Most Overrated Course

[Frohlich]

Not to get off topic, but to you guys that occasionally come to Alabama to play the RTJ Trail... Next time make sure to stop in Sylacauga at FarmLinks (you probably already have). Just an incredible place. Here is the view from the 5th hole, just to give you an idea of the landscape.

 

I have been down to the trail twice and never played Farmlinks but have read great things. There is a decent chance that is where we are heading again next May for our golf trip and I told my buddies we are going to pencil in 36 at Farmlinks (and Ross Bridge...my personal fav on the trail).

[coreyhr]

Not to get off topic, but to you guys that occasionally come to Alabama to play the RTJ Trail... Next time make sure to stop in Sylacauga at FarmLinks (you probably already have). Just an incredible place. Here is the view from the 5th hole, just to give you an idea of the landscape.

 

I have been down to the trail twice and never played Farmlinks but have read great things. There is a decent chance that is where we are heading again next May for our golf trip and I told my buddies we are going to pencil in 36 at Farmlinks (and Ross Bridge...my personal fav on the trail).

 

I can't recommend it enough, a blast to play and as well manicured as any course you'll find. Look in to the cottages as well, can stay the night before your rounds. The cottages have their own private putting green. The 36 route is the way to go. You get lunch and all inclusive snacks and drinks all day (non-alcoholic).

[smashdn]

I looked back a few pages and didn't see Valhalla. I nominate it as over rated. Good conditions but the views are broken by some unattractive scenery. Namely a slew of high tension power lines. It is just a ho-hum course that has hosted some nice tournaments.

[EKELLY]

Not to get off topic, but to you guys that occasionally come to Alabama to play the RTJ Trail... Next time make sure to stop in Sylacauga at FarmLinks (you probably already have). Just an incredible place. Here is the view from the 5th hole, just to give you an idea of the landscape.

 

I have been down to the trail twice and never played Farmlinks but have read great things. There is a decent chance that is where we are heading again next May for our golf trip and I told my buddies we are going to pencil in 36 at Farmlinks (and Ross Bridge...my personal fav on the trail).

Damn!!.........

[cdnglf]

Harding Park is the most overpriced course I've ever played.

[2putttom]

Harding Park is the most overpriced course I've ever played.

I paid $52.00 for 18 last week

[cdnglf]

Harding Park is the most overpriced course I've ever played.

I paid $52.00 for 18 last week

 

Its a decent deal for locals.

[2putttom]

Harding Park is the most overpriced course I've ever played.

I paid $52.00 for 18 last week

 

Its a decent deal for locals.

Ya I have that goin for me. Were ya from?

[cdnglf]

Harding Park is the most overpriced course I've ever played.

I paid $52.00 for 18 last week

 

Its a decent deal for locals.

Ya I have that goin for me. Were ya from?

 

Western Canada.

I played Harding about 7 or 8 years ago. I see the weekend rate is now $177.00 for non-locals... yikes.

[dthrift33]

Oakland Hills, and Hazeltine. Completely overrated.

 

I looked back a few pages and didn't see Valhalla. I nominate it as over rated. Good conditions but the views are broken by some unattractive scenery. Namely a slew of high tension power lines. It is just a ho-hum course that has hosted some nice tournaments.

 

100% agreed.

[gcp07]

PGA National where they play the Honda Classic is very underwhelming. Without the bleachers, the bear trap is an extremely vanilla par 3. Save you money unless you have some sort of emotional attachment to it. Then hate life for the $400 round.

[DoubleorQuits]

Most Raynor courses.

[raynorfan1]

Most Raynor courses.

 

Sadly true. One of the unfortunate aspects of many of Raynor's signature design elements is that they are not easy to maintain. Even many of his best courses - Yeamans Hall, Camargo, Shoreacres, et. al. - fell into states of disrepair at some point in the past 100 years. The big greens, deep bunkers, and complex approaches are just very difficult to keep in correct working order. Often, you come away from a Raynor course thinking: "this thing has all the bones of a great golf course, but it just isn't quite right." It's usually that atrophy and evolving maintenance / conditioning standards have eroded the course. Bunkers that were designed to be greenside are now 5 yards off the green; the fairway approach to a Biarritz is overwatered, preventing the low roller; etc., etc.

