Most Overrated Course

[Gdane]

[quote name='MichiganMan' timestamp='1439990675' post='12168492']
[quote name='Gdane' timestamp='1439956371' post='12167094']
Tullymore sure does get a lot of bad press on this site. I played two years ago, and like many others wasn't blown away. Of the 4 courses I played on that trip, I actually enjoyed Bucks Run the most.
[/quote]

Bucks Run is nice. Short, but nice. Please tell me you didn't play Pohl Cat while you were in Mt. Pleasant. Now that's a course I will NEVER play again. One of the worst courses I've ever stepped foot on.

I actually don't mind Tullymore. It's a far better course than St. Ives. St. Ives is terrible. Not sure what anyone sees in that place. Tullymore was better manicured, has a better layout, and is more challenging.
[/quote]

Unfortunately we did play Pohl Cat. As out of staters you could say we didn't know any better. It was the last course on our trip and we all wished we picked somewhere else. I remember really liking the first hole at Pohl Cat, and then it was all downhill from there.

[raynorfan1]

The more I play, the more I find the "rating" question to be a tough one.

What is being rated?
(1) Course architecture?
(2) Overall "experience"?
(3) Course conditioning?
(4) Something else?

I'm lucky to frequently play a pretty decently "rated" course, and on some days, I find it darn near perfect. But it has less than perfect days. If you hit it as a guest on one of those days, I would understand calling it "over" rated. It amazes me how much the grounds crew can change how the course plays (and how it is visually perceived) over just a couple of days. It feels like a totally different course when they mow the fairways narrow and let the fescue grow.

I just find it really difficult to judge a course based on playing it only a couple of times. It's so variable (for me) based on how I played, who I was paired with, etc. - so much can make or break a round other than the pure quality of the course, and I find it tough to separate the two.

[CDM]

[quote name='edresnick' timestamp='1439693931' post='12145928']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1439413223' post='12125580']
The Ocean Course at Kiawah.

It was good, but not great, and certainly not Top 20 in the USA. I have played $50 public tracks in Nebraska that are better.
[/quote]

[b]Nebraska must be the most under rated golf state in the country![/b] I have played a bunch of the top 100 courses and Kiawah is right at the top. Great mix of short and long holes with strategy and wind in the mix. I suggest you give it another try.
[/quote]

You would be surprised if you like links golf... I live in Colorado and 5 -7 years ago I would have said the same thing honestly. There is some spectacular courses on the Mid / Western part of the state. #1 rate course built in the last 50 years is there...

[quote name='mizleft' timestamp='1439866749' post='12158924']
Wilderness club eureka
[/quote]

Hmmmm interesting as I liked this course. Few holes I did not like (9..) but overall I really liked the course.

So I am sure I will get comments for a few on my list but here is my top 4......to date =)

1. Cherry Hills ([i]Good but I expected more[/i])
2. Streamsong ([i]Sure I will get flak on this...I just expected a bit more from all the hype[/i])
3. Chambers Bay ([i]Great course but I walked away with Mehhh... I think the price had a big thing to do with it and it is way expensive now...)[/i]
[i]4. TPC Scottsdale (Was "okay" in my book...I think seeing it on TV made me view it different)[/i]

I am wondering if many of us get "Perceived" expectation is part the reason we might walk away with a Blaaa feeling. I have some friends who just think/assume that higher fees means better course, conditions, service but we ALL know that is not the case.

[mr.haha]

For me it would be:

TPC Scottsdale
TPC Norton
TPC Blue Monster
Chambers Bay

i guess i find TPC courses very underwhelming perhaps due to TV exposure and word of mouth hype. I get to play TPC Norton quite a bit and there is no way i could ever join that course. I was bored of that course after 4 tee times.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='mr.haha' timestamp='1440004683' post='12170114']
For me it would be:

TPC Scottsdale
TPC Norton
TPC Blue Monster
Chambers Bay

i guess i find TPC courses very underwhelming perhaps due to TV exposure and word of mouth hype. I get to play TPC Norton quite a bit and there is no way i could ever join that course. I was bored of that course after 4 tee times.
[/quote]

I think one of the interesting side effects of the modern PGA era is that some of the qualities that make for a dramatic tournament are at odds with some of the things that make for a good course for the rest of us. Wide open areas for corporate sponsor tents, grandstands, etc, look particularly out of place when they're empty sections between holes.

