Rahm f'd up and should've been penalized

[jonsnow]

I watched with interest some of the comments on other Social media sites where The Golf Channel, Golfweek, Golf.com etc etc post. Making issues about why was he allowed to get away with this when Lexi wasn't. People calling him a cheat, a spoilt brat, he moved it because of a spike mark, sure why not make up a reason. Brandel Chamblee ( font of all knowledge, if it can generate controversy) even said he moved it by up to 4 inches. The rule changed to allow for reasonable adjustment. Andy McPhee said that they had reviewed the incident and he placed his mark at about 10 o'clock and replaced it at about 11 o'clock. They were happy with his and Im's explanation that he believed he had placed it in the same spot. They allowed for reasonable adjustment that he did not intentionally place it in a different position, the position change was marginal and no advantage was gained. Rahm to his credit was accepting of any penalty but the rules officials did not impose one. I think there is a certain amount of European player hatred coming into play here. As I have said before he had a reason to mark to the side and not impede Im's putt, Lexi didn't have a reason!

 

I thought the rule changes go into effect in 2019?

 

The R & A and USGA agreed a rule change following the Lexi Thompson incident.

• New Decision on the Rules of Golf will limit use of video evidence
  
• Decision 34-3/10 will implement two standards for Rules committees to limit use of video
  
• New Decision takes effect immediately
  

The R&A and the USGA have issued a new Decision on the Rules of Golf to limit the use of video evidence in the game which takes effect immediately.

The two organisations have also established a working group of LPGA, PGA Tour, European Tour, Ladies European Tour and PGA of America representatives to immediately begin a comprehensive review of broader video issues that arise in televised competitions, including viewer call-ins.

Decision 34-3/10

New Decision 34-3/10 implements two standards for Rules committees to limit the use of video: 1) when video reveals evidence that could not reasonably be seen with the “naked eye” and 2) when players use their reasonable judgment to determine a specific location when applying the Rules. The full language of the Decision can be found here.

The first standard states “the use of video technology can make it possible to identify things that could not be seen with the naked eye.” An example includes a player who unknowingly touches a few grains of sand in taking a backswing with a club in a bunker when making a stroke.

If the committee concludes that such facts could not reasonably have been seen with the naked eye and the player was not otherwise aware of the potential breach, the player will be deemed not to have breached the Rules, even when video technology shows otherwise. This extends the provision from ball at rest moved cases, which was introduced in 2014 (Decision 18/4).

The second standard applies when a player determines a spot, point, position, line, area, distance or other location in applying the Rules, and recognises that a player should not be held to the degree of precision that can sometimes be provided by video technology. Examples include determining the nearest point of relief, or replacing a lifted ball.

So long as the player does what can reasonably be expected under the circumstances to make an accurate determination, the player’s reasonable judgment will be accepted, even if later shown to be wrong by the use of video evidence.

Rules Modernisation

Both of these standards have been extensively discussed as part of the Rules modernisation initiative and The R&A and the USGA have decided to enact this Decision immediately because of the many difficult issues arising from video review in televised golf.

The standards in the Decision do not change any of the current requirements in the Rules, as the player must still act with care, report all known breaches of the Rules and try to do what is reasonably expected in making an accurate determination when applying the Rules.

Video-related topics that require a deeper evaluation by the working group include the use of information from sources other than participants such as phone calls, email or social media and the application of penalties after a score card has been returned.

Martin Slumbers, Chief Executive of The R&A, said, “We have been considering the impact of video review on the game and feel it is important to introduce a Decision to give greater clarity in this area. Golf has always been a game of integrity and we want to ensure that the emphasis remains as much as possible on the reasonable judgment of the player rather than on what video technology can show.”

USGA Executive Director/CEO Mike Davis said, “This important first step provides officials with tools that can have a direct and positive impact on the game. We recognise there is more work to be done. Advancements in video technology are enhancing the viewing experience for fans but can also significantly affect the competition. We need to balance those advances with what is fair for all players when applying the Rules.”

The R&A and the USGA will consider additional modifications recommended by the working group for implementation in advance of 1 January 2019, when the new code resulting from the collaborative work to modernise golf’s Rules takes effect.

 

 

Thanks, I missed that!

[jgonz69]

"Officer I know I was doing 90 in a 55 zone, but it was an honest mistake. "

Officer, " ok no problem, have a nice day."

 

[Shilgy]

I think we should go back to just leaving the ball where it lies completely untouched. Maybe bring back the stymie while we are at it. All of this going crazy about millimeters is a direct result of using an imprecise device (a coin) to determine the position of the ball when in reality it makes no difference at all to the outcome.

