Do I open my mouth and complain to the GM about slow play?

[SNIPERBBB]

Guests should be peeved with you for scheduling them behind a league you knew was on the course. If you didn't warn them ahead of time, it's doubly on you.

[Under2hours]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> Guests should be peeved with you for scheduling them behind a league you knew was on the course. If you didn't warn them ahead of time, it's doubly on you.

 

First time playing behind them and I know we are very good about policing POP (4:15). I also looked to see how many were on the tee sheet for the group (7 tee off times & spaced). So my expectations were they play at 4:15-4:30. If we did catch them (and granted I expect leisurely at our course to be 4:00 max) and that we'd probably catch them at some point and then they'd be off after 14.

 

One last chance doing math. POP is 4:15 or 255 minutes, which equates to 14.16666/hole. Thus in 90 minutes 90/14.1666 = 6.35 Holes completed before we teed off.

 

They thus should have been pretty much done #3 before we even teed off @ 10:35 (seeing that from hole 15 through 2 they are playing 3 par 3's a par 5 & two par 4's).

 

Let's say we are on a 10 minute/hole pace or 3:00 hour round and are catching up to them 5 minutes/hole (15 minutes for them & 10 for us). If it took us 90 minutes to play the front 9, we would have been done at #10 at noon and they played 4-9 in 15 x 6 = 90 minutes, and that should have been where it slowed down, not on #2 (where we were already waiting).

 

I probably may mention it in passing if I do & make no big deal about it.

[SNIPERBBB]

You can't enforce pop during leagues unless you have someone there to put people on the clock. Casual play you can get people to pickup or skip holes to keep things moving.

[2bGood]

> @Under2hours said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @Under2hours said:

> > > The POP for their 18 was 5:00-5:15.

> >

> > You keep saying "their" but what about YOUR pace of place for YOUR 18 holes?

>

> 2-13 we were on a 5:15 pace. **That is all that matters!!!!!**

 

Not really. If I am the GM, the first thing I ask was how fast was your round. When you answer it was under the the expected pace, you are likely going to get the reactions you get in this thread.

 

You may also get another response too. Men's afternoons at our club are typically longer than our pace regulations. Even worse for pace when there is a shotgun. However they are the most popular tee times of the week with a wait list. So if you complain about the pace on Men's day, the answer is - don't play mens day as they are 144 members that are very happy with it.

 

Like I said in my first post, go in with an open mind and have a conversation. Get involved with the members that are part of making these decisions. Clubs are a balancing act. You try to make several hundred people happy. If you are the only one unhappy - they won't care. If you and a 100 other members are unhappy, they will care.

[2bGood]

> @SNIPERBBB said:

> Guests should be peeved with you for scheduling them behind a league you knew was on the course. If you didn't warn them ahead of time, it's doubly on you.

 

 

I would agree if he was an experienced member at that club, but he is new at the club, it takes a bit of time to understand all the group dynamics and unwritten rules. This could be a good learning experience for him.

[Under2hours]

> @2bGood said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > Guests should be peeved with you for scheduling them behind a league you knew was on the course. If you didn't warn them ahead of time, it's doubly on you.

>

>

> I would agree if he was an experienced member at that club, but he is new at the club, it takes a bit of time to understand all the group dynamics and unwritten rules. This could be a good learning experience for him.

 

Fourth year and know most times to stay away from. Bring guests midday when business colleagues, and this was the first time I booked following the TMS (as they are called) and was due to one guest having a 4:00pm conference call.

[Hawkeye77]

> @Under2hours said:

> > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > Guests should be peeved with you for scheduling them behind a league you knew was on the course. If you didn't warn them ahead of time, it's doubly on you.

>

> First time playing behind them and I know we are very good about policing POP (4:15). I also looked to see how many were on the tee sheet for the group (7 tee off times & spaced). So my expectations were they play at 4:15-4:30. If we did catch them (and granted I expect leisurely at our course to be 4:00 max) and that we'd probably catch them at some point and then they'd be off after 14.

>

> One last chance doing math. POP is 4:15 or 255 minutes, which equates to 14.16666/hole. Thus in 90 minutes 90/14.1666 = 6.35 Holes completed before we teed off.

>

> They thus should have been pretty much done #3 before we even teed off @ 10:35 (seeing that from hole 15 through 2 they are playing 3 par 3's a par 5 & two par 4's).

>

> Let's say we are on a 10 minute/hole pace or 3:00 hour round and are catching up to them 5 minutes/hole (15 minutes for them & 10 for us). If it took us 90 minutes to play the front 9, we would have been done at #10 at noon and they played 4-9 in 15 x 6 = 90 minutes, and that should have been where it slowed down, not on #2 (where we were already waiting).

>

> I probably may mention it in passing if I do & make no big deal about it.

 

It just gets sillier.

 

You said 5 hour pace, including on the first 5 holes on the back nine - that's a simple calculation of 16.67 minutes per hole and 83.35 minutes for those holes.

 

You said you played the entire back 9 in a blistering 1:15 - impossible by your representations. There was no 3 hour front nine and no 1:15 back nine.

 

Again, exaggerated and tortured backtracking and now creative math to make your story add up.

 

[nsxguy]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @Under2hours said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > The POP for their 18 was 5:00-5:15.

> > >

> > > You keep saying "their" but what about YOUR pace of place for YOUR 18 holes?

> >

> > 2-13 we were on a 5:15 pace. That is all that matters!!!!!

>

> **So you're absolutely not going to answer the question are you**?

>

> In that case, my answer to the original post is no. You should not complain to the GM or anyone else. It is mostly likely whatever you say to the GM will reflect more badly on yourself than you realize. If you're going to remain a member there, being "that guy" (as Dave puts it) is not in your long term interest.

