the tour needs to fix the caddie pay issue

[games]

Also, for all those ripping Kuchar, I hope you took note of what Jordan Spieth did last week.

Spieth's regular caddie, Michael Greller, was unable to caddie for Spieth in Mexico due to his father's passing.

So, Spieth put his dad on the bag.

 

Congratulations to those of you who now feel good that your social media "outrage" resulted in Kuchar forking over a few extra bucks to El Tucan.

Because now you need to accept responsibility for the future decline in use of local caddies by professionals when competing in the area.

 

 

Oh, no. An irrelevant meme inserted in lieu of a substantive response. Good heavens, what shall I do?

[Poor Posture]

Seems like this all happened in Mexico - so, your stances on the way things are done in the USA and/or our contract law are kind of silly in this regard.

[cdnglf]

Also, for all those ripping Kuchar, I hope you took note of what Jordan Spieth did last week.

Spieth's regular caddie, Michael Greller, was unable to caddie for Spieth in Mexico due to his father's passing.

So, Spieth put his dad on the bag.

 

Congratulations to those of you who now feel good that your social media "outrage" resulted in Kuchar forking over a few extra bucks to El Tucan.

Because now you need to accept responsibility for the future decline in use of local caddies by professionals when competing in the area.

 

 

Oh, no. An irrelevant meme inserted in lieu of a substantive response. Good heavens, what shall I do?

 

Jump again?

[justasgood]

I weep for the future of America.......

[tiderider]

Also, for all those ripping Kuchar, I hope you took note of what Jordan Spieth did last week.

Spieth's regular caddie, Michael Greller, was unable to caddie for Spieth in Mexico due to his father's passing.

So, Spieth put his dad on the bag.

 

Congratulations to those of you who now feel good that your social media "outrage" resulted in Kuchar forking over a few extra bucks to El Tucan.

Because now you need to accept responsibility for the future decline in use of local caddies by professionals when competing in the area.

 

 

Oh, no. An irrelevant meme inserted in lieu of a substantive response. Good heavens, what shall I do?

 

Jump again?

 

[media=]

[/media]

[lowheel]

 

The word extortion has no place in this conversation. The KJWs really need to stop misusing it.

 

How about the words "ripped off"? by my estimates Ive seen about 90% of posts accuse Kuchar of exactly that...

[lowheel]

I personally have said I have no issues with what Kuchar paid and lament the online mob mentality. The only change of heart I have had, is realizing that the mob mentality is in itself a form of capitalism. If Kuchar wants to endorse products, he has to be liked and respected by potential consumers, and if he isn't that can hurt him financially. So I guess he does have to take some feedback on behavior from the mob as overall it benefits him financially to do so..I still question if said mob were the demographics of your average golf consumer, but I guess sketchers is a pretty broad company

 

I guess i could somewhat agree but I dont view a coordinated online smear campaign as capitalism or free markets working properly especially considering Kuchar did nothing illegal, unethical or immoral. If Kuchar didnt pay what they agreed to then it becomes a legal matter for which Ortiz has legal recourse and I would fully support Ortiz. The bolded part is 100% correct though. Imagine if Kuchar was in between sponsors like alot of players are constantly? Tiger found a whole boatload of sponsors after his personal stuff like nothing. kuch is not tiger obviously but a perennial world top 25 player gets alot of eye balls

 

You're pushing a pretty hard narrative through your posts that Kuchar did nothing wrong, and that somehow there was a witchhunt for him. I think this is a very naive point of view, specifically because you base your comments on how there was a firm agreement between Tucan and Kuchar. Those of us who have speculated on this whole affair were NOT privy to whatever Tucan signed, or the negotiation process that led up to Tucan signing whatever agreement he did with Kuchar. There is way more that goes into a contract than just what's written in it.

 

Now as to Kuchar's actions, it's hard to say. I don't think anyone would have guessed at the start of the week that he would be the one who won the event. However, I think any reasonable person would agree that the amount he actually paid Tucan for the win, in effect, was unreasonable. Traditionally caddies are paid a percentage of the winnings, and the extra $1000 Kuchar paid was more a slap in the face than anything.

