Most Overrated Course

EKELLY · August 23, 2016

I have two for you.

Tobacco Road - Mickey Mouse is the only way I can describe it. The worst of the holes was par 5 on the back that had sand hills on both sides with a 10 yard opening to the green. The green was so hard that it doesn't hold anything either. At $90 in the Summer it's probably still worth it though.

Bethpage Black - Played it this week. At $135 it's still good value but it's not the end all be all of golf courses that so many people make it out to be. Good condition overall, greens deceptively fast, not much break in them. Maybe in the Summer when the fescue is grown in it's better? 18th hole is the worst finishing hole in major championship golf.
I think if the bethpage greens had more character it might have been the greatest course on earth I read that for financial reasons tillinghast didn't finish the greens, and they hired some unheralded local firm to finish and they just pretty much made them pancakes.
Not quite accurate on Black greens. Go read the archives of GD. They've done multiple in depth articles on the design & architecture of Black.

They believe the local superintendent Joseph H. Burbeck actually designed the course and Tillinghast was only consulted.
Of course it didn't hurt that burbeck's son also bethpage superintendent wrote GD alerting them.
http://www.golfdiges...beckwhitten2002

However another author contradicts Whitten & describes why the greens are shaped so:
http://www.tillingha...page_Black.html

This is probably the most researched article with complete time lines & green design
http://golfclubatlas...ream-article-2/

Pretty sure the USGA rotated the 9's for the Open......And trust me, you did NOT play the course that hosted the US Open.........they narrowed the fairways 25 yards, and it was brutal........LOL

az2au · August 23, 2016

After the refurb has to be #2. So overpriced borders on fraud.

I have the exact opposite view. Thought it was wildly overrated before. Think it is excellent now.

golfheaven69 · August 24, 2016

^^

Respect your opinion. Mine is so different. Hit it out if the fairway and you are in a weed farm.

Chilidog · August 25, 2016

Weed farm=natural area or the way the course was originally designed.

Roadking2003 · August 25, 2016

After the refurb has to be #2. So overpriced borders on fraud. ��

I agree. I'll never go back.

Roadking2003 · August 25, 2016

Weed farm=natural area or the way the course was originally designed.

Yes, the natural areas are consistent with the original design. The greens are not. Why do so many people like to go back to an original design for just part of the course?

ram01002 · August 25, 2016

Weed farm=natural area or the way the course was originally designed.

Yes, the natural areas are consistent with the original design. The greens are not. Why do so many people like to go back to an original design for just part of the course?

Why do you say the greens are not the original design? What am I missing? I played it a couple of months ago and thought it was phenomenal.

duffer987 · August 25, 2016

Weed farm=natural area or the way the course was originally designed.

Yes, the natural areas are consistent with the original design. The greens are not. Why do so many people like to go back to an original design for just part of the course?

Why do you say the greens are not the original design? What am I missing? I played it a couple of months ago and thought it was phenomenal.

Here's a thread on it, going over the various theories :)

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,58907.0/nowap.html

ram01002 · August 25, 2016

It was set up so good when we played it - - it was the week of the north south amateur. Absolutely complete test of golf. Had to drive it in the fairway, had to hit greens in reg, and couldn't get sloppy with the putter. I'm not sure what more you would want out of a championship test.

duffer987 · August 25, 2016

It was set up so good when we played it - - it was the week of the north south amateur. Absolutely complete test of golf. Had to drive it in the fairway, had to hit greens in reg, and couldn't get sloppy with the putter. I'm not sure what more you would want out of a championship test.

Good to hear you enjoyed it, as did we when we played it :)

I was just providing a link to answer your question. I don't think #2 is overrated... price is always debatable though.

I also think if someone hasn't played the course in its current incarnation, or at all, their opinion on it doesn't have much merit.

ram01002 · August 25, 2016

It was set up so good when we played it - - it was the week of the north south amateur. Absolutely complete test of golf. Had to drive it in the fairway, had to hit greens in reg, and couldn't get sloppy with the putter. I'm not sure what more you would want out of a championship test.

Good to hear you enjoyed it, as did we when we played it :)
I was just providing a link to answer your question. I don't think #2 is overrated... price is always debatable though.
I also think if someone hasn't played the course in its current incarnation, or at all, their opinion on it doesn't have much merit.

Thanks for the link - interesting discussion!

Roadking2003 · August 25, 2016

Weed farm=natural area or the way the course was originally designed.

Yes, the natural areas are consistent with the original design. The greens are not. Why do so many people like to go back to an original design for just part of the course?

Why do you say the greens are not the original design? What am I missing? I played it a couple of months ago and thought it was phenomenal.

The greens were designed for Stimp speeds of 5 - 6. Now they are 12+. That's totally different than the original design.

scottc25 · August 25, 2016

What is the non-guest rate for #2? I have a friend in Raleigh and one year we are gonna do this.

ram01002 · August 25, 2016

Weed farm=natural area or the way the course was originally designed.

Yes, the natural areas are consistent with the original design. The greens are not. Why do so many people like to go back to an original design for just part of the course?

Why do you say the greens are not the original design? What am I missing? I played it a couple of months ago and thought it was phenomenal.

The greens were designed for Stimp speeds of 5 - 6. Now they are 12+. That's totally different than the original design.

