Getting really frustrated by the length of rounds.

[Bingo1976]

Technology can't have any effect on a group who show up wanting to spend 5 hours clogging up the course. Unless the course owner is willing to either turn them away or ask them to leave if they play slowly, there is no technological miracle.

 

The old public course i frequented in Singapore had GPS screens in the buggies that told you where you were in relation to the expected PoP and the group ahead of you. If you were behind the clock, then a ranger would come out and ask you to hurry up. Whilst I never saw anyone not do this, it seemed to work and kept a packed course (first tee time at 6am with bookings to 6pm and floodlight golf until 10pm).

 

Whilst not a miracle, it was technology....

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Technology can't have any effect on a group who show up wanting to spend 5 hours clogging up the course. Unless the course owner is willing to either turn them away or ask them to leave if they play slowly, there is no technological miracle.

 

The old public course i frequented in Singapore had GPS screens in the buggies that told you where you were in relation to the expected PoP and the group ahead of you. If you were behind the clock, then a ranger would come out and ask you to hurry up. Whilst I never saw anyone not do this, it seemed to work and kept a packed course (first tee time at 6am with bookings to 6pm and floodlight golf until 10pm).

 

Whilst not a miracle, it was technology....

It's called the Hawthorne Effect and it's real and it would likely help.

 

Additionally I've been to courses that set the pace expectation when you check in, again with the starter and again with the Marshall... Pace isn't really a problem when you set expectations.

[Baitkiller]

Rookery and Hammock have pretty techy GPS screens in the buggies. They will start flashing red and yell at you to get back on the path if you run astray. They will keep you updated on pace of play and where you stand in relation to the allotted time and tell you to move to the next hole if you fall too far off pace. The other thing is a large monitor in the pros office that depicts the entire course and shows every cart, their times and alarms at bottle necks. This allows the pro to be proactive by sending an assistant out to clear things up before a real back up develops. They don't have marshals, they send a teaching pro,.

For example, one day I'm out with my two children and we are working on some stuff and taking our time. The course is virtually empty, mid summer. I think we were around hole 7 when the nice new lady assistant pro rolls up and, nice as pie explains that two members that play quickly are closing fast and would we please stand aside and let them through?

No problemo, no pissed off members with hands on hips in fairway, no duffed shots from being pressured and it probably didn't cost us more than a couple minutes if that because we knew they were coming and had prepared.

I'm sure the system isn't cheap as these are JW Marriott courses so dont expect to see them at your local muni anytime soon and of course it wouldn't work for walkers. But I dont think you will see too many complaints about those two particular tracks.

[NPVWhiz]

The reason why courses won't solve this is that the management/owners/rangers are often friendly with the offenders. All of life now seems to revolve around relationships or money. That boxes them in and they end up ruining it for the rest of the folks whose money spends just the same as the club pro's buddies. I suspect it's the same for some, maybe all, private clubs. There are some members that are untouchable due to wealth, influence or a combination thereof. Besides, in modern society, the meritocracy is giving way to the "I deserve to play golf the way I want to play it" crowd. And the courses continue to go out of business here in the reportedly golf nutty midwest. These must be the people that heard Frank's "I did it my way", and really just misunderstood what he meant.

[BForrester]

I'm fortunate that the early groups at my local course are all men's club players, and they can all get around the course relatively quickly. We don't play with the men's club, but we usually go off before 9:30. Saturdays can be brutal, but it's pretty easy to get an early tee time on Sunday when Church keep a lot of people off the course. 4 hour rounds are pretty much the norm, which I don't mind.

[mallrat]

At a course we used to be members at they have 18 public and 18 private. To get the 1st hour of tee times on the weekend on either course you have to agree to play a sub 3 1/2 hr round. If you don’t they block you out of those tee times forever.

[Barfolomew]

Ok how bout this simple fix....make the carts just a little faster...maybe it would save 20-30 mins a round!

 

At our course there are a few carts that are noticeably faster then the regular slow dogs and I love driving them.....I always think why arent all the carts this fast....no they are not dangerously fast but they do get up and scoot.

