New $500 Flightscope personal launch monitor (MERGED)

[b.helts]

It is possible that the Mevo is going to use the camera on the iphone to measure spin and that's why the stickers are required?

Nope.

You aren't going to measure spin with an iPhone camera. You need a pretty focused setup for a camera based system. If it was possible, the market would be flooded with competition for Foresight and Skytrak.

 

Thanks! I didn't know and as others have said, it doesn't make sense that it's iPhone only. I guess radar bounces off the metallic stickers in a different way than the ball's edge? Is that what they are for?

[ThinkingPlus]

It is possible that the Mevo is going to use the camera on the iphone to measure spin and that's why the stickers are required?

Nope.

You aren't going to measure spin with an iPhone camera. You need a pretty focused setup for a camera based system. If it was possible, the market would be flooded with competition for Foresight and Skytrak.

 

Thanks! I didn't know and as others have said, it doesn't make sense that it's iPhone only. I guess radar bounces off the metallic stickers in a different way than the ball's edge? Is that what they are for?

 

Generally metals provide a higher cross section for radars (more transmitted radio waves are reflected back to the receiver).

[b.helts]

It is possible that the Mevo is going to use the camera on the iphone to measure spin and that's why the stickers are required?

Nope.

You aren't going to measure spin with an iPhone camera. You need a pretty focused setup for a camera based system. If it was possible, the market would be flooded with competition for Foresight and Skytrak.

 

Thanks! I didn't know and as others have said, it doesn't make sense that it's iPhone only. I guess radar bounces off the metallic stickers in a different way than the ball's edge? Is that what they are for?

 

Generally metals provide a higher cross section for radars (more transmitted radio waves are reflected back to the receiver).

 

Thanks!

[mn44]

For what its worth I have a spare iphone 5c (blue) that works flawlessly. Took 5 days for the battery to die. If you want to use it as a phone just pop in your sim card...for the MEVO you won't need a sim card at all.

 

$100 if anyone wants it....broken ones go for $70-100 on ebay (used for parts)

[Sean2]

The website says something about automated video recording, but provides no details. Is there a camera built into the device?

[rileyprather]

The website says something about automated video recording, but provides no details. Is there a camera built into the device?

 

It uses the iPhone camera from what I understand.

[QuickFeet]

has anyone asked if Metalic Sharpies would be good alternative to stickers?? I'm sure FS would say no because they want to sell the stickers at $$$ , anyone have an idea?

 

Unlikely, FS isn't in the sticker business. The dots help the radar receiver by reflecting a stronger signal.

 

$10 per thousand 0.25" diameter foil dots. Not sure how durable these will be but for a range ball that is a single use, they may work just fine.

 

https://www.chromalabel.com/products/1-4-color-code-dots?variant=452195053

[k14]

The dots will be the same as the ones the Flightscope Xi uses to track balls when used in indoor mode. I use these with my flightscope Xi. I have had it 3 months now and used a total of 8 dots (hit probably 1000 or so shots on it). I wouldn't be too concerned about running out if you're hitting into a net. On the range is another story, the Xi doesn't need the dots in outdoor mode. I have read that it works using a silver sharpie but haven't tried it myself.

 

Not sure if those dots linked above will work or not. The dots they supply are like aluminium foil, the dots above look like just silver coloured paper. Hard to tell in the photos though.

[trumb1mj1]

If anyone from Flightscope is listening... I would pay $1k for the same device if it measured spin access...

[QuickFeet]

The dots will be the same as the ones the Flightscope Xi uses to track balls when used in indoor mode. I use these with my flightscope Xi. I have had it 3 months now and used a total of 8 dots (hit probably 1000 or so shots on it). I wouldn't be too concerned about running out if you're hitting into a net. On the range is another story, the Xi doesn't need the dots in outdoor mode. I have read that it works using a silver sharpie but haven't tried it myself.

 

Not sure if those dots linked above will work or not. The dots they supply are like aluminium foil, the dots above look like just silver coloured paper. Hard to tell in the photos though.

 

Could be but from the website product description:

 

HOW SHINY ARE THESE DOTS?

