SI cover: the Ultimate Troll

[ThunderBuzzworth]

Tiger will come back and win another major when mock neck shirts are back in style

[Lodestone]

If Tiger does come back and win a major again, it will be a flash in the pan and he will be done. Again Jack was different because once he established his game he just didn't practice that much and could still compete, his swing held up because he didn't change it, he could repeat it even with little practice. Tiger is not wired that way. He has to go full bore.

 

 

Jack's swing didn't hold up and he changed it in 1980. He wasn't playing well, so he made a big swing change that resulted in two majors that year.

 

http://www.golfdiges...laus-power-draw

 

But don't let facts get in the way.

 

That article has been linked before, to illustrate that Jack did indeed change his swing. I think it is written awkwardly, and somewhat contradicts itself. In one sentence he refers to a "full swing change", but later explains that his swing "had become excessively steep". When I read this I get the impression that over time, without Jack realizing it, he had developed a bad habit. The swing change he describes was not a matter of discarding a successful swing in favor of one he hoped would be more successful,(as Tiger has done) but rather, going back to his original swing which he had gradually lost. As he lost his original swing, the swing he was using was not successful.

 

Jack's "swing change" he describes was not a matter of him seeking out the current most fashionable swing "guru de jour", but just the opposite, going back to his original and only teacher and revisiting his original "fundamentals".

Completely different thing.

[LanDog]

The story is relevant to the most of those who read Sports Illustrated they like sport but not necessarily golf, the golfer they know is Tiger so the story is relevant to them.

 

Jason Day on the cover after two wins is not as sellable to the general public because he's not Tiger Woods.

 

Shipnuck even said that he was assigned fhe story around 3 months ago, it goes over 6 pages so you're not gonna write a 6 page cover story on a golfer winning two events

 

[gators78]

Poor guy-Shipnuck I mean. His whole career , like Chamblee's, seems to be based on Tiger being crap. If-and it is a capital IF- Tiger ever does return to some semblance of form both of them will have nothing to talk about. Especially Shipnuck.

 

You do realize without Shipnuck and Brandel Tiger wouldn't be in the news at all in the past 3 years outside of his random Friday announcements.

[Lodestone]

Tiger will come back and win another major when mock neck shirts are back in style

 

Oh oh...nobody bothered to tell me they had gone out of style.

[rlynham]

If Tiger does come back and win a major again, it will be a flash in the pan and he will be done. Again Jack was different because once he established his game he just didn't practice that much and could still compete, his swing held up because he didn't change it, he could repeat it even with little practice. Tiger is not wired that way. He has to go full bore.

 

 

Jack's swing didn't hold up and he changed it in 1980. He wasn't playing well, so he made a big swing change that resulted in two majors that year.

 

http://www.golfdiges...laus-power-draw

 

But don't let facts get in the way.

 

 

Jack used the same instructor following the same principles he had been following his whole career. He had just gotten too steep in the late 70s, and was well aware of the flaw at the time. He just wasn't willing to put in the effort to correct the problem until 1980, after his dismal year in 1979.

 

He wasn't bouncing from instructor to instructor like Tiger.

[Shilgy]

Poor guy-Shipnuck I mean. His whole career , like Chamblee's, seems to be based on Tiger being crap. If-and it is a capital IF- Tiger ever does return to some semblance of form both of them will have nothing to talk about. Especially Shipnuck.

 

You do realize without Shipnuck and Brandel Tiger wouldn't be in the news at all in the past 3 years outside of his random Friday announcements.

Jack still is as is Arnie so I'm guessing Tiger would be as well. Like MJ and Bonds and Ruth for that matter.

[tigers9iron]

Tiger was ruined mentally by the scandal, it killed him. I don't know why either. He was smart enough and mentally tough enough to brush it off and keep going. I think he handled it terribly and had awful advice. Step up day one and say I've got some personal issues, I'm working it out in private, thanks people see you in san diego in January. I mean cmon, a young billionaire celebrity athlete gets caught cheating on his wife repeatedly and tiger retreats and reacts like he was the leader of ISIS, please. Horribly handled and it destroyed him mentally, was never the same, you could see it in his eyes and obviously his play. Couldve won several majors since the scandal but couldn't play on weekends. Since 09 I recall 2 us opens (pebble, olympic) a british and the masters where he was in position to win going into the weekend or even sunday and folded. All mental.

[Lodestone]

Tiger was ruined mentally by the scandal, it killed him. I don't know why either. He was smart enough and mentally tough enough to brush it off and keep going. I think he handled it terribly and had awful advice. Step up day one and say I've got some personal issues, I'm working it out in private, thanks people see you in san diego in January. I mean cmon, a young billionaire celebrity athlete gets caught cheating on his wife repeatedly and tiger retreats and reacts like he was the leader of ISIS, please. Horribly handled and it destroyed him mentally, was never the same, you could see it in his eyes and obviously his play. Couldve won several majors since the scandal but couldn't play on weekends. Since 09 I recall 2 us opens (pebble, olympic) a british and the masters where he was in position to win going into the weekend or even sunday and folded. All mental.