 

Raynor himself probably contributed to these problems by persisting in (to some degree) forcing his template onto land that wasn't always well suited to it. On the other hand, his reputation as an architect has certainly improved over the past 25 years, and more courses are being renovated back to their "original" standards (to the degree these are understood). So hopefully we will see more of his courses deserve the reputation that his name brings.

[linkerpan]

PGA National where they play the Honda Classic is very underwhelming. Without the bleachers, the bear trap is an extremely vanilla par 3. Save you money unless you have some sort of emotional attachment to it. Then hate life for the $400 round.

 

I played there in June. $625 for all you can play, 3 nights w/breakfast on a villa. I'd do it again 100 times. The bear trap set of holes is very hard.

[jptruck]

Most Raynor courses.

 

Sadly true. One of the unfortunate aspects of many of Raynor's signature design elements is that they are not easy to maintain. Even many of his best courses - Yeamans Hall, Camargo, Shoreacres, et. al. - fell into states of disrepair at some point in the past 100 years. The big greens, deep bunkers, and complex approaches are just very difficult to keep in correct working order. Often, you come away from a Raynor course thinking: "this thing has all the bones of a great golf course, but it just isn't quite right." It's usually that atrophy and evolving maintenance / conditioning standards have eroded the course. Bunkers that were designed to be greenside are now 5 yards off the green; the fairway approach to a Biarritz is overwatered, preventing the low roller; etc., etc.

 

Raynor himself probably contributed to these problems by persisting in (to some degree) forcing his template onto land that wasn't always well suited to it. On the other hand, his reputation as an architect has certainly improved over the past 25 years, and more courses are being renovated back to their "original" standards (to the degree these are understood). So hopefully we will see more of his courses deserve the reputation that his name brings.

 

There have been plenty of bland courses created for the sake of "ease of maintenance." Give me any Raynor, any day, over just about any course. Are you kidding me: Shoreacres, Yeamans, Carmargo, Fishers, Yale. . .goodness, they are the greats. Should never be mentioned on the pages with some of these dogs.

[EKELLY]

PGA National where they play the Honda Classic is very underwhelming. Without the bleachers, the bear trap is an extremely vanilla par 3. Save you money unless you have some sort of emotional attachment to it. Then hate life for the $400 round.

Still just a 200 yard shot from the tips........18 just a typical risk/reward 2nd shot.......

[shotmark]

This may be sac religious to some but Torrey and Spanish Bay, IMO.

 

Spanish Bay was the epitoMe of target golf and that is not my favorite, but I thoroughly enjoyed Spyglass on the other hand.

 

Now Torrey, IMO, was a bunch of utterly forgettable holes with 2 or 3 scenic holes thrown in. If it wasn't on the coast would it be talked about at all?

 

I thought Spanish bay was pretty weak as well. Then again I played it just before playing Spyglass, Pebble and Cypress so ultimately it just got completely forgotten haha.

 

For the poster who said Jack courses.. I completely agree. It's probably why I hate the Ohio State course which he redesigned. The only exception I have is Muirfield Village. That is a excellent golf course. It's not just a masterpiece for him, it's simply a masterpiece for any golf design.

 

Wasn't Muirfield Village designed by Desmond Muirhead rather than Nicklaus?

[statmagic]

Not to get off topic, but to you guys that occasionally come to Alabama to play the RTJ Trail... Next time make sure to stop in Sylacauga at FarmLinks (you probably already have). Just an incredible place. Here is the view from the 5th hole, just to give you an idea of the landscape.

 

I have been down to the trail twice and never played Farmlinks but have read great things. There is a decent chance that is where we are heading again next May for our golf trip and I told my buddies we are going to pencil in 36 at Farmlinks (and Ross Bridge...my personal fav on the trail).

 

I can't recommend it enough, a blast to play and as well manicured as any course you'll find. Look in to the cottages as well, can stay the night before your rounds. The cottages have their own private putting green. The 36 route is the way to go. You get lunch and all inclusive snacks and drinks all day (non-alcoholic).

 

 

Farmlinks is outstanding. Also a nice quiet getaway. Excellent service too. Love it!

[IcemanYVR]

 

Wasn't Muirfield Village designed by Desmond Muirhead rather than Nicklaus?

 

Muirfield Village was designed by Jack Nicklaus and collaborated with Muirhead. MV has Jack's fingerprints all over it as he is constantly adjusting and tweaking the course for members, pros, and even the crowds.

