Brands You Won't Play

[pierso2]

The Emperor will chime in and offer his imperial opinion on various brands, some odious.

 

I have been an equipment hoarder and I have seen them all. Let me first say that every company has equipment that is acclaimed or shunned. To me, cosmetics are vital. I believe that in addition to performance, the clubs must look good from every angle. I will share my opinions company by company.

 

Adams

When I first saw the Tight Lies fairway woods in 1995, I thought that the idea of inverting the face so that the top line was narrower than the wider leading edge was innovative, but gradually they transitioned back to traditional designs. Inverted face simply wasn't revolutionary. Their Idea irons are very good, and their drivers are OK, though one of my most reliable drivers is the Redline, which I must add has a square face.

 

Bridgestone

Very good equipment. Maybe Japanese influence?

 

Callaway

Certainly one of the behemoths of the 1990's, their approach to design was initially performance first, cosmetics second. Tradition was thrown out the door and engineering came in first, and the company's first concept of innovation was their S2H2 hosels--or lack of hosels, so to say. The premise was to redistribute weight from the hosel to the face. Quirky, but they hit paydirt thanks mainly to Rich Parente a Dick Delacruz for taking the S2H2 farther by enlarging the head, hence Big Bertha driver. Chi Chi Rodriguez, I recall, first showed the driver to the world at a geezer tour event, and he was passing everyone with it, and everyone had to have one. Woods got bigger and bigger, and their release of the Big Bertha Irons back in 1995 was truly revolutionary. However, the top lines of those clubs were absolutely disgusting to look at, coupled with their severe offset, but the company did not care: performance first, cosmetics last. When Dick Helmstetter came on board and fired Parente and Delacruz, he merely continued and built on innovation and came up with some good designs, most notably the Steelhead Plus 3 wood, which is my favorite today. However, gradually over time, after Helmstetter retired, they shifted from radical equipment to more traditional. You see clubs today that have thinner top lines, less offset, and they even did away with that stupid S2H2 hosel. If they dropped S2H2, the whole concept was hype in the first place? However, kudos to them for getting club designers excited and creative. Will I play Callaway? With the exception of some of their Odyssey putters, not really, because these were the culprits who caused everyone to jack up the lengths and lofts, and their equipment today is still heavily jacked up.

 

Cleveland

Certainly one of the most darling companies of the 1980's with their superb persimmon woods and traditional designs in their Tour Action series. However, Roger Cleveland must have either been desperate or high on drugs when he designed the VAS irons. Even though those "garden tools" won our national Open in 1995, there is no doubt that cosmetics are an important consideration, as sales of VAS irons gradually faded, and soon after Roger sold his company to Rossignol and he started working for Callaway, which he is still doing a great job designing superb wedges. Today, Cleveland is meh, with equipment that is somewhat back to traditional.

 

Cobra

I can't do it, dude. These guys took the same approach as Callaway during the '90's, and they were the idiots who came out with oversize irons. Oversize woods and oversize irons for over-sized egos. Back in the mid-90's, the typical hacker bag was Callaway woods and King Cobra irons. I actually had an unsavory experience in an encounter with Tom Crow. He barked at me for just looking into his bag. He wanted to be left alone, so of course I obliged. This personal encounter is not so much the reason why I shun this equipment as much as their horrid designs of oversized irons and extreme offset (leading edges were behind the right edge of the shaft!). Do you see these features in their equipment today? Of course not! Why so? Because all that crap was hype, and they know it. Gary Biszantz, Tom Crow and Greg Norman made out with hundreds of millions when American Brands (now Fortune Brands) bought them out in the mid-to-late 90's, and they laughed all the way to the bank. Cobra faded away into the sunset after those bandits took the money and ran, but now they are a decent company at best. Will I play their equipment? No way, because their equipment is the most jacked in the industry--don't they have a pitching wedge at 43 degrees? Their game-improvement irons are still offset, but their player's clubs are very good, I must admit.

 

Miura, And Other Japanese Companies

They make great clubs, no doubt, and they know how to make a club. However, they have high price points for their equipment over there, and it is hard to justify paying over a thousand bucks for a used set. They even came out with an iron (Miura Genesis) to compete with PXG, as long as idiots are willing to pay $300 per club.

 

Mizuno

Once one of the darling companies of the 1990's, they are still one of the top companies for irons. How can anyone here not like a good Mizuno forging? Their woods are meh, but they are always known for superb irons.

 

Nike

Phil Mickelson was absolutely right when he called Nike "inferior equipment," and they came out with some God-forsaken abominations. Remember the Sumo² driver, especially the first generation? That horrid driver sounded like a trash can lid when you hit the ball with it. The worst sound ever for a driver, absolutely the worst of all. I would rather hit an old Top Flite driver with a Muscle shaft than that POS. With the remote exception of possibly the Victory Red forged irons, nothing else was good. This company is the lowest on my list, and I am glad they are out of business. Case closed.