>

> I have a couple of couple of hot button issues at my own club. I might even grumble a bit to some of my friends there once in a while but they're both situations where the things I don't like are things that were going on before I was a member, are probably going to continue long after I'm gone and I'm not going to get 350 other people to change just to accommodate my wishes. So I keep my mouth shut and deal with it. I'd still rather be a member there than another other club within 50 miles.

 

That's a rhetorical question, right ? LOL

 

So now the seniors were playing "shotgun" off of 15. So at least that makes a bit of a difference as that would put them a little bit behind schedule by the time Unda teed off but,,,,,,,,,,, as you can see he clearly doesn't want to answer your question,,,,,,,,, I'm betting everyone can guess why,

 

Unda's got a penchant for telling half a story (and then sounding a bit "peeved" when somebody asks for clarification). He's got more "moves" than Michael Jackson ever had. You say "the sky is blue", his response will be "But it's Thursday". How many more times will we see this from him ? Personally, I'm encouraged by seeing the word "apologize" from him, in ANY context. Not sure but that might be a "first". LOL

 

As Hawk(?) mentioned Unda loved his old club because he was first off all the time and could race around the track and be having his breakfast by 9 A.M. Wonder why he moved on (apologies if he already explained). Now he's got a new club and,,,,,,,,,,

 

I think he should put the seniors and POP on full blast,,,,,,,,, and see what happens,,,,,,,,, maybe his old club will start looking better ?

 

 

[2bGood]

> @Under2hours said:

> > @2bGood said:

> > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > Guests should be peeved with you for scheduling them behind a league you knew was on the course. If you didn't warn them ahead of time, it's doubly on you.

> >

> >

> > I would agree if he was an experienced member at that club, but he is new at the club, it takes a bit of time to understand all the group dynamics and unwritten rules. This could be a good learning experience for him.

>

> Fourth year and know most times to stay away from. Bring guests midday when business colleagues, and this was the first time I booked following the TMS (as they are called) and was due to one guest having a 4:00pm conference call.

 

Sorry. My mistake. Then I agree you should own part of this as by now you should know that the seniors shotgun would be a slow (slower) round.

[Under2hours]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @Under2hours said:

> > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > Guests should be peeved with you for scheduling them behind a league you knew was on the course. If you didn't warn them ahead of time, it's doubly on you.

> >

> > First time playing behind them and I know we are very good about policing POP (4:15). I also looked to see how many were on the tee sheet for the group (7 tee off times & spaced). So my expectations were they play at 4:15-4:30. If we did catch them (and granted I expect leisurely at our course to be 4:00 max) and that we'd probably catch them at some point and then they'd be off after 14.

> >

> > One last chance doing math. POP is 4:15 or 255 minutes, which equates to 14.16666/hole. Thus in 90 minutes 90/14.1666 = 6.35 Holes completed before we teed off.

> >

> > They thus should have been pretty much done #3 before we even teed off @ 10:35 (seeing that from hole 15 through 2 they are playing 3 par 3's a par 5 & two par 4's).

> >

> > Let's say we are on a 10 minute/hole pace or 3:00 hour round and are catching up to them 5 minutes/hole (15 minutes for them & 10 for us). If it took us 90 minutes to play the front 9, we would have been done at #10 at noon and they played 4-9 in 15 x 6 = 90 minutes, and that should have been where it slowed down, not on #2 (where we were already waiting).

> >

> > I probably may mention it in passing if I do & make no big deal about it.

>

> It just gets sillier.

>

> You said 5 hour pace, including on the first 5 holes on the back nine - that's a simple calculation of 16.67 minutes per hole and 83.35 minutes for those holes.

>

> You said you played the entire back 9 in a blistering 1:15 - impossible by your representations. There was no 3 hour front nine and no 1:15 back nine.

>

> Again, exaggerated and tortured backtracking and now creative math to make your story add up.

>

 

No that was an example of playing to a 4:15 POP that would **_not be fun_**, it was not my round. Yes played to POP, but not enjoyable.

[Under2hours]

> @2bGood said:

> > @Under2hours said:

> > > @2bGood said:

> > > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > > Guests should be peeved with you for scheduling them behind a league you knew was on the course. If you didn't warn them ahead of time, it's doubly on you.

> > >

> > >

> > > I would agree if he was an experienced member at that club, but he is new at the club, it takes a bit of time to understand all the group dynamics and unwritten rules. This could be a good learning experience for him.

> >

> > Fourth year and know most times to stay away from. Bring guests midday when business colleagues, and this was the first time I booked following the TMS (as they are called) and was due to one guest having a 4:00pm conference call.

>

> Sorry. My mistake. Then I agree you should own part of this as by now you should know that the seniors shotgun would be a slow (slower) round.

 

I had as said **_NO IDEA HOW SLOW THEY ARE_**.

 

Now I know and will adjust accordingly.

[Under2hours]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > The POP for their 18 was 5:00-5:15.

> > > >

> > > > You keep saying "their" but what about YOUR pace of place for YOUR 18 holes?

> > >

> > > 2-13 we were on a 5:15 pace. That is all that matters!!!!!

> >

> > **So you're absolutely not going to answer the question are you**?

> >

> > In that case, my answer to the original post is no. You should not complain to the GM or anyone else. It is mostly likely whatever you say to the GM will reflect more badly on yourself than you realize. If you're going to remain a member there, being "that guy" (as Dave puts it) is not in your long term interest.

> >

> > I have a couple of couple of hot button issues at my own club. I might even grumble a bit to some of my friends there once in a while but they're both situations where the things I don't like are things that were going on before I was a member, are probably going to continue long after I'm gone and I'm not going to get 350 other people to change just to accommodate my wishes. So I keep my mouth shut and deal with it. I'd still rather be a member there than another other club within 50 miles.

