2019 Masters Tournament hosted by ANGC (merged)

[imakaveli]

Watching 2018 replay, still rooting for Rory and refusing to accept what happened...

[Cool Runnings]

Driving accuracy means little compared to SG-Tee (which is position combined with distance). When comparing Tiger to himself from some other recent years, yes he’s doing ok, but in order for Tiger to win today he has to beat all the competitors today (not himself from years prior), and to this point Tiger (ranked only #72) is still so far behind the best players today in SG-Tee who use their Tee games as huge weapons. In Tiger’s heyday he benefited hugely from his advantage off the tee over most of the field, but today that’s been reversed in this age of monster hitters that he’s now competing against.

 

> @nosedive32 said:

> I don't know what the "Tiger needs to fix his driving" crowd are smoking but they either are smoking something good or haven't watched a tournament since the PGA Championship.

> Since Tiger tweaked his loft and shaft for the playoffs last year he's driven it as accurately as he has since 2000.

> He's 54th in accuracy. He was 54th in 2000 and never better since . With the exception of Mexico he's also hitting driver more often than he has in ages.

>

 

 

[Ferguson]

Menus from the Masters Champions Dinner

 

Here is a sampling of Champions Dinner fare:

 

 

Sergio Garcia, 2018: Garcia's menu began with an "International salad," with ingredients chosen to represent the countries of past Masters champions. The entree was arroz caldoso de bogavante, a traditional Spanish lobster rice. And for desert, Garcia chose his mother's recipe for tres leches cake, served with tres leches ice cream.

 

Danny Willett, 2017: The Englishman chose a traditional British meal. Willett's menu started with mini cottage pies (similar to shepherd's pie but made with beef rather than lamb). The entree: a traditional "Sunday roast" ((prime rib, roasted potatoes and vegetables, Yorkshire pudding). For dessert, apple crumble and vanilla custard. And a finish of coffee and tee with English cheese and biscuits, plus a selection of wines.

 

Jordan Spieth, 2016: Salad of local greens; main course of Texas barbecue (beef brisket, smoked half chicken, pork ribs); sides of BBQ baked beans, bacon and chive potato salad, sauteed green beans, grilled zucchini, roasted yellow squash; dessert of warm chocolate chip cookie, vanilla ice cream.

 

 

Bubba Watson, 2015: Watson served the same menu he did in 2013.

 

Adam Scott, 2014: Surf-and-turf on the grill, including Moreton Bay 'bugs' (lobster). Started with an appetizer of artichoke and arugula salad with calamari. The main course of Australian Wagyu beef New York Strip steak, served with Moreton Bay lobster, sauteed spinach, onion cream mashed potatoes. Desserts of strawberry and passion fruit pavlova, Anzac biscuit and vanilla sundae.

 

Bubba Watson, 2013: Traditional caesar salad to start. Entree of grilled chicken breast with sides of green beans, mashed potatoes, corn, macaroni, and cheese, served with cornbread. Dessert of confetti cake and vanilla ice cream.

 

Charl Schwartzel, 2012: An opening course consisting of a chilled seafood bar, which includes shrimp, lobster, crabmeat, crab legs, and oysters. The main course is a "braai," a South African barbecue, which includes lamb chops, steaks, and South African sausages. Dessert of vanilla ice cream sundae. Also in the mix are salads, cheeses, plus sides such as sauteed sweet corn, green beans, and Dauphinoise potatoes.

 

 

Phil Mickelson, 2011: A Spanish-themed menu with seafood paella and machango-topped filet mignon as the entrees. Also includes a salad course, asparagus, and tortillas as sides, plus ice cream-topped apple empanada for dessert.

 

Angel Cabrera, 2010: An Argentine asado, a multicourse barbecue featuring chorizo, blood sausage, short ribs, beef filets and mollejas (the thymus gland, aka sweetbreads).

 

Trevor Immelman, 2009: Bobotie (a spiced minced meat pie with an egg topping), sosaties ( a type of chicken skewer), spinach salad, milk tart and South African wines.

 

Zach Johnson, 2008: Iowa beef, Florida shrimp.

 

Phil Mickelson, 2007: Barbecued ribs, chicken, sausage and pulled pork, with cole slaw.

 

Tiger Woods, 2006: Stuffed jalapeno and quesadilla appetizers with salsa and guacamole; green salad; steak fajitas, chicken fajitas, Mexican rice, refried beans; apple pie and ice cream for dessert.

 

Phil Mickelson, 2005: Lobster ravioli in tomato cream sauce, Caesar's salad, garlic bread.

 

Mike Weir, 2004: Elk, wild boar, Arctic char (that's a fish), Canadian beer.

 

Tiger Woods, 2003: Tiger brought back the porterhouse steak, chicken, and sushi from his 2002 menu. Also on the menu were sashimi, salads, crab cakes, asparagus, mashed potatoes and a chocolate truffle cake.

