 160+

[tnord]

well, we probably have a skewed perspective here...but a friend of mine...also about an 8-10hdcp played there a year ago. he told me it was much more wide open than PD is, and every ball he hit into their "rough" he found and could play without a problem.

Yea I saw it first hand and that's not the case. You can more often than not find your ball, but you're probably hitting 9 iron at most out of wherever you find it. I played it in June when the fescue was knee high and while I only hit it in there a couple of times, when I did I had to wedge it out. He may have played it after they cut it short to bail it before winter rolls in and had a different experience. And while some holes have fairways that are pretty large like #1, #10 and #14, about half of them have narrow fairways and the landing areas are littered with bunkers or narrow in the landing area and have preventative measures to keep you honest off the tee.

I've played both and no question Prairie Dunes is quite a bit tighter than Erin Hills and has some of the thickest nastiest native you will ever find. That said I wouldn't call Erin Hills wide open per say and I did have trouble finding balls in the "sea of fescue". Prairie Dunes is just an especially good challenge off the tee especially when the wind is blowing.

 

it was the worst i've ever seen it this last year, and longtime locals said the same. everybody stopped even looking around august. much of it was six feet or higher and you couldn't get it out even if you tried. it was burned off this spring and growth retardant is sprayed as well. it was just a REALLY hot and wet summer.

[kiclub690]

It's been brought up recently, mine is the Ocean Course. I just don't think it's that great but maybe Imnjust used to it.

 

The front doesn't have much to it and is really wide open with only one hole (if that) on the ocean. The back has two of basically the same holes within the first four. The views are great, I concede that. If the wind blows yes it's hard but so are all the other courses on that island. You can legit hit it anywhere out there and find it. Don't know why but it just isn't that great in my opinion.

[Petunia Sprinkle]

Augusta. Place is a dump unless it's April.

[CMCSGolf]

Pasatiiempo is a little bit over-rated. It was nice and I enjoyed my round but did not think it was close to being as good as its reputation.

 

It's almost heresy to claim that on this board, but I agree. It's a really nice public course, don't get me wrong, but it gets more kudos that it deserves. Glad to hear it's back in good shape after recent water shortages, but you can't remove the surrounding neighborhood from that course.

 

I disagree with this, as I think Pasatiempo is a great course. However, I can see why it might be tough to appreciate. Especially if you only had the chance to play it once. I believe a lot of the greatness is in the greens, which can never be fully experienced in one play, and the near perfect placements of bunkers to dictate strategy. I may be wrong and different people prefer different things in a course, but I would be surprised if you didn't like the course more after a few more rounds.

[2ball]

Torrey Pines South and North Courses.

 

In OC in Southern California, I must say:

 

- Pelican Hills. Used to be in awesome condition. Now so so. Not worth the 300+.

- Monarch Beach. I would play for 100 but never for 200+.

- Tustin Ranch, Strawberry Farm and Oak Creek. Nice courses but not for 160+

 

I was going to post anything in Orange County

[justwellsy]

I do not agree with either course at Torrey Pines being overrated. I really enjoyed both and thought they were magnificent.

[justwellsy]

Torrey Pines South and North Courses.

In OC in Southern California, I must say:

 

- Pelican Hills. Used to be in awesome condition. Now so so. Not worth the 300+.

- Monarch Beach. I would play for 100 but never for 200+.

- Tustin Ranch, Strawberry Farm and Oak Creek. Nice courses but not for 160+

 

I was going to post anything in Orange County

 

Absolutely Monarch Beach... such a forced design on limited land, which is usually the problem with courses in the area

[BillyZ2]

I do not agree with either course at Torrey Pines being overrated. I really enjoyed both and thought they were magnificent.

I played Torrey Pines some years back and it was a nice course but I didn't think it was that great of a course. I wonder how people would assess a particular course if it weren't a pga stop course with the reputation that brings. But maybe that is part of what makes a course so great to some people is that it is a stop on the PGA?

[adamjstl]

Troon North (Monument) for me. The only thing I remember about it was blasting a drive down the middle and hitting that f---ing rock 2/3 of the way up and having my ball fly straight left.

 

Same. Hit the rock off the tee, and felt the course was nice, but nothing special.

