Do I open my mouth and complain to the GM about slow play?

[caniac6]

I'm having a hard time understanding why a grown man needs to come on a message board to ask if he should or shouldn't do something.

[Under2hours]

I was curious as to protocol and whether I should say something and maybe how others would handle a situation or maybe if it did backfire.

 

Again the POP is 4:15 and is closely monitored. So because 28 (actually probably closer to 22-24 since not all foursomes as I mentioned many times) don't play to the POP that is okay?

The GM as stated discussed with the 4-5 gambling groups on Saturdays that their 4:30 pace was backing up the course. But I guess that is different.

Now I get it.

[caniac6]

> @Under2hours said:

> I was curious as to protocol and whether I should say something and maybe how others would handle a situation or maybe if it did backfire.

>

> Again the POP is 4:15 and is closely monitored. So because 28 (actually probably closer to 22-24 since not all foursomes as I mentioned many times) don't play to the POP that is okay? Now I get it.

 

I don't know if you are married or not, but sometimes being right is not as important as picking your arguments. Now you know not to schedule a time behind the seniors. It sounds like this is a regular Thursday event, and as is the case in many large groups, there are probably some slower players, and they are probably in the last groups. These being seniors, and probably, long time members, the pro probably cuts them some slack on POP. I would not complain in this situation. I am a fast player, and I arrange my schedule so I don't interfere with the seniors or Ladies Day. I have been a member of my club for 10 years, and they have had long standing tee times a lot longer than that. Notice I said I don't interfere. They have never bothered me, and I have too much respect for them to bother them on their day. Another thing I do is that I never cut it close. If I have somewhere to be, I either leave myself plenty of time, or I don't play. I'm sure your GM has heard complaints before, and he will probably listen politely, and forget about it as soon as you walk out the door. There is no reason for him to stir up the hornet's nest. Apologize to your guest. Explain to them that it is usually not like this, and have them back at a better time. Again, it's not worth making an issue over.

[2bGood]

> @Petethreeput said:

> Think about this, and it’s all moot since you did say something, but...

> You joined bc you like the POP.

> These folks you are complaining about set that pace years ago and now it’s considered the norm.

> The course is in good shape bc these guys have been paying dues/ assessments for years.

> This course is still in existence bc these guys were the leaders and kept it financially healthy.

> Now these men are older and physically unable to keep pace. They know it, but they also know golf is a lifetime game and they have friends with whom to play.

>

> Bottom line: your position on this is about as selfish as I have seen. I truly hope however many years from now and you’re in their position someone blames you and runs to GM.

 

I really like this post -I think this is often forgotten I clubs. The long time members created something you want to join. You need to give them some credit for that.

 

We have several guys in the very late 80's an even 90's still playing and walking. They know when to tee off to be out of the way of the faster players and only a total d**K would complain about their pace. I was Club Capitan a few year back and I found out our club did have a few total D**ks. Of course when they complained to me I laughed and total them to get a clue as these guys had been members longer than the complainer had been alive. A GM does not get to do this. I have to say that one nice thing about clubs being governed by members, as the GM can not be quite as frank as the Club Capitan can be when silly complaints come forward.

[Under2hours]

> @2bGood said:

> > @Petethreeput said:

> > Think about this, and it’s all moot since you did say something, but...

> > You joined bc you like the POP.

> > These folks you are complaining about set that pace years ago and now it’s considered the norm.

> > The course is in good shape bc these guys have been paying dues/ assessments for years.

> > This course is still in existence bc these guys were the leaders and kept it financially healthy.

> > Now these men are older and physically unable to keep pace. They know it, but they also know golf is a lifetime game and they have friends with whom to play.

> >

> > Bottom line: your position on this is about as selfish as I have seen. I truly hope however many years from now and you’re in their position someone blames you and runs to GM.

>

> I really like this post -I think this is often forgotten I clubs. The long time members created something you want to join. You need to give them some credit for that.

>

> We have several guys in the very late 80's an even 90's still playing and walking. They know when to tee off to be out of the way of the faster players and only a total d**K would complain about their pace. I was Club Capitan a few year back and I found out our club did have a few total D**ks. Of course when they complained to me I laughed and total them to get a clue as these guys had been members longer than the complainer had been alive. A GM does not get to do this. I have to say that one nice thing about clubs being governed by members, as the GM can not be quite as frank as the Club Capitan can be when silly complaints come forward.

