the tour needs to fix the caddie pay issue

[GeorgeHWB]

How about something that the Tour could fix ... treating caddies like dignified humans. There was a time when pros were not allowed in the club houses. We are past that now ... how about the same for caddies when the tour is in town?

 

The idea that caddies have to stand in the rain while players hang out in the club house is absurd.

 

See this tweet from Craig Connelly ... Branden Grace's caddie.

 

https://twitter.com/...044747528069120

 

Caddies are human donkeys and yardage calculators. They are easily replaceable if they don't like their working conditions. In fact, they can be replaced with a push cart and a range finder (if the PGA Tour would allow it). A push cart won't complain if it's left in the rain. Problem solved.

[tatertot]

How about something that the Tour could fix ... treating caddies like dignified humans. There was a time when pros were not allowed in the club houses. We are past that now ... how about the same for caddies when the tour is in town?

 

The idea that caddies have to stand in the rain while players hang out in the club house is absurd.

 

See this tweet from Craig Connelly ... Branden Grace's caddie.

 

https://twitter.com/...044747528069120

 

Caddies are human donkeys and yardage calculators. They are easily replaceable if they don't like their working conditions. In fact, they can be replaced with a push cart and a range finder (if the PGA Tour would allow it). A push cart won't complain if it's left in the rain. Problem solved.

 

You're a class act dude. I think "human donkey" pretty much describes you to a tee.

[BB28403]

The nut house is missing some patients!

[MtlJeff]

Hey, per Wikipedia Donkeys are often used as pack animals and sometimes are used for breeding.

 

Caddies only get 1/2 of that! And it's the worse half!

[bscinstnct]

How about something that the Tour could fix ... treating caddies like dignified humans. There was a time when pros were not allowed in the club houses. We are past that now ... how about the same for caddies when the tour is in town?

 

The idea that caddies have to stand in the rain while players hang out in the club house is absurd.

 

See this tweet from Craig Connelly ... Branden Grace's caddie.

 

https://twitter.com/...044747528069120

 

Caddies are human donkeys and yardage calculators. They are easily replaceable if they don't like their working conditions. In fact, they can be replaced with a push cart and a range finder (if the PGA Tour would allow it). A push cart won't complain if it's left in the rain. Problem solved.

 

Nonsense.

 

Donkey are neither bipedal or in possesion of opposable thumbs.

 

How can they clean the clubs and hand them the the player?

 

 

[GoGoErky]

Once again gentlemen, NOBODY disputed their ORAL contract,,,,,,,,,,, so no need for a written one.

 

And Kuchar shouldn't have needed a lawyer to advise him. He should have known himself what would happen if when word got out.

 

And he's got an agent, doesn't he ? This is the sort of thing they're (supposedly) paid for.

 

Word shouldn't have gotten out because pay is between employer and employee and is nobody's business. So why would he have been worried if it got out? Not to mention he did nothing wrong other than other people think he should have been a nice guy and pay more money than he and the caddie agreed to.

 

Was there a verbal non-disclosure agreement as well ? I hadn't heard that. :rolleyes:

 

So word gets out. Sorry.

 

It was a busy body who wanted foster the pot so went to the caddie to get the info and by the sounds of it put s big in the caddies ear and then Gillis made it everyone's business.

 

Smart people don't talk about what they make with others

 

So ? What's your point ?

 

Doesn't matter who or how, it got out.

 

The point is 1) Kuchar did nothing wrong 2) he made an agreement and the other party agreed to it and upon completion of the event the teens of the agreement were met 3) mob/social justice made a problem out of something that didn’t exist because the rich white guy didn’t pay what they though was his fair share because that price is less than a full time tour caddie makes and despite their job responsibilities being different everyone should make the same money and anything less is greedy and wrong. The mentality that no one should have more than another and the rich are bad no matter what.

[DFinch]

#Quagmire.

 

#giggity

 

 

[tatertot]

Kuchar did nothing wrong in your opinion ... Obviously others thought differently ... Believe it or not, your (or my) opinion is not fact.

 

"Mob/social justice" ... No one came at Kuchar with pitchforks. He felt bad/got pressure from sponsors. That's how free societies work. Not sure what your complaining about. People can disagree with you.

[bscinstnct]

 

The point is 1) Kuchar did nothing wrong 2) he made an agreement and the other party agreed to it and upon completion of the event the teens of the agreement were met 3) mob/social justice made a problem out of something that didn’t exist because the rich white guy didn’t pay what they though was his fair share because that price is less than a full time tour caddie makes and despite their job responsibilities being different everyone should make the same money and anything less is greedy and wrong. The mentality that no one should have more than another and the rich are bad no matter what.