 

The fact that you're trying to say he could have lost sponsors is moot because he would have lost them because of his own personal actions, not the actions of anyone else. He chose to pay the caddy a laughable amount. He chose to come out and try and defend the payment. He chose to find excuses for the payments. I'm sorry, but I'm of the personal opinion that we should be able to critique others for their wrong doings.

 

Im not pushing any narrative, simply saying that facts that are uncomfortable are facts never the less.You use terms like unreasonable and laughable when speaking about money this person agreed to well ahead of thursday. There is no debating this.he then offerred him more,15k more and he refused. Kuchar did nothing wrong or illegal. His only sin was doing it in 2018-2019 when social media mobs are the new arbiters of what is fair and just. Everyone is generous with other peoples money with the benefit of online anonymity but in reality very few would dish out in this scenario because deep down nobody wants to be told what to do with their money. No amount of semantics will change that.its like hearing all these blowhard billionaires claim they would be ok with paying higher taxes but never do voluntarily. When the online mob comes after you or your family for "wrong doings" one day im sure youll be okay with it. take care

[bscinstnct]

I weep for the future of America.......

 

Dont despair.

 

Game of Thrones new season right around the corner ; )

 

 

 

 

[bscinstnct]

Also, for all those ripping Kuchar, I hope you took note of what Jordan Spieth did last week.

Spieth's regular caddie, Michael Greller, was unable to caddie for Spieth in Mexico due to his father's passing.

So, Spieth put his dad on the bag.

 

Congratulations to those of you who now feel good that your social media "outrage" resulted in Kuchar forking over a few extra bucks to El Tucan.

Because now you need to accept responsibility for the future decline in use of local caddies by professionals when competing in the area.

 

 

Oh, no. An irrelevant meme inserted in lieu of a substantive response. Good heavens, what shall I do?

 

Jump again?

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Talk about weeping for the future of Murica.

 

That song marked the beginning ; )

 

Here ya go...

 

[justasgood]

I weep for the future of America.......

 

Dont despair.

 

Game of Thrones new season right around the corner ; )

 

 

 

Too busy in my reality to waste time in fantasy.

[bscinstnct]

I weep for the future of America.......

 

Dont despair.

 

Game of Thrones new season right around the corner ; )

 

 

 

Too busy in my reality to waste time in fantasy.

 

Ok, ok, jag. I understand. I appeciate a sober outlook.

 

How bout this?

 

"Well, birthdays are merely symbolic of how another year has gone by and how little we've grown.

No matter how desperate we are that someday a better self will emerge, with each flicker of the candles on the cake, we know it's not

to be, that for the rest of our sad, wretched pathetic lives, this is who we areto the bitter end.

Inevitably, irrevocably; happy birthday? No such thing.”

 

[cdnglf]

 

The word extortion has no place in this conversation. The KJWs really need to stop misusing it.

 

How about the words "ripped off"? by my estimates Ive seen about 90% of posts accuse Kuchar of exactly that...

 

By my estimate, your estimate is about 90% off.

[MtlJeff]

I do have to agree with wheel on that one. No issue if we want to avoid terms like extortion which ok, may be wrong by definition, but then so is "stiffed" since Kuchar had no obligation to pay him more than we did. People just wanted him to pay more.

 

The first definition that comes up for "stiffed" is to cheat someone, if you google it. Kuchar agreed to pay him 3k plus an unspecified bonus and he did in fact do that

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I do have to agree with wheel on that one. No issue if we want to avoid terms like extortion which ok, may be wrong by definition, but then so is "stiffed" since Kuchar had no obligation to pay him more than we did. People just wanted him to pay more.

 

The first definition that comes up for "stiffed" is to cheat someone, if you google it. Kuchar agreed to pay him 3k plus an unspecified bonus and he did in fact do that

Exactly Jeff--- Of course the SJW's only want to spin it their way. The objective thinkers don't spin it. A deal is a deal. I don't think anyone doesn't think kuch was being cheap, but cheap isn't a crime nor is it immoral or stiffing someone. It only spun out of control because of the jerk Gillis and his desire to elevate his social media status by being the SJW.

[justasgood]

I weep for the future of America.......

