Tiger Woods: "No Timetable for my Return to Golf..."

[bscinstnct]

"There are plenty of specific shots and instances" but I have to go searching for them? And how exactly do you correlate these shots to his "mental issues" exactly? And not, for example, a mechanical problem with his swing? You make these claims but you can't give us 1 specific example and provide some support for your claim? Stop making it then. It's worthless.

 

Yeah, of course Tiger had to overcome mental challenges. Especially after sitting out for 2 years, coming off a spinal fusion, new swing, etc. My point is that's to be expected and totally normal. When you spoke of Tiger's "mental issues" you made it sound like an ongoing, abnormal problem that they he may or may not be able to overcome. My contention is that he still one of the more mentally strong on Tour. 7 top 10s and 12 top 25s in 18 tournaments (with a win at Tour Champ., 2nd at PGA Championship, T6 at The Open) seems decent for his first year back, no?

 

You make it sound like he's struggling to keep his card.

 

Many players actually perform better on the course than the range? I'm going to have to question your golf literacy if you actually believe this. It's two totally different animals, and an apples to oranges comparison. But just in terms of general ball striking, no above average Tour pro struggles on the range. I promise you they'd all love to carry the care free mentality they have on the range, to the course. I think Trevino once said that if he could bring his range swing to the course he'd be #1.

 

Frankly I don't think your Tiger range to Tiger course comparison is all that accurate either. Did you watch all of his range sessions? How? And we saw Tiger hit plenty of fairways off the first tee this year.

 

Again, you've presented no concrete evidence that Tiger had mental issues that were "holding him back in key pressure moments". At least not beyond what every golfer faces.

 

Not one piece of empirical evidence. You just keep repeating the same "theories" over and over and over and over [and over] with no support.

 

Stop being so lazy… the media and reporting on his on course problems being “mental” are fairly common place. Tip: Research Jamie Diaz highlighting Tiger’s mental issues stating Tiger is “struggling between the ears”.

 

Oh if the "media" says it, it must be true! Jamie Diaz said it? Why didn't you say so earlier...that's iron clad proof right there.

 

This is what your argument has come to...citing Jamie Diaz' opinion as evidence for Tiger's "mental issues".

 

If I ever claimed that any player had "mental issues" preventing them from winning, I would at least be able to articulate a decent explanation and provide some evidence for my statement. I definitely wouldn't double down after that player WON. LOL.

 

Lazy? Telling me to go find support for your argument is lazy. Comical really.

 

You've got nothing Cool Runnings. I rest my case. :D

 

Actually… (and correctly) I say you’re “lazy” because I’ve ALREADY documented and highlighted MULTIPLE examples of Tiger’s mental frailties throughout the year. Again, don’t be so lazy, I’ve done the work already so I’m not repeating it, especially for someone that is so biased to their own insecure story that they’re too lazy to challenge what I’ve already highlighted.

 

And when I quote Jamie Diaz with his supporting comments on Tiger’s “mental issues” I do so because he’s one of the most respected golf journalists today while he’s also a known big Tiger fan. At least I’m able to bring in an outside opinion of someone that is well informed, highly respected and (the most important distinction, ready) and who’s far more CREDIBLE even with a rational bias for Tiger as opposed to your clearly irrational bias.

 

Mic drop.

 

 

 

 

[straightshot7]

"There are plenty of specific shots and instances" but I have to go searching for them? And how exactly do you correlate these shots to his "mental issues" exactly? And not, for example, a mechanical problem with his swing? You make these claims but you can't give us 1 specific example and provide some support for your claim? Stop making it then. It's worthless.

 

Yeah, of course Tiger had to overcome mental challenges. Especially after sitting out for 2 years, coming off a spinal fusion, new swing, etc. My point is that's to be expected and totally normal. When you spoke of Tiger's "mental issues" you made it sound like an ongoing, abnormal problem that they he may or may not be able to overcome. My contention is that he still one of the more mentally strong on Tour. 7 top 10s and 12 top 25s in 18 tournaments (with a win at Tour Champ., 2nd at PGA Championship, T6 at The Open) seems decent for his first year back, no?

 

You make it sound like he's struggling to keep his card.

 

Many players actually perform better on the course than the range? I'm going to have to question your golf literacy if you actually believe this. It's two totally different animals, and an apples to oranges comparison. But just in terms of general ball striking, no above average Tour pro struggles on the range. I promise you they'd all love to carry the care free mentality they have on the range, to the course. I think Trevino once said that if he could bring his range swing to the course he'd be #1.

 

Frankly I don't think your Tiger range to Tiger course comparison is all that accurate either. Did you watch all of his range sessions? How? And we saw Tiger hit plenty of fairways off the first tee this year.

 

Again, you've presented no concrete evidence that Tiger had mental issues that were "holding him back in key pressure moments". At least not beyond what every golfer faces.

 

Not one piece of empirical evidence. You just keep repeating the same "theories" over and over and over and over [and over] with no support.

 

Stop being so lazy… the media and reporting on his on course problems being “mental” are fairly common place. Tip: Research Jamie Diaz highlighting Tiger’s mental issues stating Tiger is “struggling between the ears”.

 

Oh if the "media" says it, it must be true! Jamie Diaz said it? Why didn't you say so earlier...that's iron clad proof right there.

 

This is what your argument has come to...citing Jamie Diaz' opinion as evidence for Tiger's "mental issues".

 

If I ever claimed that any player had "mental issues" preventing them from winning, I would at least be able to articulate a decent explanation and provide some evidence for my statement. I definitely wouldn't double down after that player WON. LOL.

 

Lazy? Telling me to go find support for your argument is lazy. Comical really.

 

You've got nothing Cool Runnings. I rest my case. :D

 

Actually… (and correctly) I say you’re “lazy” because I’ve ALREADY documented and highlighted MULTIPLE examples of Tiger’s mental frailties throughout the year. Again, don’t be so lazy, I’ve done the work already so I’m not repeating it, especially for someone that is so biased to their own insecure story that they’re too lazy to challenge what I’ve already highlighted.