[thehottsauce]

Maderas - Poway CA
The Crossings - Carlsbad CA
Encinitas Ranch - Encinitas CA

Southern California people love these courses. As far as I'm concerned they're wrong.

[MichiganMan]

[quote name='Gdane' timestamp='1440001013' post='12169674']
[quote name='MichiganMan' timestamp='1439990675' post='12168492']
[quote name='Gdane' timestamp='1439956371' post='12167094']
Tullymore sure does get a lot of bad press on this site. I played two years ago, and like many others wasn't blown away. Of the 4 courses I played on that trip, I actually enjoyed Bucks Run the most.
[/quote]

Bucks Run is nice. Short, but nice. Please tell me you didn't play Pohl Cat while you were in Mt. Pleasant. Now that's a course I will NEVER play again. One of the worst courses I've ever stepped foot on.

I actually don't mind Tullymore. It's a far better course than St. Ives. St. Ives is terrible. Not sure what anyone sees in that place. Tullymore was better manicured, has a better layout, and is more challenging.
[/quote]

Unfortunately we did play Pohl Cat. As out of staters you could say we didn't know any better. It was the last course on our trip and we all wished we picked somewhere else. I remember really liking the first hole at Pohl Cat, and then it was all downhill from there.
[/quote]

That's a great way to describe the golf course. 1st hole is a solid par 5. All downhill, quite sharply, after that.

[SilverBullets]

[quote name='LansingMI' timestamp='1439931221' post='12164138']
I'm throwing Tullymore under the bus as well. Hole after hole I kept waiting for it to turn into a Top 20 course in US. Don't get me wrong... I played it on 2 separate occasions, so I did go back, but in Michigan I can name 5 or 6 better courses off the top of my head.

*EDIT*

In Michigan I believe it is legal to be shot for this, but I left Forest Dunes about 5 holes from finishing what would have been a 6 hour round.... I had enough.....wont go back if I have to pay.
[/quote]

A 6 hour round is brutal so I understand the frustration. For me, personally, forest dunes may be my favorite layout in the country. I have played a bunch of top 50 courses out there and forest dunes, from a pure layout stand point sits amoung the best of them in my book. I like it more than Arcadia. Arcadia is actually a bit overrated in my book. I played it a week after whistling straits and remember feeling like it was closer to the Irish course at WS than the straits course. I wanted it to be Straits--isque but found it to be more resort than anything. If forest dunes had the views of Arcadia, it would be rated top 25 in the country.

You should really give it another shot. I've played it 4 times now (36 holes in one of those trips) and have never surpassed 4:45 minutes (which is a long round but not unheard of in high end courses)..

[mr.haha]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1440006428' post='12170300']
[quote name='mr.haha' timestamp='1440004683' post='12170114']
For me it would be:

TPC Scottsdale
TPC Norton
TPC Blue Monster
Chambers Bay

i guess i find TPC courses very underwhelming perhaps due to TV exposure and word of mouth hype. I get to play TPC Norton quite a bit and there is no way i could ever join that course. I was bored of that course after 4 tee times.
[/quote]

I think one of the interesting side effects of the modern PGA era is that some of the qualities that make for a dramatic tournament are at odds with some of the things that make for a good course for the rest of us. Wide open areas for corporate sponsor tents, grandstands, etc, look particularly out of place when they're empty sections between holes.
[/quote]

you're 100% correct on that. logistically the TPC courses are built to sustain large crowds, media, galleries and concessions. they are definitely good courses but not anywhere near in the vicinity of great. the stadium course for me was by far the most underwhelming course i have ever played.

[Grizz06]

[quote name='mr.haha' timestamp='1440073958' post='12175210']
[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1440006428' post='12170300']
[quote name='mr.haha' timestamp='1440004683' post='12170114']
For me it would be:

TPC Scottsdale
TPC Norton
TPC Blue Monster
Chambers Bay

i guess i find TPC courses very underwhelming perhaps due to TV exposure and word of mouth hype. I get to play TPC Norton quite a bit and there is no way i could ever join that course. I was bored of that course after 4 tee times.
[/quote]

I think one of the interesting side effects of the modern PGA era is that some of the qualities that make for a dramatic tournament are at odds with some of the things that make for a good course for the rest of us. Wide open areas for corporate sponsor tents, grandstands, etc, look particularly out of place when they're empty sections between holes.
[/quote]

you're 100% correct on that. logistically the TPC courses are built to sustain large crowds, media, galleries and concessions. they are definitely good courses but not anywhere near in the vicinity of great. the stadium course for me was by far the most underwhelming course i have ever played.
[/quote]

You should play the TPC Twin Cities (home of 3M chip)... It's always in great shape, rounds expedited but about as underwhelming as you get. I suppose it's ok if u like rows of townhomes, twin homes etc on every single hole.

