Thoughts on Couch Potatoes Calling in Penalties

[warfelg]

Unless the name of the person emailing/calling is released at least to the player involved it has no merit. For all we know it could be a person with a grudge against the player, or a competitors family member or a competitors sponsor. That said it is ludicrous that a professional sport would allow anyone to influence the rules officials who is not properly vetted as being impartial. I personally would have declined the trophy knowing I was bested. The whole thing stinks and I really believe the real cheating was far more insidious and conducted behind the scenes.

 

It's been reported that the person who sent the email was a rules official from another tour. That makes sense because they are trained to observe and "see" these kinds of things. More importantly, they would be the ones to know how to go about alerting and connecting with the correct person who could (or would have to) take action. Meaning, the average fan would have no idea how to get in touch with the right person that quickly.

 

That's big time BS if true. If it's a rules official from another tour, they likely know someone on the current tournament or have a 2nd degree contact. They could have gotten that message through much faster than close to 24 hours after the fact.

[warfelg]

Here's how to stop couch potato refs: Let them know when they call in, they (personally) will be exposed to the media. Bet it only takes one for people to think twice about it.

 

Good idea but could be damaging and put someone in harms way. I mean you thing Steve Bartman's interference with the Cubs in '03 caused him a problem in Chicago with death threats and all? He had to leave the city. With the craze of some fans and some people, this type of exposure may lead to real stalking, eventual harm and even liability from the fallout.

 

Don't even have to release the name. Just say an email from a viewer in [insert City] of [insert Country], brought this to light. The lack of accountability in these situations is alarming. What's to stop people from all over from spamming them to either hide a rules infraction or to penalize a player they don't like.

[Hifade]

Unless the name of the person emailing/calling is released at least to the player involved it has no merit. For all we know it could be a person with a grudge against the player, or a competitors family member or a competitors sponsor. That said it is ludicrous that a professional sport would allow anyone to influence the rules officials who is not properly vetted as being impartial. I personally would have declined the trophy knowing I was bested. The whole thing stinks and I really believe the real cheating was far more insidious and conducted behind the scenes.

 

It's been reported that the person who sent the email was a rules official from another tour. That makes sense because they are trained to observe and "see" these kinds of things. More importantly, they would be the ones to know how to go about alerting and connecting with the correct person who could (or would have to) take action. Meaning, the average fan would have no idea how to get in touch with the right person that quickly.

 

That's big time BS if true. If it's a rules official from another tour, they likely know someone on the current tournament or have a 2nd degree contact. They could have gotten that message through much faster than close to 24 hours after the fact.

 

Agreed but the problem is they apparently did not watch Saturday's broadcast until sometime Sunday AM prior to Sunday's televised coverage......and that's when they reacted and reached out. They should have exercised some discretion and stayed the hell out of it......given the lapse of time and the sh!tstorm they knew they'd cause.

[warfelg]

Unless the name of the person emailing/calling is released at least to the player involved it has no merit. For all we know it could be a person with a grudge against the player, or a competitors family member or a competitors sponsor. That said it is ludicrous that a professional sport would allow anyone to influence the rules officials who is not properly vetted as being impartial. I personally would have declined the trophy knowing I was bested. The whole thing stinks and I really believe the real cheating was far more insidious and conducted behind the scenes.

 

It's been reported that the person who sent the email was a rules official from another tour. That makes sense because they are trained to observe and "see" these kinds of things. More importantly, they would be the ones to know how to go about alerting and connecting with the correct person who could (or would have to) take action. Meaning, the average fan would have no idea how to get in touch with the right person that quickly.

 

That's big time BS if true. If it's a rules official from another tour, they likely know someone on the current tournament or have a 2nd degree contact. They could have gotten that message through much faster than close to 24 hours after the fact.

 

Agreed but the problem is they apparently did not watch Saturday's broadcast until sometime Sunday AM prior to Sunday's televised coverage......and that's when they reacted. They should have exercised some discretion and stayed the hell out of it......given the lapse of time.