 

Tiger Woods, 2002: Porterhouse steak and chicken with a sushi appetizer.

 

Vijay Singh, 2001: Seafood tom kah, chicken panang curry, baked sea scallops with garlic sauce, rack of lamb with yellow kari sauce, baked filet Chilean sea bass with three flavor chili sauce, lychee sorbet.

 

Mark O'Meara, 1999: Chicken fajitas, steak fajitas, sushi, tuna sashimi.

 

Tiger Woods, 1998: Cheeseburgers, chicken sandwiches, french fries, milkshakes.

 

Nick Faldo, 1997: Fish and chips, tomato soup.

 

Ben Crenshaw, 1996: Texas barbecue.

 

Jose Maria Olazabal, 1995: Paella (a Spanish rice dish) and hake (whitefish), plus tapas.

 

Bernhard Langer, 1994: Turkey and dressing, black forest torte.

 

Fred Couples, 1993: Chicken cacciatore.

 

Sandy Lyle, 1989: Haggis, mashed potatoes, mashed turnips.

 

Bernhard Langer, 1986: Wiener schnitzel (breaded veal).

 

(*Haggis is a Scottish specialty. Take sheep organs - heart, liver, and lungs - and mince. Add minced suet, oatmeal, and onions, and boil the whole mixture inside a sheep's stomach.)

[3jacker]

All of those look great except Bubba and Sandy Lyle's.

Bubba's is ok, just kind of meh...grilled chicken breast is kinda boring. And haggis is just mean.

[Cool Runnings]

It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

 

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> >

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > >

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > >

> > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> >

> >

>

> there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

>

> keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

 

 

[imakaveli]

> @Ferguson said:

> Menus from the Masters Champions Dinner

>

> Here is a sampling of Champions Dinner fare:

>

>

> Sergio Garcia, 2018: Garcia's menu began with an "International salad," with ingredients chosen to represent the countries of past Masters champions. The entree was arroz caldoso de bogavante, a traditional Spanish lobster rice. And for desert, Garcia chose his mother's recipe for tres leches cake, served with tres leches ice cream.

>

> Danny Willett, 2017: The Englishman chose a traditional British meal. Willett's menu started with mini cottage pies (similar to shepherd's pie but made with beef rather than lamb). The entree: a traditional "Sunday roast" ((prime rib, roasted potatoes and vegetables, Yorkshire pudding). For dessert, apple crumble and vanilla custard. And a finish of coffee and tee with English cheese and biscuits, plus a selection of wines.

>

> Jordan Spieth, 2016: Salad of local greens; main course of Texas barbecue (beef brisket, smoked half chicken, pork ribs); sides of BBQ baked beans, bacon and chive potato salad, sauteed green beans, grilled zucchini, roasted yellow squash; dessert of warm chocolate chip cookie, vanilla ice cream.

>

>

> Bubba Watson, 2015: Watson served the same menu he did in 2013.

>

> Adam Scott, 2014: Surf-and-turf on the grill, including Moreton Bay 'bugs' (lobster). Started with an appetizer of artichoke and arugula salad with calamari. The main course of Australian Wagyu beef New York Strip steak, served with Moreton Bay lobster, sauteed spinach, onion cream mashed potatoes. Desserts of strawberry and passion fruit pavlova, Anzac biscuit and vanilla sundae.

>

> Bubba Watson, 2013: Traditional caesar salad to start. Entree of grilled chicken breast with sides of green beans, mashed potatoes, corn, macaroni, and cheese, served with cornbread. Dessert of confetti cake and vanilla ice cream.

>

> Charl Schwartzel, 2012: An opening course consisting of a chilled seafood bar, which includes shrimp, lobster, crabmeat, crab legs, and oysters. The main course is a "braai," a South African barbecue, which includes lamb chops, steaks, and South African sausages. Dessert of vanilla ice cream sundae. Also in the mix are salads, cheeses, plus sides such as sauteed sweet corn, green beans, and Dauphinoise potatoes.

>

>

> Phil Mickelson, 2011: A Spanish-themed menu with seafood paella and machango-topped filet mignon as the entrees. Also includes a salad course, asparagus, and tortillas as sides, plus ice cream-topped apple empanada for dessert.

>

> Angel Cabrera, 2010: An Argentine asado, a multicourse barbecue featuring chorizo, blood sausage, short ribs, beef filets and mollejas (the thymus gland, aka sweetbreads).

>

> Trevor Immelman, 2009: Bobotie (a spiced minced meat pie with an egg topping), sosaties ( a type of chicken skewer), spinach salad, milk tart and South African wines.

>

> Zach Johnson, 2008: Iowa beef, Florida shrimp.

>

> Phil Mickelson, 2007: Barbecued ribs, chicken, sausage and pulled pork, with cole slaw.