That being said there's no course on this planet that I play better at ( ) so I play it every chance I get.

[golfortennis]

I've played Eagle Eye, and maybe the fact it was over 5 hours has something to do with it, but I didn't leave with the best feeling. I am willing to give it another shot, earlier in the day, in order to see if the pace was the issue. I didn't play poorly at all, but sitting down all day.....

For the Canadians reading....Tarandowah is the most mind boggling thing. How that course gets rated where it is is beyond me. I think it's being rated for what people want it to be, not what it is. Also, the Thompson Course at Sunningdale. Not a top 100 in Canada. The other course there is actually better.

[Big Juicy Van]

[quote name='Tarheelnation3' timestamp='1439397434' post='12124008']
Pelican Hill (Orange County California)
Trump (Los Angeles)
[/quote]

Wow...took the words right out of my mouth. Pelican North is much better than the higher-rated Pelican South, though.

[Shipwreck]

Dove Mountain for me. Sure, I paid $50 for it in the dead of summer, but this course, like so many Nicklaus designs, are terrible. I don't mind having undulations in the greens, by all means put them in there. What I don't like is 3 foot swells in the greens and it seems to be a huge thing to Jack. Past that, most desert golf is pretty lackluster except for places like Ventana Canyon that's set up a little higher into the mountains.

[driveandputtmachine]

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1439408535' post='12125102']
[quote name='double_d' timestamp='1439408165' post='12125064']
The Ocean Course at Kiawah is better than Pebble Beach and has more seaward holes. It's also more difficult.

There. I said it.

I know many people who agree and few who disagree personally.

If you haven't played both, your vote doesn't count.
[/quote]

More seaward holes? There were only like 3 or 4 holes that you could even see the ocean on at Kiawah. I agree though, Kiawah was harder. Kiawah has less boring holes. My only problem is, the great holes at pebble are truly breathtaking. Truly incredible golf holes. Kiawah, while an absolutely fantastic golf course, didn't have that wow factor to me. Like I said in my earlier post, I love Kiawah. I think it's great. It has probably 15-16 very very good golf holes. Just IMO it didn't have any incredible golf holes. Pebble has 6 or so incredible holes and 12 above average holes.

If given equal price for greens fees, I'd take pebble nearly every time... At $500 for pebble and $300 for Kiawah... I'm taking Kiawah 70% of the time.
[/quote]

Kiawah has three holes directly on the ocean. 5 more holes where the only thing between you and the ocean is some marshy areas, then another 10 that are just on a marsh. Comparing the Kiawah to Pebble is ludicrous because of the differing lanscapes where they meet the ocean. Pebble truly is breathtaking on 6 holes. Then about 3 above average gorgeous view holes. Then nine that I could find anywhere and piles of holes I like playing better. Pebble is a course everyone should play once, Cypress Pointe is the same way. Love the Links at Spanish Bay.

Overrated to me.....
Poppy Hills - Glad I played it once, but no need ever again.
Spyglass - Same thing, nothing jumped out at me.
Harbor Town - Bunch of great holes followed by some silly weird holes.
Old Course - Glad I played it once, but there are so many better there. I would play again though, I mean it is the old course, but hugely overrated.

[ckostrewa]

[quote name='vallygolf' timestamp='1439396872' post='12123942']
Top 3

Trump Doral Blue Monster (renovations improved it, but so blah) after awhile the whole fairway and green with rolled edges into the water gets old. I actually preferred the Red Tiger. Silver Fox was still under construction when I played.
Trump LA: More good shots rewarded with poor lies/problems than any course I have ever played
Whistling Straits (Dare I say it this week) Probably one of the worst conditioned courses I have paid so much to play. If I could get out to play it this week I might feel differently. layout and design was amazing.
[/quote] Agree with the Whistling Straits sentiment. I played there in May and the rough was not grown out at all and greens were aerated and very sandy. Not as difficult track as I expected (except for putting through craters on the greens).

[ckostrewa]

[quote name='mallrat' timestamp='1439415952' post='12125826']
This may be sac religious to some but Torrey and Spanish Bay, IMO.

