Could a single digit handicapper break 100 at Shinnecock?

[nsxguy]

I am a 4 and would be lucky to shoot a 120 with that set up. I played Bethpage and shot an 85... playing the ball down but that was not under US Open conditions. The ball was sticking on the greens.... there was no rough or tricked out pin positions.

 

Zero comparison of Black in normal conditions vs. Barclays/Northern Trust vs. US Open.

 

Normal is quite doable rough w/ much wider fairways, slower greens and shorter forced carries.

 

Barclays is 3-4" rough a bit tighter fairways and faster greens 10.5-11.25 stimp.

 

US Open was 275-285yd forced carries to get out of rough, mid-thigh off fairway, belly button 2nd cut and 12-13 stimp.

Multiple balls would stop in fescue before reaching ground.

 

 

[never mind]

[playa]

I always laugh at people, especially mid-handicappers, who think they're just a couple of strokes a side away from being good enough to play a tour setup and not embarrass yourself.

 

Ive played a course twice that was prepped for a Tour event - one PGA Tour, one Champions Tour. People who have never played a course that is prepped for a tour event dont know just how fast they set the greens up. Lightning quick.

 

Im willing to say right now that unless I would happen to stick some iron shots to kick-in range, I'd probably three putt and four putt the majority of the greens at Shinnecock, or most other courses set up for a PGA Tour event. As would most mid-cappers.

And you didn't even mention pin placements. In normal conditions pin placements don't add that much difficulty to a course, but when the greens get slick, like Shinnecock at a US Open slick, tough pins can easily add 2 putts per green compared to member comp greens.

[Chef23]

I always laugh at people, especially mid-handicappers, who think they're just a couple of strokes a side away from being good enough to play a tour setup and not embarrass yourself.

 

Ive played a course twice that was prepped for a Tour event - one PGA Tour, one Champions Tour. People who have never played a course that is prepped for a tour event dont know just how fast they set the greens up. Lightning quick.

 

Im willing to say right now that unless I would happen to stick some iron shots to kick-in range, I'd probably three putt and four putt the majority of the greens at Shinnecock, or most other courses set up for a PGA Tour event. As would most mid-cappers.

 

I have played Champions Tour events in Pro-Ams the day before the tournament and two different PGA courses the day after the event. There is no comparison to those courses and a US Open setup. If you are have played at a high end private course the greens at an average tour event aren’t that much faster. Champions Tour courses on your average week aren’t harder than a tough course you can get access to and while the greens can be quick they aren’t scary fast.

 

The two tour courses I have played are Muirfield Village after The Memorial and Pebble Beach after the ProAm in February. I was a 0-2 at the time and my best was a 78 at Muirfield and 76 at Pebble. Both courses left the Sunday pins. Muirfield they wouldn’t let us play the back tees we played it abou 400 yards shorter. I would likely have been 4-6 shots higher from the back tees. The Muirfield rough was brutal.

 

Pebble in February isn’t what Pebble is for the US Open. It wasn’t super windy the first day I played Pebble and in February the rough isn’t that bad. The second time I played Pebble it was blowing 15 which isn’t super windy and it was a different course.

 

US Open setups are a different beast. I have played Pinehurst 2 and was at the 14 Open and I would have been 15 strokes higher at the Open.

[aabcuue]

My dad shot a 79 at Shinnecock 20-30 years ago, and is a scratch golfer. Obviously, course set up was slightly different, and he wasn't playing PGA Tour event tee boxes/lengths, but he said it's been his favorite round of his life.

 

Great round.

 

However, course is almost night and day from current. Even simple changes like member tees where much shorter and different.

 

Huge amount of trees and underbrush were removed to make wind a bigger factor. Vast majority of fairway bunkers were moved and tees changed angles and location to fairways. More blind shots were created.

 

New fescue was added and fairways were narrowed. Greens added new false fronts and backs. Most greens were enlarged and contours increased.

[aabcuue]

I think its safe to say the "worst" of the Pro's would be about a +6 to +8 (a proper tournament H/C, not calculated with some friends)

 

And on Friday and saturday they were shooting in the 80's, did one pro shoot 92?