>

> Tiger Woods, 2006: Stuffed jalapeno and quesadilla appetizers with salsa and guacamole; green salad; steak fajitas, chicken fajitas, Mexican rice, refried beans; apple pie and ice cream for dessert.

>

> Phil Mickelson, 2005: Lobster ravioli in tomato cream sauce, Caesar's salad, garlic bread.

>

> Mike Weir, 2004: Elk, wild boar, Arctic char (that's a fish), Canadian beer.

>

> Tiger Woods, 2003: Tiger brought back the porterhouse steak, chicken, and sushi from his 2002 menu. Also on the menu were sashimi, salads, crab cakes, asparagus, mashed potatoes and a chocolate truffle cake.

>

> Tiger Woods, 2002: Porterhouse steak and chicken with a sushi appetizer.

>

> Vijay Singh, 2001: Seafood tom kah, chicken panang curry, baked sea scallops with garlic sauce, rack of lamb with yellow kari sauce, baked filet Chilean sea bass with three flavor chili sauce, lychee sorbet.

>

> Mark O'Meara, 1999: Chicken fajitas, steak fajitas, sushi, tuna sashimi.

>

> Tiger Woods, 1998: Cheeseburgers, chicken sandwiches, french fries, milkshakes.

>

> Nick Faldo, 1997: Fish and chips, tomato soup.

>

> Ben Crenshaw, 1996: Texas barbecue.

>

> Jose Maria Olazabal, 1995: Paella (a Spanish rice dish) and hake (whitefish), plus tapas.

>

> Bernhard Langer, 1994: Turkey and dressing, black forest torte.

>

> Fred Couples, 1993: Chicken cacciatore.

>

> Sandy Lyle, 1989: Haggis, mashed potatoes, mashed turnips.

>

> Bernhard Langer, 1986: Wiener schnitzel (breaded veal).

>

> (*Haggis is a Scottish specialty. Take sheep organs - heart, liver, and lungs - and mince. Add minced suet, oatmeal, and onions, and boil the whole mixture inside a sheep's stomach.)

 

They desperately need some lasagne ;)

Go Chicco!

[gioguy21]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

>

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > >

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> >

> > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

>

>

 

so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

 

and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

 

i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

[Rangeballz]

> @imakaveli said:

> Watching 2018 replay, still rooting for Rory and refusing to accept what happened...

 

I hear ya. The last two years Sunday viewing for me has sucked, but it is what it is.

 

 

[MilkyButterCuts]

https://www.masters.com/en_US/news/articles/2019-04-08/the_official_masters_podcast.html

[BearQ]

Players who can’t win masters article is always a good laugh. Eliminating former champs, contenders and current top 20 players. Is reasonable masters material really this limited?

[Cool Runnings]

I gave you a good “factual” insight previously when explaining about the accuracy / relevancy of various stats to each other. I also researched and provided a poignant fact regarding Molinari’s API win with him being ranked #1 in SG-Tee, and then Tiger being ranked #72 this season SG-Tee. Perhaps you glazed over these?

 

Things aren’t always black & white either, sometimes they’re nuanced and require a mix of words and facts with some glue to bind them, some call that a brief story. For example looking at seasonal stats when looking at a single event only reveals so much. At Augusta the majority of winners have been better ballstrikers than putters (That’s another fact). You have to work back from the hole to score. Iron play has been proven to be the biggest key at Augusta (another fact) and thankfully this is one of Tiger’s strengths, but, as AN has become a very long course, that means more drivers for Tiger (his biggest weakness) and although there’s minimal rough, there are trees, bushes, areas you can’t hit the ball off the tee into. If Tiger starts becoming wayward off the tee with his driver (not unreasonable given his known weaknesses and recent tendencies), then Tiger could be in trouble if he can’t hit his driver relatively long and straight.

 

Lots of facts and lots of words, with some glue, just for you. With love.

 

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> >

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > >

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > >

> > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> >

> >

>

> so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

>

> and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

>

> i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

 

 

[bladehunter]

 

Weather pretty sketchy here in SC. Lots of wind and buckets of rain. Hope it’s passed over Augusta. Cause it’s making a mess of my already bloomed azaleas.

 

[jmvargas]

been watching replays ...something always seems to happen to Jordan Spieth at the Masters--flashes of brilliance and disastrous holes..

wouldn't be surprised if something similar happens again this week...

 

.....with the right breaks he could have had at least 3 Masters since 2015!!

[bladehunter]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> Driving accuracy means little compared to SG-Tee (which is position combined with distance). When comparing Tiger to himself from some other recent years, yes he’s doing ok, but in order for Tiger to win today he has to beat all the competitors today (not himself from years prior), and to this point Tiger (ranked only #72) is still so far behind the best players today in SG-Tee who use their Tee games as huge weapons. In Tiger’s heyday he benefited hugely from his advantage off the tee over most of the field, but today that’s been reversed in this age of monster hitters that he’s now competing against.