[Baitkiller]

Ok how bout this simple fix....make the carts just a little faster...maybe it would save 20-30 mins a round!

 

At our course there are a few carts that are noticeably faster then the regular slow dogs and I love driving them.....I always think why arent all the carts this fast....no they are not dangerously fast but they do get up and scoot.

 

I always found it a bit ironic that the perfect item to stick the governor wide open on a gas golf cart.... is a golf tee. Those things can haul butt until you get caught and tossed off the course..or so I'm told... :to_become_senile:

[J2putts]

Was at my home course today chipping and putting. 3some pulls up to 10th tee. One says " bro ..im hungry I gotta get me a hot dog or suntin ". Proceeds to drive off to the club house . He was gone for FIFTEEN minutes!!!!! Amazingly nobody caught up to them and the course was crowded. But it's that idgaf mentality about anyone else that drives me insane. Then all 3 proceeded to not total bleep a** tee shots and all tee'd up and hit again .

[FourTops]

Hire less hot cart girls...so tired of low cut tops and hot pants blondes bending over just a little too long to get beers for the guys. Then all the guys have to get pics with them.

[third-times-a-charm]

Hire less hot cart girls...so tired of low cut tops and hot pants blondes bending over just a little too long to get beers for the guys. Then all the guys have to get pics with them.

 

Thats the losers and the weird old men who stop and talk with the cart girls, and take photos with them. Drives me nuts.

 

The course isnt match.com and these girls dont give a s*** about you, besides your tip money old man!

[FourTops]

Hire less hot cart girls...so tired of low cut tops and hot pants blondes bending over just a little too long to get beers for the guys. Then all the guys have to get pics with them.

 

Thats the losers and the weird old men who stop and talk with the cart girls, and take photos with them. Drives me nuts.

 

The course isnt match.com and these girls dont give a s*** about you, besides your tip money old man!

 

Now let's not go over-board here! i'm saying the girls bend over too long.

[CELTIC]

The reason why courses won't solve this is that the management/owners/rangers are often friendly with the offenders. All of life now seems to revolve around relationships or money. That boxes them in and they end up ruining it for the rest of the folks whose money spends just the same as the club pro's buddies. I suspect it's the same for some, maybe all, private clubs. There are some members that are untouchable due to wealth, influence or a combination thereof. Besides, in modern society, the meritocracy is giving way to the "I deserve to play golf the way I want to play it" crowd. And the courses continue to go out of business here in the reportedly golf nutty midwest. These must be the people that heard Frank's "I did it my way", and really just misunderstood what he meant.

 

I'm standing behind a guy to pay for my round at a local public course. The guy finishes and I step up. The cashier says, one minute, do you mind if I get Dr. So and So going ahead of you? I wasn't really sure what he was talking about and this guy (Dr. Whoever) steps up and pays for his round. I honestly just started laughing and said, whatever.

[NPVWhiz]

The root of the problem is in the decision being left to the discretion of a human being. When that is the scenario, the human being is very unreliable mechanism. But, if the human is reduced to a messenger, rather than a decider, the situation can be dramatically improved by using technology. The European Tour event is a good example of this phenomenon. The human isn't deciding who is guilty or who to follow to time, or where to be on the course. They are simply there, everywhere, monitoring everything. But they are just monitors and communicators. The clock decides. Yes...there are a few discretionary elements that are rooted in basic fairness and logic rules that can easily be agreed upon for a system like this, but the heart of the matter remains that the human simply communicates when the infraction has been incurred. The infraction itself comes into being in relation to the player's action (or inaction in this case) and the state of the clock timer.

 

If golf courses would adopt the approach that either you purchase a time block on the course for a fee, or you pay for the time on the course by the increment of time, most of the problem would resolve. This type of approach to solving it is complicated by the contamination of the playing population with small but significant proportion of players with the financial means to just not care about the latter, or the former, approach.