 

Dont despair.

 

Game of Thrones new season right around the corner ; )

 

 

 

Too busy in my reality to waste time in fantasy.

 

Ok, ok, jag. I understand. I appeciate a sober outlook.

 

How bout this?

 

"Well, birthdays are merely symbolic of how another year has gone by and how little we've grown.

No matter how desperate we are that someday a better self will emerge, with each flicker of the candles on the cake, we know it's not

to be, that for the rest of our sad, wretched pathetic lives, this is who we areto the bitter end.

Inevitably, irrevocably; happy birthday? No such thing.”

 

Hmm, I get better everyday as life teaches me and experiences help me grow.

Thanks for the read though.

[new2g0lf]

I see it as a form or extortion, the SJW's were going to heckle Kuchar until he paid up. You're all very generous when it comes to spending someone elses money. An agreement is an agreement, no matter what the state or country, a mans word should mean something.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I see it as a form or extortion, the SJW's were going to heckle Kuchar until he paid up. You're all very generous when it comes to spending someone elses money. An agreement is an agreement, no matter what the state or country, a mans word should mean something.

 

I think Gillis's tipping habits should be closely monitored and if he gives what someone perceives as cheap then the SJW's should go after him as well.

[new2g0lf]

I see it as a form or extortion, the SJW's were going to heckle Kuchar until he paid up. You're all very generous when it comes to spending someone elses money. An agreement is an agreement, no matter what the state or country, a mans word should mean something.

 

I think Gillis's tipping habits should be closely monitored and if he gives what someone perceives as cheap then the SJW's should go after him as well.

 

It seems some here believe that how much you pay someone for a service should be based on the income of the person purchasing the services, not the standard and customary rates given their accreditation within their field. The caddies at private golf clubs are going to love all the extra income.

[lowheel]

The word extortion has no place in this conversation. The KJWs really need to stop misusing it.

 

How about the words "ripped off"? by my estimates Ive seen about 90% of posts accuse Kuchar of exactly that...

 

By my estimate, your estimate is about 90% off.

 

Listen, Im not here to argue with you.I respect alot of your opinions but if you cant admit a huge % of posts in threads about this that are now in the cooler werent saying Kuchar ripped off/stiffed this guy I dont know what to say.

[lowheel]

I see it as a form or extortion, the SJW's were going to heckle Kuchar until he paid up. You're all very generous when it comes to spending someone elses money. An agreement is an agreement, no matter what the state or country, a mans word should mean something.

 

I think Gillis's tipping habits should be closely monitored and if he gives what someone perceives as cheap then the SJW's should go after him as well.

 

It seems some here believe that how much you pay someone for a service should be based on the income of the person purchasing the services, not the standard and customary rates given their accreditation within their field. The caddies at private golf clubs are going to love all the extra income.

 

well said

[Wildwing55]

Also, I’m sure everyone playing on Tour sees what Kuchar is going through and will avoid repeating this scenario.

 

Agree. If the tour pros have any sense, they'll do what it takes to get their regular caddy with them while in international waters to avoid this kind of extortion and social media punch a clown.

 

Extortion: calling a cheapskate a cheapskate

 

I wasn’t implying they’ll make sure they take their caddie abroad. I was saying that they’ll avoid the many missteps that Kuchar made in this whole ordeal. He and his representatives mishandled this situation from the get go.

 

Sorry, but the only way to avoid this BS is to take your regular caddy with you. Otherwise, this crap will happen. All the best.

[Steele47]

I come at it from the point of view that Matt thought he would get away with being cheap. He got what he deserved. He's world traveled guy with money in the bank, brand ambassador etc... He had to be thinking, "Wow.. Not only did I win but I don't have to pay the usual rate and this guy will be thrilled with 5 grand so woo hoo!" Just proof that it's best to do the right thing even when you think no one is looking. He could have tossed that guy 20k and all would have been good but he went Extreme cheap grinning as he jetted out of Mexico. Tour rookie doing the same, I can see it. Successful tour veteran, not so much. Bad optics plain and simple and now he lives with it. Really curious to see how they treat him at Bethpage.

[duffer987]

I weep for the future of America.......