 

And when I quote Jamie Diaz with his supporting comments on Tiger’s “mental issues” I do so because he’s one of the most respected golf journalists today while he’s also a known big Tiger fan. At least I’m able to bring in an outside opinion of someone that is well informed, highly respected and (the most important distinction, ready) and who’s far more CREDIBLE even with a rational bias for Tiger as opposed to your clearly irrational bias.

 

Mic drop.

 

"Mic drop" :lol:

 

Tiger dropped the mic on your empty babble when he WON the Tour Championship.

 

You've "documented"? Apparently you don't realize that your own biased interpretation of Tiger's inner mental state while you're watching on TELEVISION doesn't count as actual evidence of anything.

 

You know in the world of science, medicine, etc. when they run actually studies with thousands of participants and use empirical tests to try to determine what's true and what's false. Even in those studies they don't conclude something as being definitive until it's been backed by multiple, independent studies.

 

And yet, you somehow actually believe that your individual perspective is INFALLIBLE and you're somehow capable of reading Tiger's mind. I hope for the sake of humanity that you're just trolling at this point.

 

I can just say my interpretation is the opposite of yours. Who would be right? Neither of us. Neither of us can be relied upon to accurately discern Tiger's inner mental state.

 

But when he won the Tour Championship, that was an empirical example of him doing what you weren't sure he could do.

 

Take care Cool Runnings. I look forward to hopefully seeing more of your entertaining posts in the future. It's like reading an article from the Onion.

[bscinstnct]

Shilgy

"So you think Els and company were actually "afraid" of Tiger? Versus Rahm is just a fan? Lol."

 

Just think a little deeper about your opening line above… Rahm was a child who likely had idolising pictures of Tiger on his wall when growing up. Els in comparison was slightly older than Tiger and viewed Tiger as a direct competitor and threat - so completely different. I can safely say Els didn't have any fan/idolising posters of Tiger on his wall. Els perception of Tiger were also formed through multiple direct experiences of being beaten by him which would naturally leave some form of competitive scar tissue. Also, there are many many older pros from the Els/Tiger era who've openly stated they were often 'fearful' of a prowling Tiger. Today we hear the exact OPPOSITE from these fearless young guns, they have ZERO years of competitive scar tissue compared to Els & Co from the previous era and todays young guns openly want to play with and beat Tiger at his very best, and many of them have this season and recent years.

 

The dynamics between how both Rahm & Els grew up viewing Tiger then/today are worlds apart for the reasons and dynamics outlined. I do agree both Rahm & Els likely hold a common 'respect' for Tiger the golfer and his achievements, which is normal and natural.

 

Cmon, you should know this stuff.

this is like looking at a penny and saying you see heads and I see tails. Ernie and Company as you said were beat down(your phrase competitive scar tissue) by him for years and became intimidated. Intimidated, fearful, idolized, they all result in the same thing on the golf course. Belief that if they acknowledge the issue tiger will beat them.

 

"this is like looking at a penny and saying you see heads and I see tails".… what I detailed above is the historical reality of how Rahm & Els have come to gain their perspectives on Tiger with one common link of respect for his playing record.

 

What isn't debatable (if one has even a primitive understanding of psychology) is the RESULT & manner that Rahm BEAT Tiger. Not only this undeniable FACT but doing so in a such an impressive manner oozing confidence in an Alpha-dog tone. Rahm's on the "golf course" performance was the exact OPPOSITE of a player "fearful" of his playing competitor. RESULTS & FACTS don't lie my friend.

 

Here's another layer of evidence further disproving your clearly biased theory.

 

Jon Rahm - Interview post Ryder Cup singles match after beating Tiger.

–––––––

"I played arguably the best golf of my life, particularly the last hole. I hit a perfect drive, wedge shot and then to make that putt, to be honest I didn't see the ball go in, I just knew it was going in."

–––––––

 

Again, is that the evidence of play & mindset of someone "fearful" of Tiger? As I said above, if one has even a primitive understanding of psychology the answer is OF COURSE NOT.

 

But please carry on ignoring these facts if it makes you sleep better at night ;)

 

Disagree completely. Alpha dogs don't make this statement " I told myself not to watch his shots , not to look him in the eye , just head down play my game ".

 

That's what a guy does to try to bandaid his mind to face an alpha dog. You've got it backwards.

 

Rahm soothed his fear and beat tiger. Sure. A 42 year old snaggle toothed Cat. Could he have kept the pee from running down his leg vs the 22 year old version ? Lol. We both know the answer. Rahm isnt dumb. Hedidwhat hadtobe done to win. But it's similar to holding your nose to swim or closing your eyes in a horror flick. He didn't look so as to not trigger his flight reflex.

 

Once again, if you know anything about psychology (and this is my field of expertise), when a person/player who openly admits to being a boyhood fan of another person/player (as Jon did with Tiger), his comments you highlight are that of a professional explaining his STRATEGY to WIN (and a widely used strategy in case you didn’t know) of keeping Jon focused on HIS game (which includes minimising the openly admitted FAN part of Jon) so to NOT get caught up in Tiger’s game.

 

As I then went on to explain (and I’ll repeat here again)… take this verbal strategy of Jon’s and apply with the other verbal comments when Jon explained (immediately post round) how he was thinking/feeling in the HEAT OF BATTLE. Jon’s mindset, thoughts and internal dialogue were those of a player INSPIRED not restricted by “fear” .

 

This INSPIRED performance from Jon can be corroborated not just by his words, thoughts, internal dialogue revealed in the heat of battle, but also his PHYSIOLOGY in the heat of battle and also the tone & calibre of PERFORMANCE and also the RESULT.

 

All these facts & results clearly demonstrate Jon was INSPIRED by being paired with Tiger which fyi are the OPPOSITE traits of being fearful. To try and spin these self explanatory FACTS & RESULTS it any other way only demonstrates a clear lack of knowledge in even the basics of human & sporting psychology… and/or an unhealthy bias towards Tiger so facts & results then don’t matter.

 

So, psychology is your field of expertise and you don't know that fear is one, if not the most important, emotion for athletes to experience in order to generate high levels of performance?

 

Fear is intertwined into every aspect of sports. Athletes feel fear constantly (along with anger, confidence, elation)

 

Here is a guy you may have heard of experiencing all 4 emotions in a span of seconds

 

 

Rahm was scared as heck and with good reason. And he didn't look at TW because he didn't want to be any more afraid than he already was. But so what if he is afraid? They all get scared.