>

> > @nosedive32 said:

> > I don't know what the "Tiger needs to fix his driving" crowd are smoking but they either are smoking something good or haven't watched a tournament since the PGA Championship.

> > Since Tiger tweaked his loft and shaft for the playoffs last year he's driven it as accurately as he has since 2000.

> > He's 54th in accuracy. He was 54th in 2000 and never better since . With the exception of Mexico he's also hitting driver more often than he has in ages.

> >

>

>

 

Won’t he balance that out some on approach? He’s 16 total approach and 8th 175-200. If he putts and keeps the tee ball in bounds he’s in contention.

[bscinstnct]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> I gave you a good “factual” insight previously when explaining about the accuracy / relevancy of various stats to each other. I also researched and provided a poignant fact regarding Molinari’s API win with him being ranked #1 in SG-Tee, and then Tiger being ranked #72 this season SG-Tee. Perhaps you glazed over these?

>

> Things aren’t always black & white either, sometimes they’re nuanced and require a mix of words and facts with some glue to bind them, some call that a brief story. For example looking at seasonal stats when looking at a single event only reveals so much. At Augusta the majority of winners have been better ballstrikers than putters (That’s another fact). You have to work back from the hole to score. Iron play has been proven to be the biggest key at Augusta (another fact) and thankfully this is one of Tiger’s strengths, but, as AN has become a very long course, that means more drivers for Tiger (his biggest weakness) and although there’s minimal rough, there are trees, bushes, areas you can’t hit the ball off the tee into. If Tiger starts becoming wayward off the tee with his driver (not unreasonable given his known weaknesses and recent tendencies), then Tiger could be in trouble if he can’t hit his driver relatively long and straight.

>

> Lots of facts and lots of words, with some glue, just for you. With love.

>

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> > >

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > > >

> > > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

> >

> > and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

> >

> > i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

>

>

 

Phil sucks at driving accuracy and has 3 green jackets.

 

In 2010, he was 188th in driving accuracy yet...

 

 

 

[MilkyButterCuts]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> I gave you a good “factual” insight previously when explaining about the accuracy / relevancy of various stats to each other. I also researched and provided a poignant fact regarding Molinari’s API win with him being ranked #1 in SG-Tee, and then Tiger being ranked #72 this season SG-Tee. Perhaps you glazed over these?

>

> Things aren’t always black & white either, sometimes they’re nuanced and require a mix of words and facts with some glue to bind them, some call that a brief story. For example looking at seasonal stats when looking at a single event only reveals so much. At Augusta the majority of winners have been better ballstrikers than putters (That’s another fact). You have to work back from the hole to score. Iron play has been proven to be the biggest key at Augusta (another fact) and thankfully this is one of Tiger’s strengths, but, as AN has become a very long course, that means more drivers for Tiger (his biggest weakness) and although there’s minimal rough, there are trees, bushes, areas you can’t hit the ball off the tee into. If Tiger starts becoming wayward off the tee with his driver (not unreasonable given his known weaknesses and recent tendencies), then Tiger could be in trouble if he can’t hit his driver relatively long and straight.

>

> Lots of facts and lots of words, with some glue, just for you. With love.

>

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> > >

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > > >

> > > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

> >

> > and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

> >

> > i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

>

>

 

It seems in many of these threads @"Cool Runnings", you argue simply for the sake of arguing.

[Birdie Mac]

 

> >

> >

>

> It seems in **most** of these threads @"Cool Runnings", you argue simply for the sake of arguing.

Fixed. You're welcome.

 

 

[Cool Runnings]

It’s the exact opposite. Often I post a point to the board. A few of the usual suspects challenge and / or argue against that point. I then respond with facts and rationale to counter their initial rebuttals, and the back & forth continues. That’s how it usually goes. Ps: And this isn't an argument either, it's a simple clarification of the facts from my perspective.

 

> @MilkyButterCuts said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > I gave you a good “factual” insight previously when explaining about the accuracy / relevancy of various stats to each other. I also researched and provided a poignant fact regarding Molinari’s API win with him being ranked #1 in SG-Tee, and then Tiger being ranked #72 this season SG-Tee. Perhaps you glazed over these?

> >

> > Things aren’t always black & white either, sometimes they’re nuanced and require a mix of words and facts with some glue to bind them, some call that a brief story. For example looking at seasonal stats when looking at a single event only reveals so much. At Augusta the majority of winners have been better ballstrikers than putters (That’s another fact). You have to work back from the hole to score. Iron play has been proven to be the biggest key at Augusta (another fact) and thankfully this is one of Tiger’s strengths, but, as AN has become a very long course, that means more drivers for Tiger (his biggest weakness) and although there’s minimal rough, there are trees, bushes, areas you can’t hit the ball off the tee into. If Tiger starts becoming wayward off the tee with his driver (not unreasonable given his known weaknesses and recent tendencies), then Tiger could be in trouble if he can’t hit his driver relatively long and straight.