[adamjstl]

The problem with these threads comes down to THIS. Even if you played Bethpage, or Doral, or Sawgrass, you did NOT play the golf course that hosted a PGA Tour event or a Major Championship........I grew up on The Black, played it , I cant even tell you how many times. That course for the US Open was NOT the course I grew up playing. I spent 4 years playing #2 when I was at Bragg, and it was NOTHING LIKE the US Open setup......Fairways alone were 20 yards narrower, greens brutal. Sawgrass is another example. Greens 4-5 feet faster on the stimp for the Players, fairways rolled, 20' narrower. While I respect EVERYONES opinion, we can't judge the iconic courses based on the off-season conditions. Trust me, I've played several the week after a Tour event, and nobody maintains Tour conditions year round......

 

True story: NO ONE maintains tour-level conditions all the time. Even the best clubs are at least always in good to really good shape, but they only peak 4 or 5 times a season.

[TravelingGolfSticks]

The problem with these threads comes down to THIS. Even if you played Bethpage, or Doral, or Sawgrass, you did NOT play the golf course that hosted a PGA Tour event or a Major Championship........I grew up on The Black, played it , I cant even tell you how many times. That course for the US Open was NOT the course I grew up playing. I spent 4 years playing #2 when I was at Bragg, and it was NOTHING LIKE the US Open setup......Fairways alone were 20 yards narrower, greens brutal. Sawgrass is another example. Greens 4-5 feet faster on the stimp for the Players, fairways rolled, 20' narrower. While I respect EVERYONES opinion, we can't judge the iconic courses based on the off-season conditions. Trust me, I've played several the week after a Tour event, and nobody maintains Tour conditions year round......

 

True story: NO ONE maintains tour-level conditions all the time. Even the best clubs are at least always in good to really good shape, but they only peak 4 or 5 times a season.

 

I've played the Golf Club of Houston Tournament Course (formaely Redstone Golf Club) before and also in late summer. I would tell you it's the nicest course in Houston from Jan-April but wouldn't pay $20 bucks to play it in late summer. Just a totally different course when they overseed it.

[SilverBullets]

The problem with these threads comes down to THIS. Even if you played Bethpage, or Doral, or Sawgrass, you did NOT play the golf course that hosted a PGA Tour event or a Major Championship........I grew up on The Black, played it , I cant even tell you how many times. That course for the US Open was NOT the course I grew up playing. I spent 4 years playing #2 when I was at Bragg, and it was NOTHING LIKE the US Open setup......Fairways alone were 20 yards narrower, greens brutal. Sawgrass is another example. Greens 4-5 feet faster on the stimp for the Players, fairways rolled, 20' narrower. While I respect EVERYONES opinion, we can't judge the iconic courses based on the off-season conditions. Trust me, I've played several the week after a Tour event, and nobody maintains Tour conditions year round......

 

True story: NO ONE maintains tour-level conditions all the time. Even the best clubs are at least always in good to really good shape, but they only peak 4 or 5 times a season.

 

Muirfield Village is an exception to this rule. The only real difference between tournament week and a random Saturday in August is the rough is not as long and the greens aren't necessarily like putting on glass. Although they are still the fastest greens, by far and away, I have ever played. And it doesn't matter if I am playing the course in July or October, or if it's wet or dry. They are ALWAYS quick.

[SilverBullets]

Troon North (Monument) for me. The only thing I remember about it was blasting a drive down the middle and hitting that f---ing rock 2/3 of the way up and having my ball fly straight left.

 

Same. Hit the rock off the tee, and felt the course was nice, but nothing special.

 

haha just played 36 at Pinnacle and felt the same way. It was very nice, well maintained, but the layout was very 'blah' for me. It felt like they had 1 design for a par 4, 1 for a par 3 and 1 for a par 5. Every hole just kind of felt the same.

[SilverBullets]

I'll throw out all 4 of the highly ranked courses in Columbus OH. Muirfield Village, Scioto, Double Eagle and The Golf Club. All extremely over rated. Which makes Columbus the most over rated golf city in America IMO.

 

Have you played all 4? I get Double Eagle being overrated and even Scioto. Scioto, I feel, is mostly ranked high because it's an old school Donald Ross design and has a lot of history. But the course itself is kind of your typical Donald Ross track just super well maintained. I agree, it's rated a bit high. I also don't really get Double Eagle being that high (really being on the list at all). I think it's just the exclusivity of the place. But it doesn't have any real memorable holes and it plays like a nice long walk in the middle of nowhere.

