Getting really frustrated by the length of rounds.

[mallrat]

Being a greenskeeper I see firsthand all too often what is slowing golf down and there is not 1 answer. I simple answer is poor play, I work at a nice high end 1/2 resort and 1/2 private course. Wednesday I went out to handwater a few spots on 1 hole. I got there at 1:15 and rolled up the hose at 1:50, during that time I saw 3 groups (well 4 kind of) 1 group was on the green when I got there, 1 on the tee box. The group on the tee box proceeded to dump 3 of 4 tee shots into the garbage, they then tried to play their balls out with only 1 being successful and that only made it 15 yards into the rough and still didn’t reach the fairway. It ends up taking this 4some 25 minutes to play 1 hole. Next group on the tee box is annoyed that i’m In the fairway (granted i’m 320 our from the ladies tees) so I move the hose out of play and go stand behind a tree and watch the gentleman who kept motioning for me to hurry up HIT his tee shot off his own leg.

 

Day before a coworker and I caught a 4some on a par 3. They had just tees off and we’re driving away as we pull up. Well here comes the cart girl. 22 minutes later with 1 gentleman on the green, 1 standing in the bunker (yet to hit) and the other 2 still talking to the cart girl only 50 yards off the tee I yell “can we play through”, guy on the green waves us up but the guys at the cart girl yell no. So we just drive around them

[thug the bunny]

I always mark/clean my ball, but this takes less than 30-60 seconds. If I'm first to putt, I'm cleaning and looking down my line at the same time.

 

60 sec x 32 putts = an extra 34 min just on you over 18 holes. You are slow. I'm actually not arguing against you, just anticipating the replies of the speeders...

 

So, we shouldn't look for our balls, shouldn't hit provisionals (which means a high cap can never keep a real cap), clean our balls, check wind or distance, or hit in turn (which means matches are not really matches), otherwise we are slow.

 

FWIW, that is false math. That is assuming that he always waits to mark, marks, cleans his ball and then replaces before anyone else putts or chips. In reality it is probably closer to an extra 8-12 minutes but to say he is adding that time on to his round is false. He very well could be making up for it and more elsewhere.

 

Of course (pun intended). I was just playing speedster devil's advocate. Some WRXers say if you wipe your nose before you hit you are slow....

[mallrat]

Yeah, i’ve seen that stuff. Sorry for misinterpreting

[North Butte]

You don’t need a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

[rsj1360]

I would assume they work.

 

I take vacation time to golf all the time! I get it, some people cant. However that is not for me to worry about.

Maybe they should check with you first next time they are planning to play.

Easy there buddy..... All im saying is they could have avoided frustrating anyone else on the course by waving people by and not throwing clubs and taking divots on the green.

"waving people by and not throwing clubs and taking divots on the green" is not what you said. You said, "... I dont think 5pm on a decent day when people are trying to squeeze in a quick 9 after work is the right time...".

[HatsForBats]

Had a "fun" 9 yesterday. Started the first hole with 3 other guys who wanted to stick together so let me play through. I get to to the second tee long after the cart in front disappeared from the first hole. Its a young guy and likely his GF playing from one bag in the cart...... Oh boy. So she was clearly very, very, very new at golf. She would hit the ball, maybe 10-20 yards at best and follow after it while the BF slowly rode along side with the cart. Not even giving her the slightest amount of advice as she hacked away!! When they finally got to his ball, he would hit and then let her repeat the process.

 

Now dont get me wrong, everyone has to learn but I dont think 5pm on a decent day when people are trying to squeeze in a quick 9 after work is the right time. Also, get your own clubs. I dont know what the minimum distance a beginner should be able to hit before getting on a real course is, but 20 yards is not it! She needed way more range time, and a BF who can teach her....

 

Also, they barely acknowledged they were holding me up. I could have easily just driven it over their head at least twice and been gone before they knew it. Not that im looking back, I should have! He also threw a putter to her while she was standing on the green which she dropped and took a chunk out. Totally poor etiquette to boot.