 

Ping

Their offset was severe (leading edge in line to the right edge of the shaft), but not as severe as King Cobra. These guys were the innovators of game-improvement irons, and they set the first golf wave in the late 80's that took away most of the tennis players, myself included, as they switched from tennis to golf. After they released their Eye2 irons, everyone made knockoffs and that was how I got started. Hey, these clubs are easy to hit! I must give them credit for their woods because for a long time they refused to shut their faces on their woods up until about the K15 driver, when I started losing respect for them. Their irons were disgusting not so much for their designs, but for their offset. However, my attitude changed when they first released their i3 Blade irons. Today their irons are still offset, but not as bad as their designs from the late-80's thru 90's. Their putters are good, and my favorite putter is a simple Anser 3, which I have sunk many putts from 10' to 15' or so. They set the benchmark with putter design with their Anser putter, and I give them a word of respect for that.

 

PXG

Overpriced! Very much hype with these clubs, and they are for people who earnestly believe that the arrow makes a difference. I would not play these clubs because, quite honestly, I am not willing to pay $300 per club for zero difference in performance. The only thing I can add here is that I don't care about the person Bob Parons is alleged to be, but I have seen him play golf and swing the club. He is not a good golfer, to put it kindly.

 

Titleist

I confess that I am a Titleist guy. I highly praise these guys for not going crazy and releasing radical and stupid designs. I gave them a lot of credit for their woods for traditional shapes and zero face angles. Furthermore, I like their irons for their thin top lines and little-to-no offset. Most of all, I give them credit for designing clubs with the thought of traditional design first before engineering. They did design a few woods I do not like, but their irons are most of the time spot-on with what I am looking for. They brand themselves as "serious clubs for serious golfers," which I agree. Now on the issue of their overpriced putters, I agree with everyone here that Scotty is deliberately gouging his fans, and he is often called "Mr. Xerox" for copying designs, given that some of his original designs (e.g., Futura, Detour) are disgusting abominations that faded in the annuls of Titleist's dark past. Despite that, I give Titleist top marks for sticking with tradition and being the total antithesis to Callaway of old.

 

Srixon

A relatively new company, but their irons I like for their absence of offset. I have not much more to say.

 

TaylorMade

I first fell in love with their woods since I started playing golf in 1990, and I still have their Tour Preferred metalwoods today. They have always been the leader in drivers because, quite simply, they know how to make a driver. This is not to say that all their drivers are the best, because I am a stickler when it comes to face angles; I want a perfectly square face at address or if anything, maybe one degree open. However, they do have their TP series to accomodate face-angle snobs like me, but generally they try their best to help average golfers improve off the tee, even it it means shutting the face. Up until recently, they have never been known for their irons. I happen to have a set of ICW5's that I actually do like to play, but a lot of their irons were not so popular. Today, they have made great strides and their irons are now good. RAC Coin Forged, Tour Preferred, RSI ii are all fabulous designs.

 

Wilson

Once one of the premier companies for a long time, they simply lost out to overwhelming competition. Some of their shameful offerings (e.g., INVEX, Deep Red, Fat Shaft irons, etc.) are evident of desperation rather than innovation. Even their Staff line is not as good as from glory days of old. They may have a few decent woods, and the only thing saving them are their remakes of the FG musclebacks. Putters suck and Joe Phillips isn't around anymore to design their wedges. They are still popular in Europe, though I wonder why.

 

Honorable Mention: Axis1

Absolutely disgusting putters. How can you not throw up when you look down at their Eagle putter? These putters are too loud, and Luis Pedraza even created a softer version in his Tour-S putter, which most Tour Players would still not use.

remind me to never ask you what time it is.

 

I'll tell you what time it isn't!

 

Emp- Bridgestone IS Japanese... and not to be rude but at a casual glance, what brands do you like? Looks like you really picked apart every major brand.

[wobgon]

PXG. It's nothing truly special that pretty much every OEM has done at one time or another. Plus, the average joe can't even sniff them without harvesting organs. We can fit anything else for a fraction of the price.

 

Are you against Ferrari, Rolex, Louis Vuitton, .......or hundreds of other brands that the average Joe can't afford. Guess what, PXG is not making clubs for you. And that is absolutely okay because they are flying off the shelves at custom fitters which validates they have found a market niche and are serving it. This may not be the case next year as niche products must continue to evolve. But for now.........

OK, so in a thread about what clubs we do not like, it is not OK to not like PXG, because you are offended by it.....

[pierso2]

haha great topic, im not super prejudicial against any brands in entirety, but certain brands i wont play certain clubs from on principle

 

TM putters or wedges - just not classy enough for me

Newer Ping putters - they perform, but jeez the feel is like cheap plastic

Cleveland drivers - just look weird to me

Titleist irons - too cliche for me, they look fantastic and obviously perform, but im a non-conformist

Wilson drivers - the whole DvD thing is a ball of lolz

TEE drivers/irons/wedges - when your FWs are that good, it means everything else must suck (at least in my weird opinion)

Cobra hybrids - yeah i know Leo DaVinci designed them, but they look weirdly buldgy to me

Adams drivers - worst sound known man

Mizuno - lmao jk mizzy is infallible

 

I totally forgot about TM putters and wedges! There is something about them that just doesn't sit right with me. Not sure if it's a class thing but they just feel very forgotten. Sure the Spider is like the new anser but the only Taylormade putter I enjoyed was the Tour Preferred Forged Milled JDM. Everything else just felt "sports authority" to me. Wedges haven't wowed me but I did like the interchangeable face wedges when those came out. Probably because they were a relatively normal design sans the swapping of the face.