 

Now Village and The Golf Club. I actually firmly believe Village is a masterful design. There isn't a ton to the course at face value but the more you play it and the more time you spend there the more you understand the nuances of the course and design. It's a course that absolutely rewards well executed shots and absolutely penalizes poor positioning and poor execution. And it's done with no gimmicks. No crazy trickery, no crazy water features or bunkers/trees/water sitting in the middle of the fairway. The only hole I question on the design is the tee shot on #5. But beyond that it, IMO, is a truly great design which will test every club and every shot in your bag. Not to mention, they very well may have the best greens (and best conditioned course for that matter) in the entire country. Certainly the best I have played (I have played 15 or so top 100 including 4 top 10 courses).

[ManBearPig98]

Bully Pulpit in Medora is the most overrated $100 course I have played.

[C. Spackler]

When rating a course, what do WRXers look for and how do they rank:

1. Facilities (clubhouse, range, pro shop, bar & restaurant)
   
2. Course condition (grass quality, grass coverage, bunkering, green speeds and quality)
   
3. Course design (layout, strategy, risk v reward, difficulty)
   
4. Welcome (customer service essentially)
   
5. Merchandise and Memorabilia
   

 

I have a buddy who is obsessed with #1 and couldn't care less about #3 which is madness to me.

 

I've played a few courses in continental Europe recently and when compared against high ranking courses in the UK & Ireland they were garbage. I think we were paying a subsidy to play in shorts in the sun, only the sun didn't shine!

 

 

 

#2 & #3, hands down. I've played courses that had unbelievably decadent accommodation's, top notch facilities with a goat track for a course...but I've played meticulously maintained, tough, well designed courses with trailers for the "clubhouse." I don't need someone to greet me and take my clubs, clean them after the rounds, etc.....sure it might add to the experience of a great course but will do nothing to make a crappy course better.

[C. Spackler]

Wolf creek in Mesquite, NV. Its a beautiful course to look at, I just did not enjoy my round at all. Very gimmicky

I have to disagree with you here as I was extremely impressed with the course and conditions. Nothing but dessert in sight minus the golf course and HUGE elevation changes all 18. I couldn't believe someone could even design a course in that location. Plus you get to watch skydivers coming down with a school being right next to the course.

 

So, your argument against a guy who called the course gimmicky is to talk about wild elevation changes and skydivers? Not to mention ice cream and cake as far as the eye can see...

 

Dormie Club gets my vote for most overrated among well-known courses I've played. A good course no doubt, but it gets pretty sloggish from 7-13 and I just don't love playing it as a result. The ebb and flow of the holes feels off - even though I like all the holes in concept, the course overall feels weaker than the sum of its parts.

 

Since mountain courses are my favorite type of course...um, yeah I will mention elevation changes. An east coaster going to a Nevada course is expecting flat desert and gets something completely different; and it is natural for the most part. If you prefer flat courses this is not for you but I consider flat to equal BORING.

 

I like challenges and the course is extremely hard. Why UCbananaboy didn't like it is beyond me but to each there own. He mentioned the uphill par 3 which is hard but forgot to mention the 3-4 downhill par 3's which are extremely beautiful with streams and flower beds.

 

I mentioned sky divers because how often do you honestly see this. Does this make the course "gimmicky?" I thought it was just a rare sight on a golf course. Sorry if they would be too distracting for you but I'm guessing you also consider the grass growing to be too loud.

I tell people all the time it's designed to attract people who play golf not golfers. The kind of people who love taking pictures while they play instead of playing golf.

 

 

Why cant it be both? I get it, Wolf Creek will never host a professional event and is over-rated when it comes to the top 100 but it is what it is, a unique experience. I tell people that if you're in the area, its a must play, if only for the things you mentioned.

[Roadking2003]

There ya go! Whatever the green fee was - I've forgotten - it was a damn sight better deal than the 'we looooove North American tourists' gougefest that is Kingsbarns. I really like the Old Course and I'd take 11, 12, 14, 17 as examples of a par 3, short 4, par 5, and long 4 up against most other courses. That said, I can appreciate that people may not like it for some valid reasons.

 

Heck I think Spyglass is overrated which most people seem to love, as bar the first 4 holes, you can play similar courses for a fraction of the price on the RTJ Trail in Alabama and surely elsewhere RTJ has laid out a course.

 

At least we are in fortunate enough positions in life to be able to go play them and see for ourselves. One thing I don't like though, is people who slate a course, never having played it. For instance, I'll never get the chance to say how much I truly dislike Doral and think it's overrated ;)

 

Why would somebody rate a course they have never played? Strange.

 

And BTW, they all love "North American Tourists". Otherwise, they would have to lower their green fees.