 

That's why sports is one of life's greatest experiences. The experience of elation and triumph in the face of being scare $hitless.

 

Here you go, guess who?

 

“You think you know the difference between a hero and a coward, Mike?

 

Well, there is no difference between a hero and a coward in what they feel. It’s what they do that makes them different. The hero and the coward feel exactly the same but you have to have the discipline to do what a hero does and to keep yourself from doing what the coward does.”

[Cool Runnings]

bscinstnct

“So, psychology is your field of expertise and you don't know that fear is one, if not the most important, emotion for athletes to experience in order to generate high levels of performance?”

–––––

Yes “fear” can be one of the greatest motivators for athletes (and all people) for that matter, but what’s most important to discern is from what source is it emanating from and to what degree. These distinctions are KEY to understanding it in order to use it as a source of propulsion not limitation that you’re currently and incorrectly believing (due to either your obvious fanboy bias and/or lack of insight on this topic).

Rahm along with Fleetwood and Olsen stated live on Skysports earlier in the RC build up that they (and I quote) “didn’t want to let their team mates down”. THIS is the emanating source of their “fear”… NOT their opponents.

As the evidence, facts and results (that I’ve highlighted previously) clearly prove is that Rahm was more INSPIRED than “fearful” of Tiger.

Sorry.

[Cool Runnings]

"There are plenty of specific shots and instances" but I have to go searching for them? And how exactly do you correlate these shots to his "mental issues" exactly? And not, for example, a mechanical problem with his swing? You make these claims but you can't give us 1 specific example and provide some support for your claim? Stop making it then. It's worthless.

 

Yeah, of course Tiger had to overcome mental challenges. Especially after sitting out for 2 years, coming off a spinal fusion, new swing, etc. My point is that's to be expected and totally normal. When you spoke of Tiger's "mental issues" you made it sound like an ongoing, abnormal problem that they he may or may not be able to overcome. My contention is that he still one of the more mentally strong on Tour. 7 top 10s and 12 top 25s in 18 tournaments (with a win at Tour Champ., 2nd at PGA Championship, T6 at The Open) seems decent for his first year back, no?

 

You make it sound like he's struggling to keep his card.

 

Many players actually perform better on the course than the range? I'm going to have to question your golf literacy if you actually believe this. It's two totally different animals, and an apples to oranges comparison. But just in terms of general ball striking, no above average Tour pro struggles on the range. I promise you they'd all love to carry the care free mentality they have on the range, to the course. I think Trevino once said that if he could bring his range swing to the course he'd be #1.

 

Frankly I don't think your Tiger range to Tiger course comparison is all that accurate either. Did you watch all of his range sessions? How? And we saw Tiger hit plenty of fairways off the first tee this year.

 

Again, you've presented no concrete evidence that Tiger had mental issues that were "holding him back in key pressure moments". At least not beyond what every golfer faces.

 

Not one piece of empirical evidence. You just keep repeating the same "theories" over and over and over and over [and over] with no support.

 

Stop being so lazy… the media and reporting on his on course problems being “mental” are fairly common place. Tip: Research Jamie Diaz highlighting Tiger’s mental issues stating Tiger is “struggling between the ears”.

 

Oh if the "media" says it, it must be true! Jamie Diaz said it? Why didn't you say so earlier...that's iron clad proof right there.

 

This is what your argument has come to...citing Jamie Diaz' opinion as evidence for Tiger's "mental issues".

 

If I ever claimed that any player had "mental issues" preventing them from winning, I would at least be able to articulate a decent explanation and provide some evidence for my statement. I definitely wouldn't double down after that player WON. LOL.

 

Lazy? Telling me to go find support for your argument is lazy. Comical really.

 

You've got nothing Cool Runnings. I rest my case. :D

 

Actually… (and correctly) I say you’re “lazy” because I’ve ALREADY documented and highlighted MULTIPLE examples of Tiger’s mental frailties throughout the year. Again, don’t be so lazy, I’ve done the work already so I’m not repeating it, especially for someone that is so biased to their own insecure story that they’re too lazy to challenge what I’ve already highlighted.

 

And when I quote Jamie Diaz with his supporting comments on Tiger’s “mental issues” I do so because he’s one of the most respected golf journalists today while he’s also a known big Tiger fan. At least I’m able to bring in an outside opinion of someone that is well informed, highly respected and (the most important distinction, ready) and who’s far more CREDIBLE even with a rational bias for Tiger as opposed to your clearly irrational bias.

 

Mic drop.

 

"Mic drop" :lol:

 

Tiger dropped the mic on your empty babble when he WON the Tour Championship.

 

You've "documented"? Apparently you don't realize that your own biased interpretation of Tiger's inner mental state while you're watching on TELEVISION doesn't count as actual evidence of anything.

 

You know in the world of science, medicine, etc. when they run actually studies with thousands of participants and use empirical tests to try to determine what's true and what's false. Even in those studies they don't conclude something as being definitive until it's been backed by multiple, independent studies.

 

And yet, you somehow actually believe that your individual perspective is INFALLIBLE and you're somehow capable of reading Tiger's mind. I hope for the sake of humanity that you're just trolling at this point.

 

I can just say my interpretation is the opposite of yours. Who would be right? Neither of us. Neither of us can be relied upon to accurately discern Tiger's inner mental state.

 

But when he won the Tour Championship, that was an empirical example of him doing what you weren't sure he could do.

 

Take care Cool Runnings. I look forward to hopefully seeing more of your entertaining posts in the future. It's like reading an article from the Onion.

 

To be clear, when I’ve highlighted the multiple examples of Tiger displaying clear mental issues, I clearly framed it as an observation that for Tiger to win he’d have to overcome these mental issues and other issues in order to win… and I was right on this too when seeing his performance at TC.

 

To your first point, I agree on the general premise that two people on the internet arguing who’s right / wrong about Tiger’s mental issues isn’t “scientific” or “definitive” proof… but then I’ve never stated that it was… but what I did bring to the table (outside of the multiple “mental issues” examples that you’re too lazy to look up and try to explain away) is a relatively unbiased starting perspective (meaning not pro-me or pro-you) into this debate from a person who’s one of the most respected and knowledgeable golf journalists in the world despite being known as a big pro-Tiger champion… and Jamie Diaz’s insights (with all his pro-Tiger championing) was still honest and insightful enough to admit Tiger had “mental issues”.