 

TEE- you're right. The fairway woods are amazing but everything else falls short. Not sure if it's because they sink all their money into their FW's or if it's because the FW's are golden that everything else just comes up short in comparison (think Pro-V1 sales compared to DT Solo. Kind of makes you wonder why they bother with other lines).

[earleyrc]

I was a Taylormade guy for years, but their product turnover and marketing annoys me. They literally have come out with like 4 new drivers since I started writing this post, each of them 10 yards longer than the last (if true, we should see some guys hitting it 800+ yards by now right??).

 

That, and I think their drivers and woods are hideous. The twist face intrigues me, so I might give it a demo when available, but I don't think I can stand looking at that crown..

[pierso2]

Cast iron sets. In my opinion, they're too bulky, have too much offset, have really thick top lines and huge soles, are often ugly, and have jacked lofts.

 

Not to start anything but the Ping S irons were cast along with one of the coolest sets of irons IMO Ping i3+ blades. They're a bit bulkier than forged counterparts but don't have huge soles or a lot of offset or jacked lofts. If you mean current irons that are cast, like Ping G series, Cobra, TMAG then yeah I get that completely but that's more of the market for cast iron buyers is it not?

[Mike73]

The Emperor will chime in and offer his imperial opinion on various brands, some odious.

 

I have been an equipment hoarder and I have seen them all. Let me first say that every company has equipment that is acclaimed or shunned. To me, cosmetics are vital. I believe that in addition to performance, the clubs must look good from every angle. I will share my opinions company by company.

 

Adams

When I first saw the Tight Lies fairway woods in 1995, I thought that the idea of inverting the face so that the top line was narrower than the wider leading edge was innovative, but gradually they transitioned back to traditional designs. Inverted face simply wasn't revolutionary. Their Idea irons are very good, and their drivers are OK, though one of my most reliable drivers is the Redline, which I must add has a square face.

 

Bridgestone

Very good equipment. Maybe Japanese influence?

 

Callaway

Certainly one of the behemoths of the 1990's, their approach to design was initially performance first, cosmetics second. Tradition was thrown out the door and engineering came in first, and the company's first concept of innovation was their S2H2 hosels--or lack of hosels, so to say. The premise was to redistribute weight from the hosel to the face. Quirky, but they hit paydirt thanks mainly to Rich Parente a Dick Delacruz for taking the S2H2 farther by enlarging the head, hence Big Bertha driver. Chi Chi Rodriguez, I recall, first showed the driver to the world at a geezer tour event, and he was passing everyone with it, and everyone had to have one. Woods got bigger and bigger, and their release of the Big Bertha Irons back in 1995 was truly revolutionary. However, the top lines of those clubs were absolutely disgusting to look at, coupled with their severe offset, but the company did not care: performance first, cosmetics last. When Dick Helmstetter came on board and fired Parente and Delacruz, he merely continued and built on innovation and came up with some good designs, most notably the Steelhead Plus 3 wood, which is my favorite today. However, gradually over time, after Helmstetter retired, they shifted from radical equipment to more traditional. You see clubs today that have thinner top lines, less offset, and they even did away with that stupid S2H2 hosel. If they dropped S2H2, the whole concept was hype in the first place? However, kudos to them for getting club designers excited and creative. Will I play Callaway? With the exception of some of their Odyssey putters, not really, because these were the culprits who caused everyone to jack up the lengths and lofts, and their equipment today is still heavily jacked up.

 

Cleveland

Certainly one of the most darling companies of the 1980's with their superb persimmon woods and traditional designs in their Tour Action series. However, Roger Cleveland must have either been desperate or high on drugs when he designed the VAS irons. Even though those "garden tools" won our national Open in 1995, there is no doubt that cosmetics are an important consideration, as sales of VAS irons gradually faded, and soon after Roger sold his company to Rossignol and he started working for Callaway, which he is still doing a great job designing superb wedges. Today, Cleveland is meh, with equipment that is somewhat back to traditional.

 

Cobra

I can't do it, dude. These guys took the same approach as Callaway during the '90's, and they were the idiots who came out with oversize irons. Oversize woods and oversize irons for over-sized egos. Back in the mid-90's, the typical hacker bag was Callaway woods and King Cobra irons. I actually had an unsavory experience in an encounter with Tom Crow. He barked at me for just looking into his bag. He wanted to be left alone, so of course I obliged. This personal encounter is not so much the reason why I shun this equipment as much as their horrid designs of oversized irons and extreme offset (leading edges were behind the right edge of the shaft!). Do you see these features in their equipment today? Of course not! Why so? Because all that crap was hype, and they know it. Gary Biszantz, Tom Crow and Greg Norman made out with hundreds of millions when American Brands (now Fortune Brands) bought them out in the mid-to-late 90's, and they laughed all the way to the bank. Cobra faded away into the sunset after those bandits took the money and ran, but now they are a decent company at best. Will I play their equipment? No way, because their equipment is the most jacked in the industry--don't they have a pitching wedge at 43 degrees? Their game-improvement irons are still offset, but their player's clubs are very good, I must admit.