 

to suggest a handicap golfer between 5 and 10 breaks 100 is insane and to even think this shows how little you know about how courses are set up for tournaments

 

Just like a pro who shot the 92 was having a seriously off day, and the pros who shot 66s had an on day. I think a 5 would probably be able to break 100 if they got hot. It would be playing for bogey and hoping to make a putt for par for the whole day. Dont hit anything to get you in trouble off the tee lay up on everything and just grind out a boring, but mentally taxing round of golf. That said, the 5 cap could have the worst round of their year and blow up, or they could make everything they look at and have a great day. I think if they did break 100, it would be a seriously good round of golf. Maybe 1/20 5 caps could do it.

 

You didn't see how many pros NOT on TV hit layup irons on many days STILL find trouble regularly.

 

The margin of error was specific fine line designed to challenge the best pros and exact stroke(s) for EVERY minor mistake or not perfect shot.

 

In most greens, the option to aim for center didn't apply. There was only 1 shot type and flight required that if landed with/in 4-5ft zone would work. Anything else was off the green or worse.

 

Saturday excerbated the field as all knew any chance was gone for almost all. Margin cut fine especially for players "on form".

 

What you didn't see on TV was most of Pros w/ flurry of salty 4 letters &/or "other actions" when Shinny got into their head nevermind when shots didn't come off as planned.

 

Even all of the leaders had their moments that weren't on TV. I heard/saw more salt and blow ups/outs in this Open than I've seen over decades of tournaments, playoffs, majors & President/Ryder events.

[aabcuue]

I think its safe to say the "worst" of the Pro's would be about a +6 to +8 (a proper tournament H/C, not calculated with some friends)

 

And on Friday and saturday they were shooting in the 80's, did one pro shoot 92?

 

to suggest a handicap golfer between 5 and 10 breaks 100 is insane and to even think this shows how little you know about how courses are set up for tournaments

 

This from a guy who can't even spell his username correctly. :cheesy:

 

And some pros were also shooting 66s.

 

I'd say it would be difficult but given a caddy, especially one with local knowledge, to handle where to NOT hit it and read the greens, I'd say a mid-single digit or better could absolutely break 100.

 

That didn't help Adam Scott who was on form. He made it through the qualifiers and was putting well.

 

He used his old past caddy, a 10yr Shinnecock local who knows every wind, break and fairway roll.

 

He still missed the cut @ +13. Playing on far easier days and pin positions.

[aabcuue]

I've never completely understood the logic behind these questions, I think we make too much out of majors (sometimes). Other factors like national TV, 2 million $ on the line, golf history, etc., make a huge difference. However, you have to throw this weeks Saturday course conditions out of the equation to make it a fair question. If Fowler is dropping an 84, then no, most of us wouldn't break 100 no matter which tees we played from.

 

They aren't playing on Mars. Shinny still has regular members (that were still playing Tuesday evening). As does Augusta, Oakmont, etc., they are still golf courses, and in US Open cases, sometimes public courses. From the 'appropriate' tees, as a 9ish cap admittedly, very confident I would break 100 even if greens and fairways were firm. I was chatting with a friend this week about how I have played public courses that putts roll off the green and rough is 6"+ deep just feet from the fairway. My home course is notorious for horrible rough (poor maintenance). My course's fairways also average 32 yards wide, this week at Shinny I believe it was around 42. I don't enjoy these conditions necessarily, but on public courses it is quite normal. That's why many of us enjoy seeing pros play the US Open - they are experiencing conditions we see on a normal basis.

 

Could I play it at +7200 yards and break 100 - no way. Couldn't do that for a lot of courses despite conditions and setup. But even Shinnecock at maybe 6400 yards, especially with roll out, I'd have a chance. Enough I would wager on it, at least. And anyone 5 cap or lower, wouldn't wager against them. We all have scratch friends that shoot below par at our home courses, and we are lead to believe by media that they couldn't break 100? Give me a break. They may, even from the tourney tees.

 

Haven't been to a major in person, maybe I'm naive. But I think many of us here would be able to break 100 if it isn't from the tips. There is an LPGA event in my town I go to yearly. Tough course, perfect conditions, perfect greens, low rough, regular for what PGA pros see on a weekly basis. I'd shoot my handicap on that course with their conditions from the member tees, no question.

 

Fairways were actually 41yds at widest. Narrowest was 35yds. Avg was upper 30s depending on the day.

 

Minor problem on member tees. The course revision lengthened the member tees. They are former us open length!

 

The slope is alot harder than the 125 that has been quoted here. Info is per new scorecard and the club pros.

[aabcuue]

If the handicap system is to be believed . The if Pros are +8 ish a 5 handicapper should roughly hit 13 shorts worse on average?