 

Depending on the color you choose will determine how much shine there will be. Our Standard, Specialty & exclusive eaRth Tones colors are all made of a semi-glossy, paper label stock, which gives them a slight luster. The fluorescent (neon) colors are made of a matte, paper label stock. The colors are bright and truly glowing but don't have a gloss to them. Finally, our metallic colors are made of foil-coated, paper label stock that gives them a noteworthy metallic shine as seen in our metallic variety kit.

 

TrackMan provides the same heavy foil dots as FS. I used to have a direct source to those dots but that URL was on my work computer which I no longer have access to.

[goatbarn]

If anyone from Flightscope is listening... I would pay $1k for the same device if it measured spin access...

 

Spin axis measurement via doppler radar requires long range radar, not short range, like the Mevo. Doppler units that track the ball through the air obtain spin axis via curvature (first 30 yards) and the collision model. It is not "directly" measured.

[trumb1mj1]

I guess for my net setup I'll be stuck with the camera system options like skytrak. Still interested to see what happens in this space now that a $500 item has come to market--How will trackman respond? Can a SkyTrack competitor go lower in price with a camera system?

[poppman2142]

If anyone from Flightscope is listening... I would pay $1k for the same device if it measured spin access...

 

+1

[wundej]

I guess for my net setup I'll be stuck with the camera system options like skytrak. Still interested to see what happens in this space now that a $500 item has come to market--How will trackman respond? Can a SkyTrack competitor go lower in price with a camera system?

Trackman doesn't seem to be bothered with the consumer market. I would think they would have had a response when the Xi series came out. I have a feeling that they are under the perception that a lower cost model would devalue their brand. Some business models are strange, but I guess if you are getting $20k for a unit, there isn't much reason to try to sell in quantity.

[trumb1mj1]

I guess for my net setup I'll be stuck with the camera system options like skytrak. Still interested to see what happens in this space now that a $500 item has come to market--How will trackman respond? Can a SkyTrack competitor go lower in price with a camera system?

Trackman doesn't seem to be bothered with the consumer market. I would think they would have had a response when the Xi series came out. I have a feeling that they are under the perception that a lower cost model would devalue their brand. Some business models are strange, but I guess if you are getting $20k for a unit, there isn't much reason to try to sell in quantity.

 

If the competition provides everything Trackman does at a fraction of the price, they'll need to respond. This space fascinates me...

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

I guess for my net setup I'll be stuck with the camera system options like skytrak. Still interested to see what happens in this space now that a $500 item has come to market--How will trackman respond? Can a SkyTrack competitor go lower in price with a camera system?

Trackman doesn't seem to be bothered with the consumer market. I would think they would have had a response when the Xi series came out. I have a feeling that they are under the perception that a lower cost model would devalue their brand. Some business models are strange, but I guess if you are getting $20k for a unit, there isn't much reason to try to sell in quantity.

 

If the competition provides everything Trackman does at a fraction of the price, they'll need to respond. This space fascinates me...

 

I don't think Trackman really cares about a $500 unit. They're selling to an audience that doesn't think twice about dropping $20K. My buddy is a baseball scout in the MLB and they order them 10 at a time for the minor league teams and as redundancy systems. It's two totally different worlds.

[trumb1mj1]

I guess for my net setup I'll be stuck with the camera system options like skytrak. Still interested to see what happens in this space now that a $500 item has come to market--How will trackman respond? Can a SkyTrack competitor go lower in price with a camera system?

Trackman doesn't seem to be bothered with the consumer market. I would think they would have had a response when the Xi series came out. I have a feeling that they are under the perception that a lower cost model would devalue their brand. Some business models are strange, but I guess if you are getting $20k for a unit, there isn't much reason to try to sell in quantity.

 

If the competition provides everything Trackman does at a fraction of the price, they'll need to respond. This space fascinates me...

 

I don't think Trackman really cares about a $500 unit. They're selling to an audience that doesn't think twice about dropping $20K. My buddy is a baseball scout in the MLB and they order them 10 at a time for the minor league teams and as redundancy systems. It's two totally different worlds.