 

And to which I said to the GM...... Give them a 2 hour birth (not 1:30)..... And yes if we teed off at 11:00, would have still caught them, but had 30 more minutes of enjoyment out of our round.

[CaseyC]

What did the GM say?

[Soloman1]

A single event is not a trend.

[2bGood]

> @Under2hours said:

> > @2bGood said:

> > > @Petethreeput said:

> > > Think about this, and it’s all moot since you did say something, but...

> > > You joined bc you like the POP.

> > > These folks you are complaining about set that pace years ago and now it’s considered the norm.

> > > The course is in good shape bc these guys have been paying dues/ assessments for years.

> > > This course is still in existence bc these guys were the leaders and kept it financially healthy.

> > > Now these men are older and physically unable to keep pace. They know it, but they also know golf is a lifetime game and they have friends with whom to play.

> > >

> > > Bottom line: your position on this is about as selfish as I have seen. I truly hope however many years from now and you’re in their position someone blames you and runs to GM.

> >

> > I really like this post -I think this is often forgotten I clubs. The long time members created something you want to join. You need to give them some credit for that.

> >

> > We have several guys in the very late 80's an even 90's still playing and walking. They know when to tee off to be out of the way of the faster players and only a total d**K would complain about their pace. I was Club Capitan a few year back and I found out our club did have a few total D**ks. Of course when they complained to me I laughed and total them to get a clue as these guys had been members longer than the complainer had been alive. A GM does not get to do this. I have to say that one nice thing about clubs being governed by members, as the GM can not be quite as frank as the Club Capitan can be when silly complaints come forward.

>

> And to which I said to the GM...... Give them a 2 hour birth (not 1:30)..... And yes if we teed off at 11:00, would have still caught them, but had 30 more minutes of enjoyment out of our round.

 

You may have gotten 30 more minutes of 'enjoyment', but 3 or 4 groups would not get a tee time. The trick is to find the balance if the tee sheet has pressure. I think the club came pretty close to the perfect balance given you finished under the courses pace par. If the course is busy I am sure people would not be all that happy with remove tee times so your group can play as fast as you like when you are already finishing under the course guidelines.

 

However if the course is not busy, sure why not leave bigger gaps.

 

[Under2hours]

> @2bGood said:

> > @Under2hours said:

> > > @2bGood said:

> > > > @Petethreeput said:

> > > > Think about this, and it’s all moot since you did say something, but...

> > > > You joined bc you like the POP.

> > > > These folks you are complaining about set that pace years ago and now it’s considered the norm.

> > > > The course is in good shape bc these guys have been paying dues/ assessments for years.

> > > > This course is still in existence bc these guys were the leaders and kept it financially healthy.

> > > > Now these men are older and physically unable to keep pace. They know it, but they also know golf is a lifetime game and they have friends with whom to play.

> > > >

> > > > Bottom line: your position on this is about as selfish as I have seen. I truly hope however many years from now and you’re in their position someone blames you and runs to GM.

> > >

> > > I really like this post -I think this is often forgotten I clubs. The long time members created something you want to join. You need to give them some credit for that.

> > >

> > > We have several guys in the very late 80's an even 90's still playing and walking. They know when to tee off to be out of the way of the faster players and only a total d**K would complain about their pace. I was Club Capitan a few year back and I found out our club did have a few total D**ks. Of course when they complained to me I laughed and total them to get a clue as these guys had been members longer than the complainer had been alive. A GM does not get to do this. I have to say that one nice thing about clubs being governed by members, as the GM can not be quite as frank as the Club Capitan can be when silly complaints come forward.

> >

> > And to which I said to the GM...... Give them a 2 hour birth (not 1:30)..... And yes if we teed off at 11:00, would have still caught them, but had 30 more minutes of enjoyment out of our round.

>

> You may have gotten 30 more minutes of 'enjoyment', but 3 or 4 groups would not get a tee time. The trick is to find the balance if the tee sheet has pressure. I think the club came pretty close to the perfect balance given you finished under the courses pace par. If the course is busy I am sure people would not be all that happy with remove tee times so your group can play as fast as you like when you are already finishing under the course guidelines.