 

That is not how the Handicap system works, thats like saying a -5 cap on Sunday, if he had a really good round, would have shot 76 because Fleetwood shot 63 (or you could be being sarcastic? i cant tell)

 

Sunday conditions was USGA encouraging a Sunday charge and a reaction to how tough Saturday was.

 

Fleetwood said as much if he didn't miss 2 shortish putts then was to win.

[aabcuue]

Nope, no way. Even on the best of the days (Thurs and Sun) the best scores (other than say outliers like Fleetwood) were still low 70's, and these are guys +6 or better. Even from the regular tips, I don't think a single, even a solid 1 or 2 is breaking 90 in those conditions. They'd barely sniff 100 from the tourney tees.

 

If you put a 9 out there on Sat from the tourney tees, I'm not sure he even breaks 120. A 260 yard par 3, bunkers all around the front, with a green like glass?? Wind in your face, gusting up to 20mph? Lucky if they make a 5. Watching these guys look like amateurs putting out there gives you a sense of how fast and ridiculous it was on Sat.

 

My dad has some confidence in his game for being a 18 handicap and 67 years old. Gotta love him. Lets says a 5-9 handicap could they do it, if they played smart. Like Santiago Golf said you cant go out looking to make pars on every hole.

 

He'd shoot 120 - if you've never been on the property you can't fathom how hilly or windy it is

 

Not to mention some of the elevation changes, and how on certain holes there is no room for error. On 14 from the tourney tees you've got to carry about 240 yards of fescue and junk. Even from the tips it's still probably about 190. Fescue right off the fairway, too... not cut of rough. Fescue that's DEEEEEP too... like hack your way out and hope it just goes back in the fairway deep.

 

I can't imagine having to play a 7400 yard course in the wind, into greens like ice where unless you get super fortunate, missing the fairway means at best a bogey.

 

I realize you like to rant away sometimes (then again, who doesn't ?) but the least you could do is stick to the script.

 

The OP DID say "appropriate tees" and you're ranting away about 7400 yards. So "could" ? OF COURSE. And if the title said "Would", the obvious answer is "It depends".

 

And while I really HATE these hypothetical threads (scratch 85 @ Augusta & a 4 beating a lady pro, etc.) they are a bit of fun to "fantasize" about - it exercises our minds,,,,,,,, if nothing else. LOL.

 

20 years ago I played Shinnecock as "about" a 10. Fortunately with a caddie. These guys watch your drive into the waist high fescue and walk you right to it. Quite amazing actually. So they probably saved me about 6 shots for a lost ball that day. Of course all you can do out of that stuff is wedge it back onto the fairway.

 

Now of course the course was not a US Open set up nor were the pins where they were Saturday nor was I trying to break 100 (as the premise of the thread suggests). I believe I shot an 87 or 88 that day.

 

The fairways are quite generous and I am much better today than I was then. If I played as the course was set up on Saturday AND the "bet" was to break 100 I think it's totally possible.

 

If I was trying to make my best score however,,,,,,,, 100 would be more of a question.

 

All pros hit wedges & layed up from any rough including the 1st cut. Those that tried otherwise got into....

worse trouble, shot big #s, where holding their wrist/arm after the shot and/or using non-repeatable language and actions.

 

Even many that layed up got into continued trouble. Blind shots with elevated greens in swirling, changeable wind of 20-30mph made for many a high score.

[aabcuue]

Do you think a single digit handicapper could break 100 at Shinnecock during Saturdays US open conditions playing the appropriate tees?

 

I think they could but it would be very hard. My dad who's a 18 handicap thinks he could break 90 from the appropriate tees in those conditions. I told him he was nuts.

 

If he played from the whites, which measures out to only 5,394 yards, that is a rating/slope of 67.1/125. His course handicap would be 20. So 20 + 67 = 87. Add about 3, because that's usually what you shoot, 3 over your course handicap and gets us to 91. Factor in the conditions from Saturday..and maybe if he played lights out, then it's a huge MAYBE.

 

If he felt that 5,394 yards was too short, then the next set of tees is 6,272 yards with a rating/slope of 70.3/129. His course handicap goes up to 21. So do the math, it works out to 94. Then factor in the conditions, and chances are he couldn't do it.

 

These are the old pre-changed Coore/Crenshaw changes. Lengths are much longer.

[aabcuue]

My point is that this course is very, very hard. The hardest course I've ever played. But we sometimes overestimate how hard they are for the average player.