 

Here's a pretty article from the New York Times a few years back.

 

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/09/30/sports/golf/muirfield-village-the-course-that-jack-keeps-building.html

[Drudersh]

Most Raynor courses.

 

Sadly true. One of the unfortunate aspects of many of Raynor's signature design elements is that they are not easy to maintain. Even many of his best courses - Yeamans Hall, Camargo, Shoreacres, et. al. - fell into states of disrepair at some point in the past 100 years. The big greens, deep bunkers, and complex approaches are just very difficult to keep in correct working order. Often, you come away from a Raynor course thinking: "this thing has all the bones of a great golf course, but it just isn't quite right." It's usually that atrophy and evolving maintenance / conditioning standards have eroded the course. Bunkers that were designed to be greenside are now 5 yards off the green; the fairway approach to a Biarritz is overwatered, preventing the low roller; etc., etc.

 

Raynor himself probably contributed to these problems by persisting in (to some degree) forcing his template onto land that wasn't always well suited to it. On the other hand, his reputation as an architect has certainly improved over the past 25 years, and more courses are being renovated back to their "original" standards (to the degree these are understood). So hopefully we will see more of his courses deserve the reputation that his name brings.

 

There have been plenty of bland courses created for the sake of "ease of maintenance." Give me any Raynor, any day, over just about any course. Are you kidding me: Shoreacres, Yeamans, Carmargo, Fishers, Yale. . .goodness, they are the greats. Should never be mentioned on the pages with some of these dogs.

 

Just to play devil's advocate, Yeaman's just lost all their greens. They are being completely re-done and the course is essentially unplayable for about 12-16 months.

[raynorfan1]

Just to play devil's advocate, Yeaman's just lost all their greens. They are being completely re-done and the course is essentially unplayable for about 12-16 months.

 

I believe they were damaged last winter and were re-done over the summer. It should only take 6 - 8 weeks to rebuild them to playable condition, in any case.

[Drudersh]

Just to play devil's advocate, Yeaman's just lost all their greens. They are being completely re-done and the course is essentially unplayable for about 12-16 months.

 

I believe they were damaged last winter and were re-done over the summer. It should only take 6 - 8 weeks to rebuild them to playable condition, in any case.

 

I have a friend who is a member and was just down a few weeks ago, they are nowhere near done and apparently it's a bit of a mess down there at the moment.

 

Edit: Just spoke with him. Course is currently mostly playable with some temp greens and the plan is to fully shut down in May 2017-Oct. 2017 and install 18 all new greens.

[jptruck]

Just to play devil's advocate, Yeaman's just lost all their greens. They are being completely re-done and the course is essentially unplayable for about 12-16 months.

 

I believe they were damaged last winter and were re-done over the summer. It should only take 6 - 8 weeks to rebuild them to playable condition, in any case.

 

I have a friend who is a member and was just down a few weeks ago, they are nowhere near done and apparently it's a bit of a mess down there at the moment.

 

Edit: Just spoke with him. Course is currently mostly playable with some temp greens and the plan is to fully shut down in May 2017-Oct. 2017 and install 18 all new greens.

 

Yeamans is a "winter" membership course. It's playable to members and summer members this time of year, but it's set up for prime play every year from October to May. What you are saying seems only slightly out of the norm. They like it brown there, anyway.

[Drudersh]

Just to play devil's advocate, Yeaman's just lost all their greens. They are being completely re-done and the course is essentially unplayable for about 12-16 months.

 

I believe they were damaged last winter and were re-done over the summer. It should only take 6 - 8 weeks to rebuild them to playable condition, in any case.

 

I have a friend who is a member and was just down a few weeks ago, they are nowhere near done and apparently it's a bit of a mess down there at the moment.

 

Edit: Just spoke with him. Course is currently mostly playable with some temp greens and the plan is to fully shut down in May 2017-Oct. 2017 and install 18 all new greens.

 

Yeamans is a "winter" membership course. It's playable to members and summer members this time of year, but it's set up for prime play every year from October to May. What you are saying seems only slightly out of the norm. They like it brown there, anyway.

 

This is not a slightly out of the norm procedure. They are literally tearing down every green and starting from scratch.

[jptruck]

Just to play devil's advocate, Yeaman's just lost all their greens. They are being completely re-done and the course is essentially unplayable for about 12-16 months.