 

Miraculously after 5 holes they skipped one and I was able to finish a few holes at my own pace. Might not have actually been the longest 9 of my life but it felt like it!

5:00 on a weekday seems just about the perfect time for a beginner to be out there.

 

Maybe it depends on the course but in my experience that would be one of the worst times.

[deadsolid...shank]

Another thing I find really slows up play is the putting alignment lines on golf balls.

 

It’s just like any of the other actions taken on the course. The act of using the line isn’t slow. It’s when SLOW people use that line that it appears slow.

 

I’ve said too many times to count here how long a normal round takes for us, but 3 out of 4 use the line.

 

People that are slow are going to do everything out there slow. It’s not attributable to any one particular action.

[deadsolid...shank]

Played a round on Thursday last week and the order was a 4-some, my 3-some and then a 4-some behind us. The group in front of us was not very good but we also had one less person so we kept pace easy. The group behind us was very skilled and up our Word not allowed the whole time. We were not playing particularly fast as we were not the hold up but I feel the group behind us was getting a bit annoyed.

 

How do you handle people being annoyed at you when you are not the problem? The group behind eventually skipped from hole 10 over to 13 when they saw an opening. We were in no rush but once the group behind cut around, there was no one else behind so we actually got to relax and BS rather than play fast paced golf which is always nice.

 

My method is to never look behind me. I just don't care. I have one job, to stay up with the folks in front of me.

 

For some reason this annoys me more then a slow round. Same groups are the ones firing once your 5 feet off the green and not even in the cart then crawl up your a** on the next tee when there is just no place to go and everyone is waiting on every shot.

 

On a similar note, I recently played an expensive round at a really nice course, during the week. Tee'd off at 10am, there was nobody ahead of us, in fact the pace seemed empty. The two guys I was paired with just couldn't play fast enough.

 

It annoyed me. I paid a lot of money to play this course and they seemed to be in some rush. They would tee off, and started walking with their caddies as I tee'd off, on the greens they would putt out and walk to the next tee as I'm putting. on a few holes they already tee'd off before I even got there...lol.. I shoot mid 80's and yes one of them was prob a 6 handicap, the other wasn't that good, but come on, enjoy the day a little.

 

We were playing so fast we finally caught up to a group on the 15th hole and one of the guys was all pissed off...We played a 6800 yard course in 3 hours.. that's fine by me at my local muni, but when I spend a few bills to play a nice course I'd like to take it in a little.. just felt rushed the whole day.

Self-entitled *****s. Reminds me of the beep hole threesome I was paired with at St Andrews. Arrogant, unfriendly speedsters with no sense of awe or enjoyment for playing a course that, for most, would be a once in a lifetime experience. One of the reasons I am so adamant about getting people to stop being such speedsters.

 

Always a one way street for you isn't it RSJ? It's always the other guy at fault.

 

Two instance now where the bigger number of people wanted to play faster than the single one. But both times they're the "sel-entitled a**hats" aren't they?

[rsj1360]

Always a one way street for you isn't it RSJ? It's always the other guy at fault.

 

Two instance now where the bigger number of people wanted to play faster than the single one. But both times they're the "sel-entitled a**hats" aren't they?

Nope - give and take on both side typically works. But people like he described (and I played with) have zero concept of "give".

 

"They would tee off, and started walking with their caddies as I tee'd off, on the greens they would putt out and walk to the next tee as I'm putting. on a few holes they already tee'd off before I even got there" is NOT the behavior of a respectful person/group.

 

I'm heading out to play shortly - 10:45 on a Saturday. So my expectation is 5 hrs. I plan for that. If it is faster, great. If not ... well the course will be full. So be it.

[deadsolid...shank]

But why is the give in both of those situations only one way. Both times the faster players made up the majority of the group. But they're the bad guys according to you.

 

They impacted your enjoyment with their pace, but you seem to overlook that if they had slowed down to accommodate you, it would have adversely affected their game. Would that have made you an "a**hat"?