 

Let me guess… Diaz is suddenly “biased” too?

 

lol

[dlygrisse]

I feel like I am dumber for ever participating in this thread. :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock:

[bladehunter]

Lol.

 

So this is a huge case study in how many times you can go to the well before someone snaps and gets banned because of the double stamp , no , no , triple stamp , reverse psychology being employed ????

 

 

Lmao. Won’t be this guy.

 

 

To your point. Paging Dr Ruth .... how do you reconcile his statement that he didn’t want to look at tiger ( or in the eye ) and just wanted to keep his head down and play his game ?

 

Is it because of tigers ora ? Is it a bad color ? Does he have smellavision ? And tiger a case of BO ?? What ?

[bscinstnct]

Lol.

 

So this is a huge case study in how many times you can go to the well before someone snaps and gets banned because of the double stamp , no , no , triple stamp , reverse psychology being employed ????

 

 

Lmao. Won't be this guy.

 

 

To your point. Paging Dr Ruth .... how do you reconcile his statement that he didn't want to look at tiger ( or in the eye ) and just wanted to keep his head down and play his game ?

 

Is it because of tigers ora ? Is it a bad color ? Does he have smellavision ? And tiger a case of BO ?? What ?

 

“I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him,” he said. “I realized that if I don’t look at him, if I pretend I’m playing alone, it’s just me, then it would be easier to deal with.”

 

That's fear. And a lot of it.

[cdnglf]

Lol.

 

So this is a huge case study in how many times you can go to the well before someone snaps and gets banned because of the double stamp , no , no , triple stamp , reverse psychology being employed ????

 

 

Lmao. Won't be this guy.

 

 

To your point. Paging Dr Ruth .... how do you reconcile his statement that he didn't want to look at tiger ( or in the eye ) and just wanted to keep his head down and play his game ?

 

Is it because of tigers ora ? Is it a bad color ? Does he have smellavision ? And tiger a case of BO ?? What ?

 

“I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him,” he said. “I realized that if I don’t look at him, if I pretend I’m playing alone, it’s just me, then it would be easier to deal with.”

 

That's fear. And a lot of it.

 

[bladehunter]

Exactly. Nobody. Repeat nobody is saying Rahm didn’t rise to the occasion and win. And deserve to win. He played the hero part well as basic pointed out.

 

But he felt and faced fear , as anyone does in that situation. This is by his own admission. Not my opinion. He said it. On TV. To argue with that is literally impossible.

[bscinstnct]

Lol.

 

So this is a huge case study in how many times you can go to the well before someone snaps and gets banned because of the double stamp , no , no , triple stamp , reverse psychology being employed ????

 

 

Lmao. Won't be this guy.

 

 

To your point. Paging Dr Ruth .... how do you reconcile his statement that he didn't want to look at tiger ( or in the eye ) and just wanted to keep his head down and play his game ?

 

Is it because of tigers ora ? Is it a bad color ? Does he have smellavision ? And tiger a case of BO ?? What ?

 

“I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him,” he said. “I realized that if I don’t look at him, if I pretend I’m playing alone, it’s just me, then it would be easier to deal with.”

 

That's fear. And a lot of it.

 

 

Ha! What is that from.

 

For some reason reminded me of this song

 

[straightshot7]

To be clear, when I’ve highlighted the multiple examples of Tiger displaying clear mental issues, I clearly framed it as an observation that for Tiger to win he’d have to overcome these mental issues and other issues in order to win… and I was right on this too when seeing his performance at TC.

 

To your first point, I agree on the general premise that two people on the internet arguing who’s right / wrong about Tiger’s mental issues isn’t “scientific” or “definitive” proof… but then I’ve never stated that it was… but what I did bring to the table (outside of the multiple “mental issues” examples that you’re too lazy to look up and try to explain away) is a relatively unbiased starting perspective (meaning not pro-me or pro-you) into this debate from a person who’s one of the most respected and knowledgeable golf journalists in the world despite being known as a big pro-Tiger champion… and Jamie Diaz’s insights (with all his pro-Tiger championing) was still honest and insightful enough to admit Tiger had “mental issues”.

 

Let me guess… Diaz is suddenly “biased” too?

 

lol

 

Of course Diaz is biased. He's a human being. You claim to be knowledgeable of psychology but you don't know this? We're all biased, by default. And we're imperfect.

 

When you go to the doctor with an injury, they examine all of the available evidence and give you an opinion on what's wrong and how to best treat it. That's why when you choose to see another doctor they call it a "second opinion". Because most of us understand (the doctors included), that they can't give you a perfectly accurate answer, even looking at all of the evidence and being highly trained in their field.

 

But we're supposed to take your and Diaz' psychoanalysis of Tiger's mental state as gold (as you watch on television as someone who's probably never played in a Tour event)? Did you sit down with Tiger for a therapy session that I'm not aware of?

 

Diaz is giving his opinion. That's what he's paid to do. If you asked him whether that meant what he's saying is true, he'd probably say "Well I think it's true, but it's just my opinion. And I'm a human being who makes mistakes and I've been wrong before. Should you take what I'm saying as 100% fact? Of course not."

 

You post people's opinions and you act like this is supposed to be convincing. It's not. At all. That's why I don't pay it any attention.

 

I could post hundreds of quotes from "authoritative" famous, knowledgeable golf journalists, teachers, and players saying great things about Tiger and how he's an extremely mentally strong player. But I'm not going to do that because I understand that that doesn't carry any weight.

 

As long as you understand that when you make claims like "Tiger has mental issues" you're just stating your opinion. It's not fact. And you do nothing to prove it as fact.

 

A lot of times it sounds like you actually think your opinions and the opinions of Diaz or whoever else are fact.

 

A fact is that Tiger won the TC. That's not my opinion.

[cdnglf]

Lol.

 

So this is a huge case study in how many times you can go to the well before someone snaps and gets banned because of the double stamp , no , no , triple stamp , reverse psychology being employed ????