> >

> > Lots of facts and lots of words, with some glue, just for you. With love.

> >

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> > > >

> > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > > > >

> > > > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

> > >

> > > and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

> > >

> > > i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

> >

> >

>

> It seems in many of these threads @"Cool Runnings", you argue simply for the sake of arguing.

 

 

[Cool Runnings]

This is what amazes me… you’ve just cherry picked Phil’s driving accuracy (which is the least accurate/relevant performance metric compared to SG-Tee) from his 2010 performance over a SEASON to explain his performance in a SINGLE Masters event in 2010. That’s not how it works or how a credible argument is built. I just explained/proved that Molinari in this 2019 season his SG-Tee is poor ranking #101, but in his API 2019 win he ranked #1 in SG-Tee. So as you can see, using seasonal stats to explain away a single event performance or vice-versa means very little. What would be far more relevant would be for you to provide us / me with his specific SG-Tee performance in that 2010 Masters event…

 

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > I gave you a good “factual” insight previously when explaining about the accuracy / relevancy of various stats to each other. I also researched and provided a poignant fact regarding Molinari’s API win with him being ranked #1 in SG-Tee, and then Tiger being ranked #72 this season SG-Tee. Perhaps you glazed over these?

> >

> > Things aren’t always black & white either, sometimes they’re nuanced and require a mix of words and facts with some glue to bind them, some call that a brief story. For example looking at seasonal stats when looking at a single event only reveals so much. At Augusta the majority of winners have been better ballstrikers than putters (That’s another fact). You have to work back from the hole to score. Iron play has been proven to be the biggest key at Augusta (another fact) and thankfully this is one of Tiger’s strengths, but, as AN has become a very long course, that means more drivers for Tiger (his biggest weakness) and although there’s minimal rough, there are trees, bushes, areas you can’t hit the ball off the tee into. If Tiger starts becoming wayward off the tee with his driver (not unreasonable given his known weaknesses and recent tendencies), then Tiger could be in trouble if he can’t hit his driver relatively long and straight.

> >

> > Lots of facts and lots of words, with some glue, just for you. With love.

> >

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> > > >

> > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > > > >

> > > > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

> > >

> > > and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

> > >

> > > i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

> >

> >

>

> Phil sucks at driving accuracy and has 3 green jackets.

>

> In 2010, he was 188th in driving accuracy yet...

>

>

>

>

 

 

[Always_rough]

Just wanna throw my prediction for the winner out there, Brooks Koepka by 4 strokes at -16.

[bscinstnct]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> This is what amazes me… you’ve just cherry picked Phil’s driving accuracy (which is the least accurate/relevant performance metric compared to SG-Tee) from his 2010 performance over a SEASON to explain his performance in a SINGLE Masters event in 2010. That’s not how it works or how a credible argument is built. I just explained/proved that Molinari in this 2019 season his SG-Tee is poor ranking #101, but in his API 2019 win he ranked #1 in SG-Tee. So as you can see, using seasonal stats to explain away a single event performance or vice-versa means very little. What would be far more relevant would be for you to provide us / me with his specific SG-Tee performance in that 2010 Masters event…

>

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > I gave you a good “factual” insight previously when explaining about the accuracy / relevancy of various stats to each other. I also researched and provided a poignant fact regarding Molinari’s API win with him being ranked #1 in SG-Tee, and then Tiger being ranked #72 this season SG-Tee. Perhaps you glazed over these?

> > >

> > > Things aren’t always black & white either, sometimes they’re nuanced and require a mix of words and facts with some glue to bind them, some call that a brief story. For example looking at seasonal stats when looking at a single event only reveals so much. At Augusta the majority of winners have been better ballstrikers than putters (That’s another fact). You have to work back from the hole to score. Iron play has been proven to be the biggest key at Augusta (another fact) and thankfully this is one of Tiger’s strengths, but, as AN has become a very long course, that means more drivers for Tiger (his biggest weakness) and although there’s minimal rough, there are trees, bushes, areas you can’t hit the ball off the tee into. If Tiger starts becoming wayward off the tee with his driver (not unreasonable given his known weaknesses and recent tendencies), then Tiger could be in trouble if he can’t hit his driver relatively long and straight.

> > >

> > > Lots of facts and lots of words, with some glue, just for you. With love.

> > >

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > > > > >

> > > > > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

> > > >

> > > > and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

> > > >

> > > > i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Phil sucks at driving accuracy and has 3 green jackets.

> >

> > In 2010, he was 188th in driving accuracy yet...

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

 

Youre using TWs seasonal stats, no?

