Rahm f'd up and should've been penalized

[nix]

Just wait until a player has to remove his ball from a sand trap and puts it back 3 grains of sand to the left! THE HORROR!

[Vindog]

I always felt, and still feel, that the European Tour was the better run of the Major tours.

[larrybud]

After taking multiple screenshots of the frames, I carefully scaled them so the "zoom" was equal.

 

The top ball is where the ball started, the bottom is where it ended after his remark.

[bscinstnct]

After taking multiple screenshots of the frames, I carefully scaled them so the "zoom" was equal.

 

The top ball is where the ball started, the bottom is where it ended after his remark.

 

 

Nice work. That's exactly what I thought the difference would be.

 

100% penalty.

 

Don't know what these guys were thinking.

[joew2328]

Obviously not in he same place. Tough to get into the exact location after moving your mark, but he should have been able to at least put the ball down in the same location in relation to his marker. Dumb.

[joew2328]

I think we should go back to just leaving the ball where it lies completely untouched. Maybe bring back the stymie while we are at it. All of this going crazy about millimeters is a direct result of using an imprecise device (a coin) to determine the position of the ball when in reality it makes no difference at all to the outcome.

 

Got a solution...cresent moon shaped coin, standard for all players. Mark the golfball inside the concave side.

 

Why is this not happening?!

[stickner]

After taking multiple screenshots of the frames, I carefully scaled them so the "zoom" was equal.

 

The top ball is where the ball started, the bottom is where it ended after his remark.

 

There is absolutely zero chance of you matching up screen shots from a camera that not only zoomed in and out, but also panned left, right, up and down. The only way you can overlay with certainty is if the camera was fixed.

[NoTalentLefty]

With today's tech we should be able to overcome this.

 

1) take a cigar or cigarette and burn a mark behind the offending ball.

 

Or

 

2) use a invisible marker to mark the ball and a laser to find it. Make sure the marker will disappear after a rain or a good watering.

[stickner]

After taking multiple screenshots of the frames, I carefully scaled them so the "zoom" was equal.

 

The top ball is where the ball started, the bottom is where it ended after his remark.

 

The left pic shows him originally moving his mark. The right pic shows him moving his mark back.

 

Notice in the left picture the putter face is pointed more towards the hole. The right pic shows the putter angled more away from the hole.

 

This shows that when he re-marked it, his putter was at an angle that all things being equal would have resulted in the ball being placed further away from the hole.

 

Of course this is with a non-fixed camera, so......

[larrybud]

After taking multiple screenshots of the frames, I carefully scaled them so the "zoom" was equal.

 

The top ball is where the ball started, the bottom is where it ended after his remark.

 

There is absolutely zero chance of you matching up screen shots from a camera that not only zoomed in and out, but also could have panned left or right or up or down. The only way you can overlay with certainty is if the camera was fixed.

 

The camera is certainly in a fixed position, so the panning is irrelevant. In other words, the angle is exactly the same in both.

 

I fixed the zooming by taking several reference frames to get it right, matching up to other known positions, like the other ball marks.

[larrybud]

There is absolutely zero chance of you matching up screen shots from a camera that not only zoomed in and out, but also could have panned left or right or up or down. The only way you can overlay with certainty is if the camera was fixed.

 

That's why he's not a full ball width in front of where he started, because the angle which he placed his putter down on the remark is more "away" from the hole, but not enough to compensate for the entire width of the ball.

[larrybud]

By the way, even if he angled his putter correctly on the remark, he would still be "short" because he's going on a diagonal.

[bladehunter]

Lol. Now this is getting good ! Full on CSsI. Where is that red headed guy ? We need him to step on and give a pose with his sunglasses.

[stickner]

After taking multiple screenshots of the frames, I carefully scaled them so the "zoom" was equal.

 

The top ball is where the ball started, the bottom is where it ended after his remark.

 

There is absolutely zero chance of you matching up screen shots from a camera that not only zoomed in and out, but also could have panned left or right or up or down. The only way you can overlay with certainty is if the camera was fixed.

 

The camera is certainly in a fixed position, so the panning is irrelevant. In other words, the angle is exactly the same in both.

 

I fixed the zooming by taking several reference frames to get it right, matching up to other known positions, like the other ball marks.