>

> That's a rhetorical question, right ? LOL

>

> So now the seniors were playing "shotgun" off of 15. So at least that makes a bit of a difference as that would put them a little bit behind schedule by the time Unda teed off but,,,,,,,,,,, as you can see he clearly doesn't want to answer your question,,,,,,,,, I'm betting everyone can guess why,

>

> Unda's got a penchant for telling half a story (and then sounding a bit "peeved" when somebody asks for clarification). He's got more "moves" than Michael Jackson ever had. You say "the sky is blue", his response will be "But it's Thursday". How many more times will we see this from him ? Personally, I'm encouraged by seeing the word "apologize" from him, in ANY context. Not sure but that might be a "first". LOL

>

> As Hawk(?) mentioned Unda loved his old club because he was first off all the time and could race around the track and be having his breakfast by 9 A.M. Wonder why he moved on (apologies if he already explained). Now he's got a new club and,,,,,,,,,,

>

> I think he should put the seniors and POP on full blast,,,,,,,,, and see what happens,,,,,,,,, maybe his old club will start looking better ?

>

>

 

Does it matter if shotgun or not? I explained they teed off at 15 and 7 groups involved. Regardless if shotgun or not (i.e. the last group teeing off 15 @ 9:00 am), where should the group be 1:30 later.

 

Again if I did not say seniors and asked with a POP of 4:15 on a course with minimal hazards that most agree is easily 4:00 or less, how many holes should they have played in 1:30, I hope all would say 7 minimum (and remember the first six holes in this case on a par 71 course included 3 par 3's,2 par 4's & a par 5).

 

Can I be any clearer?

 

 

[CaseyC]

The round in question was played on the 5th. Today is the 9th.

Have you contacted the GM? Are you planning on contacting him?

[ThinkingPlus]

> @CaseyC said:

> The round in question was played on the 5th. Today is the 9th.

> Have you contacted the GM? Are you planning on contacting him?

 

OP's PoP is very fast, but his PoC (Pace of Complain) not so much.

[Under2hours]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @CaseyC said:

> > The round in question was played on the 5th. Today is the 9th.

> > Have you contacted the GM? Are you planning on contacting him?

>

> OP's PoP is very fast, but his PoC (Pace of Complain) not so much.

 

Yes, because I want to ensure if I do it, done politely, respectfully and does not create an issue. It is why I asked here, however seems the response is more along the lines of "Don't malign the seniors & my fault for booking the time and expecting POP to meet the clubs posted POP".

 

Example we are maniacal about repairing ball marks and filling divots with fill (not placing the divot/grass back). We have plastic fill bottles on the first tee and another on the third & tenth (with boxes on other holes to refill the bottles). For those of us who carry we have smaller bottles and a holder to clip on your bag. Get caught once not filling divots or fixing ball marks a warning and twice you are suspended a week.

 

Three weeks ago I sprinted to the first hole and didn't get one (very seldom take divots and never do take a pelt), however there are none of the smaller ones & holders on three & ten. So yes I suggested to the GM to put some there as well for us who carry.

 

Did I do good in this case????? ;)

[nsxguy]

> @Under2hours said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > > The POP for their 18 was 5:00-5:15.

> > > > >

> > > > > You keep saying "their" but what about YOUR pace of place for YOUR 18 holes?

> > > >

> > > > 2-13 we were on a 5:15 pace. That is all that matters!!!!!

> > >

> > > **So you're absolutely not going to answer the question are you**?

> > >

> > > In that case, my answer to the original post is no. You should not complain to the GM or anyone else. It is mostly likely whatever you say to the GM will reflect more badly on yourself than you realize. If you're going to remain a member there, being "that guy" (as Dave puts it) is not in your long term interest.

> > >

> > > I have a couple of couple of hot button issues at my own club. I might even grumble a bit to some of my friends there once in a while but they're both situations where the things I don't like are things that were going on before I was a member, are probably going to continue long after I'm gone and I'm not going to get 350 other people to change just to accommodate my wishes. So I keep my mouth shut and deal with it. I'd still rather be a member there than another other club within 50 miles.

> >

> > That's a rhetorical question, right ? LOL

> >

> > So now the seniors were playing "shotgun" off of 15. So at least that makes a bit of a difference as that would put them a little bit behind schedule by the time Unda teed off but,,,,,,,,,,, as you can see he clearly doesn't want to answer your question,,,,,,,,, I'm betting everyone can guess why,

> >

> > Unda's got a penchant for telling half a story (and then sounding a bit "peeved" when somebody asks for clarification). He's got more "moves" than Michael Jackson ever had. You say "the sky is blue", his response will be "But it's Thursday". How many more times will we see this from him ? Personally, I'm encouraged by seeing the word "apologize" from him, in ANY context. Not sure but that might be a "first". LOL

> >

> > As Hawk(?) mentioned Unda loved his old club because he was first off all the time and could race around the track and be having his breakfast by 9 A.M. Wonder why he moved on (apologies if he already explained). Now he's got a new club and,,,,,,,,,,

> >

> > I think he should put the seniors and POP on full blast,,,,,,,,, and see what happens,,,,,,,,, maybe his old club will start looking better ?

> >

> >

>

> Does it matter if shotgun or not? I explained they teed off at 15 and 7 groups involved. Regardless if shotgun or not (i.e. the last group teeing off 15 @ 9:00 am), where should the group be 1:30 later.

>

> Again if I did not say seniors and asked with a POP of 4:15 on a course with minimal hazards that most agree is easily 4:00 or less, how many holes should they have played in 1:30, I hope all would say 7 minimum (and remember the first six holes in this case on a par 71 course included 3 par 3's,2 par 4's & a par 5).