Spanish Bay was the epitoMe of target golf and that is not my favorite, but I thoroughly enjoyed Spyglass on the other hand.

Now Torrey, IMO, was a bunch of utterly forgettable holes with 2 or 3 scenic holes thrown in. If it wasn't on the coast would it be talked about at all?
[/quote]
Torrey Pines absolutely. Just long and bland and same holes over and over again. It reminded me of a muni course on steroids.

[ckostrewa]

[quote name='MrTmag' timestamp='1439690372' post='12145550']
Augusta is a very overrated course in my opinion. I think it's image and history overshadow the actual course which isn't all that special in my eyes. I know it's on most golfers bucket list but I'd honestly decline the invitation to play there if I was ever offered.
[/quote] are you kidding me? You should be ashamed of yourself. I'd do anything to get an invitation to play at Augusta.

[ckostrewa]

[quote name='Sir Larry Wildman' timestamp='1439931156' post='12164126']
[quote name='Drudersh' timestamp='1439862158' post='12158418']
Get the pitch forks and torches ready, but if you're talking purely overrated I'd go Pine Valley. Is it a one of a kind golf experience? Absolutely. Does it deserve the ranking it has? I don't necessarily think so. There are some fantastic golf holes but there are some very mediocre holes as well. Would I turn down an invite? Absolutely not. But in my opinion there are better courses within an hours drive.
[/quote]

Drudersh, I have heard this from other people as well. I don't think you're alone here.

For me, it's Merion. Same situation. Is it an amazing experience? Yes. Is the club amazing, and filled with great members? Sure is. Is it unsurpassed in pure golf history? Yup. Would I ever turn down an invite? Nope, and never have and never will. But gosh, top 5 course in the country? I don't know. I mean, when I think of absolute best on golf course experiences that I've had, Merion is not one of them. Maybe it's just that in 20+ rounds there I've never played well once... but every time i come up 18, all i think is "thank god this is over."

Now, most underrated? Bayonne. I think some of the old guard thinks its gimmicky and overrated, but gosh it is such an incredible experience. Baltusrol is up there for most underrated too; I know it's a top 25 course in the country, but it's so, so, so great.
[/quote] was wondering if someone was going to mention Merion in this thread.

[BEND OF THE RIVER GC]

Bay Harbor, MI was waaaay overrated!!!

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1440003597' post='12169970']
The more I play, the more I find the "rating" question to be a tough one.

What is being rated?
(1) Course architecture?
(2) Overall "experience"?
(3) Course conditioning?
(4) Something else?
[/quote]

I think everyone has their own value set that effects the weighting of the different criteria. For many, conditioning seems to be the #1 factor. Others include the facilities, the staff, etc. Personally, I look at the course design as the primary factor. Don't care if the clubhouse is a trailer and there is no range or restaurant as long as the course is interesting. Certainly, extreme conditions can affect one's experience but I would rather play an interesting course with marginal conditions than a perfectly manicured course that is perfectly boring to play. Not to mention, conditioning is variable and can be improved where as a dull design cannot.

The only time conditioning comes into play in my evaluation is when the setup or maintenance presentation is contrary to the course design or affects playability in a negative way. Things like narrowed fairways, thick rough and overwatering that eliminate angles, options and ground play and force a single line of play or aerial-only attack can turn a course that could be charming into a tedious slog.


[quote name='raynorfan1' timestamp='1440003597' post='12169970']
I just find it really difficult to judge a course based on playing it only a couple of times. It's so variable (for me) based on how I played, who I was paired with, etc. - so much can make or break a round other than the pure quality of the course, and I find it tough to separate the two.
[/quote]

I have found that the best courses have subtle nuance that takes some time to figure out and as such, get better with each play. On the other hand, a lot of courses bludgeon you with the visual wow factor that is attractive and compelling initially, but after a few plays the visual aesthetics wear off and one realizes the actual golf is not really that great. These tend to become the "overrated" courses in my mind.

[Reif]

[quote name='thehottsauce' timestamp='1440016874' post='12171494']
Maderas - Poway CA
The Crossings - Carlsbad CA
Encinitas Ranch - Encinitas CA

Southern California people love these courses. As far as I'm concerned they're wrong.
[/quote]

I never heard anyone say ER is a great course. I think people like it because it's pretty easy.

I'll disagree on Maderas and never heard anyone say the Crossings was awesome.

I'd play Maderas nine times out of ten before Torrey.