 

Yea, that really bothers me. They watch after the fact, and again if it's true it was another rules official, they knew full on that calling this in results in a 4 stroke penalty. So, again if the part of it being a rules official is true, that makes this whole situation even worse in my opinion because they called in knowing full on well what the repercussions are for Lexi at that point. Also keep in mind that Lexi teed off at 2:00 local time, Sue Witters claimed that no one saw the email until they were on 9 (whether that means sent in then or just no one noticed or no one said anything), so they were likely at that point at about 4:30 local time. So even if they saw that infraction in that AM watching the replay that means there was at least a 5 hour time difference in that storyline.

[cvvorst]

Here's how to stop couch potato refs: Let them know when they call in, they (personally) will be exposed to the media. Bet it only takes one for people to think twice about it.

 

Good idea but could be damaging and put someone in harms way. I mean you thing Steve Bartman's interference with the Cubs in '03 caused him a problem in Chicago with death threats and all? He had to leave the city. With the craze of some fans and some people, this type of exposure may lead to real stalking, eventual harm and even liability from the fallout.

 

 

Yes, and because of that there won't be any more call-in whistle blowing.

 

I'm not saying it's right, of course. The idiots that threaten a person over something like that are terrible people.

[thejuice]

video replay is the absolute worst thing to happen to sports this century. It's absolutely terrible in all sports.

 

I disagree with that statement completely. It's the best thing to happen for getting things right as close to real time as possible. I don't think golf needs replay unless it's requested during the actual round. Apparently, Lexi has been noticed to mark her ball from the side before. If people knew this about her then her competitors should be looking for it during a round and ask for a ruling live. Any rulings made after the completion of any round, inning, quarter, period, etc should be null and void. Too late!

[Saskwatch]

I haven't read all of the replies so I apologize if I'm repeating a few things.

 

This ruling is assumig that everyone puts their ball in the exact spot it came from prior to marking it. There really isn't a physical way this can happen 100% of the time...we are humans. Secondly, in order to make this fair everyone's on-green actions need to now become filmed and reviewed in order to justify this scenario.

 

I really hope Lexi and DJ team up!!

 

I get the ruling and she clearly misses her spot...but as mentioned above, I doubt everyone is setting their ball down exactly where it came from to the dimple.

[tap in birdie]

I just went to this section of wrx to vent but I see quite a few people beat me to the punch. What happened to Dustin Johnson seems like nothing compared to what they did to Lexi. It's a bunch of bullsh*t and they're ruining the game. Have a rules official walk with every group for all I care. I thought replay was ruining sports like football and basketball but this 1,000x worse. That girl deserves that major and even worse...that other girl Ryu is gonna know for the rest of her life that she didn't really earn that victory. No one wins in this scenario and golf looks all the more foolish, political, and out of date. I'm truly disgusted

[ping rat]

Unless the name of the person emailing/calling is released at least to the player involved it has no merit. For all we know it could be a person with a grudge against the player, or a competitors family member or a competitors sponsor. That said it is ludicrous that a professional sport would allow anyone to influence the rules officials who is not properly vetted as being impartial. I personally would have declined the trophy knowing I was bested. The whole thing stinks and I really believe the real cheating was far more insidious and conducted behind the scenes.

 

It's been reported that the person who sent the email was a rules official from another tour. That makes sense because they are trained to observe and "see" these kinds of things. More importantly, they would be the ones to know how to go about alerting and connecting with the correct person who could (or would have to) take action. Meaning, the average fan would have no idea how to get in touch with the right person that quickly.

 

That's big time BS if true. If it's a rules official from another tour, they likely know someone on the current tournament or have a 2nd degree contact. They could have gotten that message through much faster than close to 24 hours after the fact.

 

Agreed but the problem is they apparently did not watch Saturday's broadcast until sometime Sunday AM prior to Sunday's televised coverage......and that's when they reacted. They should have exercised some discretion and stayed the hell out of it......given the lapse of time.