 

While some people are stupid, I can't imagine even those people paying $20k if the same tech exists for $1k.

 

It's like flat screen TVs. Say Sony came out with the first flat screen tv and sold it for $10k. Then a ton of competitors came out and started selling tvs with the same dimensions and features for $800 but Sony continued to sell them for $10k. Would people (even a money hemorrhaging baseball scout) buy the Sony TVs because they were first? I would say "no" but people surprise me all the time...

 

Trackman has a good thing going right now (brand recognition, great product, etc.) but sooner or later someone will blow this space up with an affordable unit that does all of the same things. Trackman can either react or get left behind. It's just the nature of technology.

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

I guess for my net setup I'll be stuck with the camera system options like skytrak. Still interested to see what happens in this space now that a $500 item has come to market--How will trackman respond? Can a SkyTrack competitor go lower in price with a camera system?

Trackman doesn't seem to be bothered with the consumer market. I would think they would have had a response when the Xi series came out. I have a feeling that they are under the perception that a lower cost model would devalue their brand. Some business models are strange, but I guess if you are getting $20k for a unit, there isn't much reason to try to sell in quantity.

 

If the competition provides everything Trackman does at a fraction of the price, they'll need to respond. This space fascinates me...

 

I don't think Trackman really cares about a $500 unit. They're selling to an audience that doesn't think twice about dropping $20K. My buddy is a baseball scout in the MLB and they order them 10 at a time for the minor league teams and as redundancy systems. It's two totally different worlds.

 

While some people are stupid, I can't imagine even those people paying $20k if the same tech exists for $1k.

 

It's like flat screen TVs. Say Sony came out with the first flat screen tv and sold it for $10k. Then a ton of competitors came out and started selling tvs with the same dimensions and features for $800 but Sony continued to sell them for $10k. Would people (even a money hemorrhaging baseball scout) buy the Sony TVs because they were first? I would say "no" but people surprise me all the time...

 

Trackman has a good thing going right now (brand recognition, great product, etc.) but sooner or later someone will blow this space up with an affordable unit that does all of the same things. Trackman can either react or get left behind. It's just the nature of technology.

 

I'm sure it will happen eventually but a $500 unit isn't even on TrackMan's radar.

 

When you're an MLB team or a PGA Tour player, neither of which could care less about $20K, you're looking for the best of the best regardless to cost or whether or not TrackMan is the best or just perceived as the best. It's a lot like us mere mortal club ho's buying a $300 driver shaft because it's better in our mind than the $100 driver shaft.

 

The MLB is a little more complicated because you've got probably a few hundred TrackMan operators trained (do an indeed search to see how many teams are currently looking for them too), you've got internal systems integrated with TrackMan, you've got the TV broadcasts set up with TrackMan, etc. etc. etc. so the cost of the actual unit is the smallest cost and you're probably not going to see a change anytime soon. I would imagine that the percentage of TrackMan sales that are generated from professional teams and athletes is way bigger than those sales coming from you or I, probably 98% to 2%.

 

I think the new FlightScope unit is going to create a space and not grab market share from TrackMan. The new FlightScope will kill SkyTrak and will be a welcome addition to the golf world if it works well in doors.

[somaplr]

I guess for my net setup I'll be stuck with the camera system options like skytrak. Still interested to see what happens in this space now that a $500 item has come to market--How will trackman respond? Can a SkyTrack competitor go lower in price with a camera system?

 

Trackman worrying about a $500 product that is like Ferrari worrying about the FR-S

 

It's not even on their....radar (I'll let myself out).

[trumb1mj1]

Trackman has absolutely cornered the market. People call GC2, Flightscope and GameGolf "trackman" because even novices know the name and assume anything that simulates golf ball flight is a "trackman". They have deals with software companies and professional sports leagues. They have a great product that offers accurate club and ball data.

 

But...

 

Nothing about their product is a secret or unique. They have patents on the way they measure spin but others are already doing this quite accurately and coming up with new ways to do it.

 

Trackman worrying about a $500 that is like Ferrari worrying about the FR-S

 

It's not even on their....radar (I'll let myself out).