The reason for that is that we -- and by "we", I don't mean me -- overestimate the scoring difference between pro golfers and low handicap amateur golfers.

 

If the pros average 72 on a course, you can bet 99% of golfWrx is convinced that a scratch golfer would have a hard time breaking 90. It's gotta be a stroke a hole difference -- anything less would be like seeing Jesus walking on water and then falling through.

 

The worst pro out of hundreds of rounds shot a 92 one day at Shinnecock, so obviously, a 5 handicap would shoot about 15 strokes worse than that guy.

 

I said it earlier in the thread. . .me and two other friends played Bethpage Black the week after the Barclay's last year from the back tee box (not where they had the "blues" set up. The BACK) on every single hole. . .roughly 7500 yards. We all broke 90. (I think the 3rd guy did)

 

But, I bet if I asked a thread, "could a 5 handicap break 90 playing Bethpage Black from the back box?" about 99 people in a 100 would go, "no way. Colt Knost shot 80 there and he'd have to give you 18 shots!".

 

A low handicap golfer is going to make a handful of pars out there, mostly bogies after being on or near the green in regulation, and then few doubles and triples, maybe a quad. That doesn't get this golfer anywhere near 100.

 

Barclays setup was night & day easier than any of the US Opens there. Much wider fairways, shorter forced carry to fairway, lower rough, slower greens, et. al.

 

Bethpage even in any of the US Open conditions is MUCH easier than Shinnecock esp. on Saturday.

 

Remember almost all pros complained it was unfair. Even at worse, Bethpage only got complaints from a few and never called unfair.

[aabcuue]

But... I wonder how the Shinnecock members do on it - if they get to play it for a while at pretty close to Open conditions. I was thinking if I (I'm in the 6-8 index range) played it a lot, I'd figure out how to break a 100. The best people to really answer this are the members there. All you Shinnecock members hiding in the WRX bushes, time to make your presence known. Inquiring minds want to know...could we break 100 if we were a single at Shinnecock under Saturday Open conditions?

 

 

....

 

 

Don't all you SH members made a mad dash to answer this. Don't want to crash the WRX site.

I'd be willing to bet that as soon as the ceremonies were over, the sprinklers came on. By today, they are starting the process of cutting the rough. The members have been playing under some semblance of Open conditions, but not the full Monty. The championship tees have been out of play, and the course may have been closed entirely for member play to make it as pristine as possible. I'm sure there are low hdcp members, but I doubt the championship tees are in play, and they do not routinely bake out the greens.

 

Not exactly. Monday is always Media lottery play day after the tournament esp. majors.

 

They will however still water the greens alot.

[aabcuue]

A member marker plays at the Masters if needed, so that would be an estimate for a non-pro who knows that course well. Have not seen markers in a US Open but haven't really paid attention to that.

 

There were multiple markers throughout the tournament. There were different players for different reasons on each day.

 

Sunday was Garrett Rank who missed the cut. He marked with Andrew Beef in 1st group. Garrett was on team Canada for Olympics and US Am runnerup. He's also the NHL official who qualified after doing the NHL playoffs.

[aabcuue]

Rickie Fowler is about a +7 to +8 and he shot 84 on Saturday. So how could a single digit get within 16 strokes of that? No way!!!!!!!!

 

Tony Finau is about a +6 to +7 and he shot 65 on Saturday. So how could a single digit get within 34 strokes of that? No way!!!!!!!!

 

Finau also said that was his best round ever. He hit ever shot on command and put every iron w/in a 2yd target of where he was aiming.

 

fyi, he also went out early in far benign conditions compared to the midday & afternoon conditions. It was at least 5-8 stroke difference.

[aabcuue]

A bunch of celebs all broke 100 at Bethpage black for the US Open challenge as well. Roethlisberger shot 84 as a 3 handicap. Michael Jordan 86 Timberlake 88 as a 6.

 

YUP....the mystic that a good golfer "couldn't break 100" is crap in my book. What i think is they have NO SHOT at say sub 77.....either you give the handicap concept some credence or you don't. The whole point of saying someone is "X" handicap theoretically accurately defines how well they play the game. Now either you accept this or you don't ( i don't really care). What is perturbing to me is saying "a 3 handicap couldn't break 100....". Well dear lord, a 3 should (and I believe statistically would) shoot a score proportional to the accurate slope rating of the track and relative to what the tour player's shoot.