 

at the time, I would have considered your opinion a lot of hogwash, but looking back at the way things unfolded, I think there is more to your viewpoint than I did then. I think other things played into it, though. I think that period coincided with a crisis in self-confidence, on the course. He was getting out-driven, which was completely different than his first years on the tour. The young guys were not backing down like the old guys did. He was still the best, but he felt compelled to change something that wasn't really broken, and it backfired on him.

To some degree, I wouldn't be surprised if the world's reaction to his personal indiscretions pushed him towards some ill-conceived decisions regarding changing his swing. Earl wasn't there anymore, and maybe his presence, and his counsel could have helped him get through the process with less damage to his game. Who knows?

 

I can see how the personal "scandal" played into other decisions that eventually cost him a good many years of what could have been his prime.

And his body was getting beat up, which was going to be a factor to some degree even without the personal, off the course, stuff.

[Lefty_3Jack]

Um, injuries and personal problems happened.

 

Agreed...but just over 2 years ago when he was healthy he won 5 times in a single season including a Players Championship...

So it's not like he sucks now...

 

He will probably pass Snead's all time mark in the next decade and perhaps much less likely catch Jacks major record....either way, he is in his forties and still has a punchers chance at becoming the greatest of all time....

 

It is frustrating to me that NOBODY recognizes his 2013 season(the last time he was healthy) and he was dominating....remember fowler crumbling on Sunday down the stretch at bay hill?

 

I think it's premature to bury him...just like Trevino told the press in 80 regarding Jack...he begged them to not wake the bear...

 

-Christosteronw

 

I disagree and here is why. The best champions in the history of sport have not been wire to wire world beaters. Most great champions have had "it" knocked in the dirt a few times and had to pick themselves back up. Tiger Woods upbringing and career sans 2009 mimics the character of Ivan Drago. Perfect. Untouchable. A machine. He was told he was untouchable and would be one of the most influential people in the world during his upbringing for God's sake! He was never taught how to fail. He was told he was the greatest, played like it and then embarrassment and setbacks happened.

 

Tiger Woods was a great player in 2009, a year after a knee replacement. What happened? International shame and for the first time the feeling of being venerable happened. How else do you explain the final few tourneys of 2009 and 2010? He was never taught how to fail, how to get back after failing as a kid. He was put on a pedestal and was never taught how to handle it and most importantly how to get back on it after he got knocked off of it.

 

What you see now with the changing of coaches and the injuries to me is PARTIALLY a smoke screen for someone who has lost "it" and is searching for answers. I have no doubts he has injuries, but I don't believe the struggles you've seen can be solely attributed to injuries. He had surgeries prior to 2009 and bounced back. Either a perfect storm hit to make me put all this together or there is truth in what I'm saying.

 

If you can put aside your love (or hate) for Tiger Woods I think you can see him setting up a narrative that is allowing him to step away from competitive golf with the aura of "what could have been if he'd have stayed healthy". I believe the reality is he is not as good as he once was and he is done trying to figure it out, struggle and battle with everyone watching him. I don't say this in a negative manner, he is not Brett Favre, Muhammad Ali or other great athletes who continued to play past their prime to allow all of us to see them struggle. He's not wired that way because he has been told he's the greatest of all time and in his mind that means not allowing us to see him struggle.

[Shilgy]

Um, injuries and personal problems happened.

 

Agreed...but just over 2 years ago when he was healthy he won 5 times in a single season including a Players Championship...

So it's not like he sucks now...

 

He will probably pass Snead's all time mark in the next decade and perhaps much less likely catch Jacks major record....either way, he is in his forties and still has a punchers chance at becoming the greatest of all time....

 

It is frustrating to me that NOBODY recognizes his 2013 season(the last time he was healthy) and he was dominating....remember fowler crumbling on Sunday down the stretch at bay hill?

 

I think it's premature to bury him...just like Trevino told the press in 80 regarding Jack...he begged them to not wake the bear...

 

-Christosteronw

 

I disagree and here is why. The best champions in the history of sport have not been wire to wire world beaters. Most great champions have had "it" knocked in the dirt a few times and had to pick themselves back up. Tiger Woods upbringing and career sans 2009 mimics the character of Ivan Drago. Perfect. Untouchable. A machine. He was told he was untouchable and would be one of the most influential people in the world during his upbringing for God's sake! He was never taught how to fail. He was told he was the greatest, played like it and then embarrassment and setbacks happened.

 

Tiger Woods was a great player in 2009, a year after a knee replacement. What happened? International shame and for the first time the feeling of being venerable happened. How else do you explain the final few tourneys of 2009 and 2010? He was never taught how to fail, how to get back after failing as a kid. He was put on a pedestal and was never taught how to handle it and most importantly how to get back on it after he got knocked off of it.

