3W vs Driver off the tee

[Ri_Redneck]

Played The Course at Thanksgiving Point yesterday in Lehi, UT. Tips were supposed to be 7750, but they weren't using all of the back tees. Ended up being a little under 7500. Have to say I only played less than driver on the two short par 4s that we're downwind. Every other tee shot had to be driver. Ended up with an 85. Damn nice course though!

 

BT

[tsecor]

Thomas was very accurate on his shot into the rough.......he was just long

[tsecor]

Now that's truly funny! :D

 

Thanks.

 

Enjoy your weekend, everyone.

 

I'm going to go pound the sh*t out of some balls tomorrow on a course where there's little to no reason to ever hit 3w over driver.

 

I guarantee I won't shoot 77 and then think a 3W would've saved me 4 shots.

 

https://www.google.c...2!4d-82.1022494

 

Would love to see phil's press conference.. "Well I listened to a guy online named PSG and I just didn't get the results I hoped for. What a mistake. I decided to take driver out of my bag for the rest of my career. I've also decided to put tsecor on my bag and I've also made him my new swing coach. Now i will definitely hit more fairways and probably another major. That guy is a stud. matthewb on the other hand.....lol...."

 

Fixed it for you.

now its fixed

[JeffreySpicoli]

Now that's truly funny! :D

 

Thanks.

 

Enjoy your weekend, everyone.

 

I'm going to go pound the sh*t out of some balls tomorrow on a course where there's little to no reason to ever hit 3w over driver.

 

I guarantee I won't shoot 77 and then think a 3W would've saved me 4 shots.

 

https://www.google.c...2!4d-82.1022494

 

Would love to see phil's press conference.. "Well I listened to a guy online named PSG and I just didn't get the results I hoped for. What a mistake. I decided to take driver out of my bag for the rest of my career. I've also decided to put tsecor on my bag and I've also made him my new swing coach. Now i will definitely hit more fairways and probably another major. That guy is a stud. matthewb on the other hand.....lol...."

 

Fixed it for you.

now its fixed

 

Wait, you said you'd blocked me. Did you tell yet another fib?

 

(Also, I don't really want Phil calling me a stud. But it's cool that you do. Interesting, but cool.)

[CBJ]

I just switched to a 44.25" driver and it is as accurate as my 43" 3-wood

[tarmactrr]

I usually get killed for pointing out these little details (because for some reason golfers are convinced based on nothing that being in the fairway matters) but it is much, much better to be 260 in the rough than 240 in the fairway. Twenty extra yards off the tee (about 10% in this scenario) is worth almost three tenths of a stroke per hole.

 

So to answer your question: no. It depends on the player of course, but distance and speed are king in this game. Period.

 

Uh no.

[EKELLY]

Drivers are too long for the average golfer. Most guys should be in a strong 3-wood if they don't hit the driver well. Truth is, MOST guys don't hit the driver well enough. Doesn't matter if you pound a couple out there 300, it's the overall accuracy. BUT, just about every guy I play with is looking for more yardage for those 3-4 fairways they hit a round......LOL

[pinestreetgolf]

MOST guys don't hit the driver well enough.

 

Most players are abysmal at playing good recovery shots because they don't practice them. Then they contort themselves into knots trying to hit 14 fairways a round (which never, ever happens). Hitting iron recovery shots is just as important as hitting good short game shots and they get next to no attention in practice.

 

If you practiced nine shots for two months instead of just trying to hit high, straight irons on the range your acceptable driver misses would increase exponentially, allowing you to hit bombs more often and causing your scores to plummet.

 

The fact that you have to hit it short to hit the fairway is (generally) an iron problem, not a driver problem. This is not applicable to hazards or ridiculous situations. But if you get in some light woods and its an automatic 5, thats not the tee shots fault. You stink at iron recovery shots.

 

When you blade a chip, you go practice your short game (you don''t bemoan the iron that missed the green). When you can't get out of light woods, you blame your driver (you don't bemoan your inability to hit a ground ball on command a certain length). Those two approaches are contradictory. Being able to hit an iron out of a tough lie, around a tree, or flighted low under a branch is the full swing version of a short game.

 

So, you can either try to hit 14 fairways a round at shorter distance and just take bogeys or worse when you miss, or you can try to hit your driver hard and actually practice and plan during practice for the (inevitable) misses. Pros are incredible at recovery shots. That's why they almost never blow up.

 

The importance of hitting the fairway varies in direct proportion to your skill at iron recovery shots. Most weaker players have no skill in that area whatsoever, and therefore are obsessed with hitting the fairway. They work non-stop on hitting tee shots straight and spend literally zero minutes developing rudimentary recovery skills that would allow them to become significantly more aggressive.

 

Basically, there is no difference between what you fairway guys are saying here and a player taking the philosophy of never, ever practicing short game and then hitting PW-PW to make sure they got on the green from 200. That's silly. Hit the 5 iron (or whatever) and practice chipping. Similarly, hit the driver and practice what to do if it goes wrong!

[dog flog]

MOST guys don't hit the driver well enough.

 

Most players are abysmal at playing good recovery shots because they don't practice them. Then they contort themselves into knots trying to hit 14 fairways a round (which never, ever happens). Hitting iron recovery shots is just as important as hitting good short game shots and they get next to no attention in practice.

 

If you practiced nine shots for two months instead of just trying to hit high, straight irons on the range your acceptable driver misses would increase exponentially, allowing you to hit bombs more often and causing your scores to plummet.

 

The fact that you have to hit it short to hit the fairway is (generally) an iron problem, not a driver problem. This is not applicable to hazards or ridiculous situations. But if you get in some light woods and its an automatic 5, thats not the tee shots fault. You stink at iron recovery shots.

 

When you blade a chip, you go practice your short game (you don''t bemoan the iron that missed the green). When you can't get out of light woods, you blame your driver (you don't bemoan your inability to hit a ground ball on command a certain length). Those two approaches are contradictory. Being able to hit an iron out of a tough lie, around a tree, or flighted low under a branch is the full swing version of a short game.

 

So, you can either try to hit 14 fairways a round at shorter distance and just take bogeys or worse when you miss, or you can try to hit your driver hard and actually practice and plan during practice for the (inevitable) misses. Pros are incredible at recovery shots. That's why they almost never blow up.

 

The importance of hitting the fairway varies in direct proportion to your skill at iron recovery shots. Most weaker players have no skill in that area whatsoever, and therefore are obsessed with hitting the fairway. They work non-stop on hitting tee shots straight and spend literally zero minutes developing rudimentary recovery skills that would allow them to become significantly more aggressive.

 

Basically, there is no difference between what you fairway guys are saying here and a player taking the philosophy of never, ever practicing short game and then hitting PW-PW to make sure they got on the green from 200. That's silly. Hit the 5 iron (or whatever) and practice chipping. Similarly, hit the driver and practice what to do if it goes wrong!