 

Basically - the average week on tour the average score may be 71.8. US Open average score maybe 74.1. So Roethlisberger shot exactly what I would expect as did MJ and JT.....

 

PS ( I completely and arbitrarily made up the avg. scores for illustrative purposes).

 

This US Open wasn't remotely close to even other Opens. Other than 1974 Massacre @Winged Foot, no other Open was as tough.

 

Until a dropout, the cut was +10 for most of the day. After keeping only players peaking, they still shot well over par. Even when morning was well under par net.

 

USGA intentionally made Sunday much easier than all week after Saturday criticism and encouraging a sunday charge.

[aabcuue]

I am curious as to your thought process? So a tour guys index says he's 8 shots better than me, are you saying that as slope rating increases (course gets more difficult) my index gets higher but the tour guy's doesn't? Wouldn't we both shoot higher on harder courses? Isn't that the whole point of the handicap system?

Your index does not change but your course handicap would go up more than the pros on a difficult track(high slope).

 

For example

If you have a 5.74 index and the pro is +5.74

on a 118 slope course your course handicap is 6 and the pro's is +6. you get 12 strokes in the match

on a 145 slope you get a 7 course handicap and the pro is +7. 14 strokes apart

 

The gap slowly gets bigger as slope increases, but if I recall the scoring average on Saturday was ~75, so we're talking 24 strokes apart to break 100.

Wouldn't that require a slope of ~400? (I didn't check the math so its probably wrong, but you get the idea)

 

the old non-tournament slope is 150. The new slope is way over 156+.

 

Saturday morning was likely 160.

afternoon was easily 170.

[aabcuue]

I am curious as to your thought process? So a tour guys index says he's 8 shots better than me, are you saying that as slope rating increases (course gets more difficult) my index gets higher but the tour guy's doesn't? Wouldn't we both shoot higher on harder courses? Isn't that the whole point of the handicap system?

Your index does not change but your course handicap would go up more than the pros on a difficult track(high slope).

 

For example

If you have a 5.74 index and the pro is +5.74

on a 118 slope course your course handicap is 6 and the pro's is +6. you get 12 strokes in the match

on a 145 slope you get a 7 course handicap and the pro is +7. 14 strokes apart

 

The gap slowly gets bigger as slope increases, but if I recall the scoring average on Saturday was ~75, so we're talking 24 strokes apart to break 100.

Wouldn't that require a slope of ~400? (I didn't check the math so its probably wrong, but you get the idea)

I guess I will give it the traditional "depends on the (insert cap) type of player. :) I have a strong iron game and short game. Off the tee I can struggle. So give me a few 250 forced carries and foot tall fescue?? There would be a lot of provisionals hit. Note I am talking from the tournament tees. Not the op's "appropriate" tees.

 

I can easily see a particular individual having a bad day off the tee and shooting a million. I'm not a very accurate driver, so I've lived that on courses a lot easier than Shinnecock.

But on average... the numbers don't add up.

 

Fundamentally, the question is: does the handicap system completely break down under extreme conditions?

 

Saturday Shinnecock would have to have a rating in at least the low-90s to make the "5 cap can't break 100" scenario plausible. But if its rating was in the low-90s, how could the average score of players in the +5 to +8 range be in the mid-70s?

This is like every other thread with a "could a ? shot" or "could a 4 beat a LPGA..." .I might break 100 Saturday at the US Open but watching the telecast I doubt it. Windy, foot tall fescue, a few long carries off the tee, approach shots to essentially I-95 firm greens and short game to the same, extremely fast putts bumping and airborne as much as rolling...

 

I could turn this over and say if Martin Kaymer shot 83 on Thursday and Patrick Rodgers 83 Saturday( not even mentioning the 92!) do I think that under those extreme conditions would I play Kaymer getting a shot a hole? I would not bet much-that's for damn sure.

 

Rough wasn't close to foot tall. Even parts laying down were taller. Standing fescue was up to hip high. I know as I was in it for 4days finding lost/mishit balls by most of the field in these "easy fairways".

[aabcuue]

Play it as a par 88, laying up to full L wedge range(or whatever YOUR most confident approach is, that's mine) on every single hole possible. Bound to get it close enough on a handful of holes for a few one putts to cancel out the inevitable 3's. 90 or so sounds pretty dang doable sitting here in this chair. Would be a fun test. Then go out the next day and try to play the normal game. Be real interesting to see how differently one might score. I bet most low cap ams will score better playing the former method, than trying to take that Saturday set up head-on.