 

Dont despair.

 

Game of Thrones new season right around the corner ;

 

Too busy in my reality to waste time in fantasy.

Well this window into your busy reality has been quite a treat.

[lowheel]

I come at it from the point of view that Matt thought he would get away with being cheap. He got what he deserved. He's world traveled guy with money in the bank, brand ambassador etc... He had to be thinking, "Wow.. Not only did I win but I don't have to pay the usual rate and this guy will be thrilled with 5 grand so woo hoo!" Just proof that it's best to do the right thing even when you think no one is looking. He could have tossed that guy 20k and all would have been good but he went Extreme cheap grinning as he jetted out of Mexico. Tour rookie doing the same, I can see it. Successful tour veteran, not so much. Bad optics plain and simple and now he lives with it. Really curious to see how they treat him at Bethpage.

 

Very telling...

[new2g0lf]

I come at it from the point of view that Matt thought he would get away with being cheap. He got what he deserved. He's world traveled guy with money in the bank, brand ambassador etc... He had to be thinking, "Wow.. Not only did I win but I don't have to pay the usual rate and this guy will be thrilled with 5 grand so woo hoo!" Just proof that it's best to do the right thing even when you think no one is looking. He could have tossed that guy 20k and all would have been good but he went Extreme cheap grinning as he jetted out of Mexico. Tour rookie doing the same, I can see it. Successful tour veteran, not so much. Bad optics plain and simple and now he lives with it. Really curious to see how they treat him at Bethpage.

 

Any other weekend, Ortiz makes 1/10 of what Kuchar offered him. Kuchar didn't ask him to do anything more than he would for any other golfer he caddied for and they agreed on the terms of the deal. Kuchar gave the guy 25% more than was agreed to as a bonus for winning.

 

I will agree the optics are bad in the sense that Kuchar could have been more generous, but he wasn't obligated to be and that's where we differ. I respect the right of another person to not do what I'd do so long as they are well within the spirit of the agreement they had. I don't decide how much money others have and how they should spend it. Ortiz did a job he does every day, he didn't win a lottery, so for him to expect $50,000 or $100,000 and for those like you to expect Kuchar to give him that much is asinine just because some pro caddies might have been paid that.

 

The guy who changes my tires doesn't ask me for a pay stub to determine the price of the tires before he sells me them. Another question, would you defend Kuchar breaking the deal and paying nothing to Ortiz if he didn't make the cut? If not, then imo you're hypocritical.

[Steele47]

I come at it from the point of view that Matt thought he would get away with being cheap. He got what he deserved. He's world traveled guy with money in the bank, brand ambassador etc... He had to be thinking, "Wow.. Not only did I win but I don't have to pay the usual rate and this guy will be thrilled with 5 grand so woo hoo!" Just proof that it's best to do the right thing even when you think no one is looking. He could have tossed that guy 20k and all would have been good but he went Extreme cheap grinning as he jetted out of Mexico. Tour rookie doing the same, I can see it. Successful tour veteran, not so much. Bad optics plain and simple and now he lives with it. Really curious to see how they treat him at Bethpage.

 

Very telling...

 

 

 

Yes he got what he deserved by being cheap doing the wrong thing. Your impression is I'm bloodthirsty dude who watches Faces of Death twice a year.

 

Yes I am curious given how they treated Sergio years ago. Doesn't mean I'm wishing he get mauled by a bunch of hooligans. Merely means I'm curious.

 

Your using boldface in quoting me tells me you missed everything else I said? Or am I assuming too much?

[lowheel]

I come at it from the point of view that Matt thought he would get away with being cheap. He got what he deserved. He's world traveled guy with money in the bank, brand ambassador etc... He had to be thinking, "Wow.. Not only did I win but I don't have to pay the usual rate and this guy will be thrilled with 5 grand so woo hoo!" Just proof that it's best to do the right thing even when you think no one is looking. He could have tossed that guy 20k and all would have been good but he went Extreme cheap grinning as he jetted out of Mexico. Tour rookie doing the same, I can see it. Successful tour veteran, not so much. Bad optics plain and simple and now he lives with it. Really curious to see how they treat him at Bethpage.