I like the points you're making re recovery shots but it's bugging me that you're calling them iron recovery shots. Why not just recovery shots? My 9 wood (over the trees and onto the green) is my favorite recovery club. It's not her fault she was born with a crown and a wide bottom.

[pinestreetgolf]

MOST guys don't hit the driver well enough.

 

Most players are abysmal at playing good recovery shots because they don't practice them. Then they contort themselves into knots trying to hit 14 fairways a round (which never, ever happens). Hitting iron recovery shots is just as important as hitting good short game shots and they get next to no attention in practice.

 

If you practiced nine shots for two months instead of just trying to hit high, straight irons on the range your acceptable driver misses would increase exponentially, allowing you to hit bombs more often and causing your scores to plummet.

 

The fact that you have to hit it short to hit the fairway is (generally) an iron problem, not a driver problem. This is not applicable to hazards or ridiculous situations. But if you get in some light woods and its an automatic 5, thats not the tee shots fault. You stink at iron recovery shots.

 

When you blade a chip, you go practice your short game (you don''t bemoan the iron that missed the green). When you can't get out of light woods, you blame your driver (you don't bemoan your inability to hit a ground ball on command a certain length). Those two approaches are contradictory. Being able to hit an iron out of a tough lie, around a tree, or flighted low under a branch is the full swing version of a short game.

 

So, you can either try to hit 14 fairways a round at shorter distance and just take bogeys or worse when you miss, or you can try to hit your driver hard and actually practice and plan during practice for the (inevitable) misses. Pros are incredible at recovery shots. That's why they almost never blow up.

 

The importance of hitting the fairway varies in direct proportion to your skill at iron recovery shots. Most weaker players have no skill in that area whatsoever, and therefore are obsessed with hitting the fairway. They work non-stop on hitting tee shots straight and spend literally zero minutes developing rudimentary recovery skills that would allow them to become significantly more aggressive.

 

Basically, there is no difference between what you fairway guys are saying here and a player taking the philosophy of never, ever practicing short game and then hitting PW-PW to make sure they got on the green from 200. That's silly. Hit the 5 iron (or whatever) and practice chipping. Similarly, hit the driver and practice what to do if it goes wrong!

I like the points you're making re recovery shots but it's bugging me that you're calling them iron recovery shots. Why not just recovery shots? My 9 wood (over the trees and onto the green) is my favorite recovery club. It's not her fault she was born with a crown and a wide bottom.

 

Fair! Recovery shots period. No discrimination here.

[Ri_Redneck]

MOST guys don't hit the driver well enough.

 

Most players are abysmal at playing good recovery shots because they don't practice them. Then they contort themselves into knots trying to hit 14 fairways a round (which never, ever happens). Hitting iron recovery shots is just as important as hitting good short game shots and they get next to no attention in practice.

 

If you practiced nine shots for two months instead of just trying to hit high, straight irons on the range your acceptable driver misses would increase exponentially, allowing you to hit bombs more often and causing your scores to plummet.

 

The fact that you have to hit it short to hit the fairway is (generally) an iron problem, not a driver problem. This is not applicable to hazards or ridiculous situations. But if you get in some light woods and its an automatic 5, thats not the tee shots fault. You stink at iron recovery shots.

 

When you blade a chip, you go practice your short game (you don''t bemoan the iron that missed the green). When you can't get out of light woods, you blame your driver (you don't bemoan your inability to hit a ground ball on command a certain length). Those two approaches are contradictory. Being able to hit an iron out of a tough lie, around a tree, or flighted low under a branch is the full swing version of a short game.

 

So, you can either try to hit 14 fairways a round at shorter distance and just take bogeys or worse when you miss, or you can try to hit your driver hard and actually practice and plan during practice for the (inevitable) misses. Pros are incredible at recovery shots. That's why they almost never blow up.

 

The importance of hitting the fairway varies in direct proportion to your skill at iron recovery shots. Most weaker players have no skill in that area whatsoever, and therefore are obsessed with hitting the fairway. They work non-stop on hitting tee shots straight and spend literally zero minutes developing rudimentary recovery skills that would allow them to become significantly more aggressive.

 

Basically, there is no difference between what you fairway guys are saying here and a player taking the philosophy of never, ever practicing short game and then hitting PW-PW to make sure they got on the green from 200. That's silly. Hit the 5 iron (or whatever) and practice chipping. Similarly, hit the driver and practice what to do if it goes wrong!

 

PSG, had you REALLY rather be punching out of the trees from 100 instead of hitting a wedge shot from 120 in the fairway? Because that's exactly what your preaching here. It's just 20 freakin yards!! In angular dispersion from that distance, you're talking INCHES difference between those two clubs when playing an identical shot. But....... a punch out of the trees from 100 yds IS NOT and identical shot than a stock GW from 120. And I will bet ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY that you can't hit 10 shots from each location and have the punch shots be closer than the stock GW shots. Put a trap in the mix and it's over with. And, you will NEVER convince ANY OF US that ANY pro would rather have a 100 yd punch out of the trees than a 120 yd shot from the fairway. That's just idiotic!

 

Also, you want to know why all those high caps are practicing those straight iron shots all the time, because only about 20% of their irons shots go high and straight! The rest are tops, shanks, thins, fats, etc. I watch them all the time. They don't HIT the shot every time they try it, that's why they're practicing it. But YOU sit here and criticize all these people you don't even know as if they're a bunch of friggin idiots! I think there are a lot of folks getting a little tired of that.

 

Lastly, I actually hit more GIRs yesterday than usual, wanna know why? Cause I was hitting full shots into the greens on almost every hole. NOTHING in that odd 90-50 yd range. I had approach shots (in the fairway) from 110 to 235 that gave me birdie putts (unfortunately, I didn't make any. Left 5 hanging on the edge of the cup). Just kinda sucked at putting for some reason.

 

BT

[pinestreetgolf]

PSG, had you REALLY rather be punching out of the trees from 100 instead of hitting a wedge shot from 120 in the fairway? Because that's exactly what your preaching here.

 

Also, you want to know why all those high caps are practicing those straight iron shots all the time, because only about 20% of their irons shots go high and straight! The rest are tops, shanks, thins, fats, etc. I watch them all the time. They don't HIT the shot every time they try it, that's why they're practicing it. But YOU sit here and criticize all these people you don't even know as if they're a bunch of friggin idiots! I think there are a lot of folks getting a little tired of that.