 

Kooch was being a cheap bastid though, right?

 

; )

[new2g0lf]

How about something that the Tour could fix ... treating caddies like dignified humans. There was a time when pros were not allowed in the club houses. We are past that now ... how about the same for caddies when the tour is in town?

 

The idea that caddies have to stand in the rain while players hang out in the club house is absurd.

 

See this tweet from Craig Connelly ... Branden Grace's caddie.

 

https://twitter.com/...044747528069120

 

How about you don't take the job if you don't like the working conditions? I didn't realize caddies were modern day slaves who were forced to work as caddies in such insufferable conditions for little or no pay. Bones always made the job sound pretty good, guess he didn't know how bad it was.

[nsxguy]

 

Was there a verbal non-disclosure agreement as well ? I hadn't heard that. :rolleyes:

 

So word gets out. Sorry.

 

It was a busy body who wanted foster the pot so went to the caddie to get the info and by the sounds of it put s big in the caddies ear and then Gillis made it everyone's business.

 

Smart people don't talk about what they make with others

 

So ? What's your point ?

 

Doesn't matter who or how, it got out.

 

The point is 1) Kuchar did nothing wrong 2) he made an agreement and the other party agreed to it and upon completion of the event the teens of the agreement were met 3) mob/social justice made a problem out of something that didn't exist because the rich white guy didn't pay what they though was his fair share because that price is less than a full time tour caddie makes and despite their job responsibilities being different everyone should make the same money and anything less is greedy and wrong. The mentality that no one should have more than another and the rich are bad no matter what.

 

My point was they HAD a contract and both of them stuck to it.

 

Your point is the same tired point you've been spouting over and over and over again. Everyone gets it.

[Steele47]

Yeah.. This story has no legs.

[GeorgeHWB]

How about something that the Tour could fix ... treating caddies like dignified humans. There was a time when pros were not allowed in the club houses. We are past that now ... how about the same for caddies when the tour is in town?

 

The idea that caddies have to stand in the rain while players hang out in the club house is absurd.

 

See this tweet from Craig Connelly ... Branden Grace's caddie.

 

https://twitter.com/...044747528069120

 

Caddies are human donkeys and yardage calculators. They are easily replaceable if they don't like their working conditions. In fact, they can be replaced with a push cart and a range finder (if the PGA Tour would allow it). A push cart won't complain if it's left in the rain. Problem solved.

 

You're a class act dude. I think "human donkey" pretty much describes you to a tee.

 

I'm sorry if I have offended you.

[new2g0lf]

How about something that the Tour could fix ... treating caddies like dignified humans. There was a time when pros were not allowed in the club houses. We are past that now ... how about the same for caddies when the tour is in town?

 

The idea that caddies have to stand in the rain while players hang out in the club house is absurd.

 

See this tweet from Craig Connelly ... Branden Grace's caddie.

 

https://twitter.com/...044747528069120

 

Caddies are human donkeys and yardage calculators. They are easily replaceable if they don't like their working conditions. In fact, they can be replaced with a push cart and a range finder (if the PGA Tour would allow it). A push cart won't complain if it's left in the rain. Problem solved.

 

Exactly, let's stop glorifying menial jobs, next we'll be getting a lecture on how rough it is to work at McDonalds.

 

Bones was one of the best caddies out there and somehow Phil was able to win with his brother carrying his bag. Rory won with his buddy carrying his bag, Reed won with his pregnant wife carrying his bag and the Masters with his brother-in-law, so how tough can the job really be?

[BB28403]

Hey, per Wikipedia Donkeys are often used as pack animals and sometimes are used for breeding.

 

Caddies only get 1/2 of that! And it's the worse half!

 

The networks can only air so much

[GoGoErky]

 

Was there a verbal non-disclosure agreement as well ? I hadn't heard that. :rolleyes:

 

So word gets out. Sorry.

 

It was a busy body who wanted foster the pot so went to the caddie to get the info and by the sounds of it put s big in the caddies ear and then Gillis made it everyone's business.

 

Smart people don't talk about what they make with others

 

So ? What's your point ?

 

Doesn't matter who or how, it got out.