 

 

Lmao. Won't be this guy.

 

 

To your point. Paging Dr Ruth .... how do you reconcile his statement that he didn't want to look at tiger ( or in the eye ) and just wanted to keep his head down and play his game ?

 

Is it because of tigers ora ? Is it a bad color ? Does he have smellavision ? And tiger a case of BO ?? What ?

 

“I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him,” he said. “I realized that if I don’t look at him, if I pretend I’m playing alone, it’s just me, then it would be easier to deal with.”

 

That's fear. And a lot of it.

 

 

Ha! What is that from.

 

[dciccoritti]

lol..exactly my point ... Tiger just won the tour championship at maybe 70% of his peak ability... He beat this 'deep field" of young guns for a whole season long marathon save for 1 man as well... as a 8 years away from champions tour eligibility guy, coming off back fusion... Yea.. the fields are deep.... in deep do-do for the short term future

 

A 30-man field is the exact opposite of "deep".

 

Not according to Cool Runnings. That field was more than deep enough to manhandle a broken down, mentally weak, old Tiger Woods. You know, due to todays knowledge and training.

 

However the only true FACT is that they didn't....and Tiger won. And in FACT, Tiger beat most of the top players all year while missing a boatload of fairways.

 

Cool Runnings can argue until he's blue in the face but when an argument is unable to somewhat predict future outcomes, then at some point he will have to admit that his argument is flawed. Or as Cool Runnings would say....FLAWED :-)

 

Cool Runnings: "You know, you can't make pizza with those ingredients while using that oven"

Us: "Well we just did and it tastes amazing"

Cool Runnings: "Ya well uh...you'll see"

Us: (Looking confused with tomato sauce dripping from the side of our mouth)

 

Actually (and to correct you again), when I’ve spoken about “deep” / depth of fields it’s been about the quality of not just the “top 20” but the other 120 players in a full field that have and can win virtually any event.

 

For example:

• Patton Kizzire was ranked 236th prior to his first of 2 wins last year.

• Gary Woodland was ranked 53rd before his great win last year.

• Satoshi Kodaira was ranked 46th before his first win last year.

• Webb Simpson was ranked 41st before his amazing win last year.

• Bryson DeChambeau was ranked 38th before his run of 3 brilliant wins last year.

• Francesco Molinari was ranked 33rd before his run of 3 stunning wins last year.

 

See what I mean…

 

Can you please respond to my comment instead of just stating the pathetically obvious that has nothing to do with the discussion. Breaking news, the top 30 players of any generation don't always win every event.

 

Was the top 30 in the world "more than deep enough" to prevent a mentally weak, broken down old Tiger Woods from winning? Is Tiger Woods just another Gary Woodland?

 

Also while we're at it, after watching Tiger in 2018, does your so called factual argument stand as is for 2019? Was there anything in 2018 that has caused you to rethink some aspects or possibly consider more variables into the equation? And if not, did Tiger overcome the impossible? Was he just lucky?

 

Curious to hear your thoughts on Tiger 2019.

[bscinstnct]

bscinstnct

“So, psychology is your field of expertise and you don't know that fear is one, if not the most important, emotion for athletes to experience in order to generate high levels of performance?”

–––––

Yes “fear” can be one of the greatest motivators for athletes (and all people) for that matter, but what’s most important to discern is from what source is it emanating from and to what degree. These distinctions are KEY to understanding it in order to use it as a source of propulsion not limitation that you’re currently and incorrectly believing (due to either your obvious fanboy bias and/or lack of insight on this topic).

Rahm along with Fleetwood and Olsen stated live on Skysports earlier in the RC build up that they (and I quote) “didn’t want to let their team mates down”. THIS is the emanating source of their “fear”… NOT their opponents.

As the evidence, facts and results (that I’ve highlighted previously) clearly prove is that Rahm was more INSPIRED than “fearful” of Tiger.

Sorry.

 

 

The opposite of fear is intimidation.

 

You stare down your foe.

 

You dont look away. And you sure dont

 

“I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him,” he said.

 

Good that he overcame his fear of TW and won. But he was clearly scared $hitless of playing TW and said so. If it was strictly fear of "not letting down his team", would he not have been able to even look at any other player for 17 holes?

 

When are you going to apply your expertise in psychology to explain how TW overcame your constant, lengthy, thesis of his mental fragility and won the Tour Championship?

 

That would be great to hear. As a *big* TW fan, that should be a great write up for you.

[Marco]

 

 

To be clear, when I’ve highlighted the multiple examples of Tiger displaying clear mental issues, I clearly framed it as an observation that for Tiger to win he’d have to overcome these mental issues and other issues in order to win… and I was right on this too when seeing his performance at TC.

 

To your first point, I agree on the general premise that two people on the internet arguing who’s right / wrong about Tiger’s mental issues isn’t “scientific” or “definitive” proof… but then I’ve never stated that it was… but what I did bring to the table (outside of the multiple “mental issues” examples that you’re too lazy to look up and try to explain away) is a relatively unbiased starting perspective (meaning not pro-me or pro-you) into this debate from a person who’s one of the most respected and knowledgeable golf journalists in the world despite being known as a big pro-Tiger champion… and Jamie Diaz’s insights (with all his pro-Tiger championing) was still honest and insightful enough to admit Tiger had “mental issues”.

 

Let me guess… Diaz is suddenly “biased” too?

 

lol

 

it wasn't mental issues, his game just wasn't sharp enough.

 

at Valspar you think hitting iron on 18 was a mental mistake ?

 

or the OB on 16th (memorial i think) ?

 

His game wasn't ready, he was still learning his swing, it wasn't due to mental mistakes lmao

 

At the PGA his missed drive on 17th wasn't a mental mistake, it was a driving inconsistency issue, which he resolved later

[Cool Runnings]

To be clear, when I’ve highlighted the multiple examples of Tiger displaying clear mental issues, I clearly framed it as an observation that for Tiger to win he’d have to overcome these mental issues and other issues in order to win… and I was right on this too when seeing his performance at TC.