>

> However if the course is not busy, sure why not leave bigger gaps.

>

 

And again , those 3 groups (we have 9 minute spreads) if they play at what is really our courses POP, which is 4:00, they too would have been waiting from hole # 2 on..... Remember we were 5 minutes late on our 10:30 tee time & caught up to them on 2....

 

 

[2bGood]

> @Under2hours said:

> > @2bGood said:

> > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > @2bGood said:

> > > > > @Petethreeput said:

> > > > > Think about this, and it’s all moot since you did say something, but...

> > > > > You joined bc you like the POP.

> > > > > These folks you are complaining about set that pace years ago and now it’s considered the norm.

> > > > > The course is in good shape bc these guys have been paying dues/ assessments for years.

> > > > > This course is still in existence bc these guys were the leaders and kept it financially healthy.

> > > > > Now these men are older and physically unable to keep pace. They know it, but they also know golf is a lifetime game and they have friends with whom to play.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bottom line: your position on this is about as selfish as I have seen. I truly hope however many years from now and you’re in their position someone blames you and runs to GM.

> > > >

> > > > I really like this post -I think this is often forgotten I clubs. The long time members created something you want to join. You need to give them some credit for that.

> > > >

> > > > We have several guys in the very late 80's an even 90's still playing and walking. They know when to tee off to be out of the way of the faster players and only a total d**K would complain about their pace. I was Club Capitan a few year back and I found out our club did have a few total D**ks. Of course when they complained to me I laughed and total them to get a clue as these guys had been members longer than the complainer had been alive. A GM does not get to do this. I have to say that one nice thing about clubs being governed by members, as the GM can not be quite as frank as the Club Capitan can be when silly complaints come forward.

> > >

> > > And to which I said to the GM...... Give them a 2 hour birth (not 1:30)..... And yes if we teed off at 11:00, would have still caught them, but had 30 more minutes of enjoyment out of our round.

> >

> > You may have gotten 30 more minutes of 'enjoyment', but 3 or 4 groups would not get a tee time. The trick is to find the balance if the tee sheet has pressure. I think the club came pretty close to the perfect balance given you finished under the courses pace par. If the course is busy I am sure people would not be all that happy with remove tee times so your group can play as fast as you like when you are already finishing under the course guidelines.

> >

> > However if the course is not busy, sure why not leave bigger gaps.

> >

>

> And again , those 3 groups (we have 9 minute spreads) if they play at what is really our courses POP, which is 4:00, they too would have been waiting from hole # 2 on..... Remember we were 5 minutes late on our 10:30 tee time & caught up to them on 2....

>

>

Sure they could be waiting. But if your typical pace is 4:00 and on this unusually slow day it is only 15 minutes longer and still under you par pace it does not sound like too big of deal. If the tee sheet is not busy - by all mean create a bigger gap.

 

But if the tee sheet is busy creating that 30min gap means 12 guys would not get to a tee time that day.

 

If I wanted to golf on a particular day and the option I was given was play 15min slower or don't get a tee time, I would take 15min slower.

[raynorfan1]

So, sort of related to this thread...

 

Played 18 with the usual group this morning. Good pace. Finished in something like 3:40. Had a quick threesome on us the whole time.

 

The head pro found us in the bar afterwards and gave us a talking to because we finished with an open hole in front of us. He was right.

[Dpavs]

> So, sort of related to this thread...

>

> Played 18 with the usual group this morning. Good pace. Finished in something like 3:40. Had a quick threesome on us the whole time.

>

> The head pro found us in the bar afterwards and gave us a talking to because we finished with an open hole in front of us. He was right.

 

Why? Assuming your group had four players, did he feel that you should have let the group behind you play through or were you expected to play at an abnormally quickened pace to close the gap even though you were on approximately a 12.22 minute pop? One I can understand the other, not so much.

[raynorfan1]

> @Dpavs said:

> > So, sort of related to this thread...

> >

> > Played 18 with the usual group this morning. Good pace. Finished in something like 3:40. Had a quick threesome on us the whole time.