[BigRedRV]

Just got back from Augusta National. Started raining about an hour ago. Prior to that it was beautiful all day. They kicked us off the course about 315 pm. Tiger teed off at 8 am with JT and Freddie. Spieth and Mickelson didn't practice on the course. Saw most everyone else. Wonderful day and couldn't be happier for my first Master's experience.

[Shilgy]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

>

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > >

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> >

> > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

>

>

Exactly the stat I pointed out which you scoffed at. Tiger is better than Molinari in SG off the tee

[Shilgy]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> I gave you a good “factual” insight previously when explaining about the accuracy / relevancy of various stats to each other. I also researched and provided a poignant fact regarding Molinari’s API win with him being ranked #1 in SG-Tee, and then Tiger being ranked #72 this season SG-Tee. Perhaps you glazed over these?

>

> Things aren’t always black & white either, sometimes they’re nuanced and require a mix of words and facts with some glue to bind them, some call that a brief story. For example looking at seasonal stats when looking at a single event only reveals so much. At Augusta the majority of winners have been better ballstrikers than putters (That’s another fact). You have to work back from the hole to score. Iron play has been proven to be the biggest key at Augusta (another fact) and thankfully this is one of Tiger’s strengths, but, as AN has become a very long course, that means more drivers for Tiger (his biggest weakness) and although there’s minimal rough, there are trees, bushes, areas you can’t hit the ball off the tee into. If Tiger starts becoming wayward off the tee with his driver (not unreasonable given his known weaknesses and recent tendencies), then Tiger could be in trouble if he can’t hit his driver relatively long and straight.

>

> Lots of facts and lots of words, with some glue, just for you. With love.

>

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> > >

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > > >

> > > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

> >

> > and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

> >

> > i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

>

>

 

So..in your opinion the FACT that Molinari is rated below Tiger in SG off the tee does not matter because Molinari had one good week off the tee? Do I have that correct? Golly, I sure hope so. Although it seems to me that if Molinari had one great week off the tee and yet is still past #100 in the rankings he really must not be very good the other weeks.

[Cool Runnings]

I originally posted a simple and fair statement that I hope Tiger was going to “split” his time on the driving range to “work on his driving if he’s going to compete”.

 

I then replied to Shilgy’s rebuttal when he said… “Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.”… I replied Molinari doesn’t need reminding as he’s already won a “big event” this year.

 

Shilgy replied saying… “We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year?…”

 

I then replied… “Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year…”

 

As you can see, all relevant info/facts for the conversation at hand.

 

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > This is what amazes me… you’ve just cherry picked Phil’s driving accuracy (which is the least accurate/relevant performance metric compared to SG-Tee) from his 2010 performance over a SEASON to explain his performance in a SINGLE Masters event in 2010. That’s not how it works or how a credible argument is built. I just explained/proved that Molinari in this 2019 season his SG-Tee is poor ranking #101, but in his API 2019 win he ranked #1 in SG-Tee. So as you can see, using seasonal stats to explain away a single event performance or vice-versa means very little. What would be far more relevant would be for you to provide us / me with his specific SG-Tee performance in that 2010 Masters event…

> >

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > I gave you a good “factual” insight previously when explaining about the accuracy / relevancy of various stats to each other. I also researched and provided a poignant fact regarding Molinari’s API win with him being ranked #1 in SG-Tee, and then Tiger being ranked #72 this season SG-Tee. Perhaps you glazed over these?

> > > >

> > > > Things aren’t always black & white either, sometimes they’re nuanced and require a mix of words and facts with some glue to bind them, some call that a brief story. For example looking at seasonal stats when looking at a single event only reveals so much. At Augusta the majority of winners have been better ballstrikers than putters (That’s another fact). You have to work back from the hole to score. Iron play has been proven to be the biggest key at Augusta (another fact) and thankfully this is one of Tiger’s strengths, but, as AN has become a very long course, that means more drivers for Tiger (his biggest weakness) and although there’s minimal rough, there are trees, bushes, areas you can’t hit the ball off the tee into. If Tiger starts becoming wayward off the tee with his driver (not unreasonable given his known weaknesses and recent tendencies), then Tiger could be in trouble if he can’t hit his driver relatively long and straight.

> > > >

> > > > Lots of facts and lots of words, with some glue, just for you. With love.

> > > >

> > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

> > > > >

> > > > > and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

> > > > >

> > > > > i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Phil sucks at driving accuracy and has 3 green jackets.

> > >

> > > In 2010, he was 188th in driving accuracy yet...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

> Youre using TWs seasonal stats, no?

 

 

[Cool Runnings]

Statistically over the season so far, yes… but not better in a single event when it’s really needed, and Molinari ranked #1 SG-Tee during his API win.

Also both these players seasonal SG-Tee stats are poor compared to many of the best players in the world.