BT

 

Of course not, but that isn't a correct analysis. You don't know you are going to be in the trees from 100 when you decide which club to hit. Obviously if I know beforehand I'm going to mess up my driver I wouldn't hit it. What you are completely omitting is that I have a chance to be in the fairway from 100 yards if I hit it the driver well, and I have a chance to be in the woods at 120 if I hit the 3 wood poorly. The 3 wood isn't a magic club. You will hit some percent of them poorly. Laying back off the tee isn't a choice between the woods and the fairway. Thats my whole point. Laying back off the tee is a choice between a higher chance at the woods and an easier chance at biridie with a good shot versus a higher chance of the fairway but a harder shot versus less of a chance of the woods. Your post reads as if 3w is guarenteed to be good and driver is guarenteed to be bad. That isn't the choice.

 

As to the second part, I don't know if 'people' are getting 'tired' of it (you don't have to keep reading and posting in these threads to tell me your getting tired of it) but you are correct that I don''t think high handicappers practice well. That's most of the reason they are high handicappers. The worse you are the less you should practice hitting straight shots off perfect lies. If you really want to fix the fats hitting out of crap is a much better way to do it than hitting off of perfect grass, and it will be a much better representation of what you will encounter on the course.

 

This assumes you see it as practice. If you just like to hit balls at the range, feel free to ignore me, but its not going to help your score at all. This also assumes you are not content to be a high cap. I think 'friggin idiots' is strong, but not changing it up if you've been a high cap for 3+ years and are trying to get lower doesn't make sense to me. If a method isn't working it might not be correct. Making practice as much like play as possible and as difficult as possible makes the time spent much more effective in terms of lasting improvement. Not hitting straight balls off perfect grass accomplishes both goals. There are guys I know who just want to have some drinks and whack the ball. My posts arn't for them.

[Stuart_G]

Laying back off the tee isn't a choice between the woods and the fairway. Thats my whole point. Laying back off the tee is a choice between a higher chance at the woods and an easier chance at biridie with a good shot versus a higher chance of the fairway but a harder shot versus less of a chance of the woods. Your post reads as if 3w is guarenteed to be good and driver is guarenteed to be bad. That isn't the choice.

 

Only in the same way that your posts' read that you always score better on each hole hitting driver. He knows every choice is a percentages game - everyone who plays the game knows that. Some just know their percentages better then others. If, for a given hole, I have a 90% of keeping it out of the trees with my 3wd, and only 60% with my driver, the choice is a no brainer.

 

 

And you over emphasize the importance of the recovery shot. A good recovery shot (no matter how much practice you put it) will rarely be able to make up scoring potential you lost by hitting a shot that needed to be recovered from. Even Broadie knows that it really is more important to avoid getting into trouble off the tee (see the quote above). You can't recover from OB, you can't recover from the majority of balls that go in hazards, and (at least on 95% of the course I play) when in the trees, a real good recovery shot will only get you back into the fairway and hopefully take double or worse out of play. So for most practice would be better spent elsewhere.

[deadsolid...shank]

PSG, had you REALLY rather be punching out of the trees from 100 instead of hitting a wedge shot from 120 in the fairway? Because that's exactly what your preaching here.

 

Also, you want to know why all those high caps are practicing those straight iron shots all the time, because only about 20% of their irons shots go high and straight! The rest are tops, shanks, thins, fats, etc. I watch them all the time. They don't HIT the shot every time they try it, that's why they're practicing it. But YOU sit here and criticize all these people you don't even know as if they're a bunch of friggin idiots! I think there are a lot of folks getting a little tired of that.

BT

 

 

 

As to the second part, I don't know if 'people' are getting 'tired' of it (you don't have to keep reading and posting in these threads to tell me your getting tired of it) but you are correct that I don''t think high handicappers practice well. That's most of the reason they are high handicappers. The worse you are the less you should practice hitting straight shots off perfect lies. If you really want to fix the fats hitting out of crap is a much better way to do it than hitting off of perfect grass, and it will be a much better representation of what you will encounter on the course.

 

 

 

I disagree wholeheartedly with this. What the high(er) cap should be working on IS being able to make solid contact on a more consistent basis, or at least more frequently than they currently do (since using the word consisent will open another semantics debate).

 

Why in the world would you spend time practing recovery shots, which in order for them to be successful have to be even more precise than a shot from a unimpeeded place, when you dont hit it solidly from a clean lie on a regular basis?

 

So the 20 handicapper practices hitting shots from under a branch, guess what happens when he encounters that on the course. He still misses the recovery shot most of the time anyway. Because he is a 20 handicapper. Funny how much better a person becomes at hitting those recovery shots after they learned to hit the ball better in general, which happens in the controlled environment of the range. Don't put "the cart in front of the horse".

[LoopySwing13]

Laying back off the tee isn't a choice between the woods and the fairway. Thats my whole point. Laying back off the tee is a choice between a higher chance at the woods and an easier chance at biridie with a good shot versus a higher chance of the fairway but a harder shot versus less of a chance of the woods. Your post reads as if 3w is guarenteed to be good and driver is guarenteed to be bad. That isn't the choice.

 

Only in the same way that your posts' read that you always score better on each hole hitting driver. He knows every choice is a percentages game - everyone who plays the game knows that. Some just know their percentages better then others. If, for a given hole, I have a 90% of keeping it out of the trees with my 3wd, and only 60% with my driver, the choice is a no brainer.

 

 

And you over emphasize the importance of the recovery shot. A good recovery shot (no matter how much practice you put it) will rarely be able to make up scoring potential you lost by hitting a shot that needed to be recovered from. Even Broadie knows that it really is more important to avoid getting into trouble off the tee (see the quote above). You can't recover from OB, you can't recover from the majority of balls that go in hazards, and (at least on 95% of the course I play) when in the trees, a real good recovery shot will only get you back into the fairway and hopefully take double or worse out of play. So for most practice would be better spent elsewhere.

 

Stuart, love reading your posts and do agree with what you are saying. I just feel like there is no consideration for a ball being 5-7 yards in the rough. Some courses truly have 20yd wid fairways and 5 yards in the rough is in the trees. The way some people have described the game, it sounds like they play 15 yd wide fairways and left and right of the fairway is a cliff.

 

No one can argue that being ob or in a water hazard is fine because, well I hit driver! The majority of public courses and some private courses allow for a 5-8 yard miss into the rough on a (for example) 30 yard wide fairway and still have a shot to the green. Me personally, I would rather be slightly in the rough with 100 in then fairway at 130 (assuming I don't get a horrible lie). As PSG said, if you KNEW off the tee, well if I hit driver I will either be buried in rough, behind a tree, or OB, then would any logical person still hit it? No, but if you take that same assumption with a 23 yard miss left or right of center (30 yard wide, 15 left or right + 8 yard miss) that's a 23 yard miss assuming you can aim properly. If you miss another 7-10 yards (now 30+ yards offline) and are now OB or in the water etc, you have bigger problems then which club to tee off with. If for some people they can miraculously hit a 3 wood 25 yards less offline with a 3 wood, then hit it. But learning to play a driver and cutting that miss down will improve scores.