 

What you see now with the changing of coaches and the injuries to me is PARTIALLY a smoke screen for someone who has lost "it" and is searching for answers. I have no doubts he has injuries, but I don't believe the struggles you've seen can be solely attributed to injuries. He had surgeries prior to 2009 and bounced back. Either a perfect storm hit to make me put all this together or there is truth in what I'm saying.

 

If you can put aside your love (or hate) for Tiger Woods I think you can see him setting up a narrative that is allowing him to step away from competitive golf with the aura of "what could have been if he'd have stayed healthy". I believe the reality is he is not as good as he once was and he is done trying to figure it out, struggle and battle with everyone watching him. I don't say this in a negative manner, he is not Brett Favre, Muhammad Ali or other great athletes who continued to play past their prime to allow all of us to see them struggle. He's not wired that way because he has been told he's the greatest of all time and in his mind that means not allowing us to see him struggle.

Knee replacement? Anyway...while I agree with parts I would add that IF he gets healthy he will be playing a full schedule. If he does not then yes, I expect he would walk away. You keep mentioning 2009-10 but in 2013 he was healthy, finally, and won 5 times and returned to #1. With health and the ability to practice I see him returning to Patrick Reed level at worst #top5 :)

[Lefty_3Jack]

Um, injuries and personal problems happened.

 

Agreed...but just over 2 years ago when he was healthy he won 5 times in a single season including a Players Championship...

So it's not like he sucks now...

 

He will probably pass Snead's all time mark in the next decade and perhaps much less likely catch Jacks major record....either way, he is in his forties and still has a punchers chance at becoming the greatest of all time....

 

It is frustrating to me that NOBODY recognizes his 2013 season(the last time he was healthy) and he was dominating....remember fowler crumbling on Sunday down the stretch at bay hill?

 

I think it's premature to bury him...just like Trevino told the press in 80 regarding Jack...he begged them to not wake the bear...

 

-Christosteronw

 

I disagree and here is why. The best champions in the history of sport have not been wire to wire world beaters. Most great champions have had "it" knocked in the dirt a few times and had to pick themselves back up. Tiger Woods upbringing and career sans 2009 mimics the character of Ivan Drago. Perfect. Untouchable. A machine. He was told he was untouchable and would be one of the most influential people in the world during his upbringing for God's sake! He was never taught how to fail. He was told he was the greatest, played like it and then embarrassment and setbacks happened.

 

Tiger Woods was a great player in 2009, a year after a knee replacement. What happened? International shame and for the first time the feeling of being venerable happened. How else do you explain the final few tourneys of 2009 and 2010? He was never taught how to fail, how to get back after failing as a kid. He was put on a pedestal and was never taught how to handle it and most importantly how to get back on it after he got knocked off of it.

 

What you see now with the changing of coaches and the injuries to me is PARTIALLY a smoke screen for someone who has lost "it" and is searching for answers. I have no doubts he has injuries, but I don't believe the struggles you've seen can be solely attributed to injuries. He had surgeries prior to 2009 and bounced back. Either a perfect storm hit to make me put all this together or there is truth in what I'm saying.

 

If you can put aside your love (or hate) for Tiger Woods I think you can see him setting up a narrative that is allowing him to step away from competitive golf with the aura of "what could have been if he'd have stayed healthy". I believe the reality is he is not as good as he once was and he is done trying to figure it out, struggle and battle with everyone watching him. I don't say this in a negative manner, he is not Brett Favre, Muhammad Ali or other great athletes who continued to play past their prime to allow all of us to see them struggle. He's not wired that way because he has been told he's the greatest of all time and in his mind that means not allowing us to see him struggle.

Knee replacement? Anyway...while I agree with parts I would add that IF he gets healthy he will be playing a full schedule. If he does not then yes, I expect he would walk away. You keep mentioning 2009-10 but in 2013 he was healthy, finally, and won 5 times and returned to #1. With health and the ability to practice I see him returning to Patrick Reed level at worst #top5 :)

Knee sugery, my apology.

 

I reference 2009-10 because it backs my argument.

 

2009 (on PGA tour because you have to remember he won in Australia in his final tourney literally days before the scandal broke)

6-wins

4-runner ups

1-year after the big surgery

 

2010

0 wins

0 runner ups

2 years after big surgery, no physical ailments

 

What on earth could cause that drastic of a change to the greatest player in the history of the game during his prime years with no physical ailments? Yes, I know he won 5 times in 2013 and I know that all 5 were significant tournaments. This is the only year that even allows you to have an argument. In 2010 there were no injuries and he fell off the map. Starting in 2010 he started withdrawing from tournaments. Why the sudden change?

 

The reason people "ignore" 2013 is because the vast majority of statistics and the "eye ball test" from 2010-2012 support the idea that the scandal or some other mental issues (the idea that he was losing distance and the newer breed of golfers is a good theory as well) have affected Tiger Woods drastically. The evidence now of him leaking info of his progress and hinting that he may never be able to come back is a DRASTIC change from the Tiger Woods you see in your eyes. This is the guy who said 2nd place was unacceptable earlier in life. The same guy that any challenge to the idea that he was indestructible was met with cold stares and short, curt answers that reeked of insecurity (which is not uncommon with great athletes anyway).... what changed? Please bring me more than, "look at 2013" to change my mind. I'm open to change on this. I don't have a dog in the fight.