 

Unless there is a machine that decides to charge your credit card the extra fee for taking too long, to which you have explicitly agreed prior to paying, golf will continue to be plagued by the linearity of the process (e.g. a single slow group can hold up everyone behind them with nobody in front of them) and the mental mindset that "I've paid for my time out here and I can do what I want".

 

In kart racing and likely every other form of competitive motorsports, we have timing and scoring system that are fairly reliable that could easily be adapted to an "on and off the course" timing system for golf that would govern how much you pay for the time you spend on the course. My sense is that over time, the existence and use of such a system would encourage some players and groups to go elsewhere, which could help courses recruit and retain players that have a faster play ethic. But I would fear for the financial viability of the courses where they all decide to play instead.

[MIgolfer]

I totally understand your frustration which is why I avoid the course on the weekends. I am lucky enough to be able to dictate my schedule at work, so I work the weekends and have week days off. As a result I generally have the course to myself when I play, I like I that way. I am able to work on my game or just relax and play, my choice. Nothing worst than either having people in front of you playing slow or people behind pushing you to play faster.

 

Chris

[radiman]

I got yelled at by a group of 4 older gentlemen today. We were a threesome playing behind a give some. On an adjacent hole, a group started yelling at us telling us we were holding everyone up. It was a joke. We were waiting on the five some ahead of us every hole. Not to mention, there were two other groups between us. And the group directly in front of them was a hole behind the next group.

 

We finished that 9 in 1:40 and the round in under 4 hours. There is a happy medium between speed golf and a snail's pace that doesn't involve getting irate on the golf course. If you tee off in prime time at a public course, just be happy that the round is only 4 hours in the end.

[FourTops]

People play golf for a day outing...why rounds take forever. It's really that simple. They pay the fees, buy beers, food, balls, etc, and the course reciprocates with NO marshals hassling them.

 

Join a private CC...best bet.

[North Butte]

People play golf for a day outing...why rounds take forever. It's really that simple. They pay the fees, buy beers, food, balls, etc, and the course reciprocates with NO marshals hassling them.

 

Join a private CC...best bet.

 

I think you will find many private clubs are getting slower and slower nowadays, as well. The fiddling with alignment lines on the greens, practice swings and “visualization” before shots and all the other procrastination that’s epidemic on televised golf only has to infect 10% of the golfers on a course to slow the entire pace down, on busy days at least.

 

The fundamental problem with pace of play is it’s largely determined by the least (slowest) common denominator, so to speak.

[deadsolid...shank]

People play golf for a day outing...why rounds take forever. It's really that simple. They pay the fees, buy beers, food, balls, etc, and the course reciprocates with NO marshals hassling them.

 

Join a private CC...best bet.

 

I think you will find many private clubs are getting slower and slower nowadays, as well. The fiddling with alignment lines on the greens, practice swings and “visualization” before shots and all the other procrastination that’s epidemic on televised golf only has to infect 10% of the golfers on a course to slow the entire pace down, on busy days at least.

 

The fundamental problem with pace of play is it’s largely determined by the least (slowest) common denominator, so to speak.

 

I'm seeing more and more "slowness" at our private the last couple of years. Fortunately it's not too bad yet, and most are very good at letting people through.

 

One notoriously slow group though, seems like we usually catch them around six or seven, but they always wait til the turn to let us through. At least they let us through though, so I'm not complaining too much.

[uitar9]

No, they weren't. Geez. Especially given that they literally couldn't hit that far. But thanks for telling me how it was.

 

Were you

one of the guys in that group in front of me? LOL. I guess you're right, it makes sense to not tee off on on a 380 yard par 4 because there is a group on the green putting.

I don't think you are getting their point. We understand that they did not hit when they could have for whatever reason (ego, ignorance, etiquette, whatever). What they are saying is that it didn't really matter when they hit if they were again waiting on the group in front of them on the following holes. That means even with the delay to hit they were still keeping pace because they caught up with them again on the next holes.

 

I've been guilty of this same thing on the course. We are waiting on a group in front of us and the conversation usually goes "I don't think I can get there, but there's no reason to hurry up just so we can wait again." This meaning I don't want to come close to the group in front when we're just going to be waiting again on the next shot or hole. It's common etiquette to me.