 

This is the exact sort of thinking that ruins a good thing. If they don't innovate or adjust their pricing model as more products reach the market, they absolutely will be taken down. It happens ALL THE TIME in many different industries. We're not talking about a status thing here like your Ferrari example. We're talking about accuracy, innovation and pricing.

[somaplr]

Trackman has absolutely cornered the market. People call GC2, Flightscope and GameGolf "trackman" because even novices know the name and assume anything that simulates golf ball flight is a "trackman". They have deals with software companies and professional sports leagues. They have a great product that offers accurate club and ball data.

 

But...

 

Nothing about their product is a secret or unique. They have patents on the way they measure spin but others are already doing this quite accurately and coming up with new ways to do it.

 

Trackman worrying about a $500 that is like Ferrari worrying about the FR-S

 

It's not even on their....radar (I'll let myself out).

 

This is the exact sort of thinking that ruins a good thing. If they don't innovate or adjust their pricing model as more products reach the market, they absolutely will be taken down. It happens ALL THE TIME in many different industries. We're not talking about a status thing here like your Ferrari example. We're talking about accuracy, innovation and pricing.

 

Trackman has Fredrik Tuxen, who is basically one of the most expert radar engineers in the world on their team plus leaders in software development and integration, I think they'll be ok.

 

The Trackman team isn't just a bunch of Danish men sitting around putting chips into plastic boxes - in less than 15 years they have become a behemoth of a private corporation and are growing at like 30% YoY in revenue. They are going to be just fine and aren't worried about anything - when Flightscope steals their PGA contract then you can worry about them.

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

Trackman has absolutely cornered the market. People call GC2, Flightscope and GameGolf "trackman" because even novices know the name and assume anything that simulates golf ball flight is a "trackman". They have deals with software companies and professional sports leagues. They have a great product that offers accurate club and ball data.

 

But...

 

Nothing about their product is a secret or unique. They have patents on the way they measure spin but others are already doing this quite accurately and coming up with new ways to do it.

 

Trackman worrying about a $500 that is like Ferrari worrying about the FR-S

 

It's not even on their....radar (I'll let myself out).

 

This is the exact sort of thinking that ruins a good thing. If they don't innovate or adjust their pricing model as more products reach the market, they absolutely will be taken down. It happens ALL THE TIME in many different industries. We're not talking about a status thing here like your Ferrari example. We're talking about accuracy, innovation and pricing.

 

This technology is all old. Flightscope uses missile defense technology they developed over 20 years ago so you're probably not going to see much innovation in terms of how the data is collected. I think that a lot of the innovation that TrackMan offers to it's targeted clients is behind the scenes data and systems integration as well as training and support that essentially means nothing to you and I which is why I don't think TrackMan is going to compete with a $500 unit anytime soon.

 

You can talk about how the lack of innovation and the pricing model of TrackMan is going to ruin their brand all you want but you're trying to compare apples to oranges. Like an earlier post said you're trying to say that Scion dropping their entry level car price from 15K to 10K is going to affect the Ferrari market and it just isn't going to happen.

 

Now as far as my baseball analogy goes if Flightscope Strike were to lower their price from $18K to $10K that might affect the sales of the $20K TrackMan but that isn't what we're looking at here with the introduction of a limited function $500 unit.

[trumb1mj1]

You guys are effectively predicting no competitor will ever affect how Trackman prices their hardware. That's strange. No tech company has ever been immune to competition.

[somaplr]

You guys are effectively predicting no competitor will ever affect how Trackman prices their hardware. That's strange. No tech company has ever been immune to competition.

 

It's definitely totally not immune to competition...far from it. But if you think a $500 simple radar product is going to change the way Trackman does business, you're nuts.

 

Let's be honest, the ONLY reason people are foaming at the mouth even a little bit over this is because it has the Flightscope name on it. The Mevo is basically the ES14 - nobody ever lost their mind over that.

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

You guys are effectively predicting no competitor will ever affect how Trackman prices their hardware. That's strange. No tech company has ever been immune to competition.