>

> Can I be any clearer?

>

>

 

I think you're right - about the shotgun not mattering.

 

Whether it was a shotgun or not,,,,,,,,,,, whether the actual tee time of the last senior group was 9:42 OR whether they hit at 9:10 (shotgun) and had to wait themselves on multiple groups in front of them, the last group, the one right in front of you, would have STILL cleared your 1st fairway in roughly the same 53 minutes I first calculated, i.e. a 3:30 POP.

 

So I guess I'll stick with my 3:30 POP for the seniors, at least when you first hit. Guess they were on almost a 6 hour POP for the holes while they were in front of you.

 

So how long did it take your group to play again ? LMAO

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

> @Under2hours said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @CaseyC said:

> > > The round in question was played on the 5th. Today is the 9th.

> > > Have you contacted the GM? Are you planning on contacting him?

> >

> > OP's PoP is very fast, but his PoC (Pace of Complain) not so much.

>

> Yes, because I want to ensure if I do it, done politely, respectfully and does not create an issue. It is why I asked here, however seems the response is more along the lines of "Don't malign the seniors & my fault for booking the time and expecting POP to meet the clubs posted POP".

>

> Example we are maniacal about repairing ball marks and filling divots with fill (not placing the divot/grass back). We have plastic fill bottles on the first tee and another on the third & tenth (with boxes on other holes to refill the bottles). For those of us who carry we have smaller bottles and a holder to clip on your bag. Get caught once not filling divots or fixing ball marks a warning and twice you are suspended a week.

>

> Three weeks ago I sprinted to the first hole and didn't get one (very seldom take divots and never do take a pelt), however there are none of the smaller ones & holders on three & ten. So yes I suggested to the GM to put some there as well for us who carry.

>

> Did I do good in this case????? ;)

 

I was just busting your chops a bit with the PoC comment since you take great pride in your PoP. I cannot really comment on your interaction(s) with the GM. In fact I never made a recommendation either way with your PoP issue. Too many factors to include in that decision with possible negative (and perhaps positive) future repercussions.

[CaseyC]

> @Under2hours said:

 

>

> Yes, because I want to ensure if I do it, done politely, respectfully and does not create an issue. It is why I asked here, however seems the response is more along the lines of "Don't malign the seniors & my fault for booking the time and expecting POP to meet the clubs posted POP".

>

 

Are you going to bring it up with the GM or not?

 

[Under2hours]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @Under2hours said:

> > > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > > @CaseyC said:

> > > > The round in question was played on the 5th. Today is the 9th.

> > > > Have you contacted the GM? Are you planning on contacting him?

> > >

> > > OP's PoP is very fast, but his PoC (Pace of Complain) not so much.

> >

> > Yes, because I want to ensure if I do it, done politely, respectfully and does not create an issue. It is why I asked here, however seems the response is more along the lines of "Don't malign the seniors & my fault for booking the time and expecting POP to meet the clubs posted POP".

> >

> > Example we are maniacal about repairing ball marks and filling divots with fill (not placing the divot/grass back). We have plastic fill bottles on the first tee and another on the third & tenth (with boxes on other holes to refill the bottles). For those of us who carry we have smaller bottles and a holder to clip on your bag. Get caught once not filling divots or fixing ball marks a warning and twice you are suspended a week.

> >

> > Three weeks ago I sprinted to the first hole and didn't get one (very seldom take divots and never do take a pelt), however there are none of the smaller ones & holders on three & ten. So yes I suggested to the GM to put some there as well for us who carry.

> >

> > Did I do good in this case????? ;)

>

> I was just busting your chops a bit with the PoC comment since you take great pride in your PoP. I cannot really comment on your interaction(s) with the GM. In fact I never made a recommendation either way with your PoP issue. Too many factors to include in that decision with possible negative (and perhaps positive) future repercussions.

 

I know you were...... And not a bad one!!!!!

[Under2hours]

> @CaseyC said:

> > @Under2hours said:

>

> >

> > Yes, because I want to ensure if I do it, done politely, respectfully and does not create an issue. It is why I asked here, however seems the response is more along the lines of "Don't malign the seniors & my fault for booking the time and expecting POP to meet the clubs posted POP".

> >

>

> Are you going to bring it up with the GM or not?

>

 

Will talk to them, but not in writing and maybe suggest giving them an extra 30 minutes.......

[Under2hours]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Under2hours said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > > > The POP for their 18 was 5:00-5:15.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You keep saying "their" but what about YOUR pace of place for YOUR 18 holes?

> > > > >

> > > > > 2-13 we were on a 5:15 pace. That is all that matters!!!!!

> > > >

> > > > **So you're absolutely not going to answer the question are you**?

> > > >

> > > > In that case, my answer to the original post is no. You should not complain to the GM or anyone else. It is mostly likely whatever you say to the GM will reflect more badly on yourself than you realize. If you're going to remain a member there, being "that guy" (as Dave puts it) is not in your long term interest.

> > > >

> > > > I have a couple of couple of hot button issues at my own club. I might even grumble a bit to some of my friends there once in a while but they're both situations where the things I don't like are things that were going on before I was a member, are probably going to continue long after I'm gone and I'm not going to get 350 other people to change just to accommodate my wishes. So I keep my mouth shut and deal with it. I'd still rather be a member there than another other club within 50 miles.