[greg0241]

Maybe this has been mentioned but what if instead of paying for 18 holes you pay for a certain amount of time. I’m sure it would have to be worked out so they you can’t just buy 30 mins. But say a course usually costs 75 for 18 holes and they deem their pace of play to be 4.5 hours. So 75 for 4.5 hours. Then charge an extra $10 per 10 min over the time limit. This would force rangers to actually enforce something and keep people going

[greg0241]

Money to be collected before you tee off. Having to pay extra money or be forced to skip holes would deter from slow play

[hybrid25]

Money to be collected before you tee off. Having to pay extra money or be forced to skip holes would deter from slow play

you are probably right, but who is going to impose the pace of play? That would take money to hire personnel to impose the policy and would probably cause customers to look elsewhere.

[youngstructural]

Anyone not trying to play faster is a slow player.

 

Time can be saved anywhere and every where and if all four players in a foursome save 10 seconds each per hole then they save themselves nearly 12 minutes a round by doing just tiny little things...

 

1. Placing club back in bag after cart arrives at next spot

 

2. Play ready golf ... just on the tee even helps

 

3. Read your putt while the other person putts, nothing worse than watching 3 people stand still while one guy putts

 

4. One practice swing AT MOST.

 

Follow that above and 10 seconds per man per hole could easily be saved.

[youngstructural]

I once thought that charging groups a reducing and scalable deposit would be useful.

 

Say the course on a given day asseses conditions and establishes a round time.

 

You show up and pay your green fees and pay... Let's say a 20 dollar deposit, and after say a 10 min buffer longer then the established time you start losing 5 bucks per 15 mins increment. (Or some dollar per number time).

 

And further, you offer incentives for people for their next round there 5 dollars off per 10 mins sooner they finish (up to say 20 bucks).

 

That will speed alot up.

[justincredible04]

I once thought that charging groups a reducing and scalable deposit would be useful.

 

Say the course on a given day asseses conditions and establishes a round time.

 

You show up and pay your green fees and pay... Let's say a 20 dollar deposit, and after say a 10 min buffer longer then the established time you start losing 5 bucks per 15 mins increment. (Or some dollar per number time).

 

And further, you offer incentives for people for their next round there 5 dollars off per 10 mins sooner they finish (up to say 20 bucks).

 

That will speed alot up.

 

But the issue for most of us here isn’t that we actually play slow. It’s everyone else slows the entire group down at an exponential rate.

 

It’s all relative anyway. I play relatively fast compared to an average player. Maybe even a bit faster. But that’s my personality. I don’t rush anyone. I play with another guy who is the slowest player I’ve ever played with...and he tells me to hurry up. I was having a tough Round and finally hit a decent approach and in my hold follow through he tells me to get in before the ball even touches the green. He’s always worried about the clock and gets angry very easily. He is the only person (non-ranger) to ever to me or the group to hurry up.

 

The point is: people want everyone else to hurry up but don’t give a sh1t about anyone else. Like when your boss says they want people to take accountability...oh I meant everyone except me is going to take accountability haha

[caniac6]

I am retired, so I get to play during the week. After reading some of these posts, I might be one of the guys walking away from the game.

[rsj1360]

But why is the give in both of those situations only one way. Both times the faster players made up the majority of the group. But they're the bad guys according to you.

 

They impacted your enjoyment with their pace, but you seem to overlook that if they had slowed down to accommodate you, it would have adversely affected their game. Would that have made you an "a**hat"?

There was no "give" with them. I did everything I could do to keep up. I played quickly (making my game worse), I practically ran between shots (These guys were probably 15 years younger than me, much taller, and fit) - I was literally exhausted after the round. They did absolutely nothing to make me feel welcome or part of the group. They ignored me. They went way ahead of me when I was looking for my ball in the tall grass. They didn't wait for me to putt out. They never complimented a good shot. Nothing. Trust me, I know a jerk when I see one, and these self-entitled "beeps" were jerks.

[rsj1360]

Anyone not trying to play faster is a slow player.

 

Time can be saved anywhere and every where and if all four players in a foursome save 10 seconds each per hole then they save themselves nearly 12 minutes a round by doing just tiny little things...