> >

> > The head pro found us in the bar afterwards and gave us a talking to because we finished with an open hole in front of us. He was right.

>

> Why? Assuming your group had four players, did he feel that you should have let the group behind you play through or were you expected to play at an abnormally quickened pace to close the gap even though you were on approximately a 12.22 minute pop? One I can understand the other, not so much.

 

The rule at our club is that you maintain pace with the group in front of you, no excuses. If a full hole opens, you let the group behind you through.

 

We thought a little bit about it (with both the group in front and behind - all eleven of us were at the bar), and we got a little bit bogged down on 15 looking for two balls that had gone into the fescue. We should have let the guys behind us through on 16 (a par 3) but were just oblivious to the situation.

 

The pro treated it well; it was a 'no harm / no foul' situation that nobody was upset about, but it was a good reminder for us to be more conscious of the situation. It was actually obvious when we walked off 15 green that we were a full hole behind - we chatted with the group ahead who were hitting their second shots on 17.

 

Also modestly relevant to this discussion...the group ahead that we lost touch with were "super seniors" and they left us in the dust (no carts for any of us).

[caniac6]

> @raynorfan1 said:

> > @Dpavs said:

> > > So, sort of related to this thread...

> > >

> > > Played 18 with the usual group this morning. Good pace. Finished in something like 3:40. Had a quick threesome on us the whole time.

> > >

> > > The head pro found us in the bar afterwards and gave us a talking to because we finished with an open hole in front of us. He was right.

> >

> > Why? Assuming your group had four players, did he feel that you should have let the group behind you play through or were you expected to play at an abnormally quickened pace to close the gap even though you were on approximately a 12.22 minute pop? One I can understand the other, not so much.

>

> The rule at our club is that you maintain pace with the group in front of you, no excuses. If a full hole opens, you let the group behind you through.

>

> We thought a little bit about it (with both the group in front and behind - all eleven of us were at the bar), and we got a little bit bogged down on 15 looking for two balls that had gone into the fescue. We should have let the guys behind us through on 16 (a par 3) but were just oblivious to the situation.

>

> The pro treated it well; it was a 'no harm / no foul' situation that nobody was upset about, but it was a good reminder for us to be more conscious of the situation. It was actually obvious when we walked off 15 green that we were a full hole behind - we chatted with the group ahead who were hitting their second shots on 17.

>

> Also modestly relevant to this discussion...the group ahead that we lost touch with were "super seniors" and they left us in the dust (no carts for any of us).

 

I'm a bit suprised the pro said something with the problem happening so late in the round and your pace up to that point.

[North Butte]

> @raynorfan1 said:

> We thought a little bit about it (with both the group in front and behind - all eleven of us were at the bar), and we got a little bit bogged down on 15 looking for two balls that had gone into the fescue. We should have let the guys behind us through on 16 (a par 3) but were just oblivious to the situation.

>

> The pro treated it well; it was a 'no harm / no foul' situation that nobody was upset about, but it was a good reminder for us to be more conscious of the situation. It was actually obvious when we walked off 15 green that we were a full hole behind - we chatted with the group ahead who were hitting their second shots on 17.

>

> Also modestly relevant to this discussion...the group ahead that we lost touch with were "super seniors" and they left us in the dust (no carts for any of us).

 

Quite a few years ago now I played at a rather posh English golf club (on the Open rota) accompanied by the club's professional. When we got to the 18th tee there was a twosome of members just hitting their second shots from the fairway. They had cut in front of us, playing only a little "loop" of holes near the clubhouse.

 

The pro pulled out a 5-iron and punched a shot that landed maybe 20-30 yards behind them. One of the members sort of gave a back handed wave of acknowledgement without turning around to look. I thought that was kind of strange and asked the pro what was up.

 

He said, "They know they're not supposed to cut in like that and I'm just letting them know I saw them. Saves tracking them down after the round and talking to them about it".

 

My point being, older clubs have all sorts of what I guess you'd call "understandings" concerning the way members behave on the course. Guess Raynorfan's club is one of those, even if it seems a bit odd to outsiders.

[BermBuster]

One thing I learned from this thread. There are three kinds of people in the world; Those who can count, and those who can't.