> > >

> > > That's a rhetorical question, right ? LOL

> > >

> > > So now the seniors were playing "shotgun" off of 15. So at least that makes a bit of a difference as that would put them a little bit behind schedule by the time Unda teed off but,,,,,,,,,,, as you can see he clearly doesn't want to answer your question,,,,,,,,, I'm betting everyone can guess why,

> > >

> > > Unda's got a penchant for telling half a story (and then sounding a bit "peeved" when somebody asks for clarification). He's got more "moves" than Michael Jackson ever had. You say "the sky is blue", his response will be "But it's Thursday". How many more times will we see this from him ? Personally, I'm encouraged by seeing the word "apologize" from him, in ANY context. Not sure but that might be a "first". LOL

> > >

> > > As Hawk(?) mentioned Unda loved his old club because he was first off all the time and could race around the track and be having his breakfast by 9 A.M. Wonder why he moved on (apologies if he already explained). Now he's got a new club and,,,,,,,,,,

> > >

> > > I think he should put the seniors and POP on full blast,,,,,,,,, and see what happens,,,,,,,,, maybe his old club will start looking better ?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Does it matter if shotgun or not? I explained they teed off at 15 and 7 groups involved. Regardless if shotgun or not (i.e. the last group teeing off 15 @ 9:00 am), where should the group be 1:30 later.

> >

> > Again if I did not say seniors and asked with a POP of 4:15 on a course with minimal hazards that most agree is easily 4:00 or less, how many holes should they have played in 1:30, I hope all would say 7 minimum (and remember the first six holes in this case on a par 71 course included 3 par 3's,2 par 4's & a par 5).

> >

> > Can I be any clearer?

> >

> >

>

> I think you're right - about the shotgun not mattering.

>

> Whether it was a shotgun or not,,,,,,,,,,, whether the actual tee time of the last senior group was 9:42 OR whether they hit at 9:10 (shotgun) and had to wait themselves on multiple groups in front of them, the last group, the one right in front of you, would have STILL cleared your 1st fairway in roughly the same 53 minutes I first calculated, i.e. a 3:30 POP.

>

> So I guess I'll stick with my 3:30 POP for the seniors, at least when you first hit. Guess they were on almost a 6 hour POP for the holes while they were in front of you.

>

> So how long did it take your group to play again ? LMAO

>

>

 

LMAO? Please answer this.... Do you not get it? Let's make it real simple....... If a 4:30 POP how long should it take to finish 6 holes on a par 72 course (i.e. the first 24 shots to par)....... I would suggest 1:30. Now do you agree? Our POP is below 4:30, so I'm actually drawing it out for you. Thus the 9:30 group should have played 6 holes before we teed off at 10:30 (as they teed off @ 9:00). I will then go further as they were playing 3 par threes in the first 6 holes, 2 par fours & a par 5, and should based our POP have been done #3, before we teed off #1. In fact they had not even teed off on 2 (a par three when teed off 1) and we were waiting on #2.

 

How quick we finished doesn't matter, what matters is that from 2-13 we waited on every hole to hit.

[nsxguy]

> @Under2hours said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > > > > The POP for their 18 was 5:00-5:15.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You keep saying "their" but what about YOUR pace of place for YOUR 18 holes?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 2-13 we were on a 5:15 pace. That is all that matters!!!!!

> > > > >

> > > > > **So you're absolutely not going to answer the question are you**?

> > > > >

> > > > > In that case, my answer to the original post is no. You should not complain to the GM or anyone else. It is mostly likely whatever you say to the GM will reflect more badly on yourself than you realize. If you're going to remain a member there, being "that guy" (as Dave puts it) is not in your long term interest.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have a couple of couple of hot button issues at my own club. I might even grumble a bit to some of my friends there once in a while but they're both situations where the things I don't like are things that were going on before I was a member, are probably going to continue long after I'm gone and I'm not going to get 350 other people to change just to accommodate my wishes. So I keep my mouth shut and deal with it. I'd still rather be a member there than another other club within 50 miles.

> > > >

> > > > That's a rhetorical question, right ? LOL

> > > >

> > > > So now the seniors were playing "shotgun" off of 15. So at least that makes a bit of a difference as that would put them a little bit behind schedule by the time Unda teed off but,,,,,,,,,,, as you can see he clearly doesn't want to answer your question,,,,,,,,, I'm betting everyone can guess why,

> > > >

> > > > Unda's got a penchant for telling half a story (and then sounding a bit "peeved" when somebody asks for clarification). He's got more "moves" than Michael Jackson ever had. You say "the sky is blue", his response will be "But it's Thursday". How many more times will we see this from him ? Personally, I'm encouraged by seeing the word "apologize" from him, in ANY context. Not sure but that might be a "first". LOL

> > > >

> > > > As Hawk(?) mentioned Unda loved his old club because he was first off all the time and could race around the track and be having his breakfast by 9 A.M. Wonder why he moved on (apologies if he already explained). Now he's got a new club and,,,,,,,,,,

> > > >

> > > > I think he should put the seniors and POP on full blast,,,,,,,,, and see what happens,,,,,,,,, maybe his old club will start looking better ?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Does it matter if shotgun or not? I explained they teed off at 15 and 7 groups involved. Regardless if shotgun or not (i.e. the last group teeing off 15 @ 9:00 am), where should the group be 1:30 later.

> > >

> > > Again if I did not say seniors and asked with a POP of 4:15 on a course with minimal hazards that most agree is easily 4:00 or less, how many holes should they have played in 1:30, I hope all would say 7 minimum (and remember the first six holes in this case on a par 71 course included 3 par 3's,2 par 4's & a par 5).

> > >

> > > Can I be any clearer?

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I think you're right - about the shotgun not mattering.

> >

> > Whether it was a shotgun or not,,,,,,,,,,, whether the actual tee time of the last senior group was 9:42 OR whether they hit at 9:10 (shotgun) and had to wait themselves on multiple groups in front of them, the last group, the one right in front of you, would have STILL cleared your 1st fairway in roughly the same 53 minutes I first calculated, i.e. a 3:30 POP.