 

1. Placing club back in bag after cart arrives at next spot

 

2. Play ready golf ... just on the tee even helps

 

3. Read your putt while the other person putts, nothing worse than watching 3 people stand still while one guy putts

 

4. One practice swing AT MOST.

 

Follow that above and 10 seconds per man per hole could easily be saved.

What a ridiculous comment. There is a limit to how fast people can play. That limit is wildly different dependent on the individual. Just because someone is slower than you, doesn't make him or her "slow".

[rsj1360]

Always a one way street for you isn't it RSJ? It's always the other guy at fault.

 

Two instance now where the bigger number of people wanted to play faster than the single one. But both times they're the "sel-entitled a**hats" aren't they?

Nope - give and take on both side typically works. But people like he described (and I played with) have zero concept of "give".

 

"They would tee off, and started walking with their caddies as I tee'd off, on the greens they would putt out and walk to the next tee as I'm putting. on a few holes they already tee'd off before I even got there" is NOT the behavior of a respectful person/group.

 

I'm heading out to play shortly - 10:45 on a Saturday. So my expectation is 5 hrs. I plan for that. If it is faster, great. If not ... well the course will be full. So be it.

By the way - the round was 4 1/2 hours with a bit or waiting on the front and quite a bit on the back.

[caniac6]

You don't need a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Thanks, Bob!

[nsxguy]

Anyone not trying to play faster is a slow player.

 

Time can be saved anywhere and every where and if all four players in a foursome save 10 seconds each per hole then they save themselves nearly 12 minutes a round by doing just tiny little things...

 

1. Placing club back in bag after cart arrives at next spot

 

2. Play ready golf ... just on the tee even helps

 

3. Read your putt while the other person putts, nothing worse than watching 3 people stand still while one guy putts

 

4. One practice swing AT MOST.

 

Follow that above and 10 seconds per man per hole could easily be saved.

What a ridiculous comment. There is a limit to how fast people can play. That limit is wildly different dependent on the individual. Just because someone is slower than you, doesn't make him or her "slow".

 

Took the words right out of my keyboard. (cool) (Although his "tips" for saving time here and there are valid).

[om18v]

Anyone not trying to play faster is a slow player.

 

Time can be saved anywhere and every where and if all four players in a foursome save 10 seconds each per hole then they save themselves nearly 12 minutes a round by doing just tiny little things...

 

1. Placing club back in bag after cart arrives at next spot

 

2. Play ready golf ... just on the tee even helps

 

3. Read your putt while the other person putts, nothing worse than watching 3 people stand still while one guy putts

 

4. One practice swing AT MOST.

 

Follow that above and 10 seconds per man per hole could easily be saved.

 

You are not really saying 12 minutes is going to change your life are you? Wow. I don't think even the leader of the Vulcan High Command is that important.

[Bonneville85308]

Had a "fun" 9 yesterday. Started the first hole with 3 other guys who wanted to stick together so let me play through. I get to to the second tee long after the cart in front disappeared from the first hole. Its a young guy and likely his GF playing from one bag in the cart...... Oh boy. So she was clearly very, very, very new at golf. She would hit the ball, maybe 10-20 yards at best and follow after it while the BF slowly rode along side with the cart. Not even giving her the slightest amount of advice as she hacked away!! When they finally got to his ball, he would hit and then let her repeat the process.

 

Now dont get me wrong, everyone has to learn but I dont think 5pm on a decent day when people are trying to squeeze in a quick 9 after work is the right time. Also, get your own clubs. I dont know what the minimum distance a beginner should be able to hit before getting on a real course is, but 20 yards is not it! She needed way more range time, and a BF who can teach her....

 

Also, they barely acknowledged they were holding me up. I could have easily just driven it over their head at least twice and been gone before they knew it. Not that im looking back, I should have! He also threw a putter to her while she was standing on the green which she dropped and took a chunk out. Totally poor etiquette to boot.