 

If you read my last post you'll see that I said if Flightscope Strike lowered their price it would affect TrackMan. If Flightscope X3 had a lower price tag it would affect TrackMan's golf application but you're trying to compare a very limited $500 launch monitor to a TrackMan and it isn't a good comparison.

 

By your logic Flightscope has a flawed pricing model because they released the X3 at $15K and your argument is based on Flightscope introducing a $500 unit. They didn't introduce the two models at the same time to compete against each other. They released two separate models to satisfy two totally different markets.

[trumb1mj1]

I don't think the mevo will take the top off of the market. I'm just saying, as long as companies keep trying, a device that provides all the same features will come along to disturb this market and price point.

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

I don't think the mevo will take the top off of the market. I'm just saying, as long as companies keep trying, a device that provides all the same features will come along to disturb this market and price point.

 

Maybe but we're talking about an industry that consists of thousands of units sold every year and it seems like you're trying to compare it to the electronics industry that sells hundreds of millions of units. I think the defense industry has already established a price for this sort of technology so golf companies aren't going to have enough leverage to drive cost out of the components they buy in order to make launch monitors.

 

I'm pretty sure you're not going to see a unit that will compete with TrackMan or the top offering of Flightscope at a drastically reduced price during the next several years. I think you will start seeing more <$1K units but they will sacrifice capabilities of some sort.

 

I think the best shot you have at seeing a cheaper version of a launch monitor that offers all the data of TrackMan(both club and ball data) is going to be a camera system and they come with their limitations in terms of where and how you can use them.

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

I don't think the mevo will take the top off of the market. I'm just saying, as long as companies keep trying, a device that provides all the same features will come along to disturb this market and price point.

 

Maybe but we're talking about an industry that consists of thousands of units sold every year and it seems like you're trying to compare it to the electronics industry that sells hundreds of millions of units. I think the defense industry has already established a price for this sort of technology so golf companies aren't going to have enough leverage to drive cost out of the components they buy in order to make launch monitors.

 

I'm pretty sure you're not going to see a unit that will compete with TrackMan or the top offering of Flightscope at a drastically reduced price during the next several years. I think you will start seeing more <$1K units but they will sacrifice capabilities of some sort.

 

I think the best shot you have at seeing a cheaper version of a launch monitor that offers all the data of TrackMan(both club and ball data) is going to be a camera system and they come with their limitations in terms of where and how you can use them.

 

BTW I hope you're right. I shelled out $13K for my Flightscope last year and I'd love to pay less when I'm ready for a new one but I'm not holding my breath.

[magmatt]

Any update on this? I know it was set to release march 1st. I can't wait to get my hands on it. Its between this and the Skytrak

[mmack067]

The dots will be the same as the ones the Flightscope Xi uses to track balls when used in indoor mode. I use these with my flightscope Xi. I have had it 3 months now and used a total of 8 dots (hit probably 1000 or so shots on it). I wouldn't be too concerned about running out if you're hitting into a net. On the range is another story, the Xi doesn't need the dots in outdoor mode. I have read that it works using a silver sharpie but haven't tried it myself.

 

Not sure if those dots linked above will work or not. The dots they supply are like aluminium foil, the dots above look like just silver coloured paper. Hard to tell in the photos though.

 

Could be but from the website product description:

 

HOW SHINY ARE THESE DOTS?

 

Depending on the color you choose will determine how much shine there will be. Our Standard, Specialty & exclusive eaRth Tones colors are all made of a semi-glossy, paper label stock, which gives them a slight luster. The fluorescent (neon) colors are made of a matte, paper label stock. The colors are bright and truly glowing but don't have a gloss to them. Finally, our metallic colors are made of foil-coated, paper label stock that gives them a noteworthy metallic shine as seen in our metallic variety kit.

 

TrackMan provides the same heavy foil dots as FS. I used to have a direct source to those dots but that URL was on my work computer which I no longer have access to.

 

I saw a while back that FS suggested to source 3M metallic tape if you don't have access to their dots. I bet a simple hole punch and HVAC tape would do the trick too.