 

I believe they were damaged last winter and were re-done over the summer. It should only take 6 - 8 weeks to rebuild them to playable condition, in any case.

 

I have a friend who is a member and was just down a few weeks ago, they are nowhere near done and apparently it's a bit of a mess down there at the moment.

 

Edit: Just spoke with him. Course is currently mostly playable with some temp greens and the plan is to fully shut down in May 2017-Oct. 2017 and install 18 all new greens.

 

Yeamans is a "winter" membership course. It's playable to members and summer members this time of year, but it's set up for prime play every year from October to May. What you are saying seems only slightly out of the norm. They like it brown there, anyway.

 

This is not a slightly out of the norm procedure. They are literally tearing down every green and starting from scratch.

 

I got ya. That's not uncommon at Yeamans, though. They been rebuilding that course, on and off, for the last 15-20 years. So, now it's time for new greens. No biggie. You may be surprised at the change, but I don't think you're going to see anyone rushing to drop their membership.

 

Your original post said they would be shut down for 12-16 months. I highly doubt that to be true, and I bet the course is in fine shape for play this winter. I would never judge that place by it's condition over the summer in 90+ degree Charleston.

[Drudersh]

 

 

I got ya. That's not uncommon at Yeamans, though. They been rebuilding that course, on and off, for the last 15-20 years. So, now it's time for new greens. No biggie. You may be surprised at the change, but I don't think you're going to see anyone rushing to drop their membership.

 

Your original post said they would be shut down for 12-16 months. I highly doubt that to be true, and I bet the course is in fine shape for play this winter. I would never judge that place by it's condition over the summer in 90+ degree Charleston.

 

I said "essentially unplayable" which it currently is and has been for some time with mostly temporary greens being put into play this spring, which will continue until the new greens are completed. The course will be completely unplayable during the work. So spring 2016 through fall 2017 is 16 months.

 

I also never said anything about anyone dropping their memberships and I am sure very few if any are leaving the club. I was simply adding to a point made about Raynor courses having to undergo significant maintenance.

[jptruck]

I got ya. That's not uncommon at Yeamans, though. They been rebuilding that course, on and off, for the last 15-20 years. So, now it's time for new greens. No biggie. You may be surprised at the change, but I don't think you're going to see anyone rushing to drop their membership.

 

Your original post said they would be shut down for 12-16 months. I highly doubt that to be true, and I bet the course is in fine shape for play this winter. I would never judge that place by it's condition over the summer in 90+ degree Charleston.

 

I said "essentially unplayable" which it currently is and has been for some time with mostly temporary greens being put into play this spring, which will continue until the new greens are completed. The course will be completely unplayable during the work. So spring 2016 through fall 2017 is 16 months.

 

I also never said anything about anyone dropping their memberships and I am sure very few if any are leaving the club. I was simply adding to a point made about Raynor courses having to undergo significant maintenance.

 

If you are looking for an example of a Raynor work costing extra to maintain, Yeamans is not it. It's tees, greens and fairways are usually in great shape, but everything off to the sides would be described as "scruffy." Their rough is a mix of sand, pine straw and bermuda clumps. Heck, for years they didn't even rake their bunkers. They were basically sand-colored concrete.

 

The course is usually kept very firm and very fast, meaning it would never be mistaken for Augusta National. My guess is they are switching to a grass that'll allow them to keep the greens in the condition they like, firm and fast.

[jerebear21]

The guy that stated any raynor's course.... C'MON MAN. You want an over rated course? WOLF CREEK, STREAMSONG BLUE, SHADOW CREEK,

 

I've never played a raynor course I haven't liked, even with average conditions.

[FairwayFred]

The guy that stated any raynor's course.... C'MON MAN. You want an over rated course? WOLF CREEK, STREAMSONG BLUE, SHADOW CREEK,

 

I've never played a raynor course I haven't liked, even with average conditions.

 

+1

[DoubleorQuits]

The guy that stated any raynor's course.... C'MON MAN. You want an over rated course? WOLF CREEK, STREAMSONG BLUE, SHADOW CREEK,

 

I've never played a raynor course I haven't liked, even with average conditions.

 

I didn't say I didn't like Raynor courses, I do. Just think many are overrated. Yale, YH and Chicago are among my favorite courses. NGLA is a fun day. Fishers is a pretty place. Just not convinced every template course is a top100.