 

Miraculously after 5 holes they skipped one and I was able to finish a few holes at my own pace. Might not have actually been the longest 9 of my life but it felt like it!

5:00 on a weekday seems just about the perfect time for a beginner to be out there.

 

Maybe it depends on the course but in my experience that would be one of the worst times.

 

 

Agreed, 5:00pm on a weekday, a beginner is going to have a lineup of after-work speedster singles and twosomes (including me) standing with their hands on their hips behind him getting cranky because their chance at getting in 9-18 holes before dark is being put at risk.

[nsxguy]

Had a "fun" 9 yesterday. Started the first hole with 3 other guys who wanted to stick together so let me play through. I get to to the second tee long after the cart in front disappeared from the first hole. Its a young guy and likely his GF playing from one bag in the cart...... Oh boy. So she was clearly very, very, very new at golf. She would hit the ball, maybe 10-20 yards at best and follow after it while the BF slowly rode along side with the cart. Not even giving her the slightest amount of advice as she hacked away!! When they finally got to his ball, he would hit and then let her repeat the process.

 

Now dont get me wrong, everyone has to learn but I dont think 5pm on a decent day when people are trying to squeeze in a quick 9 after work is the right time. Also, get your own clubs. I dont know what the minimum distance a beginner should be able to hit before getting on a real course is, but 20 yards is not it! She needed way more range time, and a BF who can teach her....

 

Also, they barely acknowledged they were holding me up. I could have easily just driven it over their head at least twice and been gone before they knew it. Not that im looking back, I should have! He also threw a putter to her while she was standing on the green which she dropped and took a chunk out. Totally poor etiquette to boot.

 

Miraculously after 5 holes they skipped one and I was able to finish a few holes at my own pace. Might not have actually been the longest 9 of my life but it felt like it!

5:00 on a weekday seems just about the perfect time for a beginner to be out there.

 

Maybe it depends on the course but in my experience that would be one of the worst times.

 

 

Agreed, 5:00pm on a weekday, a beginner is going to have a lineup of after-work speedster singles and twosomes (including me) standing with their hands on their hips behind him getting cranky because their chance at getting in 9-18 holes before dark is being put at risk.

 

Maybe they work too. When SHOULD they be on the course ? Saturday and Sunday ???

[deadsolid...shank]

Always a one way street for you isn't it RSJ? It's always the other guy at fault.

 

Two instance now where the bigger number of people wanted to play faster than the single one. But both times they're the "sel-entitled a**hats" aren't they?

Nope - give and take on both side typically works. But people like he described (and I played with) have zero concept of "give".

 

"They would tee off, and started walking with their caddies as I tee'd off, on the greens they would putt out and walk to the next tee as I'm putting. on a few holes they already tee'd off before I even got there" is NOT the behavior of a respectful person/group.

 

I'm heading out to play shortly - 10:45 on a Saturday. So my expectation is 5 hrs. I plan for that. If it is faster, great. If not ... well the course will be full. So be it.

By the way - the round was 4 1/2 hours with a bit or waiting on the front and quite a bit on the back.

 

It sounds to me like they were trying to keep the group moving. I find it interesting that you complain about people being too fast when a round took 4 1/2 hours.

[nsxguy]

Always a one way street for you isn't it RSJ? It's always the other guy at fault.

 

Two instance now where the bigger number of people wanted to play faster than the single one. But both times they're the "sel-entitled a**hats" aren't they?

Nope - give and take on both side typically works. But people like he described (and I played with) have zero concept of "give".

 

"They would tee off, and started walking with their caddies as I tee'd off, on the greens they would putt out and walk to the next tee as I'm putting. on a few holes they already tee'd off before I even got there" is NOT the behavior of a respectful person/group.

 

I'm heading out to play shortly - 10:45 on a Saturday. So my expectation is 5 hrs. I plan for that. If it is faster, great. If not ... well the course will be full. So be it.

By the way - the round was 4 1/2 hours with a bit or waiting on the front and quite a bit on the back.

 

It sounds to me like they were trying to keep the group moving. I find it interesting that you complain about people being too fast when a round took 4 1/2 hours.