 

Miura, And Other Japanese Companies

They make great clubs, no doubt, and they know how to make a club. However, they have high price points for their equipment over there, and it is hard to justify paying over a thousand bucks for a used set. They even came out with an iron (Miura Genesis) to compete with PXG, as long as idiots are willing to pay $300 per club.

 

Mizuno

Once one of the darling companies of the 1990's, they are still one of the top companies for irons. How can anyone here not like a good Mizuno forging? Their woods are meh, but they are always known for superb irons.

 

Nike

Phil Mickelson was absolutely right when he called Nike "inferior equipment," and they came out with some God-forsaken abominations. Remember the Sumo² driver, especially the first generation? That horrid driver sounded like a trash can lid when you hit the ball with it. The worst sound ever for a driver, absolutely the worst of all. I would rather hit an old Top Flite driver with a Muscle shaft than that POS. With the remote exception of possibly the Victory Red forged irons, nothing else was good. This company is the lowest on my list, and I am glad they are out of business. Case closed.

 

Ping

Their offset was severe (leading edge in line to the right edge of the shaft), but not as severe as King Cobra. These guys were the innovators of game-improvement irons, and they set the first golf wave in the late 80's that took away most of the tennis players, myself included, as they switched from tennis to golf. After they released their Eye2 irons, everyone made knockoffs and that was how I got started. Hey, these clubs are easy to hit! I must give them credit for their woods because for a long time they refused to shut their faces on their woods up until about the K15 driver, when I started losing respect for them. Their irons were disgusting not so much for their designs, but for their offset. However, my attitude changed when they first released their i3 Blade irons. Today their irons are still offset, but not as bad as their designs from the late-80's thru 90's. Their putters are good, and my favorite putter is a simple Anser 3, which I have sunk many putts from 10' to 15' or so. They set the benchmark with putter design with their Anser putter, and I give them a word of respect for that.

 

PXG

Overpriced! Very much hype with these clubs, and they are for people who earnestly believe that the arrow makes a difference. I would not play these clubs because, quite honestly, I am not willing to pay $300 per club for zero difference in performance. The only thing I can add here is that I don't care about the person Bob Parons is alleged to be, but I have seen him play golf and swing the club. He is not a good golfer, to put it kindly.

 

Titleist

I confess that I am a Titleist guy. I highly praise these guys for not going crazy and releasing radical and stupid designs. I gave them a lot of credit for their woods for traditional shapes and zero face angles. Furthermore, I like their irons for their thin top lines and little-to-no offset. Most of all, I give them credit for designing clubs with the thought of traditional design first before engineering. They did design a few woods I do not like, but their irons are most of the time spot-on with what I am looking for. They brand themselves as "serious clubs for serious golfers," which I agree. Now on the issue of their overpriced putters, I agree with everyone here that Scotty is deliberately gouging his fans, and he is often called "Mr. Xerox" for copying designs, given that some of his original designs (e.g., Futura, Detour) are disgusting abominations that faded in the annuls of Titleist's dark past. Despite that, I give Titleist top marks for sticking with tradition and being the total antithesis to Callaway of old.

 

Srixon

A relatively new company, but their irons I like for their absence of offset. I have not much more to say.

 

TaylorMade

I first fell in love with their woods since I started playing golf in 1990, and I still have their Tour Preferred metalwoods today. They have always been the leader in drivers because, quite simply, they know how to make a driver. This is not to say that all their drivers are the best, because I am a stickler when it comes to face angles; I want a perfectly square face at address or if anything, maybe one degree open. However, they do have their TP series to accomodate face-angle snobs like me, but generally they try their best to help average golfers improve off the tee, even it it means shutting the face. Up until recently, they have never been known for their irons. I happen to have a set of ICW5's that I actually do like to play, but a lot of their irons were not so popular. Today, they have made great strides and their irons are now good. RAC Coin Forged, Tour Preferred, RSI ii are all fabulous designs.

 

Wilson

Once one of the premier companies for a long time, they simply lost out to overwhelming competition. Some of their shameful offerings (e.g., INVEX, Deep Red, Fat Shaft irons, etc.) are evident of desperation rather than innovation. Even their Staff line is not as good as from glory days of old. They may have a few decent woods, and the only thing saving them are their remakes of the FG musclebacks. Putters suck and Joe Phillips isn't around anymore to design their wedges. They are still popular in Europe, though I wonder why.

 

Honorable Mention: Axis1

Absolutely disgusting putters. How can you not throw up when you look down at their Eagle putter? These putters are too loud, and Luis Pedraza even created a softer version in his Tour-S putter, which most Tour Players would still not use.

I hope this isn't the abbreviated version?

[SnapHooker_307]

Nike. My hearing has never recovered since the day I hit that square driver on the driving range without my shooting muffs. I used to love loud drivers until I hit that nightmare machine. I still don't know where the ball went because my fight or flight reactions kicked in so hard. I've been scared of the swoosh ever since.

 

Taylormade Irons/Wedges. I do love Taylormade woods and hybrids. I just have never hit anything at demo day from their irons or wedges that blew me away. Good sticks, just not feeling them.

 

Mizuno Woods - I actually demoed a couple that played pretty well. I cannot get over the blue color though. I wanted to put the irons here, but they are fantastic and the only thing keeping me from getting a set is not wanting to spend that much on a set of irons while I still live in a state with a longer snowboarding season than golf season.