 

As you improve your driving accuracy and cut down on side spin and make better contact, distance will go up and you will have shorter clubs to the green. I know I'm making a general argument for a sub 20 capper, but the reality is, EVERY 20+ capper I play with shoots better scores getting farther off the tee.

 

For example, one of our directors sprays the ball a ton because he over swings an tilts towards the target. When I finally got him to swing what he felt was an "iron swing" he gained 15 yards and cut his dispersion in half. We played 18 holes and he shot 45 on the front, and on the back worked on a controlled swing and shot 40 on the back. Another gentleman in my golf league routinely hits an RBZ 5 iron because he does not feel good about woods. We got him to use a hybrid/3 wood and he was +3 through 5 holes before we got rained out. Are there some other factors that may have helped..? Putting a little better, or a good iron shot, of course. But for them to have an 8 iron into a green instead of a 5/6 iron, it makes it an easier shot.

 

Again, all the respect Stuart, as I know you have a vast knowledge base but this is just my experiences.

[deadsolid...shank]

Laying back off the tee isn't a choice between the woods and the fairway. Thats my whole point. Laying back off the tee is a choice between a higher chance at the woods and an easier chance at biridie with a good shot versus a higher chance of the fairway but a harder shot versus less of a chance of the woods. Your post reads as if 3w is guarenteed to be good and driver is guarenteed to be bad. That isn't the choice.

 

Only in the same way that your posts' read that you always score better on each hole hitting driver. He knows every choice is a percentages game - everyone who plays the game knows that. Some just know their percentages better then others. If, for a given hole, I have a 90% of keeping it out of the trees with my 3wd, and only 60% with my driver, the choice is a no brainer.

 

 

And you over emphasize the importance of the recovery shot. A good recovery shot (no matter how much practice you put it) will rarely be able to make up scoring potential you lost by hitting a shot that needed to be recovered from. Even Broadie knows that it really is more important to avoid getting into trouble off the tee (see the quote above). You can't recover from OB, you can't recover from the majority of balls that go in hazards, and (at least on 95% of the course I play) when in the trees, a real good recovery shot will only get you back into the fairway and hopefully take double or worse out of play. So for most practice would be better spent elsewhere.

 

Stuart, love reading your posts and do agree with what you are saying. I just feel like there is no consideration for a ball being 5-7 yards in the rough. Some courses truly have 20yd wid fairways and 5 yards in the rough is in the trees. The way some people have described the game, it sounds like they play 15 yd wide fairways and left and right of the fairway is a cliff.

 

No one can argue that being ob or in a water hazard is fine because, well I hit driver! The majority of public courses and some private courses allow for a 5-8 yard miss into the rough on a (for example) 30 yard wide fairway and still have a shot to the green. Me personally, I would rather be slightly in the rough with 100 in then fairway at 130 (assuming I don't get a horrible lie). As PSG said, if you KNEW off the tee, well if I hit driver I will either be buried in rough, behind a tree, or OB, then would any logical person still hit it? No, but if you take that same assumption with a 23 yard miss left or right of center (30 yard wide, 15 left or right + 8 yard miss) that's a 23 yard miss assuming you can aim properly. If you miss another 7-10 yards (now 30+ yards offline) and are now OB or in the water etc, you have bigger problems then which club to tee off with. If for some people they can miraculously hit a 3 wood 25 yards less offline with a 3 wood, then hit it. But learning to play a driver and cutting that miss down will improve scores.

 

As you improve your driving accuracy and cut down on side spin and make better contact, distance will go up and you will have shorter clubs to the green. I know I'm making a general argument for a sub 20 capper, but the reality is, EVERY 20+ capper I play with shoots better scores getting farther off the tee.

 

For example, one of our directors sprays the ball a ton because he over swings an tilts towards the target. When I finally got him to swing what he felt was an "iron swing" he gained 15 yards and cut his dispersion in half. We played 18 holes and he shot 45 on the front, and on the back worked on a controlled swing and shot 40 on the back. Another gentleman in my golf league routinely hits an RBZ 5 iron because he does not feel good about woods. We got him to use a hybrid/3 wood and he was +3 through 5 holes before we got rained out. Are there some other factors that may have helped..? Putting a little better, or a good iron shot, of course. But for them to have an 8 iron into a green instead of a 5/6 iron, it makes it an easier shot.

 

Again, all the respect Stuart, as I know you have a vast knowledge base but this is just my experiences.

 

Very reasonable post.

 

I think that's why stats (like the referenced books) are difficult for me to embrace. Every single situation is so unique. I know they are somewhat generalized, but some take them as gosepel.

 

At our course, you MIGHT have a shot being just five yards off the fairway, but if you do, you probably can't kee the ball on the green.

[LoopySwing13]

Laying back off the tee isn't a choice between the woods and the fairway. Thats my whole point. Laying back off the tee is a choice between a higher chance at the woods and an easier chance at biridie with a good shot versus a higher chance of the fairway but a harder shot versus less of a chance of the woods. Your post reads as if 3w is guarenteed to be good and driver is guarenteed to be bad. That isn't the choice.

 

Only in the same way that your posts' read that you always score better on each hole hitting driver. He knows every choice is a percentages game - everyone who plays the game knows that. Some just know their percentages better then others. If, for a given hole, I have a 90% of keeping it out of the trees with my 3wd, and only 60% with my driver, the choice is a no brainer.

 

 

And you over emphasize the importance of the recovery shot. A good recovery shot (no matter how much practice you put it) will rarely be able to make up scoring potential you lost by hitting a shot that needed to be recovered from. Even Broadie knows that it really is more important to avoid getting into trouble off the tee (see the quote above). You can't recover from OB, you can't recover from the majority of balls that go in hazards, and (at least on 95% of the course I play) when in the trees, a real good recovery shot will only get you back into the fairway and hopefully take double or worse out of play. So for most practice would be better spent elsewhere.

 

Stuart, love reading your posts and do agree with what you are saying. I just feel like there is no consideration for a ball being 5-7 yards in the rough. Some courses truly have 20yd wid fairways and 5 yards in the rough is in the trees. The way some people have described the game, it sounds like they play 15 yd wide fairways and left and right of the fairway is a cliff.