> >

> > So I guess I'll stick with my 3:30 POP for the seniors, at least when you first hit. Guess they were on almost a 6 hour POP for the holes while they were in front of you.

> >

> > So how long did it take your group to play again ? LMAO

> >

> >

>

> LMAO? Please answer this.... Do you not get it? Let's make it real simple....... If a 4:30 POP how long should it take to finish 6 holes on a par 72 course (i.e. the first 24 shots to par)....... I would suggest 1:30. Now do you agree? Our POP is below 4:30, so I'm actually drawing it out for you. Thus the 9:30 group should have played 6 holes before we teed off at 10:30 (as they teed off @ 9:00). I will then go further as they were playing 3 par threes in the first 6 holes, 2 par fours & a par 5, and should based our POP have been done #3, before we teed off #1. In fact they had not even teed off on 2 (a par three when teed off 1) and we were waiting on #2.

>

> How quick we finished doesn't matter, what matters is that from 2-13 we waited on every hole to hit.

 

How quickly you finished doesn't matter to YOU because it'd most likely pull your whole argument right down on your head. When you complain to management I guarantee they'll ask you that same question. You gonna tell 'em it doesn't matter ? LMAO

 

Firstly, the "9:30" group, as I mentioned earlier, is closer to 9:45 (7th group off of 15) and THAT is at only 7 minutes per group - shorter than average separation of tee times. At 8 minutes apart, with 6 groups in front of them, they tee off closer to 9:50. YOU are assuming 5 minutes between groups (the "9:30 group"). Ridiculous. Can't happen. Unless maybe everybody played like you of course.

 

5 completed holes, @ 15 minutes per hole (4:30 POP) puts them on the 2nd tee at approximately 11:05. You teed off at 10:35, presumably finished 1 around 10:50. Since they were "due" on the 2nd tee by 11:05 and were there when you got there, approx 10:50 they apparently played their first 5 holes more quickly than your (projected) 4:30 POP.

 

Secondly, using your numbers, that "9:30" group, as you want to call them, at your 4:30 POP, finishing 6 holes in 1.5 hours has them walking off the 2nd green, not the 3rd.

 

So, net-net, you have them teeing off much earlier than they most likely did - hence the major part of our difference(s).

 

Anyway, you got your numbers and I got realistic ones. Neither one of us matters though. Take you complaint(s) to management and see what they say.

 

Have a nice evening.

 

 

[Under2hours]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Under2hours said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > > > > > The POP for their 18 was 5:00-5:15.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You keep saying "their" but what about YOUR pace of place for YOUR 18 holes?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 2-13 we were on a 5:15 pace. That is all that matters!!!!!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **So you're absolutely not going to answer the question are you**?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In that case, my answer to the original post is no. You should not complain to the GM or anyone else. It is mostly likely whatever you say to the GM will reflect more badly on yourself than you realize. If you're going to remain a member there, being "that guy" (as Dave puts it) is not in your long term interest.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have a couple of couple of hot button issues at my own club. I might even grumble a bit to some of my friends there once in a while but they're both situations where the things I don't like are things that were going on before I was a member, are probably going to continue long after I'm gone and I'm not going to get 350 other people to change just to accommodate my wishes. So I keep my mouth shut and deal with it. I'd still rather be a member there than another other club within 50 miles.

> > > > >

> > > > > That's a rhetorical question, right ? LOL

> > > > >

> > > > > So now the seniors were playing "shotgun" off of 15. So at least that makes a bit of a difference as that would put them a little bit behind schedule by the time Unda teed off but,,,,,,,,,,, as you can see he clearly doesn't want to answer your question,,,,,,,,, I'm betting everyone can guess why,

> > > > >

> > > > > Unda's got a penchant for telling half a story (and then sounding a bit "peeved" when somebody asks for clarification). He's got more "moves" than Michael Jackson ever had. You say "the sky is blue", his response will be "But it's Thursday". How many more times will we see this from him ? Personally, I'm encouraged by seeing the word "apologize" from him, in ANY context. Not sure but that might be a "first". LOL

> > > > >

> > > > > As Hawk(?) mentioned Unda loved his old club because he was first off all the time and could race around the track and be having his breakfast by 9 A.M. Wonder why he moved on (apologies if he already explained). Now he's got a new club and,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > >

> > > > > I think he should put the seniors and POP on full blast,,,,,,,,, and see what happens,,,,,,,,, maybe his old club will start looking better ?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Does it matter if shotgun or not? I explained they teed off at 15 and 7 groups involved. Regardless if shotgun or not (i.e. the last group teeing off 15 @ 9:00 am), where should the group be 1:30 later.

> > > >

> > > > Again if I did not say seniors and asked with a POP of 4:15 on a course with minimal hazards that most agree is easily 4:00 or less, how many holes should they have played in 1:30, I hope all would say 7 minimum (and remember the first six holes in this case on a par 71 course included 3 par 3's,2 par 4's & a par 5).

> > > >

> > > > Can I be any clearer?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I think you're right - about the shotgun not mattering.

> > >

> > > Whether it was a shotgun or not,,,,,,,,,,, whether the actual tee time of the last senior group was 9:42 OR whether they hit at 9:10 (shotgun) and had to wait themselves on multiple groups in front of them, the last group, the one right in front of you, would have STILL cleared your 1st fairway in roughly the same 53 minutes I first calculated, i.e. a 3:30 POP.

> > >

> > > So I guess I'll stick with my 3:30 POP for the seniors, at least when you first hit. Guess they were on almost a 6 hour POP for the holes while they were in front of you.