Does not work with stroke play-only match play. You want someone out of contention to stymie their fellow competitor to hand their buddy a win?

[widow-maker]

the question is, was it an honest mistake by him

Obviously it was an honest mistake. He marked it to the side because the other players coin was already right behind his ball. He just forgot when he replaced it that he had done it and marked in the normal manner. He really gained no advantage because the putt was basically in gimme range. According to the old rules, it was an obvious penalty. According to the new rules, they're trying not to penalize players for mistakes of that nature. I don't have a problem with it. They certainly handled it better than they did with Lexi.

[Sun Devil]

You mark your ball, then need to move your mark, lining up your putter to some inanimate object yards away, then move the marker back, then replace the ball. I would be astonished if this can be done with any degree of absolute certainty as to the original ball position. Rahm did the best he could do, without resorting to some exotic GPS spotting.

 

Exactly. Anyone making more of this is the reason golf gets a bad name for idiotic rules. We're talking millimeters of placement. Lexi's was obvious. This .... not so.

[Wooderson]

i robbed that bank, but it wasn't on purpose.

 

May be the worst analogy in the history of the internet. Good job.

[Sean2]

I think the powers that be were worried about another "Lexi" fall out.

[Roadking2003]

Seems pretty obvious.

 

http://ftw.usatoday....les-controversy

 

What's obvious is the double standard. The Golf Rulers ruled that Rahm did not intend to mark his ball improperly. But the Golf Rulers ruled that Lexi did and stole her major victory.

 

Clearly a double standard.

[Roadking2003]

You mark your ball, then need to move your mark, lining up your putter to some inanimate object yards away, then move the marker back, then replace the ball. I would be astonished if this can be done with any degree of absolute certainty as to the original ball position. Rahm did the best he could do, without resorting to some exotic GPS spotting.

 

Exactly. Anyone making more of this is the reason golf gets a bad name for idiotic rules. We're talking millimeters of placement. Lexi's was obvious. This .... not so.

 

You have it backwards, but that's OK. Neither should be a penalty.

[St Jimmy]

IMO:

I think the ball was placed very close to the original spot. If you notice when he first marks the ball it's at a 9:00 position to the ball, then he puts his putter at 9:00 to move the mark. He then put his putter at 8:00 when remarking the ball. When he put the ball at 12:00 after it was very close to the original spot, just in an unconventional way.

[buckeyefl]

You mark your ball, then need to move your mark, lining up your putter to some inanimate object yards away, then move the marker back, then replace the ball. I would be astonished if this can be done with any degree of absolute certainty as to the original ball position. Rahm did the best he could do, without resorting to some exotic GPS spotting.

Not even remotely. He replaced the ball in a complete different location in relation to his mark. He screwed up and should have been held accountable and even more so after i just watched his post round interview and blew it off as " it was only a one foot putt" which it wasnt and which is irrelevant. He said what he had to say to not get a penalty and the rules official made a terrible call. Cheating? No but not within the rules. Heck according to his logic why even bother moving it the one putter length?

[buckeyefl]

the question is, was it an honest mistake by him

But its irrelevant when it comes to a penalty. To answer the question, its impossible to say.

[MadGolfer76]

Outcome wasn't affected, but the governing bodies are going to get in trouble with stuff like this eventually. There is plenty of money on the line to think that at some point, some 2nd place finisher on the bubble is going to raise an integrity issue if the wrong call gets made.

[Shilgy]

You mark your ball, then need to move your mark, lining up your putter to some inanimate object yards away, then move the marker back, then replace the ball. I would be astonished if this can be done with any degree of absolute certainty as to the original ball position. Rahm did the best he could do, without resorting to some exotic GPS spotting.

Not even remotely. He replaced the ball in a complete different location in relation to his mark. He screwed up and should have been held accountable and even more so after i just watched his post round interview and blew it off as " it was only a one foot putt" which it wasnt and which is irrelevant. He said what he had to say to not get a penalty and the rules official made a terrible call. Cheating? No but not within the rules. Heck according to his logic why even bother moving it the one putter length?

You have one thing incorrect. He does not have to put the ball back the same way he moved it. He needs to get it back to the same place. If you watch it carefully the coin is actually moved back a hair from where it originally was. That much you can see. Hard to tell if the coin was also moved a bit further from the putter. Both moves would accommodate his replacement as to getting it correct. Albeit in an unconventional way.

[bscinstnct]

Its a rule.

 

Sort of.

 

Depends.

 

Tell ya, though. If this was a Major and hes tied up/close.

 

No way he should get that call.

 

Rule broken, ball improperly marked, dont care if you didnt intend. Thats a joke.

