Hi-Toe vs PM Grind - any comparisons?

[Benkross]

I'm deciding between the Hi-Toe wedge and PM Grind. I know the Hi-Toe is really new, but has anyone owned both and could they enlighten me? I'm leaning towards the Hi-Toe in 64* because I really like the more square leading edge and the slightly sharper shape. Also reading that the Milled Grind seem to play less bounce than the number - is that true? Finally, could you comment on which one feels softer?

[EastTNGolfer]

I'm not seeing much leading edge difference....

[vietnameeh]

The square leading edge you are referencing is from the tour only model

 

The retail is suppose to be very similar to the pm grind like what tnjohn posted

[uflorida1]

How are each of these when taking a 3/4 swing? Would welcome any feedback people have of the 58 or 60. That’s versatility that could swing my decision on loft and model. Thanks!

[magnus7319]

Grab a ping eye 2 sw for $25 and tell everyone you're old school.

 

It's the same club.

[Srixon-Ian]

The pm grind is very good for 3/4 swonga and below. I am inconsistent on full swings with it, my friend has the same issue.

[Noke]

Grab a ping eye 2 sw for $25 and tell everyone you're old school.

 

It's the same club.

 

I get what you're saying but they're not the same club. Grooves are obviously different (and importantly so), weighting is different, cavity vs not, sole grind is slightly different.

[Downtown_Brown_41]

The hi-toe has a straighter leading edge than the pm but it isn’t like dj’s wedge. There seems to be less offset in the hi-toe as well

[RobYakes]

Have a 56* (bent to 55*) and a 60* PM Grind. Ordered a 58* Hi-Toe a few days ago. Only issues with the PM Grinds are a) lie angle was way too upright (Callaway claims 64* on website, was closer to 66*), b) the stock KBS Tour-V Wedge shaft plays too stiff with no feeling and is a bit heavy for the club head IMO, and c) tough to dial in full shots with PM, definitely a "get out of jail free" club for half-3/4 shots and flops/chips around the green though.

 

Changed the lie angle and the shaft in both my PMs so I'm looking forward to a side by side comparison once my Hi-Toe arrives.

[ChipNRun]

Don't forget to take into account the sole grind.

 

The Callaway PM U-grind has a concave spot (slightly hollowed out) that makes an interesting feel. I have the PM grind in my 60*, and don't seem to have trouble with scuffs or thins on touchy partial shots. This is the first 60* in ten years I've been able to hit consistently.

 

Eye2-style Scooped Sole

 

This is the same results I got from the Ping Glide higher-lofted wedges with the ES (Eye 2 Sole).

[LaymanM]

Didn't hit hi toe today but saw it in store. I love the finish and the face looks great. Very similar to PM Grind but Taylormade nailed the weighting of this wedge.

 

Like PM Grind it looks very versitle. I'm tempted to pick up a 60 but my Mack Daddy Forged are brand new.

 

I need to sort out the top end of my bag first. Cudos to TM even if the design is a copy. They did a great job on this wedge (I am not a TM fan either)

[Ping Player]

Grab a ping eye 2 sw for $25 and tell everyone you're old school.

 

It's the same club.

 

This.

[cmatthews77]

I have the 58 degree PM grind and I love it. I’m actually more comfortable hitting all kinds of shots with the face slightly set open. It’s just such a versatile weapon.

 

I could see folks taking a while to get used to looking at it from address but I don’t even think twice about it. Play lots of 3/4 swing shots with it varying from 60-75 yards.

[Derek666]

Never tried hitting one but it looks ok in the store but im not sure how useful over a standard wedge it'd be since my goal is not to hit it high on the face which i guess this is designed for no?

[Benkross]

I'm not seeing much leading edge difference....

to me the PM has more offset near the hosel. Not sure if it'll look better when the face is open, but when it's square, it's a little off putting for me. However not a deal breaker.

[Benkross]

Don't forget to take into account the sole grind.

 

The Callaway PM U-grind has a concave spot (slightly hollowed out) that makes an interesting feel. I have the PM grind in my 60*, and don't seem to have trouble with scuffs or thins on touchy partial shots. This is the first 60* in ten years I've been able to hit consistently.

 

Eye2-style Scooped Sole

 

This is the same results I got from the Ping Glide higher-lofted wedges with the ES (Eye 2 Sole).

You're a man after my heart. I really like the detail in your signature of your WITB

[Benkross]

Have a 56* (bent to 55*) and a 60* PM Grind. Ordered a 58* Hi-Toe a few days ago. Only issues with the PM Grinds are a) lie angle was way too upright (Callaway claims 64* on website, was closer to 66*), b) the stock KBS Tour-V Wedge shaft plays too stiff with no feeling and is a bit heavy for the club head IMO, and c) tough to dial in full shots with PM, definitely a "get out of jail free" club for half-3/4 shots and flops/chips around the green though.

 

Changed the lie angle and the shaft in both my PMs so I'm looking forward to a side by side comparison once my Hi-Toe arrives.