 

The point is 1) Kuchar did nothing wrong 2) he made an agreement and the other party agreed to it and upon completion of the event the teens of the agreement were met 3) mob/social justice made a problem out of something that didn't exist because the rich white guy didn't pay what they though was his fair share because that price is less than a full time tour caddie makes and despite their job responsibilities being different everyone should make the same money and anything less is greedy and wrong. The mentality that no one should have more than another and the rich are bad no matter what.

 

My point was they HAD a contract and both of them stuck to it.

 

Your point is the same tired point you've been spouting over and over and over again. Everyone gets it.

 

I said the same thing about the contract as you are in every one of my posts.

 

The rest of it is aboutvthe guys who think Kuchar did something wrong by sticking to the contract.

[new2g0lf]

 

 

It was a busy body who wanted foster the pot so went to the caddie to get the info and by the sounds of it put s big in the caddies ear and then Gillis made it everyone's business.

 

Smart people don't talk about what they make with others

 

So ? What's your point ?

 

Doesn't matter who or how, it got out.

 

The point is 1) Kuchar did nothing wrong 2) he made an agreement and the other party agreed to it and upon completion of the event the teens of the agreement were met 3) mob/social justice made a problem out of something that didn't exist because the rich white guy didn't pay what they though was his fair share because that price is less than a full time tour caddie makes and despite their job responsibilities being different everyone should make the same money and anything less is greedy and wrong. The mentality that no one should have more than another and the rich are bad no matter what.

 

My point was they HAD a contract and both of them stuck to it.

 

Your point is the same tired point you've been spouting over and over and over again. Everyone gets it.

 

I said the same thing about the contract as you are in every one of my posts.

 

The rest of it is aboutvthe guys who think Kuchar did something wrong by sticking to the contract.

 

Kuchar got extorted, plain and simple and the social media mob bullied him until he paid the guy off. I liked Kuchar more when he held his ground and didn't pay Ortiz.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Kuchar got extorted, plain and simple and the social media mob bullied him until he paid the guy off. I liked Kuchar more when he held his ground and didn't pay Ortiz.

 

The only real solution in order to prevent these kinds of issues in the future is to run all compensation matters by Gillis for approval :)

Furthermore Gillis should be asked at every tournament he attends as to whether he's reviewed and approved the compensation for everyone working.

[HitEmTrue]

"Mob/social justice" ... No one came at Kuchar with pitchforks. He felt bad/got pressure from sponsors. That's how free societies work. Not sure what your complaining about. People can disagree with you.

 

Free societies haven't always worked this way...at least not to this degree. Social media and instant news have changed things. Everything is faster, and amplified. People "care" about things they didn't care about before.

 

Golfwrx is a part of this social network ecosystem. I acknowledge that many will disagree with this. :)

[ray9898]

Yup....they should set a salary of maybe $80k a year paid as a weekly salary. That will put their job in the top 10% of wage earners in this country, no more complaining about tips or bonus percentages.

[nsxguy]

Yup....they should set a salary of maybe $80k a year paid as a weekly salary. That will put their job in the top 10% of wage earners in this country, no more complaining about tips or bonus percentages.

 

[Roadking2003]

Smart people don't take advantage of folks lower in the pecking order since it might come back and bite ya in the head cover.

 

Paying somebody 10 times their normal wage isn't "taking advantage of folks".

[Roadking2003]

Yup....they should set a salary of maybe $80k a year paid as a weekly salary. That will put their job in the top 10% of wage earners in this country, no more complaining about tips or bonus percentages.

 

While you are at it, why not have the government determine what everybody makes.......then we can all live happily-ever-after.

[ray9898]

 

While you are at it, why not have the government determine what everybody makes.......then we can all live happily-ever-after.

 

This is about whining caddies....not everyone else.

[bscinstnct]

"Mob/social justice" ... No one came at Kuchar with pitchforks. He felt bad/got pressure from sponsors. That's how free societies work. Not sure what your complaining about. People can disagree with you.

 

Free societies haven't always worked this way...at least not to this degree. Social media and instant news have changed things. Everything is faster, and amplified. People "care" about things they didn't care about before.

 

Golfwrx is a part of this social network ecosystem. I acknowledge that many will disagree with this. :)

 

People been gettin riled up since forever

 

[Bunker2Bunker0no]

This may just end up turning into the genie that all the Tour caddies wish that they could get back in the bottle. Maybe this is the moment in time that all Tour players examine why they are paying out an additional 10%-7%-5% of their winnings to start with????