 

The panning is very relevant. It will change perspective. Watch the complete video and you will see that the camera not only zoomed in and out, but did pan left, right, up and down to follow the action.

 

Unless the camera operator came back to the same exact position, the perspective is different.

 

As a little test, close one eye and look at the arm of a chair and compare that to a spot on the wall. Then move twist your head ever so slightly left, right, up or down. You will see the spot on the wall now has a different relation to the arm of the chair.

 

We can perform the same test with a camera. We can set up a camera on a fixed tripod and just rotate it slightly left or right or move it up or down. Then zoom in or out a smidge. I could point this camera at a fixed ball on a green and the ball would appear to be in different positions even though it never moved.

[stickner]

There is absolutely zero chance of you matching up screen shots from a camera that not only zoomed in and out, but also could have panned left or right or up or down. The only way you can overlay with certainty is if the camera was fixed.

 

That's why he's not a full ball width in front of where he started, because the angle which he placed his putter down on the remark is more "away" from the hole, but not enough to compensate for the entire width of the ball.

 

I go back to the fact that I guarantee that anyone would not put their ball back in the exact same spot a large percentage of the time, even when they knew they were being observed and measured on how accurate they perform this task.

 

It is such an imprecise method to begin with.

[bscinstnct]

Lol. Now this is getting good ! Full on CSsI. Where is that red headed guy ? We need him to step on and give a pose with his sunglasses.

 

 

You marked your ball to the side.

 

Why did you replace it in front?

 

 

[Roadking2003]

Its a rule.

 

Sort of.

 

Depends.

 

Tell ya, though. If this was a Major and hes tied up/close.

 

No way he should get that call.

 

Rule broken, ball improperly marked, dont care if you didnt intend. Thats a joke.

 

Irish Open? Sure.

 

Open? No.

It was not an unfair advantage.

 

No penalty.

 

 

Why would "not an unfair advantage" matter?

[Roadking2003]

 

But the odds are that the ball almost never goes back on its exact point if the cameras and angles are good enough you could penalise anyone on any putt. I think he did his best to move it back to its original spot and should not be penalised there was a tiny difference but it was probably a centimeter or so? I don't think it's right to penalise someone for this especially after having to move thier marker, if he moved it forward an inch or 2 then fair enough but using your putter head in line with some object a decent distance away to determine a line when you stand to it at a slightly different angle as well is never going to produce a very accurate replacement.

 

True, but the idiots penalized Lexi four strokes.

[bscinstnct]

If Jon had replaced his ball to the side, this would never have happened.

 

[Roadking2003]

I'd say lexis effort to repalce was further from being correct than Rahm in a far easier situation to be accurate.

 

So who determines if the effort was good enough?

 

And BTW, IMHO the Lexi camera angles were terrible.

[Roadking2003]

This is exactly what I thought when I watched. He couldn't mark it exactly behind initially because the other marker was in the way...

 

Are you suggesting that he couldn't put his coin on top of another coin? why?

[Roadking2003]

If he did that and placed it in the correct spot it would be within the rules.

 

True. The method does not matter. The results matter.

 

I once played with a guy and asked him to move his mark out of my line. He did so using the entire length of his putter (36"). I cautioned him that he still had to put the ball back in it's original spot (which there was zero chance he could do). He just looked at me like I was from Mars.

[Shilgy]

But the odds are that the ball almost never goes back on its exact point if the cameras and angles are good enough you could penalise anyone on any putt. I think he did his best to move it back to its original spot and should not be penalised there was a tiny difference but it was probably a centimeter or so? I don't think it's right to penalise someone for this especially after having to move thier marker, if he moved it forward an inch or 2 then fair enough but using your putter head in line with some object a decent distance away to determine a line when you stand to it at a slightly different angle as well is never going to produce a very accurate replacement.

 

True, but the idiots penalized Lexi four strokes.

Yeah but these were different idiots. :)

[buckeyefl]

There is absolutely zero chance of you matching up screen shots from a camera that not only zoomed in and out, but also could have panned left or right or up or down. The only way you can overlay with certainty is if the camera was fixed.

 

That's why he's not a full ball width in front of where he started, because the angle which he placed his putter down on the remark is more "away" from the hole, but not enough to compensate for the entire width of the ball.