[Lefty_3Jack]

Look at boxing and how many guys fit this mold. You want to know why? Cupcake fights that inflate records that make people feel invincible and then reality hits. I see the same thing with Rhonda Rousey. Someone who put all her self worth on being indestructible and someone told her that she was human in a very violent way....

[ChillyDipper]

And that tells you everything you need to know about the state of golf in the consciousness of sports fan.

 

Once Tiger is well and truly out of the picture, golf can return to the backwaters of pro sports, somewhere a notch above tennis.

Sadly, this will probably be true. Golf has always been seen as elitist and closed off, and frankly most golfers I know don't do anything to dispute it.

 

I am always puzzled by these comments. Tiger was here, kicked some butt and now he is irrelevant just like any athlete from any sport. Yet, most Tiger fans refuse to give in to the fact that he is, in fact, irrelevant. They hold on to the fact that if he was in a tournament that 'numbers' would be up, how he grew the sport etc.... yet, in the same breath, complain about pace of play, the price of equipment, cost of going to an event etc.

 

My love for the sport has grown over the years because I love it... not because of Jack or Tiger or Jordan et al. I watch from Thursday to Sunday because I like to watch golf not because of who's playing.

 

Tiger fans are all but HOPING golf reverts back to the backwaters of pro sports and to more of an elitist, closed off sport so they can remember the good ole days when Tiger stomped everyone up and down the fairways. They want to stand up and proclaim their 'I TOLD YOU SO'S'!!!

 

Like anyone famous or those who've dominated their profession we must celebrate what they've done, set the bar for the next superstar and continue to say to the young ones of 20+ years.... "If you only could have seen Tiger.... THAT was special." Then we can have an argument about who is better... Tiger or the kid that is not even born yet.

 

 

I'm a big Tiger fan, and I disagree with your position. You are correct that some of us are refusing to believe he has become irrelevant, but I remember those days, as many of us do, and how exciting it was when you were watching any tournament on Sunday, and for Tiger's name to start crawling up the leaderboard. The reason I refuse to believe he has become irrelevant is simply because of my own selfishness to relive those days again: to hear those roars and watch his competitors fall apart. I want to see him come back, and while I don't think he can win with a ten shot margin anymore, I still think he could show the young guns a thing or two about closing. How awesome would that be to see?

[ChillyDipper]

Um, injuries and personal problems happened.

 

Agreed...but just over 2 years ago when he was healthy he won 5 times in a single season including a Players Championship...

So it's not like he sucks now...

 

He will probably pass Snead's all time mark in the next decade and perhaps much less likely catch Jacks major record....either way, he is in his forties and still has a punchers chance at becoming the greatest of all time....

 

It is frustrating to me that NOBODY recognizes his 2013 season(the last time he was healthy) and he was dominating....remember fowler crumbling on Sunday down the stretch at bay hill?

 

I think it's premature to bury him...just like Trevino told the press in 80 regarding Jack...he begged them to not wake the bear...

 

-Christosteronw

 

I disagree and here is why. The best champions in the history of sport have not been wire to wire world beaters. Most great champions have had "it" knocked in the dirt a few times and had to pick themselves back up. Tiger Woods upbringing and career sans 2009 mimics the character of Ivan Drago. Perfect. Untouchable. A machine. He was told he was untouchable and would be one of the most influential people in the world during his upbringing for God's sake! He was never taught how to fail. He was told he was the greatest, played like it and then embarrassment and setbacks happened.

 

Tiger Woods was a great player in 2009, a year after a knee replacement. What happened? International shame and for the first time the feeling of being venerable happened. How else do you explain the final few tourneys of 2009 and 2010? He was never taught how to fail, how to get back after failing as a kid. He was put on a pedestal and was never taught how to handle it and most importantly how to get back on it after he got knocked off of it.

 

What you see now with the changing of coaches and the injuries to me is PARTIALLY a smoke screen for someone who has lost "it" and is searching for answers. I have no doubts he has injuries, but I don't believe the struggles you've seen can be solely attributed to injuries. He had surgeries prior to 2009 and bounced back. Either a perfect storm hit to make me put all this together or there is truth in what I'm saying.

 

If you can put aside your love (or hate) for Tiger Woods I think you can see him setting up a narrative that is allowing him to step away from competitive golf with the aura of "what could have been if he'd have stayed healthy". I believe the reality is he is not as good as he once was and he is done trying to figure it out, struggle and battle with everyone watching him. I don't say this in a negative manner, he is not Brett Favre, Muhammad Ali or other great athletes who continued to play past their prime to allow all of us to see them struggle. He's not wired that way because he has been told he's the greatest of all time and in his mind that means not allowing us to see him struggle.