 

Any wedge other than Titleist. I'm sure they are fine. But I also am lucky to play once every 2 weeks, so the Titleist wedges I have are predictable and allow me to at least have some sort of idea what they are going to do.

 

As you can see, most of my reasons have nothing to due with the actual quality or play of the clubs, more so appearance and feel. (other than Nike. to my ears since that day).

[10&8]

Taylormade. I have never got along well with their looks or performance. To each his own I guess. Add in the fact that their tour players are playing vastly different clubs than the retail version

[Silicon Valley Dale]

WIth the arrival of the Wilson Triton driver in yesterday's shipments I will have officially hit every club out there when I head to the sim in an hour. Like many, I bought it for the shaft but it's going to have an hour of alone time with me to give me a reason to keep it or swap out tip adapters. I have favorites amongst my clubs but as of right now I own the following lines, listed by category from favorite to least.

 

Drivers-TM, Ping, Nike, Adams, Dunlop, Callaway, Mutant. Notes-TM is far and away one for me. Nothing has come close to knocking my R15 out of the bag. I have an M1 and M2 as well and I like the R15 more. I don't have a newer Callaway or they'd be higher. I liked the Epic when I hit it, it's really good. It wasn't better for me than the M1 that's second so I didn't spring for it. The Dunlop Goliath was in my bag for 10 years before I got serious about golf again. You may laugh at it and I'd expect that but it's only about 15 yards behind the current tech and if I was ever told that I must hit a driver into the fairway or die, I'd pull it. The Mutant is a LD Driver and fun to play around with but I have to feel pretty froggy to put it in the bag. Once in a while in a scramble. The Wilson Triton will be worked out in a few so then I can add it in.

 

FW's-TM, Cobra, Nike, Callaway, Ping, Mizuno. Not a lot separates clubs here for me. I like the M2 HL3w for days when I need to carry it and land soft and the Cobra Strong 3 from 8 years ago when I'm going to need bullets that run. One or the other goes in the bag that day depending on course and condition. I could play any of these 3w's though and probably never seen more than a strokes difference in my score.

 

Irons-Nike, Titleist, Ping, Callaway. For now the Nike set is in the bag. I have two sets of slightly older Titleist that are right there waiting for them to screw up. A players cavity and a MB. I'm torn as to which I like better and I honestly might combo the two sets. I like the MB's in 7-PW and the players cavity in 4-6. I guess I'm admitting that I'm not good enough to hit MB long irons there. At any rate the Nike irons are king for now. Played Ping irons for my first 20 years golfing (same set) and I didn't give them the chance to stay in the bag due to the deals I got on the other sets when I modernized.

 

Hybrids-Cobra, Nike. I haven't diversified much here. The Cobra's work so well and are so pleasing to my eye that I haven't even tried too many of the others.

 

Wedges-All major OEM's. I haven't really found any to be any better than the others. The only ones that don't see much bag time are TM's. Otherwise I've found them to be about the same for me. I'm probably just not good enough for the correct one to make any difference.

 

Putter-Egads. I couldn't even list them all since there are so many putter companies. Right now I game a Odyssey Versa 2 blade with SS 5.0 Fatso on it. I have a new Cure Cx2 that I put a SS 3.0 on that'll be be given a workout shortly. In very limited testing it may have the stuff to take over the spot in the bag. If I ever find a fake Scotty for 30.00 I'll buy that too... kidding kidding.

 

I like all golf clubs and love many of them. Since my purchases run very Golf heavy, I've owned a lot of equipment. Honestly though outside of drivers I've not found a ton of difference between brands, and even with drivers of you hit them good there is very little difference. My 15 year old beat to hell Dunlop Goliath is within 15 yards of my R15. That was pretty shocking to me when I hit both on a LM.

[BForrester]

Why would anyone ever limit themselves in this fashion?

 

Because as a consumer, we "vote" with our wallets. If I don't like how a business conducts themselves, as a consumer, my principles dictate that I do not patronize them no matter how high quality or low a price for their goods/services.

 

I don't buy Apple products because of their proprietary design and overpriced products.

[Big Ben]

Why would anyone ever limit themselves in this fashion?

I don't think anyone is limiting themselves most OEM's are producing a model more than equivalent to match our abilities. It's simple preference...BB

[gpleonard]

Anything Nike.. And PXG.. Just not my style.. To expensive and ridiculous looking.

[SwingBlues]

Why would anyone ever limit themselves in this fashion?

 

Because as a consumer, we "vote" with our wallets. If I don't like how a business conducts themselves, as a consumer, my principles dictate that I do not patronize them no matter how high quality or low a price for their goods/services.

 

I don't buy Apple products because of their proprietary design and overpriced products.

 

I won't buy Apple because its not as open as droid. I feel droid has more innovative apps than apple. It the same way I feel about Titleist, I find their product line dull and boring with Titleist offering little/no tech break through. Unlike Taylormade and Callaway. I don't even play any ProV balls when there are better bang-for-bucks, durable and longer balls than the ProVs. My 2c

[PALS-SSA]

PXG. It's nothing truly special that pretty much every OEM has done at one time or another. Plus, the average joe can't even sniff them without harvesting organs. We can fit anything else for a fraction of the price.