 

Not happening on many holes. The USGA prevented the pros from laying up to LW distance on many holes.

 

Greens in some holes were elevated up to 80ft and fairway would end 100+yds from the green into hip high fescue.

 

Btw, go check the Saturday pin placements. Multiple holes were designed to be only 2 or more putt greens.

 

Unless you can always place your ball w/in 1yd target you just found the fescue on the short side or the false front or back.

 

JT/ Rory/ Speith/ Phil learned this the hard way many times.

[aabcuue]

There is only one way to answer this question: have a single digit play SH. Everything else is speculation, which means all of your opinions are correct. :-)

 

I've played there 3 times over the past 15 years. The fairways were narrower when I played, having been widened by Coore-Crenshaw recently, then tightened up a bit prior to this year's US Open. Greens are almost always fast and the wind is ever-present. I shot low 80s twice, and 78 in my best effort.

 

The fescue at Shinnecock is fair in most areas. Caddies are very adept at finding your ball. You can almost always extricate it unless you get greedy and take too much club. In fact, my home course has nastier stuff. The run-off areas around the greens (just over the back of #11 comes to mind) are very challenging and give everyone fits.

 

I'm currently a 3 hc and typically a very good fast greens putter. If I approached the round with the intent to break 100 I'm reasonably certain that I'd get 'er done.

 

Fairways were drastically narrowed.

 

New fescue was added this past season and let grow for months.

 

Per club pros and USGA stimp was much faster than normal club conditions. Even pin positions were intentionally "challenging" to prevent shooting @flag. Other pins were to force pros to play specific shots and flighting.

 

Saturday esp afternoon was 20-30 strokes harder than normal Shinny conditions.

[aabcuue]

Probably not if I played from the same tees as the pros. The closest I've come to playing in those types of conditions is when I played Torrey Pines South the Monday following the Farmers (7500ish yards and hellacious rough). I shot 95 as a 4.8 handicap and I felt I hit the ball reasonably well.

 

If I played it at 6300-6500 yards, I'm reasonably certain I'd break 100.

 

Problem is member tees are now former 2004 US Open length which is much longer than 6500.

[deadsolid...shank]

Good God, 17 posts in row!

[Ignatius Reilly]

Good God, 17 posts in row!

 

I didn't notice....

 

Of course I also didn't notice that slope affects + players much.

 

And I didn't notice the hip high fescue rough that was over a foot deep either.

 

Gotta get a new tv I guess.

 

Anyway..... Saturday was playing extremely tough, the mean score was 75. So... a mean single digit (5) is going to need about 11 or 12 more strokes than a pro. Which means they could break 90. Some would, some wouldn't. It would come down to putting.

 

Vanity single digits would find themselves having an(other) "off day".

[Shilgy]

Good God, 17 posts in row!

 

I didn't notice....

 

Of course I also didn't notice that slope affects + players much.

 

And I didn't notice the hip high fescue rough that was over a foot deep either.

 

Gotta get a new tv I guess.

 

Anyway..... Saturday was playing extremely tough, the mean score was 75. So... a mean single digit (5) is going to need about 11 or 12 more strokes than a pro. Which means they could break 90. Some would, some wouldn't. It would come down to putting.

 

Vanity single digits would find themselves having an(other) "off day".

Here's my logic on this. Yours clearly is different. Joe Blow with a 5 handicap shows up to play Saturday at the US Open. How much will he wager against the pro if he is getting just 11 or 12 strokes? Hell, let's give him 15 pops. Will he bet the house he can beat the pro?

 

The more extreme the conditions the bigger the spread gets between the best in the world and the local 5 handicap player. Put the 5 on his home club championship with 30 mph winds and tough pins and his scores soar.

[Pleasedwith3putts]

Good God, 17 posts in row!

 

I didn't notice....

 

Of course I also didn't notice that slope affects + players much.

 

And I didn't notice the hip high fescue rough that was over a foot deep either.

 

Gotta get a new tv I guess.

 

Anyway..... Saturday was playing extremely tough, the mean score was 75. So... a mean single digit (5) is going to need about 11 or 12 more strokes than a pro. Which means they could break 90. Some would, some wouldn't. It would come down to putting.

 

Vanity single digits would find themselves having an(other) "off day".