 

To your first point, I agree on the general premise that two people on the internet arguing who’s right / wrong about Tiger’s mental issues isn’t “scientific” or “definitive” proof… but then I’ve never stated that it was… but what I did bring to the table (outside of the multiple “mental issues” examples that you’re too lazy to look up and try to explain away) is a relatively unbiased starting perspective (meaning not pro-me or pro-you) into this debate from a person who’s one of the most respected and knowledgeable golf journalists in the world despite being known as a big pro-Tiger champion… and Jamie Diaz’s insights (with all his pro-Tiger championing) was still honest and insightful enough to admit Tiger had “mental issues”.

 

Let me guess… Diaz is suddenly “biased” too?

 

lol

 

Of course Diaz is biased. He's a human being. You claim to be knowledgeable of psychology but you don't know this? We're all biased, by default. And we're imperfect.

 

When you go to the doctor with an injury, they examine all of the available evidence and give you an opinion on what's wrong and how to best treat it. That's why when you choose to see another doctor they call it a "second opinion". Because most of us understand (the doctors included), that they can't give you a perfectly accurate answer, even looking at all of the evidence and being highly trained in their field.

 

But we're supposed to take your and Diaz' psychoanalysis of Tiger's mental state as gold (as you watch on television as someone who's probably never played in a Tour event)? Did you sit down with Tiger for a therapy session that I'm not aware of?

 

Diaz is giving his opinion. That's what he's paid to do. If you asked him whether that meant what he's saying is true, he'd probably say "Well I think it's true, but it's just my opinion. And I'm a human being who makes mistakes and I've been wrong before. Should you take what I'm saying as 100% fact? Of course not."

 

You post people's opinions and you act like this is supposed to be convincing. It's not. At all. That's why I don't pay it any attention.

 

I could post hundreds of quotes from "authoritative" famous, knowledgeable golf journalists, teachers, and players saying great things about Tiger and how he's an extremely mentally strong player. But I'm not going to do that because I understand that that doesn't carry any weight.

 

As long as you understand that when you make claims like "Tiger has mental issues" you're just stating your opinion. It's not fact. And you do nothing to prove it as fact.

 

A lot of times it sounds like you actually think your opinions and the opinions of Diaz or whoever else are fact.

 

A fact is that Tiger won the TC. That's not my opinion.

 

straightshot7

“Of course Diaz is biased. He's a human being. You claim to be knowledgeable of psychology but you don't know this?”

––––––––––––––

 

No wonder you’re chasing your tail of denial… You’re clearly not understanding even the basic content / points of my previous post. I’ll specifically highlight were you’ve gone wrong…

 

I clearly stated bringing Jamie Diaz in to our conversation is a “relatively unbiased starting perspective (meaning not pro-me or pro-you)”. Put another way for you, this means Diaz doesn’t have a bias specifically to ME or YOU personally as he doesn’t know either of us or this conversation we’re both having. I hope you can at least agree on this undeniable fact - still with me?

 

Then I went on to explain that Diaz DOES have a BIAS to the PLAYER in question in our discussion because Diaz is a well known “big pro-Tiger champion” (fyi… that’s a bias). To put it another way, this means if anything Diaz actually comes down on YOUR “pro” side of Tiger NOT having any mental issues if it was a questionable 50-50 issue.

 

BUT… and a big DAMNING but for you because despite Diaz’s known bias being a “big pro-Tiger champion” , Diaz was still able to be impartial and honest enough to tell things as they are by openly admitting Tiger DOES have (and I quote Diaz here)… clear “mental issues”.

 

For your own good, and the good of future conversations, please please read my and others posts more carefully before replying. That would be much appreciated.

And remember, while everyone has an opinion not all opinions are weighted or respected equally. The weight and huge respect behind Diaz’s insight and opinion (especially as he’s a known “big pro-Tiger champion”) is even more damning for your clearly biased position in this discussion. FYI… Diaz also thinks Tiger is one of the mentally strongest players in golf, but that still DIDN’T negate the reality myself, Diaz and other respected golf journalists saw Tiger having clear “mental issues”.

Lets be honest here, your ego is now so caught up in your weakening position that you have no respectable way of back-tracking even if you wanted to. Being impartial and fair-minded like Diaz and other respected golf journalists have been on this topic, this option for you has all but now disappeared due to the degree your ego has become attached. But thankfully and with foresight I introduced Diaz earlier precisely because of this dynamic I could see happening and precisely because Diaz is one of the most highly respected minds in world golf bringing a level of impartiality and unique perspective despite Diaz’s known pro-Tiger bias.

 

Sorry, just calling it as it is my friend.

[bladehunter]

So.... Damon Hack says Tiger will end 2019 as world #1..... I agree .... i said it before he won the Tour championship....

 

what say you Cool ? what are your 2019 predictions ?

[Cool Runnings]

bscinstnct

"So, psychology is your field of expertise and you don't know that fear is one, if not the most important, emotion for athletes to experience in order to generate high levels of performance?"

–––––

 

Yes "fear" can be one of the greatest motivators for athletes (and all people) for that matter, but what's most important to discern is from what source is it emanating from and to what degree. These distinctions are KEY to understanding it in order to use it as a source of propulsion not limitation that you're currently and incorrectly believing (due to either your obvious fanboy bias and/or lack of insight on this topic).

 

Rahm along with Fleetwood and Olsen stated live on Skysports earlier in the RC build up that they (and I quote) "didn't want to let their team mates down". THIS is the emanating source of their "fear"… NOT their opponents.

 

As the evidence, facts and results (that I've highlighted previously) clearly prove is that Rahm was more INSPIRED than "fearful" of Tiger.

 

Sorry.

 

 

The opposite of fear is intimidation.

 

You stare down your foe.

 

You dont look away. And you sure dont

 

"I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him," he said.

 

Good that he overcame his fear of TW and won. But he was clearly scared $hitless of playing TW and said so. If it was strictly fear of "not letting down his team", would he not have been able to even look at any other player for 17 holes?

 

When are you going to apply your expertise in psychology to explain how TW overcame your constant, lengthy, thesis of his mental fragility and won the Tour Championship?

 

That would be great to hear. As a *big* TW fan, that should be a great write up for you.

 

bscinstnct

“The opposite of fear is intimidation.”

–––––––––

 

Wrong. The opposite of fear is NOT “intimidation”.