> > >

> > > So how long did it take your group to play again ? LMAO

> > >

> > >

> >

> > LMAO? Please answer this.... Do you not get it? Let's make it real simple....... If a 4:30 POP how long should it take to finish 6 holes on a par 72 course (i.e. the first 24 shots to par)....... I would suggest 1:30. Now do you agree? Our POP is below 4:30, so I'm actually drawing it out for you. Thus the 9:30 group should have played 6 holes before we teed off at 10:30 (as they teed off @ 9:00). I will then go further as they were playing 3 par threes in the first 6 holes, 2 par fours & a par 5, and should based our POP have been done #3, before we teed off #1. In fact they had not even teed off on 2 (a par three when teed off 1) and we were waiting on #2.

> >

> > How quick we finished doesn't matter, what matters is that from 2-13 we waited on every hole to hit.

>

> How quickly you finished doesn't matter to YOU because it'd most likely pull your whole argument right down on your head. When you complain to management I guarantee they'll ask you that same question. You gonna tell 'em it doesn't matter ? LMAO

>

> Firstly, the "9:30" group, as I mentioned earlier, is closer to 9:45 (7th group off of 15) and THAT is at only 7 minutes per group - shorter than average separation of tee times. At 8 minutes apart, with 6 groups in front of them, they tee off closer to 9:50. YOU are assuming 5 minutes between groups (the "9:30 group"). Ridiculous. Can't happen. Unless maybe everybody played like you of course.

>

> 5 completed holes, @ 15 minutes per hole (4:30 POP) puts them on the 2nd tee at approximately 11:05. You teed off at 10:35, presumably finished 1 around 10:50. Since they were "due" on the 2nd tee by 11:05 and were there when you got there, approx 10:50 they apparently played their first 5 holes more quickly than your (projected) 4:30 POP.

>

> Secondly, using your numbers, that "9:30" group, as you want to call them, at your 4:30 POP, finishing 6 holes in 1.5 hours has them walking off the 2nd green, not the 3rd.

>

> So, net-net, you have them teeing off much earlier than they most likely did - hence the major part of our difference(s).

>

> Anyway, you got your numbers and I got realistic ones. Neither one of us matters though. Take you complaint(s) to management and see what they say.

>

> Have a nice evening.

>

>

 

Again you are missing it (not unusual). 7 Groups in a shotgun means, there were 2 groups teeing off 18, 2 on 17, 2 on 16 & 1 on 15...... Not all were foursomes (there was at least a twosome & 2-3 threesomes....... The Group on 15 teed off at 9:30. Do you understand how a shotgun works? There were not 7 groups waiting to tee off 15, they were spread from 15 to 18.....

 

I used 4:30 as that is beyond our POP, and then noted that the 6 holes in question actually are 3 par 3's (we have 5, only one of the 4 par 5's and 2 of the 9 par 4's, so yes they should have been easily done 3 if playing to our 4:15 POP.

 

No wonder you are wrong on almost every debate you enter into...... Sheez!!!!!

[2bGood]

Under2hours say the situation was a bit different - the group in front of you started their round well, then faced a string of 9 or 10 bad holes - lost balls etc, forcing you to wait on those holes. Then they finished strong. The net result is you finished your round under the expected pace of play. Would you still have an issue? some holes you played fast and some holes you waited, but when the round was all over you played faster than the published pace expectation.

[Carl Spackler3]

Buy your friends a drink, tell them you’ll deal with it, and don’t go out after a known slow group

[caniac6]

After complaining, I imagine the GM will tell you not to bring guests at the same time the seniors play. He's not going to get 7 groups of seniors angry because one guy complains. Just take it as a lesson learned.

[larrybud]

> @Under2hours said:

> From Holes 2-14 playing behind them it was a 5 Hour POP. The fact we finished in time par means little. We played 14 very slow holes. Was not fun. As a member I could walk off, but had guests out and they weren't thrilled. And again was not all foursomes (threesome was ahead of us) and only 7 groups teeing off 15-18.

 

The fact that you finished in time par is the ONLY thing which matters.

 

[Hawkeye77]

I'm watching "Heaven's Gate" the other night, which is pushing the time for a pretty reasonable round of golf at about 3:40, and I may be the one person ever who likes the movie (my wife says it's Isabelle Huppert, I'm not sure it isn't Kristofferson, lol). It really slows down in parts to where it seems like it is on a 5 hour pace and I think I should turn it off because I'm going to miss out on what I planned to do after. But I keep watching and like magic, it's always done at the appointed time and overall I enjoy the experience and still get to do what I want after because if the channel guide says it's over at 10:40, it's over at 10:40, lol. OP should complain to the Association, I'm thinking.

 

 

[nsxguy]

> @Under2hours said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Under2hours said:

> > > > > > > > > > The POP for their 18 was 5:00-5:15.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You keep saying "their" but what about YOUR pace of place for YOUR 18 holes?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 2-13 we were on a 5:15 pace. That is all that matters!!!!!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **So you're absolutely not going to answer the question are you**?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In that case, my answer to the original post is no. You should not complain to the GM or anyone else. It is mostly likely whatever you say to the GM will reflect more badly on yourself than you realize. If you're going to remain a member there, being "that guy" (as Dave puts it) is not in your long term interest.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have a couple of couple of hot button issues at my own club. I might even grumble a bit to some of my friends there once in a while but they're both situations where the things I don't like are things that were going on before I was a member, are probably going to continue long after I'm gone and I'm not going to get 350 other people to change just to accommodate my wishes. So I keep my mouth shut and deal with it. I'd still rather be a member there than another other club within 50 miles.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's a rhetorical question, right ? LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So now the seniors were playing "shotgun" off of 15. So at least that makes a bit of a difference as that would put them a little bit behind schedule by the time Unda teed off but,,,,,,,,,,, as you can see he clearly doesn't want to answer your question,,,,,,,,, I'm betting everyone can guess why,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Unda's got a penchant for telling half a story (and then sounding a bit "peeved" when somebody asks for clarification). He's got more "moves" than Michael Jackson ever had. You say "the sky is blue", his response will be "But it's Thursday". How many more times will we see this from him ? Personally, I'm encouraged by seeing the word "apologize" from him, in ANY context. Not sure but that might be a "first". LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As Hawk(?) mentioned Unda loved his old club because he was first off all the time and could race around the track and be having his breakfast by 9 A.M. Wonder why he moved on (apologies if he already explained). Now he's got a new club and,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I think he should put the seniors and POP on full blast,,,,,,,,, and see what happens,,,,,,,,, maybe his old club will start looking better ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Does it matter if shotgun or not? I explained they teed off at 15 and 7 groups involved. Regardless if shotgun or not (i.e. the last group teeing off 15 @ 9:00 am), where should the group be 1:30 later.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again if I did not say seniors and asked with a POP of 4:15 on a course with minimal hazards that most agree is easily 4:00 or less, how many holes should they have played in 1:30, I hope all would say 7 minimum (and remember the first six holes in this case on a par 71 course included 3 par 3's,2 par 4's & a par 5).

> > > > >

> > > > > Can I be any clearer?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I think you're right - about the shotgun not mattering.

> > > >

> > > > Whether it was a shotgun or not,,,,,,,,,,, whether the actual tee time of the last senior group was 9:42 OR whether they hit at 9:10 (shotgun) and had to wait themselves on multiple groups in front of them, the last group, the one right in front of you, would have STILL cleared your 1st fairway in roughly the same 53 minutes I first calculated, i.e. a 3:30 POP.

> > > >

> > > > So I guess I'll stick with my 3:30 POP for the seniors, at least when you first hit. Guess they were on almost a 6 hour POP for the holes while they were in front of you.

> > > >

> > > > So how long did it take your group to play again ? LMAO

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > LMAO? Please answer this.... Do you not get it? Let's make it real simple....... If a 4:30 POP how long should it take to finish 6 holes on a par 72 course (i.e. the first 24 shots to par)....... I would suggest 1:30. Now do you agree? Our POP is below 4:30, so I'm actually drawing it out for you. Thus the 9:30 group should have played 6 holes before we teed off at 10:30 (as they teed off @ 9:00). I will then go further as they were playing 3 par threes in the first 6 holes, 2 par fours & a par 5, and should based our POP have been done #3, before we teed off #1. In fact they had not even teed off on 2 (a par three when teed off 1) and we were waiting on #2.

> > >

> > > How quick we finished doesn't matter, what matters is that from 2-13 we waited on every hole to hit.

> >

> > How quickly you finished doesn't matter to YOU because it'd most likely pull your whole argument right down on your head. When you complain to management I guarantee they'll ask you that same question. You gonna tell 'em it doesn't matter ? LMAO

> >

> > Firstly, the "9:30" group, as I mentioned earlier, is closer to 9:45 (7th group off of 15) and THAT is at only 7 minutes per group - shorter than average separation of tee times. At 8 minutes apart, with 6 groups in front of them, they tee off closer to 9:50. YOU are assuming 5 minutes between groups (the "9:30 group"). Ridiculous. Can't happen. Unless maybe everybody played like you of course.

> >

> > 5 completed holes, @ 15 minutes per hole (4:30 POP) puts them on the 2nd tee at approximately 11:05. You teed off at 10:35, presumably finished 1 around 10:50. Since they were "due" on the 2nd tee by 11:05 and were there when you got there, approx 10:50 they apparently played their first 5 holes more quickly than your (projected) 4:30 POP.

> >

> > Secondly, using your numbers, that "9:30" group, as you want to call them, at your 4:30 POP, finishing 6 holes in 1.5 hours has them walking off the 2nd green, not the 3rd.

> >

> > So, net-net, you have them teeing off much earlier than they most likely did - hence the major part of our difference(s).

> >

> > Anyway, you got your numbers and I got realistic ones. Neither one of us matters though. Take you complaint(s) to management and see what they say.

> >

> > Have a nice evening.

> >

> >

>

> Again you are missing it (not unusual). 7 Groups in a shotgun means, there were 2 groups teeing off 18, 2 on 17, 2 on 16 & 1 on 15...... Not all were foursomes (there was at least a twosome & 2-3 threesomes....... The Group on 15 teed off at 9:30. Do you understand how a shotgun works? There were not 7 groups waiting to tee off 15, they were spread from 15 to 18.....

>

> I used 4:30 as that is beyond our POP, and then noted that the 6 holes in question actually are 3 par 3's (we have 5, only one of the 4 par 5's and 2 of the 9 par 4's, so yes they should have been easily done 3 if playing to our 4:15 POP.

>

> No wonder you are wrong on almost every debate you enter into...... Sheez!!!!!

 

I'll type a little more s-l-o-w-l-y for you.

 

Whether it's a shotgun or NOT there are 6 groups IN FRONT of the LAST group and THAT is the group that you will be following.

 

Ergo the last/7th group will be clearing your fairway at the same time whether it's a shotgun or not.

 

OUCH !!! *I* am always wrong ? Now that's just good comedy !!! LMAO

 

Now how long did it take your group to play your round again ? LOL

[nsxguy]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> OP should complain to the Association, I'm thinking.

>

>

 

Agreed.

 

Then the next thing we'll see him posting is about how he wasn't crazy about his new club so he joined another one. LOL