Here's my logic on this. Yours clearly is different. Joe Blow with a 5 handicap shows up to play Saturday at the US Open. How much will he wager against the pro if he is getting just 11 or 12 strokes? Hell, let's give him 15 pops. Will he bet the house he can beat the pro?

 

The more extreme the conditions the bigger the spread gets between the best in the world and the local 5 handicap player. Put the 5 on his home club championship with 30 mph winds and tough pins and his scores soar.

 

The average tour player shot 76 from memory. I'm Joe Blow and I will take the bet with 23 shots against the average field pro all day long, any conditions. I guess I must be a real 5 handicap...

[Ferguson]

Good God, 17 posts in row!

 

 

That beats the record of 16 held by ED3-JACK when he went on that rant about Fred Couples getting paid $1M to play an exhibition match in Turkey.

[Shilgy]

Good God, 17 posts in row!

 

I didn't notice....

 

Of course I also didn't notice that slope affects + players much.

 

And I didn't notice the hip high fescue rough that was over a foot deep either.

 

Gotta get a new tv I guess.

 

Anyway..... Saturday was playing extremely tough, the mean score was 75. So... a mean single digit (5) is going to need about 11 or 12 more strokes than a pro. Which means they could break 90. Some would, some wouldn't. It would come down to putting.

 

Vanity single digits would find themselves having an(other) "off day".

Here's my logic on this. Yours clearly is different. Joe Blow with a 5 handicap shows up to play Saturday at the US Open. How much will he wager against the pro if he is getting just 11 or 12 strokes? Hell, let's give him 15 pops. Will he bet the house he can beat the pro?

 

The more extreme the conditions the bigger the spread gets between the best in the world and the local 5 handicap player. Put the 5 on his home club championship with 30 mph winds and tough pins and his scores soar.

 

The average tour player shot 76 from memory. I'm Joe Blow and I will take the bet with 23 shots against the average field pro all day long, any conditions. I guess I must be a real 5 handicap...

Or a gambler...

Unfortunately we will never know so it's just talk on both sides. A shot a hole from Phil puts you at 99 on the day. Patrick Rodgers-#128 in the owgr-shot 83.

 

I am not saying it is impossible. Just one guys opinion that on that stage-on that course-in those conditions-with that setup- imo it's unlikely.

[Pleasedwith3putts]

Good God, 17 posts in row!

 

I didn't notice....

 

Of course I also didn't notice that slope affects + players much.

 

And I didn't notice the hip high fescue rough that was over a foot deep either.

 

Gotta get a new tv I guess.

 

Anyway..... Saturday was playing extremely tough, the mean score was 75. So... a mean single digit (5) is going to need about 11 or 12 more strokes than a pro. Which means they could break 90. Some would, some wouldn't. It would come down to putting.

 

Vanity single digits would find themselves having an(other) "off day".

Here's my logic on this. Yours clearly is different. Joe Blow with a 5 handicap shows up to play Saturday at the US Open. How much will he wager against the pro if he is getting just 11 or 12 strokes? Hell, let's give him 15 pops. Will he bet the house he can beat the pro?

 

The more extreme the conditions the bigger the spread gets between the best in the world and the local 5 handicap player. Put the 5 on his home club championship with 30 mph winds and tough pins and his scores soar.

 

The average tour player shot 76 from memory. I'm Joe Blow and I will take the bet with 23 shots against the average field pro all day long, any conditions. I guess I must be a real 5 handicap...

Or a gambler...

Unfortunately we will never know so it's just talk on both sides. A shot a hole from Phil puts you at 99 on the day. Patrick Rodgers-#128 in the owgr-shot 83.

 

I am not saying it is impossible. Just one guys opinion that on that stage-on that course-in those conditions-with that setup- imo it's unlikely.

 

I'm no gambler, especially as I don't play four shot hockey like Phil !

 

Lovemark shot 82 in the final round on Sunday at Potomac - all pros can have an off day, that doesn't mean a 5 handicap won't break 100

[Ignatius Reilly]

The OP's question is a little vague.

 

If 100 single-digit guys played shinny in Saturday's conditions, I'm confident that MORE THAN 1 of them would break 100. So I voted "yes".

 

More than half of them? Maybe not.

 

All of them? No.

[jmvargas]

i don't know why i keep checking this thread...the answers are like a merry-go-round!

[sekrah]

Could he? Yes.

More often than not? No.

How often? Maybe 1 out of 6 attempts (15-20% chance)

 

/End thread.