 

No one can argue that being ob or in a water hazard is fine because, well I hit driver! The majority of public courses and some private courses allow for a 5-8 yard miss into the rough on a (for example) 30 yard wide fairway and still have a shot to the green. Me personally, I would rather be slightly in the rough with 100 in then fairway at 130 (assuming I don't get a horrible lie). As PSG said, if you KNEW off the tee, well if I hit driver I will either be buried in rough, behind a tree, or OB, then would any logical person still hit it? No, but if you take that same assumption with a 23 yard miss left or right of center (30 yard wide, 15 left or right + 8 yard miss) that's a 23 yard miss assuming you can aim properly. If you miss another 7-10 yards (now 30+ yards offline) and are now OB or in the water etc, you have bigger problems then which club to tee off with. If for some people they can miraculously hit a 3 wood 25 yards less offline with a 3 wood, then hit it. But learning to play a driver and cutting that miss down will improve scores.

 

As you improve your driving accuracy and cut down on side spin and make better contact, distance will go up and you will have shorter clubs to the green. I know I'm making a general argument for a sub 20 capper, but the reality is, EVERY 20+ capper I play with shoots better scores getting farther off the tee.

 

For example, one of our directors sprays the ball a ton because he over swings an tilts towards the target. When I finally got him to swing what he felt was an "iron swing" he gained 15 yards and cut his dispersion in half. We played 18 holes and he shot 45 on the front, and on the back worked on a controlled swing and shot 40 on the back. Another gentleman in my golf league routinely hits an RBZ 5 iron because he does not feel good about woods. We got him to use a hybrid/3 wood and he was +3 through 5 holes before we got rained out. Are there some other factors that may have helped..? Putting a little better, or a good iron shot, of course. But for them to have an 8 iron into a green instead of a 5/6 iron, it makes it an easier shot.

 

Again, all the respect Stuart, as I know you have a vast knowledge base but this is just my experiences.

 

Very reasonable post.

 

I think that's why stats (like the referenced books) are difficult for me to embrace. Every single situation is so unique. I know they are somewhat generalized, but some take them as gosepel.

 

At our course, you MIGHT have a shot being just five yards off the fairway, but if you do, you probably can't kee the ball on the green.

 

And you are not wrong either. I think there has been a slight disconnect with general golf strategy versus course management or course strategy. If you tell me your average Par4 from the tips is 415 with those tree lined fairways and I only have 10 yards left or right of center, I will have to make a decision if the risk is worth hitting driver due to the length of the holes. Some holes may be better to try to hit a running 3 wood or driving iron, and some may need to just trust a driver.

 

All valid points which is why I think it boils down to what you as a player are comfortable with. A some point though, if your miss is that big where you consider taking a club completely out of the bag, it either is an ill fitted club or a really bad mechanical error which requires lessons or practice.

 

 

[JeffreySpicoli]

Fawcett is very clear that one shouldn't bomb away with driver all the time. He's even built a decision tree to help with this. You'll learn about it in his NCAA driving video on YouTube.

 

Again, here are his rules of thumb on tee shots . . .

 

1. Length is the most important factor for tee shots. Think Driver first and adjust down.

 

2. 65 yards between penalty hazards to challenge those hazards. Water and OB, OB on both sides, water on both sides.

 

3. When there is trouble on both sides of fairway (lake-sand-tress-OB) either carrying or being short of one hazard is likely ideal - 40 yards between hazards to challenge them. Lesser of two evils.

 

4. Stick to YOUR shot shape on almost ALL tee shots. Use strategy for doglegs, not shape.

 

5. There is little to be gained by forcing it closer once you will have a wedge in your hand. Being closer is better, but do not take excess risk to gain that yardage.

 

​6. Do not think "I can't miss it there". Have a sound strategy and then simply let the percentages play out. You should miss it everywhere occasionally.

 

What's both amusing and perverse in this thread are attempts to correct PSG that then leap to an assumption that discrediting PSG allows one to ignore Broadie, Fawcett, and analytics in general.

 

So rather than continuing to pick at PSG, might someone explain what's wrong with Broadie and Fawcett and a driver first approach? ("Analytics doesn't address specifics" isn't useful. Fawcett clearly allows for specifics.)

[tsecor]

in PSG's world, Justin Thomas was the most accurate guy on hole # 6 for the entire tourney

[Stuart_G]

Stuart, love reading your posts and do agree with what you are saying. I just feel like there is no consideration for a ball being 5-7 yards in the rough. Some courses truly have 20yd wid fairways and 5 yards in the rough is in the trees. The way some people have described the game, it sounds like they play 15 yd wide fairways and left and right of the fairway is a cliff.

 

No one can argue that being ob or in a water hazard is fine because, well I hit driver! The majority of public courses and some private courses allow for a 5-8 yard miss into the rough on a (for example) 30 yard wide fairway and still have a shot to the green. Me personally, I would rather be slightly in the rough with 100 in then fairway at 130 (assuming I don't get a horrible lie). As PSG said, if you KNEW off the tee, well if I hit driver I will either be buried in rough, behind a tree, or OB, then would any logical person still hit it? No, but if you take that same assumption with a 23 yard miss left or right of center (30 yard wide, 15 left or right + 8 yard miss) that's a 23 yard miss assuming you can aim properly. If you miss another 7-10 yards (now 30+ yards offline) and are now OB or in the water etc, you have bigger problems then which club to tee off with. If for some people they can miraculously hit a 3 wood 25 yards less offline with a 3 wood, then hit it. But learning to play a driver and cutting that miss down will improve scores.

 

As you improve your driving accuracy and cut down on side spin and make better contact, distance will go up and you will have shorter clubs to the green. I know I'm making a general argument for a sub 20 capper, but the reality is, EVERY 20+ capper I play with shoots better scores getting farther off the tee.

 

For example, one of our directors sprays the ball a ton because he over swings an tilts towards the target. When I finally got him to swing what he felt was an "iron swing" he gained 15 yards and cut his dispersion in half. We played 18 holes and he shot 45 on the front, and on the back worked on a controlled swing and shot 40 on the back. Another gentleman in my golf league routinely hits an RBZ 5 iron because he does not feel good about woods. We got him to use a hybrid/3 wood and he was +3 through 5 holes before we got rained out. Are there some other factors that may have helped..? Putting a little better, or a good iron shot, of course. But for them to have an 8 iron into a green instead of a 5/6 iron, it makes it an easier shot.

 

Again, all the respect Stuart, as I know you have a vast knowledge base but this is just my experiences.

 

No disrespect taken. But I never mentioned anything about fairway vs rough - so nothing you've said here is in any way contrary to anything I've said (or how I feel). My arguments have been more toward PSG's disregard for staying out of trouble. Distance is more important then fairway vs rough but staying out of trouble is way more important then distance. Broadie's lack of importance for tee shot 'accuracy' is solely based on the fact that approach shot proximity is way more important. But the quest for more distance completely falls apart when you end up not having any viable approach shot.

[Fubuman]

Wow!!!

This thread still going???