 

Very telling...

 

 

 

Yes he got what he deserved by being cheap doing the wrong thing. Your impression is I'm bloodthirsty dude who watches Faces of Death twice a year.

 

Yes I am curious given how they treated Sergio years ago. Doesn't mean I'm wishing he get mauled by a bunch of hooligans. Merely means I'm curious.

 

Your using boldface in quoting me tells me you missed everything else I said? Or am I assuming too much?

 

Yes you are. No need for hyperbole though. you keep saying "doing the wrong thing" which tells me all i need to know. All good agree to disagree

[Steele47]

I come at it from the point of view that Matt thought he would get away with being cheap. He got what he deserved. He's world traveled guy with money in the bank, brand ambassador etc... He had to be thinking, "Wow.. Not only did I win but I don't have to pay the usual rate and this guy will be thrilled with 5 grand so woo hoo!" Just proof that it's best to do the right thing even when you think no one is looking. He could have tossed that guy 20k and all would have been good but he went Extreme cheap grinning as he jetted out of Mexico. Tour rookie doing the same, I can see it. Successful tour veteran, not so much. Bad optics plain and simple and now he lives with it. Really curious to see how they treat him at Bethpage.

 

Any other weekend, Ortiz makes 1/10 of what Kuchar offered him. Kuchar didn't ask him to do anything more than he would for any other golfer he caddied for and they agreed on the terms of the deal. Kuchar gave the guy 25% more than was agreed to as a bonus for winning.

 

I will agree the optics are bad in the sense that Kuchar could have been more generous, but he wasn't obligated to be and that's where we differ. I respect the right of another person to not do what I'd do so long as they are well within the spirit of the agreement they had. I don't decide how much money others have and how they should spend it. Ortiz did a job he does every day, he didn't win a lottery, so for him to expect $50,000 or $100,000 and for those like you to expect Kuchar to give him that much is asinine just because some pro caddies might have been paid that.

 

The guy who changes my tires doesn't ask me for a pay stub to determine the price of the tires before he sells me them. Another question, would you defend Kuchar breaking the deal and paying nothing to Ortiz if he didn't make the cut? If not, then imo you're hypocritical.

 

 

 

This is one of those arguments that will never be resolved. It's like the left and right issue. Some people are wired this way. And some are wired that way. I am shocked this debate has gone on as long as it has. Story has more legs than the Rockettes and that's whats so sad for Kuchar. He's got this thing hanging over him for long time.

[Steele47]

I come at it from the point of view that Matt thought he would get away with being cheap. He got what he deserved. He's world traveled guy with money in the bank, brand ambassador etc... He had to be thinking, "Wow.. Not only did I win but I don't have to pay the usual rate and this guy will be thrilled with 5 grand so woo hoo!" Just proof that it's best to do the right thing even when you think no one is looking. He could have tossed that guy 20k and all would have been good but he went Extreme cheap grinning as he jetted out of Mexico. Tour rookie doing the same, I can see it. Successful tour veteran, not so much. Bad optics plain and simple and now he lives with it. Really curious to see how they treat him at Bethpage.

 

Very telling...

 

 

 

Yes he got what he deserved by being cheap doing the wrong thing. Your impression is I'm bloodthirsty dude who watches Faces of Death twice a year.

 

Yes I am curious given how they treated Sergio years ago. Doesn't mean I'm wishing he get mauled by a bunch of hooligans. Merely means I'm curious.

 

Your using boldface in quoting me tells me you missed everything else I said? Or am I assuming too much?

 

Yes you are. No need for hyperbole though. you keep saying "doing the wrong thing" which tells me all i need to know. All good agree to disagree

 

 

 

lol... Well I've said it before Low. I'm a simple guy and even though I kissed the Blarney Stone I DO NOT have the gift of the gab. I'll leave it to you Clarence Darrows.

[Wildwing55]

 

Story has more legs than the Rockettes and that's whats so sad for Kuchar. He's got this thing hanging over him for long time.

 

Sorry, but you're wrong. If Tiger doesn't get hated for screwing hookers with a wife at home, I don't this will haunt Matt for a long time.

 

Just reality for you. All the best.