 

Irish Open? Sure.

 

Open? No.

[powerpushfade]

Its a rule.

 

Sort of.

 

Depends.

 

Tell ya, though. If this was a Major and hes tied up/close.

 

No way he should get that call.

 

Rule broken, ball improperly marked, dont care if you didnt intend. Thats a joke.

 

Irish Open? Sure.

 

Open? No.

It was not an unfair advantage.

 

No penalty.

 

Doesn't matter the tournament.

 

Irish Open course is way better than any course on the British Rota.

 

No penalty, no way, never.

[bscinstnct]

Its a rule.

 

Sort of.

 

Depends.

 

Tell ya, though. If this was a Major and hes tied up/close.

 

No way he should get that call.

 

Rule broken, ball improperly marked, dont care if you didnt intend. Thats a joke.

 

Irish Open? Sure.

 

Open? No.

It was not an unfair advantage.

 

No penalty.

 

Doesn't matter the tournament.

 

Irish Open course is way better than any course on the British Rota.

 

No penalty, no way, never.

 

So, a ball mark is just a loose guideline of where you can replace your ball?

 

What is an "unfair advantage"?

 

Is it different than a "fair advantage"?

 

Hey, you marked your ball to the side, then you replaced in front.

 

Dont worry, brah. Thats a "fair advantage" ; )

 

 

[Shilgy]

Its a rule.

 

Sort of.

 

Depends.

 

Tell ya, though. If this was a Major and hes tied up/close.

 

No way he should get that call.

 

Rule broken, ball improperly marked, dont care if you didnt intend. Thats a joke.

 

Irish Open? Sure.

 

Open? No.

It was not an unfair advantage.

 

No penalty.

 

Doesn't matter the tournament.

 

Irish Open course is way better than any course on the British Rota.

 

No penalty, no way, never.

 

So, a ball mark is just a loose guideline of where you can replace your ball?

 

What is an "unfair advantage"?

 

Is it different than a "fair advantage"?

 

Hey, you marked your ball to the side, then you replaced in front.

 

Dont worry, brah. Thats a "fair advantage" ; )

:) Old pro of mine always was the guy that organized the side bets between the local pros playing a game. As another pro once told me "Tom's always trying to make sure he has a fair advantage".

[NoFancyUsername.]

Seems pretty obvious.

 

http://ftw.usatoday....les-controversy

 

 

 

 

 

Winners are grinners, losers can please themselves.

[powerpushfade]

Its a rule.

 

Sort of.

 

Depends.

 

Tell ya, though. If this was a Major and hes tied up/close.

 

No way he should get that call.

 

Rule broken, ball improperly marked, dont care if you didnt intend. Thats a joke.

 

Irish Open? Sure.

 

Open? No.

It was not an unfair advantage.

 

No penalty.

 

Doesn't matter the tournament.

 

Irish Open course is way better than any course on the British Rota.

 

No penalty, no way, never.

 

So, a ball mark is just a loose guideline of where you can replace your ball?

 

What is an "unfair advantage"?

 

Is it different than a "fair advantage"?

 

Hey, you marked your ball to the side, then you replaced in front.

 

Dont worry, brah. Thats a "fair advantage" ; )

So...brah... he did not gain any advantage. Fair or unfair...did he somehow gain an advantage on the field?...huh, did he?...brah

 

[TheYipS]

Its a rule.

 

Sort of.

 

Depends.

 

Tell ya, though. If this was a Major and hes tied up/close.

 

No way he should get that call.

 

Rule broken, ball improperly marked, dont care if you didnt intend. Thats a joke.

 

Irish Open? Sure.

 

Open? No.

 

But the odds are that the ball almost never goes back on its exact point if the cameras and angles are good enough you could penalise anyone on any putt. I think he did his best to move it back to its original spot and should not be penalised there was a tiny difference but it was probably a centimeter or so? I don't think it's right to penalise someone for this especially after having to move thier marker, if he moved it forward an inch or 2 then fair enough but using your putter head in line with some object a decent distance away to determine a line when you stand to it at a slightly different angle as well is never going to produce a very accurate replacement.

[TheYipS]

any reason to think he cheated on purpose

REALLY!!! Cheating! Give me a fuc***in break. Did he gain an unfair advantage?? No! Case closed. It was a 12" putt. Make % is probably like 99.9999999999% for tour pros.

 

Tell that to the idiots who gave Lexi a four stroke penalty and stole her major victory.

Lexi didn't have to move her marker and missed the spot by a larger margin to be fair.

[powerpushfade]

any reason to think he cheated on purpose

REALLY!!! Cheating! Give me a fuc***in break. Did he gain an unfair advantage?? No! Case closed. It was a 12" putt. Make % is probably like 99.9999999999% for tour pros.