 

The “opposite of fear” on the spectrum is widely defined/described as “confidence” or “certainty” or “trust” or “curiosity” or “joy” or “peace” or “faith”… “Intimidation” on the spectrum is a close off-spring of fear.

 

If I can be honest, it’s really hard to have an open and respectable conversation on such topics when even the fundamentals aren’t known to be agreed on.

[bladehunter]

so .... how about 2019?

[cdnglf]

[imakaveli]

No idea how we reach this point but, anyway, imho Jon Rahm was more intimidated by TW (who wouldn't be, also because that guy was still an amateur when DJ won the US Open) and his strategy not to look at him paid off, so never look at the guy again from now on :D I was on the 17th grandstand and his birdie was fantastic!

[bscinstnct]

bscinstnct

"So, psychology is your field of expertise and you don't know that fear is one, if not the most important, emotion for athletes to experience in order to generate high levels of performance?"

–––––

 

Yes "fear" can be one of the greatest motivators for athletes (and all people) for that matter, but what's most important to discern is from what source is it emanating from and to what degree. These distinctions are KEY to understanding it in order to use it as a source of propulsion not limitation that you're currently and incorrectly believing (due to either your obvious fanboy bias and/or lack of insight on this topic).

 

Rahm along with Fleetwood and Olsen stated live on Skysports earlier in the RC build up that they (and I quote) "didn't want to let their team mates down". THIS is the emanating source of their "fear"… NOT their opponents.

 

As the evidence, facts and results (that I've highlighted previously) clearly prove is that Rahm was more INSPIRED than "fearful" of Tiger.

 

Sorry.

 

 

The opposite of fear is intimidation.

 

You stare down your foe.

 

You dont look away. And you sure dont

 

"I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him," he said.

 

Good that he overcame his fear of TW and won. But he was clearly scared $hitless of playing TW and said so. If it was strictly fear of "not letting down his team", would he not have been able to even look at any other player for 17 holes?

 

When are you going to apply your expertise in psychology to explain how TW overcame your constant, lengthy, thesis of his mental fragility and won the Tour Championship?

 

That would be great to hear. As a *big* TW fan, that should be a great write up for you.

 

bscinstnct

“The opposite of fear is intimidation.”

–––––––––

 

Wrong. The opposite of fear is NOT “intimidation”.

 

The “opposite of fear” on the spectrum is widely defined/described as “confidence” or “certainty” or “trust” or “curiosity” or “joy” or “peace” or “faith”… “Intimidation” on the spectrum is a close off-spring of fear.

 

If I can be honest, it’s really hard to have an open and respectable conversation on such topics when even the fundamentals aren’t known to be agreed on.

 

You agree with me.

 

The athlete who exudes "confidence" and "certainty" (the opposite of fear, per you) is intimidating.

 

Think of a great closer on the mound. They know they are going to strike you out and their body language and stare are intimidation born of confidence.

 

Its the fearfull who look away. As Rahm did.

 

 

 

 

[Cool Runnings]

lol..exactly my point ... Tiger just won the tour championship at maybe 70% of his peak ability... He beat this 'deep field" of young guns for a whole season long marathon save for 1 man as well... as a 8 years away from champions tour eligibility guy, coming off back fusion... Yea.. the fields are deep.... in deep do-do for the short term future

 

A 30-man field is the exact opposite of "deep".

 

Not according to Cool Runnings. That field was more than deep enough to manhandle a broken down, mentally weak, old Tiger Woods. You know, due to todays knowledge and training.

 

However the only true FACT is that they didn't....and Tiger won. And in FACT, Tiger beat most of the top players all year while missing a boatload of fairways.

 

Cool Runnings can argue until he's blue in the face but when an argument is unable to somewhat predict future outcomes, then at some point he will have to admit that his argument is flawed. Or as Cool Runnings would say....FLAWED :-)

 

Cool Runnings: "You know, you can't make pizza with those ingredients while using that oven"

Us: "Well we just did and it tastes amazing"

Cool Runnings: "Ya well uh...you'll see"

Us: (Looking confused with tomato sauce dripping from the side of our mouth)

 

Actually (and to correct you again), when I’ve spoken about “deep” / depth of fields it’s been about the quality of not just the “top 20” but the other 120 players in a full field that have and can win virtually any event.

 

For example:

• Patton Kizzire was ranked 236th prior to his first of 2 wins last year.

• Gary Woodland was ranked 53rd before his great win last year.

• Satoshi Kodaira was ranked 46th before his first win last year.

• Webb Simpson was ranked 41st before his amazing win last year.

• Bryson DeChambeau was ranked 38th before his run of 3 brilliant wins last year.

• Francesco Molinari was ranked 33rd before his run of 3 stunning wins last year.

 

See what I mean…

 

Can you please respond to my comment instead of just stating the pathetically obvious that has nothing to do with the discussion. Breaking news, the top 30 players of any generation don't always win every event.

 

Was the top 30 in the world "more than deep enough" to prevent a mentally weak, broken down old Tiger Woods from winning? Is Tiger Woods just another Gary Woodland?

 

Also while we're at it, after watching Tiger in 2018, does your so called factual argument stand as is for 2019? Was there anything in 2018 that has caused you to rethink some aspects or possibly consider more variables into the equation? And if not, did Tiger overcome the impossible? Was he just lucky?

 

Curious to hear your thoughts on Tiger 2019.

Sorry if you don’t like me correcting (and backing up) your false/dishonest opening sentence when you responded to the previous post stating “A 30-man field is the exact opposite of "deep”.”… and then you replied in your very opening sentence stating “Not according to Cool Running.”

Why is it I have to regularly correct you and others from this group about the basic facts and truth of my posts? It’s like you either don’t read them, can’t read them or just make stuff up to suit your obvious agendas despite my words & their meaning being crystal clear and there for you all in black & white.

If we can’t get you and others to acknowledge and re-quote the basic facts correctly, what hope do we have to build discussions into more honest, credible, finer details in dialogue?

I’ll happily answer your other questions despite your basic facts being so wrong on my repeatedly stated position.