 

Two pronged approach into this logic....1st, since virtually all players today come thru the college ranks where No Caddies policy isn't even debated, maybe the next generation questions, why is Tour policy to have a caddie? Matthew Wolfe wins how many events at Ok St, makes cut in Phoenix with his swing coach on bag....if I turn pro, what is different about those 18 holes on Tour vs the 18 holes I played and won on in college???? I won with 14 clubs and a range finder in college, can I not be just as successful with 14 clubs and a yardage book on Tour????

 

2nd, where did caddies come from??? Obviousy the game came from modern day GB, back in the day when a golf cart/trolley wasn't 100's yrs from invention....so if you didn't want to physically walk AND carry bag for 18 holes, u hired a caddie. Fast forward to when golf became "semi popular" in the United States...it was predominantly played by the top 10% of income earners in the country, still before golf carts, so the country clubs hired people willing to work a job that was carrying a heavy bag and walking along players, for a small salary and the hopes of a tip.

 

Fast forward to the 60-70-80's, golf carts are everywhere and caddie programs have gone away except at the most exclusive of country clubs and resorts.

 

The Tour caddie program started with hiring a local at the club where each event was played, to provide local knowledge, help with reading the greens, advise on what club and where to hit off the tee(back when 250 was avg drive, bunkers and dog legs were strategically placed in landing areas and needed to be avoided, before stocked free range balls, caddie had to literally shag their pros own range balls). But these guys were like all of society and job performance, ranged from great, to avg, to may or may not even show up the next day. So guys started thinking, may be I should just find one reliable guy and take him out on the road to every tournament I play....taaaahhh daaaa the modern Tour caddie.

 

Case can be made today, especially after Kuchar wins with a local, what real value does a Tour caddie bring today....carry the ball 300+, SEND IT with a driver on all the 4's and 5's, greens books that tells you exactly where every break is on the green, your senses work same as a caddie(you and see and feel wind direction)....so we are down to 3 essential job services, carry the bag, rake the trap if player is in it, and hold-remove-replace flag stick. Couldn't we have 18 "green caddies" to deal with the flag on each hole, a cadre of folks from Greens staff stationed on each hole to rake traps in the correct manner when a player is in a bunker, and any able bodied person can carry a bag for 5hrs and stay quiet.

 

So why am I looking to pay a person minimum of 5% of my salary for a made cut for a service that I could deem unnecessary???

 

Calm down caddies, I know a lot of you provide a lot more than what I just broke down....but if a new college kid makes the Tour and has that same view of it, is someone going to force him/her to adhere to the 5-7-10 rule of pay....or face the Internet lynch mob if they decide they would rather "go it alone" in terms of hiring a Tour caddie????

 

Smart man once told me, we invoke "Tradition" when we won't do things a correct new way....

[Dano golf]

This is not a Kuchar bashing post... my opinion is that the tour could step in and implement a minimum caddie pay for the week(s) a fill in caddie is employed. Somewhere between 50-75% of the golfers original caddie contract/agreement would be a good starting point including any documented bonuses for a win or even a top ten. That way there is no negotiating and the wage is auto set based on the regular caddie pay.

 

Nothing is broken. The Tour Guys have it figured out just fine, and when it's not fine, this happens, and it works out. We can save a few Donkeys

while we're at it.

[ex0dus]

Kuchar's big mistake was his comment about a guy making $200 a day. Was he cheap to pay him only $5k? Sure. But you could make that same argument if he paid him $15k.

[new2g0lf]

Kuchar's big mistake was his comment about a guy making $200 a day. Was he cheap to pay him only $5k? Sure. But you could make that same argument if he paid him $15k.

 

Kuchar should have just avoided making any statements as there was nothing he could have said that would have satisfied the SJW's. He paid Ortiz well above what he usually makes and had Kuchar missed the cut this entire situation would have never happened.

[bscinstnct]

Kuchar's big mistake was his comment about a guy making $200 a day. Was he cheap to pay him only $5k? Sure. But you could make that same argument if he paid him $15k.

 

Kuchar should have just avoided making any statements as there was nothing he could have said that would have satisfied the SJW's. He paid Ortiz well above what he usually makes and had Kuchar missed the cut this entire situation would have never happened.

 

Kuchar's big mistake was his comment about a guy making $200 a day. Was he cheap to pay him only $5k? Sure. But you could make that same argument if he paid him $15k.

 

Kuchar should have just avoided making any statements as there was nothing he could have said that would have satisfied the SJW's. He paid Ortiz well above what he usually makes and had Kuchar missed the cut this entire situation would have never happened.

 

Kuch go Costanza cheap and SJW be like,