13 at Augusta wasn't drawn up so Bubba could hit gap wedge for his 2nd shot . . . Doesn't mean it isn't brilliant design.

kevinricci · August 30, 2016

I am going to go with Pinehurst #2....and that is not in anyway influenced by what I did or didn't pay to get on :)

It looks great on TV and in photos. It was great fun being there watching the women play there at the US Open but...when you stand on the tees there's just something that does not fit my eye. It's not that it's a real tough driving course but for me I just did not like or enjoy the sight lines. A lot of times I stood on the tee and thought "meh". Add the fact that the greens contours are famously border-line silly it just added up to a deeply uninspiring and unenjoyable day. I am probably not going to get many to agree but I would say say that Pinehurst #8,and Dormie Club are better courses. Maybe even #4 as well,,,

Honorable local mention goes to Salem CC. Bar 2 or 3 holes it's totally underwhelming and over-rated.

I disagree with you about Salem CC. It has a great flow and no two holes are alike. I often rate a course by imagining I were a member and played all my golf here, would it be a course I could play every day? Salem passes that test.

coreyhr · August 31, 2016

A lot of higher profile courses listed I see, some surprising ones at that. I'll throw a name out that is more for the common man. Living in Alabama, I've never understood why so many people flock to the Robert Trent Jones golf trail. It's a great value for the condition of the courses, but some of the layouts are maddening.

chippa13 · August 31, 2016

I'm curious to hear what is so "maddening" about RTJ Grand National.

duffer987 · August 31, 2016

I'm curious to hear what is so "maddening" about RTJ Grand National.

I wouldn't say maddening, but they can be repetitive.

We really enjoyed Capitol Hill, Grand National less so, but I wouldn't call GN overrated. Very good value there and a good "offseason" destination for Northern golfers :)

EKELLY · August 31, 2016

After the refurb has to be #2. So overpriced borders on fraud. ��
I have the exact opposite view. Thought it was wildly overrated before. Think it is excellent now.

Easy golf course now....

teejaywhy · August 31, 2016

After the refurb has to be #2. So overpriced borders on fraud. ��
I have the exact opposite view. Thought it was wildly overrated before. Think it is excellent now.
Easy golf course now....

I call BS.

BEND OF THE RIVER GC · August 31, 2016

ARCADIA BLUFFS in Northern Michigan is the most overrated course I've ever played. Views are great but course is just good. Nothing more.

Just like Fishers Island!

Can you take me there so I can decide for myself???

knock it close · August 31, 2016

ARCADIA BLUFFS in Northern Michigan is the most overrated course I've ever played. Views are great but course is just good. Nothing more.

Just like Fishers Island!

Can you take me there so I can decide for myself???

Same..

VOX · August 31, 2016

To each their own. If I could only play one course for the rest of my life it would be Fishers Island and I have played at least 15 of the top 20.

coreyhr · August 31, 2016

I'm curious to hear what is so "maddening" about RTJ Grand National.

I wouldn't say maddening, but they can be repetitive.
We really enjoyed Capitol Hill, Grand National less so, but I wouldn't call GN overrated. Very good value there and a good "offseason" destination for Northern golfers :)

This is probably a much better term. Just don't enjoy the fairway bunker placement and the fact that almost every green is elevated on the trail courses. There are certainly a few stops that are much better than the others. In particular, Fighting Joe and Ross Bridge are actually fantastic. I don't think it's a coincidence that those are the two newest additions. Like I said, it's probably a product of me growing up here. I could see how it would be a fun trip with buddies to start at the top of the state and work your way down. A lot of golf at an incredibly reasonable price with the trail card.

Frohlich · August 31, 2016

I have made two separate trips to the RTJ trail and while I have not played them all, Ross Bridge is my favorite and Fighting Joe is my second favorite. Want to try and play Grand National next time we make the trip down to the trail as I have heard good things.

az2au · August 31, 2016

After the refurb has to be #2. So overpriced borders on fraud. ��
I have the exact opposite view. Thought it was wildly overrated before. Think it is excellent now.
Easy golf course now....

I call BS.

I agree and base it on the fact that I play most of my rounds at my home course rated 75.5/149 at 7210 yards with 66 acres of maintained turf. Most people think it is one of the hardest golf courses they've ever played. I don't find Pinehurst appreciable easier now. I used to think it is was way too easy and boring for anyone that was even a decent putter.

Browns71213 · September 1, 2016

I have made two separate trips to the RTJ trail and while I have not played them all, Ross Bridge is my favorite and Fighting Joe is my second favorite. Want to try and play Grand National next time we make the trip down to the trail as I have heard good things.

What? No love for The Judge?

EKELLY · September 1, 2016

After the refurb has to be #2. So overpriced borders on fraud. ��
I have the exact opposite view. Thought it was wildly overrated before. Think it is excellent now.
Easy golf course now....

I call BS.

i was just there, 2 weeks ago.......They took out all the rough.........I'm not saying ridiculously easy, but you have room to be a little offline with little or no rough.......I played #2 probably 100 times, and it wasn't that way before.............It WAS harder, but that's just my opinion....I don't play the White tees......

teejaywhy · September 2, 2016

After the refurb has to be #2. So overpriced borders on fraud. ��
I have the exact opposite view. Thought it was wildly overrated before. Think it is excellent now.
Easy golf course now....

I call BS.
i was just there, 2 weeks ago.......They took out all the rough.........I'm not saying ridiculously easy, but you have room to be a little offline with little or no rough.......I played #2 probably 100 times, and it wasn't that way before.............It WAS harder, but that's just my opinion....I don't play the White tees......

Let's not mistake "Harder" for "Better."

coreyhr · September 2, 2016

Not to get off topic, but to you guys that occasionally come to Alabama to play the RTJ Trail... Next time make sure to stop in Sylacauga at FarmLinks (you probably already have). Just an incredible place. Here is the view from the 5th hole, just to give you an idea of the landscape.