 

Yea, that really bothers me. They watch after the fact, and again if it's true it was another rules official, they knew full on that calling this in results in a 4 stroke penalty. So, again if the part of it being a rules official is true, that makes this whole situation even worse in my opinion because they called in knowing full on well what the repercussions are for Lexi at that point. Also keep in mind that Lexi teed off at 2:00 local time, Sue Witters claimed that no one saw the email until they were on 9 (whether that means sent in then or just no one noticed or no one said anything), so they were likely at that point at about 4:30 local time. So even if they saw that infraction in that AM watching the replay that means there was at least a 5 hour time difference in that storyline.

If it was in fact a rules official then they need to out who and what was the extent of their credentials. The bottom line for me is I would have been having to go out of my way to spot such a minor infraction (and I have a relatively good working knowledge of the rules) which begs the question why was this person looking so hard at a particular player in a tournament they were not even officiating in, it would appear for whatever reason they went out of their way to put the player under a microscope. As I stated I think this stinks and it will take a lot of convincing to prove to me that there was not some under handed business afoot which in the big picture could be a major threat to the integrity of the officiating bodies.

[Spongerob]

I was watching replays of the Super Bowl this morning. I think I spotted a missed holding call that would have cost the Pats the win. Who can I call?

[Pepperturbo]

Golf is the only pro sport that takes calls from anal retentive, jerks. Its wrong in every sense of the word. Yesterdays LPGA rules leadership was pathetic, no less a day later. :stop:

Have to applaud Lexi Thompson though. Took a lot to get back in the game and in eventual playoff.

[Pepperturbo]

video replay is the absolute worst thing to happen to sports this century. It's absolutely terrible in all sports.

 

I disagree with that statement completely. It's the best thing to happen for getting things right as close to real time as possible. I don't think golf needs replay unless it's requested during the actual round. Apparently, Lexi has been noticed to mark her ball from the side before. If people knew this about her then her competitors should be looking for it during a round and ask for a ruling live. Any rulings made after the completion of any round, inning, quarter, period, etc should be null and void. Too late!

 

Video replay has value to professional sports, and event officials, only, when something in question happens. But its wrong to allow nitwits at home to participate, regardless.

[HighSpeedScene]

I have no issue with the two stroke penalty IF she has replaced it incorrectly (I haven't seen the footage). The extra two strokes for the incorrect score are unfair, as this has been noticed a day later. Had it been noticed on the day before she'd finished, they could've been added on with no further issues. The incorrect score penalty is not designed for situations like this.

 

Would just be nice for the rules people to stop making the game look so bad. Yes, they need to protect the field, but the way they have gone about it just paints golf in a bad light.

 

How do they penalize the action but look the other way on the incorrect card penalty? Unless they want to say that there's no way she could have known that it was a penalty for the action?

 

How much sense would that make? The committee really doesn't have any leeway there, unless they want to make it a BIGGER cluster

 

Very easy:

The playing competitor, rules official, and scoring official were not aware Lexi signed an incorrect scorecard at the time. Therefore, no penalty because she was signing an at the time correct scorecard.

 

Unless you also penalize all the other parties for an incorrect scorecard too.

 

Where is awareness a requirement of the rule?

 

IMO either everyone that signed and reviewed that scorecard made a mistake and needs to be penalized or no one.

 

If you're out there as my marker, sign the card, then find out there's a mistake, there should be a penalty to you too. That's just the way I feel about it. Either everyone goofed or no one goofed.

 

EDIT:

The wrong scorecard rule is one that I have always disagreed with. In actual tournament play both sides need to sign the card and the official needs to review it before everything is entered and submitted as final. So the way I see it is if everyone signs the card, and signs off that it's correct, and then a day later something is found to be wrong, then everyone involved gave the okay to an incorrect scorecard. The marker, the player and the official all made the same "mistake" in saying that the card was a good one. The competitor for saying the score on that hole was right, the marker for putting down the wrong score and not correcting the competitor, the official for not noticing there was a mistake and correcting it.