Knee replacement? Anyway...while I agree with parts I would add that IF he gets healthy he will be playing a full schedule. If he does not then yes, I expect he would walk away. You keep mentioning 2009-10 but in 2013 he was healthy, finally, and won 5 times and returned to #1. With health and the ability to practice I see him returning to Patrick Reed level at worst #top5 :)

Knee sugery, my apology.

 

I reference 2009-10 because it backs my argument.

 

2009 (on PGA tour because you have to remember he won in Australia in his final tourney literally days before the scandal broke)

6-wins

4-runner ups

1-year after the big surgery

 

2010

0 wins

0 runner ups

2 years after big surgery, no physical ailments

 

What on earth could cause that drastic of a change to the greatest player in the history of the game during his prime years with no physical ailments? Yes, I know he won 5 times in 2013 and I know that all 5 were significant tournaments. This is the only year that even allows you to have an argument. In 2010 there were no injuries and he fell off the map. Starting in 2010 he started withdrawing from tournaments. Why the sudden change?

 

The reason people "ignore" 2013 is because the vast majority of statistics and the "eye ball test" from 2010-2012 support the idea that the scandal or some other mental issues (the idea that he was losing distance and the newer breed of golfers is a good theory as well) have affected Tiger Woods drastically. The evidence now of him leaking info of his progress and hinting that he may never be able to come back is a DRASTIC change from the Tiger Woods you see in your eyes. This is the guy who said 2nd place was unacceptable earlier in life. The same guy that any challenge to the idea that he was indestructible was met with cold stares and short, curt answers that reeked of insecurity (which is not uncommon with great athletes anyway).... what changed? Please bring me more than, "look at 2013" to change my mind. I'm open to change on this. I don't have a dog in the fight.

 

I fear you may be correct, in that I think his physical health has not suffered as much as his mental. Tiger without the killer instinct is just a great athlete, a la Dustin Johnson. Well, maybe a little more than DJ. :to_become_senile:

[Shilgy]

Um, injuries and personal problems happened.

 

Agreed...but just over 2 years ago when he was healthy he won 5 times in a single season including a Players Championship...

So it's not like he sucks now...

 

He will probably pass Snead's all time mark in the next decade and perhaps much less likely catch Jacks major record....either way, he is in his forties and still has a punchers chance at becoming the greatest of all time....

 

It is frustrating to me that NOBODY recognizes his 2013 season(the last time he was healthy) and he was dominating....remember fowler crumbling on Sunday down the stretch at bay hill?

 

I think it's premature to bury him...just like Trevino told the press in 80 regarding Jack...he begged them to not wake the bear...

 

-Christosteronw

 

I disagree and here is why. The best champions in the history of sport have not been wire to wire world beaters. Most great champions have had "it" knocked in the dirt a few times and had to pick themselves back up. Tiger Woods upbringing and career sans 2009 mimics the character of Ivan Drago. Perfect. Untouchable. A machine. He was told he was untouchable and would be one of the most influential people in the world during his upbringing for God's sake! He was never taught how to fail. He was told he was the greatest, played like it and then embarrassment and setbacks happened.

 

Tiger Woods was a great player in 2009, a year after a knee replacement. What happened? International shame and for the first time the feeling of being venerable happened. How else do you explain the final few tourneys of 2009 and 2010? He was never taught how to fail, how to get back after failing as a kid. He was put on a pedestal and was never taught how to handle it and most importantly how to get back on it after he got knocked off of it.

 

What you see now with the changing of coaches and the injuries to me is PARTIALLY a smoke screen for someone who has lost "it" and is searching for answers. I have no doubts he has injuries, but I don't believe the struggles you've seen can be solely attributed to injuries. He had surgeries prior to 2009 and bounced back. Either a perfect storm hit to make me put all this together or there is truth in what I'm saying.

 

If you can put aside your love (or hate) for Tiger Woods I think you can see him setting up a narrative that is allowing him to step away from competitive golf with the aura of "what could have been if he'd have stayed healthy". I believe the reality is he is not as good as he once was and he is done trying to figure it out, struggle and battle with everyone watching him. I don't say this in a negative manner, he is not Brett Favre, Muhammad Ali or other great athletes who continued to play past their prime to allow all of us to see them struggle. He's not wired that way because he has been told he's the greatest of all time and in his mind that means not allowing us to see him struggle.

Knee replacement? Anyway...while I agree with parts I would add that IF he gets healthy he will be playing a full schedule. If he does not then yes, I expect he would walk away. You keep mentioning 2009-10 but in 2013 he was healthy, finally, and won 5 times and returned to #1. With health and the ability to practice I see him returning to Patrick Reed level at worst #top5 :)

Knee sugery, my apology.

 

I reference 2009-10 because it backs my argument.