I will say I live 15 minutes from Torrey and haven't played there this year.
Not sure why I'm not a big fan, but I just don't think either of those Torrey courses are all that great.

[TeachingProMike]

Valhalla. No character. No flow. nothing special.

Trump LA. I think Trump is the only person who still rates this place highly. Just not a good golf course.


Oh, and I 100% agree that Kiawah is a million times better than Pebble. (yes, ive played them both)

[TeachingProMike]

[quote name='ckostrewa' timestamp='1440191675' post='12185094']
[quote name='MrTmag' timestamp='1439690372' post='12145550']
Augusta is a very overrated course in my opinion. I think it's image and history overshadow the actual course which isn't all that special in my eyes. I know it's on most golfers bucket list but I'd honestly decline the invitation to play there if I was ever offered.
[/quote] are you kidding me? You should be ashamed of yourself. I'd do anything to get an invitation to play at Augusta.
[/quote]


Neither of you have played there? How can either argument be taken seriously?

I've never played, it's not on my top 5 courses I need to play, but also I'd never turn down an invite.

I know a bunch of guys who have played multiple times and a few think its the best ever, a few think its an extremely overrated layout.

Myself? i have no opinion of a course I've never set foot on

[Drudersh]

[quote name='TeachingProMike' timestamp='1440706046' post='12219992']
[quote name='ckostrewa' timestamp='1440191675' post='12185094']
[quote name='MrTmag' timestamp='1439690372' post='12145550']
Augusta is a very overrated course in my opinion. I think it's image and history overshadow the actual course which isn't all that special in my eyes. I know it's on most golfers bucket list but I'd honestly decline the invitation to play there if I was ever offered.
[/quote] are you kidding me? You should be ashamed of yourself. I'd do anything to get an invitation to play at Augusta.
[/quote]


Neither of you have played there? How can either argument be taken seriously?

I've never played, it's not on my top 5 courses I need to play, but also I'd never turn down an invite.

I know a bunch of guys who have played multiple times and a few think its the best ever, a few think its an extremely overrated layout.

Myself? i have no opinion of a course I've never set foot on
[/quote]

Guys that think Augusta is overrated, in my opinion, are wrong.

[ScratchNot]

Cog Hill #4

[Ascan]

Agree about Torrey Pines and TPC Scottsdale -- was underwhelmed by both. Would also add La Costa to the list.

[Stensons3Wood]

TPC of Louisiana , where they play the Zurich , is a bad golf course. It's a weird layout on a bad piece of property so everything is forced. I don't think it's rated that high anyway by anyone but considering they play a Tour event there it's pretty bad.

[Chomper]

Played Torrey Pines South recently.
If it wasn't for the rough, it would be a pretty easy course on the water.
Very overrated, and I paid twilight fees.

[novakjrp1]

I went on a golf trip in the SF Bay area over a year ago and played Pebble Beach, Pasatiempo, and Harding Park. Played Pebble first and experienced what many people that played it have said, it's a very hard course to rate in some respects because the spectacular holes truly are spectacular. It is something more than just golf. The inland holes are good, some even very good, however they are somewhat of a let down after your have played the previous 6 holes along Carmel Bay. #17 was not what I expected either, somewhat of a let down when you are on the tee box. However 18 definitely leaves a lasting positive impression on you. Biggest disappointment with Pebble in my opinion is that it really wasn't a "superbly" conditioned course. Obviously I understand it's a public course, however i still expected better conditions.

The day after I played Pebble, I played Pasatiempo in Santa Cruz. Played with a member who asked me on the first tee what other courses I had played on my trip? I told him Pebble. He looked right at me and said, "yeah, well when you're done playing this course you will think this course kicks Pebble's a**!" I thought to myself, sure old man, sure I will. But I'll tell you what, he wasn't too far off. Pasatiempo was one of the best courses that I ever played, public or private. It got better and better as the round went on. I find myself thinking back more about Pasatiempo then I do about Pebble. I know most people that have played both will think I'm crazy, but it is what it is. I'm not saying Pasa is better than Pebble Beach, I'm just saying that I liked it better.

Third course I played on the trip was Harding Park. While it's a nice enough course, it felt like a let down after playing Pebble and Pasatiempo.

[FKA HB]

Spanish Bay.
Chicago Golf Club. I believe it was ranked top 10 in the US when I played it and nothing about it was memorable. Cool if you like throwback features like a crappy locker room, driving range in the middle of the course (actually had to walk across a couple fairways where people were playing), and general disdain for guests of the club.