 

That's just not how the rule works now - if you're arguing for changing the rules, ok, but the committee has no choice in the matter, really, unless they want to make a BIGGER cluster.

[cinnepa]

I was watching replays of the Super Bowl this morning. I think I spotted a missed holding call that would have cost the Pats the win. Who can I call?

 

same thing really, it's just stunning that something like this can even happen.....snitches shouldn't even be acknowledged - delete any contact they have with the tour. how any outsider could swing a tourney amazes me.

[bunter101]

So rounding up this thread, if no one sees you cheating breaking the rules. You should not get punished...

 

If someone sees a rules infraction, contacts the relevant parties, OBVIOUSLY proven right, get held as the villain of the peace....

[Doyle Hargraves]

If the tours are going to continue in this direction (allowing call in/emailed perceived rule infraction), its time to require a monetary bond from callers/emailers alleging rules infractions.

 

In order for your "concern" to be reviewed by the tour conducting the tournament, you have post $1000 on a credit card to the tour office. If there is no infraction found, your money is forfeited. If there is a rule infraction found, then the committee will decide if you get your money back.

 

Also, there needs to be an immediate rule passed which states that the previous round is final and complete for all purposes once the first shot is hit for the next round. (I assumed incorrectly this was the rule already).

 

Absolutely Ridiculous what happened on Sunday. Lexi has class beyond belief.

[Wren]

There's no positive from this. The game isn't protected. This isn't more equitable.

 

It's an embarrassment. Spectators cannot even know the current score of the tournament they are watching?

 

The tours need to take responsibility for officiating their tournaments.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I guess the anal retentive jerk that reported this did so by email. Anyone know the email address used?

 

I say let's flood the mailbox with bogus claims of rules infractions during the next LPGA major!

[mizuno player]

First. She should have been penalized.

Second. In my opinion it should have been only 2. She was unaware of the rules infraction. Right or wrong that's my opinion.

 

Those that have determined after watching the video she absolutely "intentionally" moved her ball. How in the heck did you come to that conclusion from watching that video? I strongly disagree and it feels like you have an ax to grind.

 

I feel bad for her but she did violate the rule.

[North Texas]

Unless the name of the person emailing/calling is released at least to the player involved it has no merit. For all we know it could be a person with a grudge against the player, or a competitors family member or a competitors sponsor. That said it is ludicrous that a professional sport would allow anyone to influence the rules officials who is not properly vetted as being impartial. I personally would have declined the trophy knowing I was bested. The whole thing stinks and I really believe the real cheating was far more insidious and conducted behind the scenes.

 

It's been reported that the person who sent the email was a rules official from another tour. That makes sense because they are trained to observe and "see" these kinds of things. More importantly, they would be the ones to know how to go about alerting and connecting with the correct person who could (or would have to) take action. Meaning, the average fan would have no idea how to get in touch with the right person that quickly.

 

Where has this been reported?

[bigmoneyp]

The biggest problem I had was the extra two strokes for signing an incorrect scorecard. The penalty occurred on the seventh hole which gave someone not affiliated with the tournament the option of calling a two stroke penalty if called before the completion of play that day or just waiting until the next day and having her assessed a four stroke penalty. That kind of power over the outcome of a tournament should never be given to an outside observer. By the way, marking the ball is not an exact science.

 

I think this point is very important.

[Bad9]

I say let's flood the mailbox with bogus claims of rules infractions during the next LPGA major!

 

In all honesty we should do this for all professional tournaments on tv. It might be the only way to get the tours to realized that allowing people to call/email in possible infractions is idiotic.

[bigchucksr]

"I feel bad for her but she did violate the rule"

 

In all the discussion about who and when this infraction was reported the basic fact is that a rule was obviously violated.

 

My question is the video--how is it that we get this close up of a golfer handling a putt that up close and personal. I don't watch women's golf on television but is it common to show a close up of a golfer laying a mark and then placing the ball? Having watched thousands of hours of men's golf I don't recall a close up of a ball placement --at least to the degree that his incident was recorded.