 

2009 (on PGA tour because you have to remember he won in Australia in his final tourney literally days before the scandal broke)

6-wins

4-runner ups

1-year after the big surgery

 

2010

0 wins

0 runner ups

2 years after big surgery, no physical ailments

 

What on earth could cause that drastic of a change to the greatest player in the history of the game during his prime years with no physical ailments? Yes, I know he won 5 times in 2013 and I know that all 5 were significant tournaments. This is the only year that even allows you to have an argument. In 2010 there were no injuries and he fell off the map. Starting in 2010 he started withdrawing from tournaments. Why the sudden change?

 

The reason people "ignore" 2013 is because the vast majority of statistics and the "eye ball test" from 2010-2012 support the idea that the scandal or some other mental issues (the idea that he was losing distance and the newer breed of golfers is a good theory as well) have affected Tiger Woods drastically. The evidence now of him leaking info of his progress and hinting that he may never be able to come back is a DRASTIC change from the Tiger Woods you see in your eyes. This is the guy who said 2nd place was unacceptable earlier in life. The same guy that any challenge to the idea that he was indestructible was met with cold stares and short, curt answers that reeked of insecurity (which is not uncommon with great athletes anyway).... what changed? Please bring me more than, "look at 2013" to change my mind. I'm open to change on this. I don't have a dog in the fight.

Okay-I reference 2013 because it backs up mine! :) There is no question that the events of late 2009 and earlier his father passing had a profound effect on his psyche. Another narrative than yours would say that it affected him, a lot, for a couple years and was then recovering. For some reason you say 2012 was awful and he won 3 times. So 8 times in two years 2012-13 and then he got hurt again. None of us KNOW what the effect of all of this will be in the longer run. I hope he is able to make a healthy return but don't know that I am expecting that any more, sadly.

[AmazinBlue]

Regardless of how fascinating, amazing or horrific the downturn in Tiger's career has been in the last 2-3 years, there is no good reason to put him on the cover of SI. So many believe and want to scare everyone into believing that golf will die without Tiger. The game is doing just fine and actually much more entertaining now. There are 10-20 guys that can win every week and the top 5 players in the world are plenty exciting. The game is fine and doesn't need Tiger to prop it up. Frankly, I like watching 10 players hitting shots rather than one.

[moonshine]

Um, injuries and personal problems happened.

 

Agreed...but just over 2 years ago when he was healthy he won 5 times in a single season including a Players Championship...

So it's not like he sucks now...

 

He will probably pass Snead's all time mark in the next decade and perhaps much less likely catch Jacks major record....either way, he is in his forties and still has a punchers chance at becoming the greatest of all time....

 

It is frustrating to me that NOBODY recognizes his 2013 season(the last time he was healthy) and he was dominating....remember fowler crumbling on Sunday down the stretch at bay hill?

 

I think it's premature to bury him...just like Trevino told the press in 80 regarding Jack...he begged them to not wake the bear...

 

-Christosteronw

 

Great post, and that birdie on par 3 at Muirfield that year was much harder than 16 @ Masters

[nochct1]

Um, injuries and personal problems happened.

 

Agreed...but just over 2 years ago when he was healthy he won 5 times in a single season including a Players Championship...

So it's not like he sucks now...

 

He will probably pass Snead's all time mark in the next decade and perhaps much less likely catch Jacks major record....either way, he is in his forties and still has a punchers chance at becoming the greatest of all time....

 

It is frustrating to me that NOBODY recognizes his 2013 season(the last time he was healthy) and he was dominating....remember fowler crumbling on Sunday down the stretch at bay hill?

 

I think it's premature to bury him...just like Trevino told the press in 80 regarding Jack...he begged them to not wake the bear...

 

-Christosteronw

 

I disagree and here is why. The best champions in the history of sport have not been wire to wire world beaters. Most great champions have had "it" knocked in the dirt a few times and had to pick themselves back up. Tiger Woods upbringing and career sans 2009 mimics the character of Ivan Drago. Perfect. Untouchable. A machine. He was told he was untouchable and would be one of the most influential people in the world during his upbringing for God's sake! He was never taught how to fail. He was told he was the greatest, played like it and then embarrassment and setbacks happened.

 

Tiger Woods was a great player in 2009, a year after a knee replacement. What happened? International shame and for the first time the feeling of being venerable happened. How else do you explain the final few tourneys of 2009 and 2010? He was never taught how to fail, how to get back after failing as a kid. He was put on a pedestal and was never taught how to handle it and most importantly how to get back on it after he got knocked off of it.

 

What you see now with the changing of coaches and the injuries to me is PARTIALLY a smoke screen for someone who has lost "it" and is searching for answers. I have no doubts he has injuries, but I don't believe the struggles you've seen can be solely attributed to injuries. He had surgeries prior to 2009 and bounced back. Either a perfect storm hit to make me put all this together or there is truth in what I'm saying.

 

If you can put aside your love (or hate) for Tiger Woods I think you can see him setting up a narrative that is allowing him to step away from competitive golf with the aura of "what could have been if he'd have stayed healthy". I believe the reality is he is not as good as he once was and he is done trying to figure it out, struggle and battle with everyone watching him. I don't say this in a negative manner, he is not Brett Favre, Muhammad Ali or other great athletes who continued to play past their prime to allow all of us to see them struggle. He's not wired that way because he has been told he's the greatest of all time and in his mind that means not allowing us to see him struggle.