As I have repeatedly stated before, Tiger in this new deeper more talented era has struggled to win at the ratio and in the big majors compared to the previous era - and this is even when he was fit, healthy and able to win regular PGA events. Tiger winning the 2018 TC was a wonderful achievement because it did indeed include most of the best players in world golf despite it being a small 30 man field - but I can also be honest enough to acknowledge many of those players were running on fumes with many having one eye on the upcoming Ryder Cup. Tiger fully deserved to win that week, his win made my week & month while also surprising me if I’m honest. But like I stated and highlighted, full fielded events today (i.e. 144 players) do and have the depth of talent today that can and do win key events even when players are ranked outside the top 30 - as I highlighted, those are just the facts and how I’ve previously defined deep/depth.

As for Tiger in 2019, like I’ve already posted before (but will post again)… I think the jury is still out somewhat on Tiger mentally under pressure, was his TC win and the displayed mental fortitude that week the exception or the rule? That’ll be revealed next year. I do think if Tiger can get an early win in 2019 that will ease the pressure valve for him and could set him up for a multiple winning year if his trajectory of ability continues on from what we saw at the 2018 TC… but right now I think winning any of the majors in 2019 will still be out of his reach as they’re full fielded events with all players having their main seasonal focus to peak in those 4 events.

I will know more when I see him in a few full fielded events again next year.

[ebrasmus21]

C.R. + Basic -

 

You guys ever locked horns like this before?

[bladehunter]

No idea how we reach this point but, anyway, imho Jon Rahm was more intimidated by TW (who wouldn't be, also because that guy was still an amateur when DJ won the US Open) and his strategy not to look at him paid off, so never look at the guy again from now on :D I was on the 17th grandstand and his birdie was fantastic!

 

I agree 100%. But to disregard what the guy said about himself is just foolish , or dare i say it , irrational.

 

( not aimed at you )

[bladehunter]

To answer you cool. Why do you constantly have to explain your posts ? Could it be the split tongue Nature in which they are written ?

 

As a tiger fan surely you have hopes for 2019 ? No ?

[bscinstnct]

Cool Running wrote,

 

"Tiger winning the 2018 TC was a wonderful achievement because it did indeed include most of the best players in world golf despite it being a small 30 man field - but I can also be honest enough to acknowledge many of those players were running on fumes with many having one eye on the upcoming Ryder Cup."

 

They had their eye on the RC?

 

There were 5 players who could have won the fedex cup and

 

$10MM

 

Bryson, DJ, JT, JRose, and TF. And a number of others had a legit shot.

 

They were fully focused on winning with $10MM at stake.

 

As far as those guys running on fumes. Quite impressive for TW to out gun the young guns and have the

 

Mental strength

 

To beat a bunch of guys, a few practically half his age.

 

 

 

 

[Cool Runnings]

bscinstnct

"So, psychology is your field of expertise and you don't know that fear is one, if not the most important, emotion for athletes to experience in order to generate high levels of performance?"

–––––

 

Yes "fear" can be one of the greatest motivators for athletes (and all people) for that matter, but what's most important to discern is from what source is it emanating from and to what degree. These distinctions are KEY to understanding it in order to use it as a source of propulsion not limitation that you're currently and incorrectly believing (due to either your obvious fanboy bias and/or lack of insight on this topic).

 

Rahm along with Fleetwood and Olsen stated live on Skysports earlier in the RC build up that they (and I quote) "didn't want to let their team mates down". THIS is the emanating source of their "fear"… NOT their opponents.

 

As the evidence, facts and results (that I've highlighted previously) clearly prove is that Rahm was more INSPIRED than "fearful" of Tiger.

 

Sorry.

 

 

The opposite of fear is intimidation.

 

You stare down your foe.

 

You dont look away. And you sure dont

 

"I played the first 16, 17 holes without looking at him," he said.

 

Good that he overcame his fear of TW and won. But he was clearly scared $hitless of playing TW and said so. If it was strictly fear of "not letting down his team", would he not have been able to even look at any other player for 17 holes?

 

When are you going to apply your expertise in psychology to explain how TW overcame your constant, lengthy, thesis of his mental fragility and won the Tour Championship?

 

That would be great to hear. As a *big* TW fan, that should be a great write up for you.

 

bscinstnct

"The opposite of fear is intimidation."

–––––––––

 

Wrong. The opposite of fear is NOT "intimidation".

 

The "opposite of fear" on the spectrum is widely defined/described as "confidence" or "certainty" or "trust" or "curiosity" or "joy" or "peace" or "faith"… "Intimidation" on the spectrum is a close off-spring of fear.

 

If I can be honest, it's really hard to have an open and respectable conversation on such topics when even the fundamentals aren't known to be agreed on.

 

You agree with me.

 

The athlete who exudes "confidence" and "certainty" (the opposite of fear, per you) is intimidating.

 

Think of a great closer on the mound. They know they are going to strike you out and their body language and stare are intimidation born of confidence.

 

Its the fearfull who look away. As Rahm did.

 

No, your opening sentence “The opposite of fear is intimidation.” is fundamentally WRONG.

 

Intimidation can be a tactic used by a player to hopefully intimidate another player. When a player is feeling intimidated this is known as a ‘state’ they’re in.

 

Once again, Jon’s words you highlighted were his TACTICS / STRATEGY to stay FOCUSED on HIS game NOT Tiger’s. Jon was fully aware Tiger is/was a childhood golfing hero and so having these tactics/strategy (like not making eye contact) would greater enable him to stay FOCUSED on HIS game and not wander & watch Tiger as an avid fan. It’s a clever and widely used TACTIC/STRATEGY in sport.

 

Again, when I revealed Jon’s inner thoughts and dialogue in the heat of battle, THIS is how you know if a player is truly “intimidated” or as I correctly identified “inspired”. The reality, thoughts, inner-dialogue, physiology and results ALL PROVE Jon was far more INSPIRED than “fearful” in the heat of battle playing with Tiger. Remember, Rahm revealed pre-event his greatest fear was “letting down his team mates”. This is also a normal and nature dynamic.

[bladehunter]

Cool your quote above and the quote you call “dishonest “ are the same exact statement with only slightly different verbiage.

 

It’s loke talking to my 10 year old. So I’ll gov you the same sermon.

 

“You know what you’re doing. Stop playin dumb. The game isn’t funny anymore. “