 

Very true. You feel kind of sheepish waiting because it's a pretty good poke. Then someone kind of takes the onus off you by saying "it doesn't matter anyway, we'll wait again on the next hole". And they're us usually right.

Plus if the group in front of you has no where to go, then there is no reason to stay on their butt if all you're going to do is wait again.

 

Golfed with a couple of guys who did just that. Waited for the green to clear on their second shots...then put it on the green. But each tee we approached, the 4 some in front were just leaving. Made me think it was a slow day...checked the time sheet, we were only 4 minutes down at 10.

[Bowlorgolf]

The Shot Clock Tournament this weekend was interesting to watch. Several players were slow on the greens and took penalties for being slow. One player’s reaction for a penalty was priceless when he stood over his putt and marched in place for 15+ secs. This would be interesting to put in place for more events.

[North Butte]

If a group consistently has to wait when they arrive at each tee, then they are NOT causing a slow-play problem.

 

I think doing as much of your waiting as possible on the tee rather than in the fairway is a perfectly reasonable coping strategy in situations where my group "naturally" plays a 3-hour pace but we're stuck behind groups playing at a 4-hour pace. I'd rather wait 4-5 minutes on the tee rather than 2-3 minutes on the tee then 2-3 minutes again in the fairway. At least that way we can play each individual hole with some kind of flow and rhythm.

[jpdx]

If a group consistently has to wait when they arrive at each tee, then they are NOT causing a slow-play problem.

 

I think doing as much of your waiting as possible on the tee rather than in the fairway is a perfectly reasonable coping strategy in situations where my group "naturally" plays a 3-hour pace but we're stuck behind groups playing at a 4-hour pace. I'd rather wait 4-5 minutes on the tee rather than 2-3 minutes on the tee then 2-3 minutes again in the fairway. At least that way we can play each individual hole with some kind of flow and rhythm.

 

That's a good point. I prefer to wait on the tee than the fairway as well, for rhythm, as you pointed out.

[TollBros]

Had a "fun" 9 yesterday. Started the first hole with 3 other guys who wanted to stick together so let me play through. I get to to the second tee long after the cart in front disappeared from the first hole. Its a young guy and likely his GF playing from one bag in the cart...... Oh boy. So she was clearly very, very, very new at golf. She would hit the ball, maybe 10-20 yards at best and follow after it while the BF slowly rode along side with the cart. Not even giving her the slightest amount of advice as she hacked away!! When they finally got to his ball, he would hit and then let her repeat the process.

 

Now dont get me wrong, everyone has to learn but I dont think 5pm on a decent day when people are trying to squeeze in a quick 9 after work is the right time. Also, get your own clubs. I dont know what the minimum distance a beginner should be able to hit before getting on a real course is, but 20 yards is not it! She needed way more range time, and a BF who can teach her....

 

Also, they barely acknowledged they were holding me up. I could have easily just driven it over their head at least twice and been gone before they knew it. Not that im looking back, I should have! He also threw a putter to her while she was standing on the green which she dropped and took a chunk out. Totally poor etiquette to boot.

 

Miraculously after 5 holes they skipped one and I was able to finish a few holes at my own pace. Might not have actually been the longest 9 of my life but it felt like it!

5:00 on a weekday seems just about the perfect time for a beginner to be out there.

 

Maybe it depends on the course but in my experience that would be one of the worst times.

 

 

Agreed, 5:00pm on a weekday, a beginner is going to have a lineup of after-work speedster singles and twosomes (including me) standing with their hands on their hips behind him getting cranky because their chance at getting in 9-18 holes before dark is being put at risk.

 

Maybe they work too. When SHOULD they be on the course ? Saturday and Sunday ???

 

Stay on the driving range until you can make consistent advancing contact of at least 100 yards. Then go to 9 hole or par 3 courses and stay there until you can at least shoot no worse than double bogey golf. Then you're ready for the 18 hole big boy courses, however NOT the pristine, heavily watered and bunkered courses meant for players who can hit the ball straight. The biggest problem making golf slow is bad golf. A simple logical progression of play based on ability would take care of 95% of the issue.