 

 

[JeffreySpicoli]

Stuart, love reading your posts and do agree with what you are saying. I just feel like there is no consideration for a ball being 5-7 yards in the rough. Some courses truly have 20yd wid fairways and 5 yards in the rough is in the trees. The way some people have described the game, it sounds like they play 15 yd wide fairways and left and right of the fairway is a cliff.

 

No one can argue that being ob or in a water hazard is fine because, well I hit driver! The majority of public courses and some private courses allow for a 5-8 yard miss into the rough on a (for example) 30 yard wide fairway and still have a shot to the green. Me personally, I would rather be slightly in the rough with 100 in then fairway at 130 (assuming I don't get a horrible lie). As PSG said, if you KNEW off the tee, well if I hit driver I will either be buried in rough, behind a tree, or OB, then would any logical person still hit it? No, but if you take that same assumption with a 23 yard miss left or right of center (30 yard wide, 15 left or right + 8 yard miss) that's a 23 yard miss assuming you can aim properly. If you miss another 7-10 yards (now 30+ yards offline) and are now OB or in the water etc, you have bigger problems then which club to tee off with. If for some people they can miraculously hit a 3 wood 25 yards less offline with a 3 wood, then hit it. But learning to play a driver and cutting that miss down will improve scores.

 

As you improve your driving accuracy and cut down on side spin and make better contact, distance will go up and you will have shorter clubs to the green. I know I'm making a general argument for a sub 20 capper, but the reality is, EVERY 20+ capper I play with shoots better scores getting farther off the tee.

 

For example, one of our directors sprays the ball a ton because he over swings an tilts towards the target. When I finally got him to swing what he felt was an "iron swing" he gained 15 yards and cut his dispersion in half. We played 18 holes and he shot 45 on the front, and on the back worked on a controlled swing and shot 40 on the back. Another gentleman in my golf league routinely hits an RBZ 5 iron because he does not feel good about woods. We got him to use a hybrid/3 wood and he was +3 through 5 holes before we got rained out. Are there some other factors that may have helped..? Putting a little better, or a good iron shot, of course. But for them to have an 8 iron into a green instead of a 5/6 iron, it makes it an easier shot.

 

Again, all the respect Stuart, as I know you have a vast knowledge base but this is just my experiences.

 

No disrespect taken. But I never mentioned anything about fairway vs rough - so nothing you've said here is in any way contrary to anything I've said (or how I feel). My arguments have been more toward PSG's disregard for staying out of trouble. Distance is more important then fairway vs rough but staying out of trouble is way more important then distance. Broadie's lack of importance for tee shot 'accuracy' is solely based on the fact that approach shot proximity is way more important. But the quest for more distance completely falls apart when you end up not having any viable approach shot.

 

Aren't you oversimplying Broadie on this?

[Stuart_G]

Stuart, love reading your posts and do agree with what you are saying. I just feel like there is no consideration for a ball being 5-7 yards in the rough. Some courses truly have 20yd wid fairways and 5 yards in the rough is in the trees. The way some people have described the game, it sounds like they play 15 yd wide fairways and left and right of the fairway is a cliff.

 

No one can argue that being ob or in a water hazard is fine because, well I hit driver! The majority of public courses and some private courses allow for a 5-8 yard miss into the rough on a (for example) 30 yard wide fairway and still have a shot to the green. Me personally, I would rather be slightly in the rough with 100 in then fairway at 130 (assuming I don't get a horrible lie). As PSG said, if you KNEW off the tee, well if I hit driver I will either be buried in rough, behind a tree, or OB, then would any logical person still hit it? No, but if you take that same assumption with a 23 yard miss left or right of center (30 yard wide, 15 left or right + 8 yard miss) that's a 23 yard miss assuming you can aim properly. If you miss another 7-10 yards (now 30+ yards offline) and are now OB or in the water etc, you have bigger problems then which club to tee off with. If for some people they can miraculously hit a 3 wood 25 yards less offline with a 3 wood, then hit it. But learning to play a driver and cutting that miss down will improve scores.

 

As you improve your driving accuracy and cut down on side spin and make better contact, distance will go up and you will have shorter clubs to the green. I know I'm making a general argument for a sub 20 capper, but the reality is, EVERY 20+ capper I play with shoots better scores getting farther off the tee.

 

For example, one of our directors sprays the ball a ton because he over swings an tilts towards the target. When I finally got him to swing what he felt was an "iron swing" he gained 15 yards and cut his dispersion in half. We played 18 holes and he shot 45 on the front, and on the back worked on a controlled swing and shot 40 on the back. Another gentleman in my golf league routinely hits an RBZ 5 iron because he does not feel good about woods. We got him to use a hybrid/3 wood and he was +3 through 5 holes before we got rained out. Are there some other factors that may have helped..? Putting a little better, or a good iron shot, of course. But for them to have an 8 iron into a green instead of a 5/6 iron, it makes it an easier shot.

 

Again, all the respect Stuart, as I know you have a vast knowledge base but this is just my experiences.

 

No disrespect taken. But I never mentioned anything about fairway vs rough - so nothing you've said here is in any way contrary to anything I've said (or how I feel). My arguments have been more toward PSG's disregard for staying out of trouble. Distance is more important then fairway vs rough but staying out of trouble is way more important then distance. Broadie's lack of importance for tee shot 'accuracy' is solely based on the fact that approach shot proximity is way more important. But the quest for more distance completely falls apart when you end up not having any viable approach shot.

 

Aren't you oversimplying Broadie on this?

 

No more then anyone else - and probably less :-)

[JeffreySpicoli]

Stuart, love reading your posts and do agree with what you are saying. I just feel like there is no consideration for a ball being 5-7 yards in the rough. Some courses truly have 20yd wid fairways and 5 yards in the rough is in the trees. The way some people have described the game, it sounds like they play 15 yd wide fairways and left and right of the fairway is a cliff.

 

No one can argue that being ob or in a water hazard is fine because, well I hit driver! The majority of public courses and some private courses allow for a 5-8 yard miss into the rough on a (for example) 30 yard wide fairway and still have a shot to the green. Me personally, I would rather be slightly in the rough with 100 in then fairway at 130 (assuming I don't get a horrible lie). As PSG said, if you KNEW off the tee, well if I hit driver I will either be buried in rough, behind a tree, or OB, then would any logical person still hit it? No, but if you take that same assumption with a 23 yard miss left or right of center (30 yard wide, 15 left or right + 8 yard miss) that's a 23 yard miss assuming you can aim properly. If you miss another 7-10 yards (now 30+ yards offline) and are now OB or in the water etc, you have bigger problems then which club to tee off with. If for some people they can miraculously hit a 3 wood 25 yards less offline with a 3 wood, then hit it. But learning to play a driver and cutting that miss down will improve scores.