[howellhandmade]

I guess I’m a fast player; never played with anyone faster than me, anyway. But sometimes you’ve just got to roll with it. Keep it light, tell some jokes.

[xxio]

It seems we have old men enjoying the camraderie of fellow seniors on the course, knowing their days on the fairways are probably counted.

 

We also have someone, who is acting like a grumpy old man, because the old farts were inconveniencing his guests.

 

What I would have done was to make my guest more comfortable. Buy them a couple of beers, discuss the history of the club/course on a couple of tee mounds, maybe even mention "when I get to be as old as these guys, I hope to be able to get out on the course with friends once a week too.".

[Under2hours]

> @xxio said:

> It seems we have old men enjoying the camraderie of fellow seniors on the course, knowing their days on the fairways are probably counted.

>

> We also have someone, who is acting like a grumpy old man, because the old farts were inconveniencing his guests.

>

> What I would have done was to make my guest more comfortable. Buy them a couple of beers, discuss the history of the club/course on a couple of tee mounds, maybe even mention "when I get to be as old as these guys, I hope to be able to get out on the course with friends once a week too.".

 

I get it.... Old age trumps all and they are allowed to play at their POP..... BTW we have flags on carts for those who do need assistance and are allowed to drive them right to the green.

 

In my conversation I only suggested a bigger buffer so that those behind them wouldn't too be playing a 5 hour round. I did not tell the GM to marshal them as per their POP.

 

Again if I left out the word seniors, and not given context and just said we were stuck behind a group that goes out & reserves 7 tee times and plays @ a 5:00 pace then I had a valid concern?

[CaseyC]

> @Under2hours said:

 

> In my conversation I only suggested a bigger buffer so that those behind them wouldn't too be playing a 5 hour round. I did not tell the GM to marshal them as per their POP.

>

What was the response?

 

[Under2hours]

> @CaseyC said:

> > @Under2hours said:

>

> > In my conversation I only suggested a bigger buffer so that those behind them wouldn't too be playing a 5 hour round. I did not tell the GM to marshal them as per their POP.

> >

> What was the response?

>

 

The expected..... "Thanks for the input, we will monitor it"...... Better then.... "Don't bring guests & tee off behind the seniors as we don't monitor their POP and they don't need to adhere to it"...... :D

[caniac6]

> @BermBuster said:

> One thing I learned from this thread. There are three kinds of people in the world; Those who can count, and those who can't.

 

Thank you for your input, Mr. Blutarski.

[xxio]

> @Under2hours said:

> > @xxio said:

> > It seems we have old men enjoying the camraderie of fellow seniors on the course, knowing their days on the fairways are probably counted.

> >

> > We also have someone, who is acting like a grumpy old man, because the old farts were inconveniencing his guests.

> >

> > What I would have done was to make my guest more comfortable. Buy them a couple of beers, discuss the history of the club/course on a couple of tee mounds, maybe even mention "when I get to be as old as these guys, I hope to be able to get out on the course with friends once a week too.".

>

> I get it.... Old age trumps all and they are allowed to play at their POP..... BTW we have flags on carts for those who do need assistance and are allowed to drive them right to the green.

>

> In my conversation I only suggested a bigger buffer so that those behind them wouldn't too be playing a 5 hour round. I did not tell the GM to marshal them as per their POP.

>

> Again if I left out the word seniors, and not given context and just said we were stuck behind a group that goes out & reserves 7 tee times and plays @ a 5:00 pace then I had a valid concern?

 

That is why there are things like senior preferred parking, senior discounts, etc. Even senior's days in golf courses. It is an acknowledgment that when you get old things change.

 

There is a group of 5 seniors (all around 70-75) that tees off to play 9 holes every Tues, Thu, Sat at my club. Even with carts up to greenside they do play slow. There are complaints but every year or so one of them dies or gets an injury that ends their golf career so noone complains after that. Then another oldie will replace that guy.

 

What people do is either tee off ahead of them or ask permission to start on the other 9.

 

I'm 47. Still quite far from joining that group but I do hope I am still active enough in 25 years to be able to unintentionally slow down play.

 

Yes I am saying give them a break because they are old.