[thug the bunny]

5:00 on a weekday seems just about the perfect time for a beginner to be out there.

 

Maybe it depends on the course but in my experience that would be one of the worst times.

 

 

Agreed, 5:00pm on a weekday, a beginner is going to have a lineup of after-work speedster singles and twosomes (including me) standing with their hands on their hips behind him getting cranky because their chance at getting in 9-18 holes before dark is being put at risk.

 

Maybe they work too. When SHOULD they be on the course ? Saturday and Sunday ???

 

Stay on the driving range until you can make consistent advancing contact of at least 100 yards. Then go to 9 hole or par 3 courses and stay there until you can at least shoot no worse than double bogey golf. Then you're ready for the 18 hole big boy courses, however NOT the pristine, heavily watered and bunkered courses meant for players who can hit the ball straight. The biggest problem making golf slow is bad golf. A simple logical progression of play based on ability would take care of 95% of the issue.

 

Who is going to enforce or even advance that ideology? This was a free world last time I checked. I do agree though that bad golf, and clueless golf, are the main culprits. So I choose to not let it bother me, or just go around if the there are open holes ahead. I still don't get the furor over this topic.

[Hack Daddy]

9 minute tee times.

 

That equates a 2.7 hr. round.

 

The "average" 4-some needs about 15 minutes.

[hybrid25]

Right now, to me, it seems so insignificant the length of rounds as I am confronted with the loss of playing golf this year due to an injured shoulder. I would love to have a 6 hour round right now as an option.

[om18v]

Right now, to me, it seems so insignificant the length of rounds as I am confronted with the loss of playing golf this year due to an injured shoulder. I would love to have a 6 hour round right now as an option.

 

Here's hoping for quick recovery!

[jli2636]

5:00 on a weekday seems just about the perfect time for a beginner to be out there.

 

Maybe it depends on the course but in my experience that would be one of the worst times.

 

 

Agreed, 5:00pm on a weekday, a beginner is going to have a lineup of after-work speedster singles and twosomes (including me) standing with their hands on their hips behind him getting cranky because their chance at getting in 9-18 holes before dark is being put at risk.

 

Maybe they work too. When SHOULD they be on the course ? Saturday and Sunday ???

 

Stay on the driving range until you can make consistent advancing contact of at least 100 yards. Then go to 9 hole or par 3 courses and stay there until you can at least shoot no worse than double bogey golf. Then you're ready for the 18 hole big boy courses, however NOT the pristine, heavily watered and bunkered courses meant for players who can hit the ball straight. The biggest problem making golf slow is bad golf. A simple logical progression of play based on ability would take care of 95% of the issue.

 

Just to play devils advocate, what if the only course in the area is a “big boy” course? What if there isn’t a par 3 or an executive course in the area? Should those people just forever be banished to the driving range and never get to step foot on a real course?

[nsxguy]

 

Maybe it depends on the course but in my experience that would be one of the worst times.

 

 

Agreed, 5:00pm on a weekday, a beginner is going to have a lineup of after-work speedster singles and twosomes (including me) standing with their hands on their hips behind him getting cranky because their chance at getting in 9-18 holes before dark is being put at risk.

 

Maybe they work too. When SHOULD they be on the course ? Saturday and Sunday ???

 

Stay on the driving range until you can make consistent advancing contact of at least 100 yards. Then go to 9 hole or par 3 courses and stay there until you can at least shoot no worse than double bogey golf. Then you're ready for the 18 hole big boy courses, however NOT the pristine, heavily watered and bunkered courses meant for players who can hit the ball straight. The biggest problem making golf slow is bad golf. A simple logical progression of play based on ability would take care of 95% of the issue.

 

I don't disagree with you. In fact, that's pretty much what I did when I first learned to play. Personally I'd have been quite embarrassed to swing and miss,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or completely duff more than a shot or 2 during the round.