I don't plan on using the 64* for anything but 3/4 and less shots. I'm thinking of changing up my wedges from 46,51,55,60 to 46,52,58,64

[Benkross]

Never tried hitting one but it looks ok in the store but im not sure how useful over a standard wedge it'd be since my goal is not to hit it high on the face which i guess this is designed for no?

I miss a lot of greens (just barely) and end up having a lot of short shots that need to stop - I attack the pins too aggressively which leads to needing to play aggressive pitches/flops. When playing courses like Bethpage Black, which has crazy overseeded greensides, you need as much loft just to keep chips on the green. With 6-7 inch greenside rough, you have to hit flops or chop it out with as much loft as possible.

[jjc]

Bump

 

I would also like to know what everyone is seeing with the PM vs HI Toe - especially in regards to how the bounce and grinds play differently.

 

 

[Merle33]

Doesn’t matter much anymore... Callaway is no longer producing the PM Grind with the new MD4 wedges just released.

 

Unless you want a used wedge, the TM Hi-Toe will be the only option of it’s kind in the current marketplace.

[Noke]

Is the Hi Toe sole basically the same as the old ATV grind? I just picked up a 64* ATV.

[flubberlange]

TaylorMade was at my club today and I compared my PM wedge to the Hi-Toe.

 

The Hi -Toe looks better at address as the leading edge isn't as rounded but it looks smaller than the PM Wedge.

[ago33]

That high toe looks amazing

[BostonWRX]

Got my hi toe yesterday at address it’s probably the best looking wedge I’ve had. And I’ve had a lot.....been playing sm6 K grind for the past year

[jjc]

Flubber- what difference in playability is there between the two?

 

[flubberlange]

Flubber- what difference in playability is there between the two?

 

For full swings, the Hi-Toe feels more stable and not as awkward. Shots less than full swing feel similar for me. I didn't get a chance to chip in real grass of varying lengths so I'm not sold on the sole/grind of the Hi-Toe.

 

If you want confidence, the PM looks easier hit at address because the face looks significantly bigger.

[RobYakes]

Got my 58* Hi-Toe (KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 shaft, 115g) yesterday and had a chance to chip around my apartment. Used to bag 56* (bent to 55*) and 60* PM Grinds. Had to get the PMs' lie flattened as Cally claims they're stock 64* lie but were more like 66*. Also replaced the stock KBS Tour-V Wedge shafts (125g) to something a bit lighter and with more feel. Initial thoughts are similar to flubberlange above. Hi-Toe has a bit thicker top line but looks more like a normal wedge, i.e. the toe part isn't as pronounced and the top line isn't as sharp as the PM (which makes the PM face look so triangular IMO). Leading edge is not as rounded as the PMs but the PM's leading edge does seem to sit a bit lower to the ground (i.e. less effective bounce) than Hi-Toe. While both share similar-type grinds, the Hi-Toe's ATV (similar to PING's ES grind) is inverted a bit more than PM's. Where PM's looks basically flat in the middle of the U-shaped grind, but running a finger over it you can feel a slight depression, the Hi-Toe's ATV is easily noticeable with the naked eye.

 

With a straighter leading edge and more normal-ish face shape (compared to the PM), I noticed I had less trouble lining up my pitches with the Hi-Toe (also could be that the straighter leading edge makes the club look like there's less "offset" or a less pronounced goose-neck-type look that the PMs have). Also having a bit thicker top line made the face feel like there was a bit more forgiveness on shots not struck directly in the sweet spot. My biggest concern with the PMs was a) full shots with them were touch and go, and b) lining up the face at address to target was hit or miss. While the PMs would basically fall open on their own when you placed the club on the ground (which made flops a breeze), the Hi-Toe doesn't open as easily which I'm happy about as I'm hoping full shots will be easier with this wedge and it will give me the ability to line up pitches with more confidence, yet still have the versatility that I loved about the PM Grinds.

 

Don't get me wrong, my PMs were truly get-out-of-jail-free wedges from around the green and sand, but only being able to use them with confidence from 30-40 yrds and in was tough to justify their spots in my bag (and also because trying to hit knock downs with them was difficult for me as well). We'll see how long my honeymoon period lasts with the Hi-Toe...

[bladehunter]

Doesn’t matter much anymore... Callaway is no longer producing the PM Grind with the new MD4 wedges just released.

 

Unless you want a used wedge, the TM Hi-Toe will be the only option of it’s kind in the current marketplace.

 

Not true. New version of the pm grind coming.

[Belmont148]

Doesn’t matter much anymore... Callaway is no longer producing the PM Grind with the new MD4 wedges just released.

 

Unless you want a used wedge, the TM Hi-Toe will be the only option of it’s kind in the current marketplace.

 

http://www.callawaygolf.com/golf-clubs/wedges/wedges-mack-daddy-pm-black.html

[Konklifer]

Doesn't matter much anymore... Callaway is no longer producing the PM Grind with the new MD4 wedges just released.

 

Unless you want a used wedge, the TM Hi-Toe will be the only option of it's kind in the current marketplace.

 

First, it is still being produced. Second, the Ping Glide ES grind is another option. Third, it does it better than Callaway or TM.