 

Tell that to the idiots who gave Lexi a four stroke penalty and stole her major victory.

Lexi didn't have to move her marker and missed the spot by a larger margin to be fair.

I don't believe she should have been penalized either.

[TheYipS]

I'd say lexis effort to repalce was further from being correct than Rahm in a far easier situation to be accurate.

[Wooderson]

Time for GPS marking or measuring by degrees and distance.

[bscinstnct]

Its a rule.

 

Sort of.

 

Depends.

 

Tell ya, though. If this was a Major and hes tied up/close.

 

No way he should get that call.

 

Rule broken, ball improperly marked, dont care if you didnt intend. Thats a joke.

 

Irish Open? Sure.

 

Open? No.

 

But the odds are that the ball almost never goes back on its exact point if the cameras and angles are good enough you could penalise anyone on any putt. I think he did his best to move it back to its original spot and should not be penalised there was a tiny difference but it was probably a centimeter or so? I don't think it's right to penalise someone for this especially after having to move thier marker, if he moved it forward an inch or 2 then fair enough but using your putter head in line with some object a decent distance away to determine a line when you stand to it at a slightly different angle as well is never going to produce a very accurate replacement.

 

This is all true. Which is why we use a mark.

 

He marked his ball to the side. Then replaced it in front.

 

That should be a penalty 100% of the time.

[Vindog]

Seems pretty obvious.

 

http://ftw.usatoday....les-controversy

 

What's obvious is the double standard. The Golf Rulers ruled that Rahm did not intend to mark his ball improperly. But the Golf Rulers ruled that Lexi did and stole her major victory.

 

Clearly a double standard.

 

No.

[TheYipS]

Its a rule.

 

Sort of.

 

Depends.

 

Tell ya, though. If this was a Major and hes tied up/close.

 

No way he should get that call.

 

Rule broken, ball improperly marked, dont care if you didnt intend. Thats a joke.

 

Irish Open? Sure.

 

Open? No.

 

But the odds are that the ball almost never goes back on its exact point if the cameras and angles are good enough you could penalise anyone on any putt. I think he did his best to move it back to its original spot and should not be penalised there was a tiny difference but it was probably a centimeter or so? I don't think it's right to penalise someone for this especially after having to move thier marker, if he moved it forward an inch or 2 then fair enough but using your putter head in line with some object a decent distance away to determine a line when you stand to it at a slightly different angle as well is never going to produce a very accurate replacement.

 

This is all true. Which is why we use a mark.

 

He marked his ball to the side. Then replaced it in front.

 

That should be a penalty 100% of the time.

 

100% of the time in a major but not in the Irish Open?

It's such a grey area I feel Rahm made a tiny mistake and there were circumstances making it more difficult to be precise. But to someone else it's error=penalty every time and that's a reasonable way to look at it. Maybe a better way of marking needs to be used if it's necessary to be so precise as to avoid scrutiny from rules officials watching in 4k HD.

[Jasonic]

i understand what u are saying as far as the rules go, but i want to know if he did it on purpose

 

Give him a call. He's the only one who would know

[bscinstnct]

Its a rule.

 

Sort of.

 

Depends.

 

Tell ya, though. If this was a Major and hes tied up/close.

 

No way he should get that call.

 

Rule broken, ball improperly marked, dont care if you didnt intend. Thats a joke.

 

Irish Open? Sure.

 

Open? No.

 

But the odds are that the ball almost never goes back on its exact point if the cameras and angles are good enough you could penalise anyone on any putt. I think he did his best to move it back to its original spot and should not be penalised there was a tiny difference but it was probably a centimeter or so? I don't think it's right to penalise someone for this especially after having to move thier marker, if he moved it forward an inch or 2 then fair enough but using your putter head in line with some object a decent distance away to determine a line when you stand to it at a slightly different angle as well is never going to produce a very accurate replacement.

 

This is all true. Which is why we use a mark.

 

He marked his ball to the side. Then replaced it in front.

 

That should be a penalty 100% of the time.

 

100% of the time in a major but not in the Irish Open?

It's such a grey area I feel Rahm made a tiny mistake and there were circumstances making it more difficult to be precise. But to someone else it's error=penalty every time and that's a reasonable way to look at it. Maybe a better way of marking needs to be used if it's necessary to be so precise as to avoid scrutiny from rules officials watching in 4k HD.

 

Well, I do agree that that having to move his marker confused him and that there was no intent.

 

But, you cant *mark to the side and replace in front*

 

That would lead to complete anarchy ; )