Knee replacement? Anyway...while I agree with parts I would add that IF he gets healthy he will be playing a full schedule. If he does not then yes, I expect he would walk away. You keep mentioning 2009-10 but in 2013 he was healthy, finally, and won 5 times and returned to #1. With health and the ability to practice I see him returning to Patrick Reed level at worst #top5 :)

Knee sugery, my apology.

 

I reference 2009-10 because it backs my argument.

 

2009 (on PGA tour because you have to remember he won in Australia in his final tourney literally days before the scandal broke)

6-wins

4-runner ups

1-year after the big surgery

 

2010

0 wins

0 runner ups

2 years after big surgery, no physical ailments

 

What on earth could cause that drastic of a change to the greatest player in the history of the game during his prime years with no physical ailments? Yes, I know he won 5 times in 2013 and I know that all 5 were significant tournaments. This is the only year that even allows you to have an argument. In 2010 there were no injuries and he fell off the map. Starting in 2010 he started withdrawing from tournaments. Why the sudden change?

 

The reason people "ignore" 2013 is because the vast majority of statistics and the "eye ball test" from 2010-2012 support the idea that the scandal or some other mental issues (the idea that he was losing distance and the newer breed of golfers is a good theory as well) have affected Tiger Woods drastically. The evidence now of him leaking info of his progress and hinting that he may never be able to come back is a DRASTIC change from the Tiger Woods you see in your eyes. This is the guy who said 2nd place was unacceptable earlier in life. The same guy that any challenge to the idea that he was indestructible was met with cold stares and short, curt answers that reeked of insecurity (which is not uncommon with great athletes anyway).... what changed? Please bring me more than, "look at 2013" to change my mind. I'm open to change on this. I don't have a dog in the fight.

 

He won 8 times in 2012-2013. Prior to that he was changing his swing. Its not the first time that he's had an off year while changing his swing. In 1998 he didn't play as well because he was changing his swing. Then he went on to play incredible golf.

 

In 2004 he changed his swing again and had an off year...before playing incredible golf.

 

In 2010-2011 he was changing his swing, dealing with a personal issue that is still talked about to this day, so it's understandable that he would struggle. And this time his new swing was drastically different that the old one, so it took longer.

 

In 2012 and 2013 he won 8 times. In 2013 he won 5 times and people still brush it off. Meanwhile, if anyone else wins 5 times they are immediately deemed the next big thing.

 

However, the swing that he changed to obviously wasn't a good fit and it led to back injuries so he had to change it again. Which leads us to the last two injury plagued seasons. But if you look at the end of last year, he was hitting it as long as he has since 2009, his irons were crisp, he overcame the chipping issues that plagued him and in his last tournament he was in contention.

 

If anything, history suggests that he's going to win again in the near future. And that's based on facts. Just look at the years when he made swing changes and then the years after those swing changes took affect.

[Ewmcdade]

God I miss Tiger. Just being at a course with him, you could feel the electricity. So many goosebump moments. He was Superman out there.

 

[Golfguye67]

Shows what a mental monster the game is. He simply isn't the same man between the ears that he once was.

[Lefty_3Jack]

Wow I had forgotten all about him winning 3 times in 2012. I had it in my mind that he won his own thing in December 2012 and won 5 times in 2013. That goes to show that even with 3 & 5 win seasons he's not considered successful unless he wins a major that year.

[gvogel]

And that tells you everything you need to know about the state of golf in the consciousness of sports fan.

 

Once Tiger is well and truly out of the picture, golf can return to the backwaters of pro sports, somewhere a notch above tennis.

Sadly, this will probably be true. Golf has always been seen as elitist and closed off, and frankly most golfers I know don't do anything to dispute it.

 

I am always puzzled by these comments. Tiger was here, kicked some butt and now he is irrelevant just like any athlete from any sport. Yet, most Tiger fans refuse to give in to the fact that he is, in fact, irrelevant. They hold on to the fact that if he was in a tournament that 'numbers' would be up, how he grew the sport etc.... yet, in the same breath, complain about pace of play, the price of equipment, cost of going to an event etc.

 

My love for the sport has grown over the years because I love it... not because of Jack or Tiger or Jordan et al. I watch from Thursday to Sunday because I like to watch golf not because of who's playing.

 

Tiger fans are all but HOPING golf reverts back to the backwaters of pro sports and to more of an elitist, closed off sport so they can remember the good ole days when Tiger stomped everyone up and down the fairways. They want to stand up and proclaim their 'I TOLD YOU SO'S'!!!

 

Like anyone famous or those who've dominated their profession we must celebrate what they've done, set the bar for the next superstar and continue to say to the young ones of 20+ years.... "If you only could have seen Tiger.... THAT was special." Then we can have an argument about who is better... Tiger or the kid that is not even born yet.