 

As you improve your driving accuracy and cut down on side spin and make better contact, distance will go up and you will have shorter clubs to the green. I know I'm making a general argument for a sub 20 capper, but the reality is, EVERY 20+ capper I play with shoots better scores getting farther off the tee.

 

For example, one of our directors sprays the ball a ton because he over swings an tilts towards the target. When I finally got him to swing what he felt was an "iron swing" he gained 15 yards and cut his dispersion in half. We played 18 holes and he shot 45 on the front, and on the back worked on a controlled swing and shot 40 on the back. Another gentleman in my golf league routinely hits an RBZ 5 iron because he does not feel good about woods. We got him to use a hybrid/3 wood and he was +3 through 5 holes before we got rained out. Are there some other factors that may have helped..? Putting a little better, or a good iron shot, of course. But for them to have an 8 iron into a green instead of a 5/6 iron, it makes it an easier shot.

 

Again, all the respect Stuart, as I know you have a vast knowledge base but this is just my experiences.

 

No disrespect taken. But I never mentioned anything about fairway vs rough - so nothing you've said here is in any way contrary to anything I've said (or how I feel). My arguments have been more toward PSG's disregard for staying out of trouble. Distance is more important then fairway vs rough but staying out of trouble is way more important then distance. Broadie's lack of importance for tee shot 'accuracy' is solely based on the fact that approach shot proximity is way more important. But the quest for more distance completely falls apart when you end up not having any viable approach shot.

 

Aren't you oversimplying Broadie on this?

 

No more then anyone else - and probably less :-)

 

So what do you see as an honest interpretation of Broadie in the context you're referring to? Saying that you're going to oversimply because others are oversimplying isn't very helpful.

[Dan Drake]

As a high school golfer, I got the opportunity to work as a "shag boy" for a local weekend golf school and I met some very nice teachers. I asked one of them about what to work on next with my own game, being a 4/5 spot guy on my team as a junior, perhaps a 7 handicap.

 

His answer? Driver. He said I should learn to hit driver because a player (at the level we were playing at) who can hit their driver well has the opportunity (both hitting driver and using sound club selection judgement) to virtually eliminate double bogies from the card WHILE giving them self the most opportunities for birdies.

 

Sadly, I didn't listen very well.

 

Another note, this time about my dad. He has been a 6-9 hcp for the last 20 years. He is not longer than he used to be, club for club. He is not a better putter than he used to be. He is not a better chipper than he used to be. He is better out of the sand than he used to be. His iron play is the same, but shorter. And yet he is still the same handicap. How is that possible? He learned to hit driver. 20 years ago, he teed off every non-par 3 with a 4 iron. 190 carry, roll to 200 or so. Very accurate, but he had maxed out his scoring potential. He never shot under par.

 

A few years ago, I got him a hot faced, low spinning 3 wood and we called it his driver. He learned to hit that well, 220 carry, roll to 230ish, and he started to play better. He had his lowest cap of his life and shot under par multiple times. He has since taught himself a driver swing/shot and he is now able to maintain his cap, even as the rest of his game slowly deteriorates a bit (he's 67 fwiw).

 

The last time he played, he hit every fairway for the first time in his life. 14/14. He didn't post his best score ever, or anything of the sort. But if a straight-hitting (and relatively short hitting) guy with a consistent swing who has played 2+ times a week for the last 40 years and hit nothing but 4i's for 20+ of those years just had his first 14/14 round, it doesn't look good for the rest of us to do that very often. You are going to miss fairways. Miss them in the right spots with the right club selection.

I have more thoughts, but my fingers just cramped up and there' an Open to watch!

[Stuart_G]

So what do you see as an honest interpretation of Broadie in the context you're referring to? Saying that you're going to oversimply because others are oversimplying isn't very helpful.

 

What I said a long time ago in this thread. Everyone is different and you can't apply these stats universally in any way to anyone. They open our eyes to possibilities we might not have considered but they don't tell use what will happen if we change our 'normal' practices. Everyone has to track their own stats to accurately (no I don't just mean fairways hit) assess their performance with the different clubs (all the options, not just the ones they are 'used to' hitting) to make the best choices for their game and skill level for any given hole/course. Anything other then that is an oversimplification.

[tsecor]

As a high school golfer, I got the opportunity to work as a "shag boy" for a local weekend golf school and I met some very nice teachers. I asked one of them about what to work on next with my own game, being a 4/5 spot guy on my team as a junior, perhaps a 7 handicap.

 

His answer? Driver. He said I should learn to hit driver because a player (at the level we were playing at) who can hit their driver well has the opportunity (both hitting driver and using sound club selection judgement) to virtually eliminate double bogies from the card WHILE giving them self the most opportunities for birdies.

 

Sadly, I didn't listen very well.

 

Another note, this time about my dad. He has been a 6-9 hcp for the last 20 years. He is not longer than he used to be, club for club. He is not a better putter than he used to be. He is not a better chipper than he used to be. He is better out of the sand than he used to be. His iron play is the same, but shorter. And yet he is still the same handicap. How is that possible? He learned to hit driver. 20 years ago, he teed off every non-par 3 with a 4 iron. 190 carry, roll to 200 or so. Very accurate, but he had maxed out his scoring potential. He never shot under par.

 

A few years ago, I got him a hot faced, low spinning 3 wood and we called it his driver. He learned to hit that well, 220 carry, roll to 230ish, and he started to play better. He had his lowest cap of his life and shot under par multiple times. He has since taught himself a driver swing/shot and he is now able to maintain his cap, even as the rest of his game slowly deteriorates a bit (he's 67 fwiw).

 

The last time he played, he hit every fairway for the first time in his life. 14/14. He didn't post his best score ever, or anything of the sort. But if a straight-hitting (and relatively short hitting) guy with a consistent swing who has played 2+ times a week for the last 40 years and hit nothing but 4i's for 20+ of those years just had his first 14/14 round, it doesn't look good for the rest of us to do that very often. You are going to miss fairways. Miss them in the right spots with the right club selection.

I have more thoughts, but my fingers just cramped up and there' an Open to watch!

a 7 hdcp and played # 5 on the HS team? must have been some HS team

[Ri_Redneck]

Stuart, love reading your posts and do agree with what you are saying. I just feel like there is no consideration for a ball being 5-7 yards in the rough. Some courses truly have 20yd wid fairways and 5 yards in the rough is in the trees. The way some people have described the game, it sounds like they play 15 yd wide fairways and left and right of the fairway is a cliff.