I almost wonder if the golfer might have had some kind of history of trying to improve her lie on greens prior to this and someone decided to document the practice.

To me the most suspicious part of the whole incident isn't who called this in or when but how this very precise violation of the rules happened to be so masterfully caught on camera.

I'd like to know who recorded that video--was it part of the telecast or from another source?

[Hifade]

Unless the name of the person emailing/calling is released at least to the player involved it has no merit. For all we know it could be a person with a grudge against the player, or a competitors family member or a competitors sponsor. That said it is ludicrous that a professional sport would allow anyone to influence the rules officials who is not properly vetted as being impartial. I personally would have declined the trophy knowing I was bested. The whole thing stinks and I really believe the real cheating was far more insidious and conducted behind the scenes.

 

It's been reported that the person who sent the email was a rules official from another tour. That makes sense because they are trained to observe and "see" these kinds of things. More importantly, they would be the ones to know how to go about alerting and connecting with the correct person who could (or would have to) take action. Meaning, the average fan would have no idea how to get in touch with the right person that quickly.

 

Where has this been reported?

 

 

As part of a discussion on Morning Drive earlier this morning, one of them mentioned that an LPGA contact had commented it was another tour’s rules official that sent the email.

[bladehunter]

if it was by a official at home that makes this worse in my opinion ... surely a conflict of interest at best... suppose this "official " dislikes Lexi.... suppose he has money againtst her not winning... can we investigate that ? not without a name.... smells of some low level official trying to get recognozed for a "big show" position ...

[soregongolfer]

Only sport that does this. Absolutely ridiculous. Can you imagine if the NFL allowed this. 8 hr games. Needs to stop

 

I keep reading this type of comparision and it's ridiculous. First, other sports have officials on the field. Second, players aren't expected to call penalites on themselves in other sports. That's where golf is different and this type of comparision can't be made.

[soregongolfer]

She moved the ball closer to the hole. I don't know how this can be defended. Had she marked it, walked away, walked back and then put her ball down, I would have some empathy. However, this whole thing took 1 second. Maybe in the chaos of competition she blew it, but maybe she tried to give herself a competitive advantage. I don't know her intent, but it didn't look good. Marking it on the side and then putting the ball back behind the coin in an age old cheating technique.

[Barfolomew]

I'm so pissed Im gonna quit golf and just put my clubs up for sale in the BST section......I want nothin to do with this game!!!!! (I will trade for a '17 m2 driver or some nice mizunos)

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I'm so pissed Im gonna quit golf and just put my clubs up for sale in the BST section......I want nothin to do with this game!!!!! (I will trade for a '17 m2 driver or some nice mizunos)

Don't quit golf, quit the usga. Golf needs us and we need golf, but we don't need the usga.

[Vindog]

For those who want penalties to only apply if found on that day: Consider that the winner is the player who scores the lowest aggregate score for ALL ROUNDS. Not applying a penalty for Saturday's round affects the tournament as a whole, not just for Saturday.

 

It seems harsh but it follows logic.

 

But, a breach of rules that occurs on Sunday, but isn't found until Monday incurs NO penalty, because "competition has closed". What if the winner is found to have made a serious breach of a rule after they have accepted the trophy? Nothing happens, and the outcome stays the same. If this call in crap after the round doesn't apply to the final round, it shouldn't apply to any. Simple logic.

 

Your argument for "not applying a penalty for Saturday's round affects the tournament as a whole..." isn't sound, because my example above means that the committee wouldn't apply a penalty for a Sunday violation that was found after that day. So Sunday rules violations that go unnoticed until later aren't as important as the other 3 days? Or...do away with this call in after the round is completed BS? Which follows "logic"?

 

Except that there are cases where a penalty for DQ can be imposed after completion has closed. So your example Serious breach comes with a DQ penalty which can be imposed after the close of competition.

 

So not so simple, eh?