No Joey. Tiger fans aren't all hoping golf reverts back to anything. In a lot of ways it's never left. Ask any non-golfer, it's never changed, then folks in the game don't do anything to convince them that it's different. I've seen juniors treated with disdain on the course, ladies who are looked at crossly on the course when they're just trying to have fun. All for the want to go back to the "traditions of the game." Throw a little non-tradition in there and people puff up and say, "That's what's wrong with the game!" It's not how people remember it. Because it's different now. One day, Tiger will take his place with the Legends of the game, right along with Phil and a few others.

 

I've golfed since 2002 and I'm addicted as anyone. But I'm not blind to what I see. My son was moving slowly and got "spoken" to by another golfer. Sternly. I had to get in a guy's face. He mumbled something about "Tiger F-in Woods ruined the game." This is the elitist mentality. No one can golf except for the anointed ones. That turns people off and I had to convince my son to keep golfing no matter what the mean man said. So to me, I've seen it. You may not have, but it was in my face and I had to potentially go to blows to play freaking golf with my kid? Seriously?

 

I don't think that golf is elitist. America's Cup yacht racing is elitist. I play lots of golf on municipal courses, and I meet all kinds of people. Sure, some of the guys at private clubs are elitist, and that may apply to the folks at the USGA and Augusta. So, the people at the ruling level of the game may be elitist.

 

The guy that spoke to your son was a jerk. There are plenty of jerks around, on and off the golf course. Some guy thinks he is a pretty good player and has been around the game and wants to play faster, and he comes across as a jerk. But there are plenty of common good people playing golf.

[bscinstnct]

"It may be elitist, and perhaps that’s what golf needs. Let golf be elitist. When I say “aspire,” that’s a positive word. Let people work hard and aspire to some day be able to play golf. To afford to play it. They’re trying to teach golf to people who will never be able to really play it. They’re trying too hard."

 

-Donald Trump

 

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/donald-trump-let-golf-be-elitist

[Dpavs]

I don't know why everyone thinks golf is different than anything else. The truth is you can look at any sport amateurs participate in and see the same thing occurring. Go to an intramural hockey or basketball or baseball game or what have you. Find that player that is not quite up to speed with the field and people roll their eyes, murmur and generally are not happy with them. That's more about how people in general react, right or wrong, and certainly not something peculiar to golfers.

[mukster]

Wouldn't all of this Tiger controversy be put to rest if Tiger in fact just won something again?

[bscinstnct]

Wouldn't all of this Tiger controversy be put to rest if Tiger in fact just won something again?

 

What controversy?

 

 

 

; )

[savarini]

What happened to Wayne Gretzky, Micheal Jordan, Steve Young & David Duval and so many other top athletes ? No one stays on top forever " father time is undefeated". Golf has tried to find another transcendent star it really has. They have labeled them all the next Tiger (epic fail so they have stopped). Once the PGA realized hey these other guys can't win at a Tiger like percentage & they aren't as exciting to watch for the casual consumer. Golf then went to the "these guys are good sales pitch"(nice try). Sports are about superstars not a bunch of guys who are good. I hope Tiger comes back and wins several events . Lets be real Tiger withstood more pressure than any of these young guns and still kept winning . We are talking about Tiger the way we still talk about Micheal Jordan because until something brighter faster & more exciting comes along its the closets thing we have to true sports greatness. Someone you can bet on week in and week out to show up and show out!! Tiger woods is the gold standard for playing golf for this time period.

[Titleist 670]

If you can put aside your love (or hate) for Tiger Woods I think you can see him setting up a narrative that is allowing him to step away from competitive golf with the aura of "what could have been if he'd have stayed healthy". I believe the reality is he is not as good as he once was and he is done trying to figure it out, struggle and battle with everyone watching him. I don't say this in a negative manner, he is not Brett Favre, Muhammad Ali or other great athletes who continued to play past their prime to allow all of us to see them struggle. He's not wired that way because he has been told he's the greatest of all time and in his mind that means not allowing us to see him struggle.

 

This. Tiger has been quite loaded with defense mechanisms since the scandal. Yes, there is truth to him being injured, swing changes, etc. but he is clearly not the same golfer he was prior to 2009, even with the great season he had in 2013.

 

He's also shown a willingness to move the goal posts - in that press conference last year, suddenly 18 majors wasn't the goal all along. He'll have you believe he's accomplished all he ever wanted to, yet those close to him say he was obsessed with Jack's record and his preparation for majors would seem to completely corroborate that.

[Titleist 670]

 

However, the swing that he changed to obviously wasn't a good fit and it led to back injuries so he had to change it again. Which leads us to the last two injury plagued seasons. But if you look at the end of last year, he was hitting it as long as he has since 2009, his irons were crisp, he overcame the chipping issues that plagued him and in his last tournament he was in contention.

 

 

He was in contention - until he shank/bladed a chip on the back nine to completely fall out of it.