 

He's not complaining about people playing "too fast" as much as people claiming "fast" (3-5 hours or less) is the only acceptable way to play. And that is EXACTLY what the under 3.5 guys are doing - it's my way or the highway.

 

Play fast so you don't inconvenience ME. I don't care if playing faster inconveniences YOU.

 

Point is RSJ has made any number of posts showing he is FLEXIBLE; unlike all the speedsters. He can play faster and he can deal with slower. The speedsters attitude however, is, "If you ain't fast (as I am), you're SLOW".

 

As the beloved Colonel Potter once said "Mule fritters".

 

You don't hear ANYONE supporting anything over 4:30, do you ? Of course not, because if they did they'd be ridiculed no end and laughed off the site.

[FourTops]

How about this?

 

A course has sensors to indicate pace of play by group on each hole....and the ability to determine the slow group...then an auto-text is sent to that group to get going or the fees will be doubled....have rules posted and discussed at check-in.

[deadsolid...shank]

Always a one way street for you isn't it RSJ? It's always the other guy at fault.

 

Two instance now where the bigger number of people wanted to play faster than the single one. But both times they're the "sel-entitled a**hats" aren't they?

Nope - give and take on both side typically works. But people like he described (and I played with) have zero concept of "give".

 

"They would tee off, and started walking with their caddies as I tee'd off, on the greens they would putt out and walk to the next tee as I'm putting. on a few holes they already tee'd off before I even got there" is NOT the behavior of a respectful person/group.

 

I'm heading out to play shortly - 10:45 on a Saturday. So my expectation is 5 hrs. I plan for that. If it is faster, great. If not ... well the course will be full. So be it.

By the way - the round was 4 1/2 hours with a bit or waiting on the front and quite a bit on the back.

 

It sounds to me like they were trying to keep the group moving. I find it interesting that you complain about people being too fast when a round took 4 1/2 hours.

 

He's not complaining about people playing "too fast" as much as people claiming "fast" (3-5 hours or less) is the only acceptable way to play. And that is EXACTLY what the under 3.5 guys are doing - it's my way or the highway.

 

Play fast so you don't inconvenience ME. I don't care if playing faster inconveniences YOU.

 

Point is RSJ has made any number of posts showing he is FLEXIBLE; unlike all the speedsters. He can play faster and he can deal with slower. The speedsters attitude however, is, "If you ain't fast (as I am), you're SLOW".

 

As the beloved Colonel Potter once said "Mule fritters".

 

You don't hear ANYONE supporting anything over 4:30, do you ? Of course not, because if they did they'd be ridiculed no end and laughed off the site.

 

I don't know what posts you've been reading, but you're sure interpreting differently than I am. Isn't anyone who talks about slow play bothering them doing so because it inconveniences them? A 4 1/2 hour group bitching about a five hour group is complaining because they're being inconvenienced.

 

I've seen a lot of people wonder why it takes others as long to play as it does, but rarely (with one exception) have they said it's the only way to play. Also, very few have out and out said "if you're not as fast as us, you're slow"

 

RSJ has always said he can play faster if needed, I've never questioned that. But you answer the question I just asked then. Does that group he mentioned having played with sound like people getting tired of waiting on someone else in the group and trying to keep their group in position? It does to me.

 

He felt rushed. It was a 4 1/2 hour round! Seems to me there is a lot to read from that story between the lines.

 

[deadsolid...shank]

One more thing to add NX. If the "speedsters"( andI really love how RSJ came up with a "safe" derogatory term) are inconvenicing someone, if the slower group lets them through they're inconvenienced no longer. However if they don't, they are inconveniencing the faster group for the entire length of time they're in the same positions. So one group can be bothered for a couple of minutes(because they are speedsters after all, they'll go flying through without holing putts or following rules), or the other for the duration of the round. Sounds fair.

 

Again, like always, the caveat being that there is room ahead. If the course is packed all the way around then I have no problem agreeing with the fact the faster group should slow down and back off.

 

Love the Col Potter reference by the way.