 

Are you against Ferrari, Rolex, Louis Vuitton, .......or hundreds of other brands that the average Joe can't afford. Guess what, PXG is not making clubs for you. And that is absolutely okay because they are flying off the shelves at custom fitters which validates they have found a market niche and are serving it. This may not be the case next year as niche products must continue to evolve. But for now.........

 

It's the obnoxious fanboys like you that make me never want to try PXG.

[rawdog]

The Emperor will chime in and offer his imperial opinion on various brands, some odious.

 

I have been an equipment hoarder and I have seen them all. Let me first say that every company has equipment that is acclaimed or shunned. To me, cosmetics are vital. I believe that in addition to performance, the clubs must look good from every angle. I will share my opinions company by company.

 

Adams

When I first saw the Tight Lies fairway woods in 1995, I thought that the idea of inverting the face so that the top line was narrower than the wider leading edge was innovative, but gradually they transitioned back to traditional designs. Inverted face simply wasn't revolutionary. Their Idea irons are very good, and their drivers are OK, though one of my most reliable drivers is the Redline, which I must add has a square face.

 

Bridgestone

Very good equipment. Maybe Japanese influence?

 

Callaway

Certainly one of the behemoths of the 1990's, their approach to design was initially performance first, cosmetics second. Tradition was thrown out the door and engineering came in first, and the company's first concept of innovation was their S2H2 hosels--or lack of hosels, so to say. The premise was to redistribute weight from the hosel to the face. Quirky, but they hit paydirt thanks mainly to Rich Parente a Dick Delacruz for taking the S2H2 farther by enlarging the head, hence Big Bertha driver. Chi Chi Rodriguez, I recall, first showed the driver to the world at a geezer tour event, and he was passing everyone with it, and everyone had to have one. Woods got bigger and bigger, and their release of the Big Bertha Irons back in 1995 was truly revolutionary. However, the top lines of those clubs were absolutely disgusting to look at, coupled with their severe offset, but the company did not care: performance first, cosmetics last. When Dick Helmstetter came on board and fired Parente and Delacruz, he merely continued and built on innovation and came up with some good designs, most notably the Steelhead Plus 3 wood, which is my favorite today. However, gradually over time, after Helmstetter retired, they shifted from radical equipment to more traditional. You see clubs today that have thinner top lines, less offset, and they even did away with that stupid S2H2 hosel. If they dropped S2H2, the whole concept was hype in the first place? However, kudos to them for getting club designers excited and creative. Will I play Callaway? With the exception of some of their Odyssey putters, not really, because these were the culprits who caused everyone to jack up the lengths and lofts, and their equipment today is still heavily jacked up.

 

Cleveland

Certainly one of the most darling companies of the 1980's with their superb persimmon woods and traditional designs in their Tour Action series. However, Roger Cleveland must have either been desperate or high on drugs when he designed the VAS irons. Even though those "garden tools" won our national Open in 1995, there is no doubt that cosmetics are an important consideration, as sales of VAS irons gradually faded, and soon after Roger sold his company to Rossignol and he started working for Callaway, which he is still doing a great job designing superb wedges. Today, Cleveland is meh, with equipment that is somewhat back to traditional.

 

Cobra

I can't do it, dude. These guys took the same approach as Callaway during the '90's, and they were the idiots who came out with oversize irons. Oversize woods and oversize irons for over-sized egos. Back in the mid-90's, the typical hacker bag was Callaway woods and King Cobra irons. I actually had an unsavory experience in an encounter with Tom Crow. He barked at me for just looking into his bag. He wanted to be left alone, so of course I obliged. This personal encounter is not so much the reason why I shun this equipment as much as their horrid designs of oversized irons and extreme offset (leading edges were behind the right edge of the shaft!). Do you see these features in their equipment today? Of course not! Why so? Because all that crap was hype, and they know it. Gary Biszantz, Tom Crow and Greg Norman made out with hundreds of millions when American Brands (now Fortune Brands) bought them out in the mid-to-late 90's, and they laughed all the way to the bank. Cobra faded away into the sunset after those bandits took the money and ran, but now they are a decent company at best. Will I play their equipment? No way, because their equipment is the most jacked in the industry--don't they have a pitching wedge at 43 degrees? Their game-improvement irons are still offset, but their player's clubs are very good, I must admit.

 

Miura, And Other Japanese Companies

They make great clubs, no doubt, and they know how to make a club. However, they have high price points for their equipment over there, and it is hard to justify paying over a thousand bucks for a used set. They even came out with an iron (Miura Genesis) to compete with PXG, as long as idiots are willing to pay $300 per club.

 

Mizuno

Once one of the darling companies of the 1990's, they are still one of the top companies for irons. How can anyone here not like a good Mizuno forging? Their woods are meh, but they are always known for superb irons.

 

Nike

Phil Mickelson was absolutely right when he called Nike "inferior equipment," and they came out with some God-forsaken abominations. Remember the Sumo² driver, especially the first generation? That horrid driver sounded like a trash can lid when you hit the ball with it. The worst sound ever for a driver, absolutely the worst of all. I would rather hit an old Top Flite driver with a Muscle shaft than that POS. With the remote exception of possibly the Victory Red forged irons, nothing else was good. This company is the lowest on my list, and I am glad they are out of business. Case closed.