 

I go back to the fact that I guarantee that anyone would not put their ball back in the exact same spot a large percentage of the time, even when they knew they were being observed and measured on how accurate they perform this task.

 

It is such an imprecise method to begin with.

Its not about being exact to the thousandth of an inch but it is about at least attempting. He didnt, he voiced his opinion that it was silly amd he told the official what he thought he needed to in order to not get a penalty. He was lazy with the rule which is just fine and has worked for decades and because of his laziness or forgetfulness (Equally a penalty) he was in the wrong.

[buckeyefl]

If Jon had replaced his ball to the side, this would never have happened.

 

 

Its that simple and anyone who plays in tournaments at any level knows how to replace a ball to ever avoid the suspicion of doing it incorrectly.

[stu_man]

After taking multiple screenshots of the frames, I carefully scaled them so the "zoom" was equal.

 

The top ball is where the ball started, the bottom is where it ended after his remark.

 

There is absolutely zero chance of you matching up screen shots from a camera that not only zoomed in and out, but also could have panned left or right or up or down. The only way you can overlay with certainty is if the camera was fixed.

 

The camera is certainly in a fixed position, so the panning is irrelevant. In other words, the angle is exactly the same in both.

 

I fixed the zooming by taking several reference frames to get it right, matching up to other known positions, like the other ball marks.

 

The panning is very relevant. It will change perspective. Watch the complete video and you will see that the camera not only zoomed in and out, but did pan left, right, up and down to follow the action.

 

Unless the camera operator came back to the same exact position, the perspective is different.

 

As a little test, close one eye and look at the arm of a chair and compare that to a spot on the wall. Then move twist your head ever so slightly left, right, up or down. You will see the spot on the wall now has a different relation to the arm of the chair.

 

We can perform the same test with a camera. We can set up a camera on a fixed tripod and just rotate it slightly left or right or move it up or down. Then zoom in or out a smidge. I could point this camera at a fixed ball on a green and the ball would appear to be in different positions even though it never moved.

 

[Exactice808]

Just for the hell of it cause Im bored....

 

The "Camera" looks like he did not replace it in the same spot, Same with Lexi. Just based on the generic video evidence.

 

 

With that.... goes back to a Televised situation, what if this was a no name player in last place... would they have gotten the same attention (TV, Video) evidence as the Leader of the tournament?

 

 

Why I bring it up is.... there is a hypocrisy of the rules and the down right inconsistency of the ruling bodies. Fact of the matter, Mr.Rahm already chalked it up as a penalty, and should have been assessed it... and be done with it. Would it have changed the outcome? Who knows.... it might have.... But the fact of the matter is why is this situation different from Lexi, TW, DJ? Its not.... the fact of the matter was it was not in the same deemed spot and questionable. Yet Mr. Rahm got a pass?

 

 

How does that bode well for players like DJ or even Lexi, or comparison to PGA, Euro tour, or LPGA etc....does that mean, each body and rules official can ultimately make their own decisions?

 

 

Its tough as exposure as I hate bring up TW...is true. TV exposure in comparison to 1 player or not and the ability for an outside entity to call in the infraction is ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

anyways.... the whole point of my stupid rant is. If a rule seemed to be violated then assess them and be done with it. Be it Televised or not... be it video evidence or not. The game was based on an honor system, we as humans make mistakes....and even if they did something malicious.... with intent... it will surface its self....

 

I mean, what if, that penalty WAS in fact a game changer, what if he was 1 stroke in the lead and this penalty made him second place.........

 

There has to be some consistency....be it, Web.com, PGA, LPGA, etc.......this just added more useless fuel to the fire......

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

Where the hell was the guy that lives in his mom's basement at? He always seems to catch all the cheaters on tour. Had he called it in like the other incident. He would have been penalized. DQ for turning in a wrong scorecard.

[new2g0lf]

If I was Lexi I'd be pretty upset with the application of the rule on her and the lack of it on Rahm. The cameras were inaccurate (or non-conclusive for lawyers) for both but in the Lexi thread a lot of people were referring to them as being proof she cheated.

[hurricanes7]

how much did the ball move from where it should have been played from? an inch?