 

No one can argue that being ob or in a water hazard is fine because, well I hit driver! The majority of public courses and some private courses allow for a 5-8 yard miss into the rough on a (for example) 30 yard wide fairway and still have a shot to the green. Me personally, I would rather be slightly in the rough with 100 in then fairway at 130 (assuming I don't get a horrible lie). As PSG said, if you KNEW off the tee, well if I hit driver I will either be buried in rough, behind a tree, or OB, then would any logical person still hit it? No, but if you take that same assumption with a 23 yard miss left or right of center (30 yard wide, 15 left or right + 8 yard miss) that's a 23 yard miss assuming you can aim properly. If you miss another 7-10 yards (now 30+ yards offline) and are now OB or in the water etc, you have bigger problems then which club to tee off with. If for some people they can miraculously hit a 3 wood 25 yards less offline with a 3 wood, then hit it. But learning to play a driver and cutting that miss down will improve scores.

 

As you improve your driving accuracy and cut down on side spin and make better contact, distance will go up and you will have shorter clubs to the green. I know I'm making a general argument for a sub 20 capper, but the reality is, EVERY 20+ capper I play with shoots better scores getting farther off the tee.

 

For example, one of our directors sprays the ball a ton because he over swings an tilts towards the target. When I finally got him to swing what he felt was an "iron swing" he gained 15 yards and cut his dispersion in half. We played 18 holes and he shot 45 on the front, and on the back worked on a controlled swing and shot 40 on the back. Another gentleman in my golf league routinely hits an RBZ 5 iron because he does not feel good about woods. We got him to use a hybrid/3 wood and he was +3 through 5 holes before we got rained out. Are there some other factors that may have helped..? Putting a little better, or a good iron shot, of course. But for them to have an 8 iron into a green instead of a 5/6 iron, it makes it an easier shot.

 

Again, all the respect Stuart, as I know you have a vast knowledge base but this is just my experiences.

 

No disrespect taken. But I never mentioned anything about fairway vs rough - so nothing you've said here is in any way contrary to anything I've said (or how I feel). My arguments have been more toward PSG's disregard for staying out of trouble. Distance is more important then fairway vs rough but staying out of trouble is way more important then distance. Broadie's lack of importance for tee shot 'accuracy' is solely based on the fact that approach shot proximity is way more important. But the quest for more distance completely falls apart when you end up not having any viable approach shot.

This is pretty much my argument too. I have no issue with playing aggressive, but he seems to be over-encouraging with it. Most high cap players I see are playing courses with most par 4s in the 300 to 350 range. Most of these holes they could play an IRON off the tee and still have a short iron / wedge in hand for their approach. Yet he seems to think they would be far better off whaling away with their normal 30 yd slice driver shot and hope for an easy punch out of the trees or 40 yd pitch from possibly thick rough. It just doesn't make sense regardless of what Broadie says.

 

BT

[Dan Drake]

As a high school golfer, I got the opportunity to work as a "shag boy" for a local weekend golf school and I met some very nice teachers. I asked one of them about what to work on next with my own game, being a 4/5 spot guy on my team as a junior, perhaps a 7 handicap.

 

His answer? Driver. He said I should learn to hit driver because a player (at the level we were playing at) who can hit their driver well has the opportunity (both hitting driver and using sound club selection judgement) to virtually eliminate double bogies from the card WHILE giving them self the most opportunities for birdies.

 

Sadly, I didn't listen very well.

 

Another note, this time about my dad. He has been a 6-9 hcp for the last 20 years. He is not longer than he used to be, club for club. He is not a better putter than he used to be. He is not a better chipper than he used to be. He is better out of the sand than he used to be. His iron play is the same, but shorter. And yet he is still the same handicap. How is that possible? He learned to hit driver. 20 years ago, he teed off every non-par 3 with a 4 iron. 190 carry, roll to 200 or so. Very accurate, but he had maxed out his scoring potential. He never shot under par.

 

A few years ago, I got him a hot faced, low spinning 3 wood and we called it his driver. He learned to hit that well, 220 carry, roll to 230ish, and he started to play better. He had his lowest cap of his life and shot under par multiple times. He has since taught himself a driver swing/shot and he is now able to maintain his cap, even as the rest of his game slowly deteriorates a bit (he's 67 fwiw).

 

The last time he played, he hit every fairway for the first time in his life. 14/14. He didn't post his best score ever, or anything of the sort. But if a straight-hitting (and relatively short hitting) guy with a consistent swing who has played 2+ times a week for the last 40 years and hit nothing but 4i's for 20+ of those years just had his first 14/14 round, it doesn't look good for the rest of us to do that very often. You are going to miss fairways. Miss them in the right spots with the right club selection.

I have more thoughts, but my fingers just cramped up and there' an Open to watch!

a 7 hdcp and played # 5 on the HS team? must have been some HS team

 

Our #1 was the 2nd best junior in the panhandle of FL, only Bubba was better. Yes, it was a good team.

[LoopySwing13]

As a high school golfer, I got the opportunity to work as a "shag boy" for a local weekend golf school and I met some very nice teachers. I asked one of them about what to work on next with my own game, being a 4/5 spot guy on my team as a junior, perhaps a 7 handicap.

 

His answer? Driver. He said I should learn to hit driver because a player (at the level we were playing at) who can hit their driver well has the opportunity (both hitting driver and using sound club selection judgement) to virtually eliminate double bogies from the card WHILE giving them self the most opportunities for birdies.

 

Sadly, I didn't listen very well.

 

Another note, this time about my dad. He has been a 6-9 hcp for the last 20 years. He is not longer than he used to be, club for club. He is not a better putter than he used to be. He is not a better chipper than he used to be. He is better out of the sand than he used to be. His iron play is the same, but shorter. And yet he is still the same handicap. How is that possible? He learned to hit driver. 20 years ago, he teed off every non-par 3 with a 4 iron. 190 carry, roll to 200 or so. Very accurate, but he had maxed out his scoring potential. He never shot under par.

 

A few years ago, I got him a hot faced, low spinning 3 wood and we called it his driver. He learned to hit that well, 220 carry, roll to 230ish, and he started to play better. He had his lowest cap of his life and shot under par multiple times. He has since taught himself a driver swing/shot and he is now able to maintain his cap, even as the rest of his game slowly deteriorates a bit (he's 67 fwiw).

 

The last time he played, he hit every fairway for the first time in his life. 14/14. He didn't post his best score ever, or anything of the sort. But if a straight-hitting (and relatively short hitting) guy with a consistent swing who has played 2+ times a week for the last 40 years and hit nothing but 4i's for 20+ of those years just had his first 14/14 round, it doesn't look good for the rest of us to do that very often. You are going to miss fairways. Miss them in the right spots with the right club selection.

I have more thoughts, but my fingers just cramped up and there' an Open to watch!

a 7 hdcp and played # 5 on the HS team? must have been some HS team

 

There are some phenomenal junior golfers right now. The guy who teaches me, his sons high school team average is about an 8, and one player is a +1. It's not that out of the ordinary this day in age. Not every high school is like that, but there are more than you think.