 

Ping

Their offset was severe (leading edge in line to the right edge of the shaft), but not as severe as King Cobra. These guys were the innovators of game-improvement irons, and they set the first golf wave in the late 80's that took away most of the tennis players, myself included, as they switched from tennis to golf. After they released their Eye2 irons, everyone made knockoffs and that was how I got started. Hey, these clubs are easy to hit! I must give them credit for their woods because for a long time they refused to shut their faces on their woods up until about the K15 driver, when I started losing respect for them. Their irons were disgusting not so much for their designs, but for their offset. However, my attitude changed when they first released their i3 Blade irons. Today their irons are still offset, but not as bad as their designs from the late-80's thru 90's. Their putters are good, and my favorite putter is a simple Anser 3, which I have sunk many putts from 10' to 15' or so. They set the benchmark with putter design with their Anser putter, and I give them a word of respect for that.

 

PXG

Overpriced! Very much hype with these clubs, and they are for people who earnestly believe that the arrow makes a difference. I would not play these clubs because, quite honestly, I am not willing to pay $300 per club for zero difference in performance. The only thing I can add here is that I don't care about the person Bob Parons is alleged to be, but I have seen him play golf and swing the club. He is not a good golfer, to put it kindly.

 

Titleist

I confess that I am a Titleist guy. I highly praise these guys for not going crazy and releasing radical and stupid designs. I gave them a lot of credit for their woods for traditional shapes and zero face angles. Furthermore, I like their irons for their thin top lines and little-to-no offset. Most of all, I give them credit for designing clubs with the thought of traditional design first before engineering. They did design a few woods I do not like, but their irons are most of the time spot-on with what I am looking for. They brand themselves as "serious clubs for serious golfers," which I agree. Now on the issue of their overpriced putters, I agree with everyone here that Scotty is deliberately gouging his fans, and he is often called "Mr. Xerox" for copying designs, given that some of his original designs (e.g., Futura, Detour) are disgusting abominations that faded in the annuls of Titleist's dark past. Despite that, I give Titleist top marks for sticking with tradition and being the total antithesis to Callaway of old.

 

Srixon

A relatively new company, but their irons I like for their absence of offset. I have not much more to say.

 

TaylorMade

I first fell in love with their woods since I started playing golf in 1990, and I still have their Tour Preferred metalwoods today. They have always been the leader in drivers because, quite simply, they know how to make a driver. This is not to say that all their drivers are the best, because I am a stickler when it comes to face angles; I want a perfectly square face at address or if anything, maybe one degree open. However, they do have their TP series to accomodate face-angle snobs like me, but generally they try their best to help average golfers improve off the tee, even it it means shutting the face. Up until recently, they have never been known for their irons. I happen to have a set of ICW5's that I actually do like to play, but a lot of their irons were not so popular. Today, they have made great strides and their irons are now good. RAC Coin Forged, Tour Preferred, RSI ii are all fabulous designs.

 

Wilson

Once one of the premier companies for a long time, they simply lost out to overwhelming competition. Some of their shameful offerings (e.g., INVEX, Deep Red, Fat Shaft irons, etc.) are evident of desperation rather than innovation. Even their Staff line is not as good as from glory days of old. They may have a few decent woods, and the only thing saving them are their remakes of the FG musclebacks. Putters suck and Joe Phillips isn't around anymore to design their wedges. They are still popular in Europe, though I wonder why.

 

Honorable Mention: Axis1

Absolutely disgusting putters. How can you not throw up when you look down at their Eagle putter? These putters are too loud, and Luis Pedraza even created a softer version in his Tour-S putter, which most Tour Players would still not use.

remind me to never ask you what time it is.

 

I'll tell you what time it isn't!

 

Emp- Bridgestone IS Japanese... and not to be rude but at a casual glance, what brands do you like? Looks like you really picked apart every major brand.

 

LOL. He said Titleist because they put traditional design ahead of engineering. (Doubtful they actually do this.)

 

That's what I want... a product that lags behind the competition. But hey, it's traditional!

[swing thoughts]

NIKE anything

 

Haha I used to be the same way until I bought a set of Vapor Pro irons for next to nothing to resell, but decided to take them to the range first. I now have three full sets and they are about to replace my beloved MP 69's when the mizzies wear out. I am a true believer in Nike irons now; what a shame there are/were people like us or maybe they'd still be making incredible irons. Still won't touch their woods/hybrids, though.

[sphna12d]

I'll play whatever fits my game the best although I'm also not willing to overpay for any equipment. I'm certainly not paying premium for someones marketing strategy.

[TollBros]

At this point the only thing on my "no thanks" list is Titleist woods and balls. The woods spin far too much for me and the balls are good but overpriced compared to competitive balls of equal quality. PXG woods also were very underwealming.

[huskerguy18]

warrior golf lol..... but titleist cause their fan boys are worse than all other fan boys.

 

IDK man...some of those Top Flite fan boys are pretty brutal...