 

> @Shilgy said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> >

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > >

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > >

> > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> >

> >

> Exactly the stat I pointed out which you scoffed at. Tiger is better than Molinari in SG off the tee

 

 

[Cool Runnings]

Shilgy:

“Although it seems to me that if Molinari had one great week off the tee and yet is still past #100 in the rankings he really must not be very good the other weeks.”

 

That is true. And wins matter far more than seasonal statistics, even you’d agree with that.

 

> @Shilgy said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > I gave you a good “factual” insight previously when explaining about the accuracy / relevancy of various stats to each other. I also researched and provided a poignant fact regarding Molinari’s API win with him being ranked #1 in SG-Tee, and then Tiger being ranked #72 this season SG-Tee. Perhaps you glazed over these?

> >

> > Things aren’t always black & white either, sometimes they’re nuanced and require a mix of words and facts with some glue to bind them, some call that a brief story. For example looking at seasonal stats when looking at a single event only reveals so much. At Augusta the majority of winners have been better ballstrikers than putters (That’s another fact). You have to work back from the hole to score. Iron play has been proven to be the biggest key at Augusta (another fact) and thankfully this is one of Tiger’s strengths, but, as AN has become a very long course, that means more drivers for Tiger (his biggest weakness) and although there’s minimal rough, there are trees, bushes, areas you can’t hit the ball off the tee into. If Tiger starts becoming wayward off the tee with his driver (not unreasonable given his known weaknesses and recent tendencies), then Tiger could be in trouble if he can’t hit his driver relatively long and straight.

> >

> > Lots of facts and lots of words, with some glue, just for you. With love.

> >

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> > > >

> > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > > > >

> > > > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

> > >

> > > and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

> > >

> > > i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

> >

> >

>

> So..in your opinion the FACT that Molinari is rated below Tiger in SG off the tee does not matter because Molinari had one good week off the tee? Do I have that correct? Golly, I sure hope so. Although it seems to me that if Molinari had one great week off the tee and yet is still past #100 in the rankings he really must not be very good the other weeks.

 

 

[Shilgy]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> I originally posted a simple and fair statement that I hope Tiger was going to “split” his time on the driving range to “work on his driving if he’s going to compete”.

>

> I then replied to Shilgy’s rebuttal when he said… “Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.”… I replied Molinari doesn’t need reminding as he’s already won a “big event” this year.

>

> Shilgy replied saying… “We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year?…”

>

> I then replied… “Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year…”

>

> As you can see, all relevant info/facts for the conversation at hand.

>

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > This is what amazes me… you’ve just cherry picked Phil’s driving accuracy (which is the least accurate/relevant performance metric compared to SG-Tee) from his 2010 performance over a SEASON to explain his performance in a SINGLE Masters event in 2010. That’s not how it works or how a credible argument is built. I just explained/proved that Molinari in this 2019 season his SG-Tee is poor ranking #101, but in his API 2019 win he ranked #1 in SG-Tee. So as you can see, using seasonal stats to explain away a single event performance or vice-versa means very little. What would be far more relevant would be for you to provide us / me with his specific SG-Tee performance in that 2010 Masters event…

> > >

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > I gave you a good “factual” insight previously when explaining about the accuracy / relevancy of various stats to each other. I also researched and provided a poignant fact regarding Molinari’s API win with him being ranked #1 in SG-Tee, and then Tiger being ranked #72 this season SG-Tee. Perhaps you glazed over these?

> > > > >

> > > > > Things aren’t always black & white either, sometimes they’re nuanced and require a mix of words and facts with some glue to bind them, some call that a brief story. For example looking at seasonal stats when looking at a single event only reveals so much. At Augusta the majority of winners have been better ballstrikers than putters (That’s another fact). You have to work back from the hole to score. Iron play has been proven to be the biggest key at Augusta (another fact) and thankfully this is one of Tiger’s strengths, but, as AN has become a very long course, that means more drivers for Tiger (his biggest weakness) and although there’s minimal rough, there are trees, bushes, areas you can’t hit the ball off the tee into. If Tiger starts becoming wayward off the tee with his driver (not unreasonable given his known weaknesses and recent tendencies), then Tiger could be in trouble if he can’t hit his driver relatively long and straight.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lots of facts and lots of words, with some glue, just for you. With love.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Phil sucks at driving accuracy and has 3 green jackets.

> > > >

> > > > In 2010, he was 188th in driving accuracy yet...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Youre using TWs seasonal stats, no?

>

>

 

Seems odd to me that if Molinari has it in the bag when needed he wouldn't use it more often. But hey, that's just me.

[Cool Runnings]

Something we can agree on! That’s golf. :smiley:

 

> @Shilgy said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > I originally posted a simple and fair statement that I hope Tiger was going to “split” his time on the driving range to “work on his driving if he’s going to compete”.

> >

> > I then replied to Shilgy’s rebuttal when he said… “Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.”… I replied Molinari doesn’t need reminding as he’s already won a “big event” this year.