 

Wouldn't say I'm a fan boy but I have a Top Flite Milled Lob Wedge that was really cheap and that I like. Plus Top Flite Gamer Tours are practically my go to ball, they're basically the same price as KSigs but are actually available more than a couple days a year.

[huskerguy18]

I wouldn't rule out any brand. I am not loyal to any company and play what works best for my swing.

Pretty much this^^^^.....but have to say, even though they are now out of the biz, I could not bring myself to play anything Nike (dabbled a bit w their wedges).

 

I started out not liking Nike for a variety of dumb reasons. But I wound up acquiring a set of VR Pro Cavity irons because they were dirt cheap. A Vapor driver that I absolutely crush and a putter that I like but don't use very often because I have a serious problem when it comes to buying putters.

 

Aside from gimmick companies like Bombtech I don't think there's a brand I'll refuse to play. However I don't recall ever having a Ping or Wilson Staff club in my bag

[onafriday]

I believe Big Pun (RIP) put it best:

 

‘I love from butter pecan to black berry molass, I dont discriminate, I regulate every shade of that... Long as you show class and pass my test....’

 

 

[Bubbtubbs]

Why would anyone ever limit themselves in this fashion?

 

Because as a consumer, we "vote" with our wallets. If I don't like how a business conducts themselves, as a consumer, my principles dictate that I do not patronize them no matter how high quality or low a price for their goods/services.

 

I don't buy Apple products because of their proprietary design and overpriced products.

Fair enough. I don't buy Apple because their products are silly marketing gimmicks and you can't customize anything (also iTunes is probably the worst media interface ever devised by mankind), so I understand what you're getting at.

 

I guess I just don't pay enough attention to (or care about) company history or marketing when it comes to golf. I just play whatever feels and works best, but also isn't hideous.

[downundagolf]

1) PING - They are tennis rackets aka shovels

 

2) PXG - Just PING knockoffs used by elitist douchebags

 

 

PING Putters have/could be used as they are the original anser shape etc thats the only exception !!!

[2putttom]

1) PING - They are tennis rackets aka shovels

 

2) PXG - Just PING knockoffs used by elitist douchebags

 

 

PING Putters have/could be used as they are the original anser shape etc thats the only exception !!!

on behalf of half the wrxer's on this site ley me welcome you to the WRX....things must be gettin tough in the Illawong neighborhood

[wobgon]

1) PING - They are tennis rackets aka shovels

 

2) PXG - Just PING knockoffs used by elitist douchebags

 

 

PING Putters have/could be used as they are the original anser shape etc thats the only exception !!!

on behalf of half the wrxer's on this site ley me welcome you to the WRX....things must be gettin tough in the Illawong neighborhood

Avatar reminds me a little of KingLeo.......Quality of post reminds me a lot of him.....

[ebrasmus21]

I've never cared for TM irons or wedges. Just never liked the looks really even though I'm sure they're as good as anything else.

[maamold]

Alright everyone!

 

We all know if you're a true WRX'er, you have a favorite brand. Your "ride or die" brand. Maybe it was because of a club you had years ago. Maybe it's because they made something you didn't own but always sought after. Maybe it's their tech or just appearance.

 

Now let's talk about about those OTHER brands...the brands you just don't even look at when you're online or in a shop. The brand that even if they threw a sponsorship, you'd say "ehhhh lemme think about that...". I know it's hard to not get too emotional but let's try to keep this nice and friendly.

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of Cobra. All started back with the 440sz. Not sure why I didn't like it and why I'm not a fan of their stuff but just doesn't rev my engine. Another brand would be Ogio. It all started when they came out with those Woode bags. I was caddying for a year when those came out. So many golfers at my course got them!!! The thought process behind putting the woods in that way just made no sense to me. Plus some golfers put their woods in the side slots as they designed the bag for but then others didn't follow that way. Not to mention, the straps were garbage and that bag was always heavy even empty.

 

 

 

I love the older Woode design it kept the woods with graphite shafts and irons/wedges separate and it kept things organzied. My 10 year old Ogio finally gave up and I had to change. I tried to find a new Ogio but all I could find were the 14-way dividers which to me make all the clubs bang together more and a new Woode design without the little waves in them that kept the irons from sliding around. The new Woode design also was on their lower end bags so I didn't want that.

 

Honestly I wish I could get away from TM, I was custom fit and play the p770 irons, M1 3W and Stand Bag - but since then I've decided that I don't like their business practices. I'd love to change away but I've spent too much :-) I should have got a Ping Hoofer bag.

 

I won't play PXG. Too much money and don't want anything to do with Blowhard Bob (I work in IT and also dropped GoDaddy for my company as soon as I could)

 

Other brands - make something that works and I'll play it.

[maamold]

For some reason Nike balls spun more than any other ball I've tried to play.

 

All Nike balls after the One platinum were absolutely dreadful

I remember hitting the Nike Balls (RZN) off my old Ping driver twice and my ears hurt for 3 holes after that. Whatever they were made of made that driver loud and unbearable.

[linkerpan]

Just when I was to say I wouldn’t play Callaway, I found the best deal in gloves is the 4 pack from Costco for $25. So there is some Callaway in my bag.

[Browns71213]

Won't play anything from Bridgestone even if it was free. Can't stand the company or the management. Not even Tiger & Lexi could convince me.