> >

> > Shilgy replied saying… “We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year?…”

> >

> > I then replied… “Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year…”

> >

> > As you can see, all relevant info/facts for the conversation at hand.

> >

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > This is what amazes me… you’ve just cherry picked Phil’s driving accuracy (which is the least accurate/relevant performance metric compared to SG-Tee) from his 2010 performance over a SEASON to explain his performance in a SINGLE Masters event in 2010. That’s not how it works or how a credible argument is built. I just explained/proved that Molinari in this 2019 season his SG-Tee is poor ranking #101, but in his API 2019 win he ranked #1 in SG-Tee. So as you can see, using seasonal stats to explain away a single event performance or vice-versa means very little. What would be far more relevant would be for you to provide us / me with his specific SG-Tee performance in that 2010 Masters event…

> > > >

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > I gave you a good “factual” insight previously when explaining about the accuracy / relevancy of various stats to each other. I also researched and provided a poignant fact regarding Molinari’s API win with him being ranked #1 in SG-Tee, and then Tiger being ranked #72 this season SG-Tee. Perhaps you glazed over these?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Things aren’t always black & white either, sometimes they’re nuanced and require a mix of words and facts with some glue to bind them, some call that a brief story. For example looking at seasonal stats when looking at a single event only reveals so much. At Augusta the majority of winners have been better ballstrikers than putters (That’s another fact). You have to work back from the hole to score. Iron play has been proven to be the biggest key at Augusta (another fact) and thankfully this is one of Tiger’s strengths, but, as AN has become a very long course, that means more drivers for Tiger (his biggest weakness) and although there’s minimal rough, there are trees, bushes, areas you can’t hit the ball off the tee into. If Tiger starts becoming wayward off the tee with his driver (not unreasonable given his known weaknesses and recent tendencies), then Tiger could be in trouble if he can’t hit his driver relatively long and straight.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lots of facts and lots of words, with some glue, just for you. With love.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > It’s not about “winning” in a conversation, it’s about being open & objective to the facts and reality being discussed. The stats you cite offer minimal real world value and insight compared to Strokes Gained Off-The-Tee which is the #1 performance metric in golf and far more insightful, relevant and accurate to player performance levels to self and their competing fields.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Molinari’s seasonal Off the Tee stats this year don’t read too well, but Molinari at API ranked #1 Off the Tee, so he’s proved this year he’s got it in the bag when needed. Tiger’s Tee game I’m less confident in and he hasn’t been close to winning this year. The times when Tiger has hit it well, better hitters have hit it better and putted better. That’s his big challenge Off the Tee today when compared to some of these monsters out there now.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Molinari doesn’t need any reminding as he’s already won a big event this year, as for Spieth, he doesn’t need more practice, he needs a shrink ;)

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good to see from Tiger, but I hope he’s splitting his time on the driving range too as he needs a lot of work on his driving if he’s going to compete.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Be sure to tell Molinari and Spieth the same about driving. Woods is better than both this season.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Just a simple reply to your "fix driving" post on Woods. We all think Molinari is driving iot great but Woods is better strokes gained off the tee. Molinari doesn't need to worry about his driving because he won once this year? That's enough? I guess that is part of the reason the are who they are and we are on keyboards.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > there's no way to 'win' with you with regards to tiger. there hasn't been a tournament on his schedule this season he was or has ever contented at except the Players and the Farmers -- and even then, he had a T20 at the farmers, and T30 at the players. he's 54th in driving accuracy and only 44th in distance -- yet he's 4th...yes, FOURTH in greens in reg. IMO his driving isn't the issue...it's the putter. he did just have a T5 at the match play as well -- only to be let down by said putter against Bjerregard

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > keep in mind i said IMO, there's no need to cite pages of anecdote saying i'm wrong.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > so, hit me with some. actually give facts to your arguments. SG tee-to-green he's 8th. SG off the tee he's 72nd.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > and here ya go...OVERALL strokes gained...he's 6th.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i'm sorry for having a tone when talking to you -- but honestly, between the threads you've had involvement in - your observations are seemingly derived from obscure or handpicked data points. enlightened discussion comes from BOTH sides providing valid points -- otherwise it is dictation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Phil sucks at driving accuracy and has 3 green jackets.

> > > > >

> > > > > In 2010, he was 188th in driving accuracy yet...

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Youre using TWs seasonal stats, no?

> >

> >

>

> Seems odd to me that if Molinari has it in the bag when needed he wouldn't use it more often. But hey, that's just me.

 

 

[imakaveli]

> @jmvargas said:

> been watching replays ...something always seems to happen to Jordan Spieth at the Masters--flashes of brilliance and disastrous holes..

> wouldn't be surprised if something similar happens again this week...

>

> .....with the right breaks he could have had at least 3 Masters since 2015!!

 

And with a couple of bad breaks he could have had 0 majors... ;)